User talk:Magister Mathematicae/randroide

I have been blocked (a month) in the Spanish Wikipedia for a page I maintain in the English Wikipedia
Yup. The issue is bizarre. The brief dialogue the Spanish administrator can be seen here (spanish).

This same admin (there, not here, here he´s not sysoped) menaced me months ago for my work in the English Wikipedia Menace in Spanish. The guy is so proud of his "feats" that he links from his own user page (Soy un censurador) a poster created ex-wiki protesting his actions.

The page that motivated my block is a page about the (IMHO) sorry state of the Spanish Wikipedia. The Spanish Wikipedia is the smallest Wikipedia of any major language.

This is the page that motivated my block. The page is given as the reason to block in the block log in the Spanish Wikipedia (14:41 5 feb 2007).

Please note that most of the contents of the page are a compilation of texts from other users "exiled" from the Spanish Wikipedia (with links to the pages of the authors). This page is not a one-man-mania, it is the quintessence of a perception shared by many editors who left (or were banned) the Spanish Wikipedia due to the sectarianism we perceive there.

I ask for comment from administrators here about the page. This is (AFAIK) totally unprecedented, as the the blocker himself confessed (Spanish).

This administrator, Petronas, is not the problem. The problem in the Spanish Wikipedia is estructural, and the only bureaucrat in the Spanish Wikipedia (Hispa) is, IMO, part of that problem. I could write a different diffs collection about him if I am asked.

My rationale:


 * If the page is Wikipedia kosher here, there´s no reason for my block there.
 * If the page is NOT Wikipedia kosher here, I ask (as the author) an speedy deletion and that´s it.

I removed the link to the page from my own userpage  because I received a tip saying me that the idea there is to block me forever in the Spanish Wikipedia.

BTW, just to show what kind of user I am: A non-exhaustive list of pages created by me there: Ayn Rand, Carrocería, ESV (Vehículo Experimental de Seguridad), Disidentes del SIDA, Carrocería (elementos de estilo), Objetivismo, Leonard Peikoff...

...if they tell you that I am a "troll", please ask them for diffs showing my (alleged) trollish activities.


 * IMO, the Spanish Wikipedia power structure is unable and unwilling to enforce Wikipedia Policies.
 * IMO direct supervision from the Wikipedia Committee abouth what is going on there is needed. A direct-to-the-Committee "Reclamations Department" in the Spanish Wikipedia would be a good start. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Randroide (talk • contribs) 10:41, 7 February 2007 (UTC).

A (not so) funny note: I could be banned there for writing this post here.

Randroide 10:16, 7 February 2007 (UTC)


 * I don't read Spanish, so I can only make the general remark that a page that is connected with your activities on the Spanish Wikipedia or the conduct of people there should be on the Spanish Wikipedia, not here. By putting it here, you use the English Wikipedia for free hosting unrelated to your English Wikipedia activities, which is not quite kosher. Anyway, if a page you create here (or on any other website, say, your blog) that is clearly connected to your Spanish Wikipedia account and causes trouble on the Spanish Wikipedia e.g. by personal attacks, you can be blocked from the Spanish Wikipedia if their blocking policy is similar to ours. If there are fundamental problems with the Spanish Wikipedia, you might want to complain at Meta or to the Wikimedia Foundation, not to the English Wikipedia. Kusma (討論) 10:43, 7 February 2007 (UTC)


 * The page is about why we (the exilees) are here, sir, and not in our "natural" Wikipedia, i.e., the Spanish Wikipedia. I do not know (please tell me) if that qualifies as "related with the English Wikipedia".


 * IMHO there are no personal attacks in the page. The page is "creating problems" because puts together (alleged) cases of abuse. The "problems" are for the (alleged) abusers, or course.


 * The blocking policy is, obviously, very different there and here: After 2800 edits I have zero blocks and zero administrative admonitions at en:Wiki, but three blocks at es:Wiki after 3700 edits there.


 * As another "exilee" from es:Wiki said:


 * I have been a wikipedian for far longer here that in that the Spanish wikipedia. Over there admins say I am a bad troll always looking for trouble and blocked several times -last one for life-..[]...Here, I have never had a serious problem. I am the constant in this case -the variable is the location: spanish versus english. So what would one think? I am the problem?


 * Randroide 12:11, 7 February 2007 (UTC)


 * If you have a problem with the power structure of the spanish wikipedia I can only suggest contacting someone on meta (lord knows who) and trying to discuss it with them. (this is of course under the assumption the the only beuracrat is not making balanced decisions. Viridae Talk 10:46, 7 February 2007 (UTC)


 * I don't know anything of what you say because I don't know Spanish. If you want to discuss this issue with someone, go to meta not English Wikipedia. Remember Spanish Wikipedia activities are not related to English Wikipedia. I do not have any comments about this issue. Complaints of other wikis hosted by Wikimedia should be directed to Meta. I can't do anything about this issue you raised. Terence Ong 10:55, 7 February 2007 (UTC)


 * OK, "Meta". Thank you very much for the tip. Any other suggestion?.Randroide 12:11, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

Keep the page here for now, since it's now here and what's done is done, so that's fine. Though if you really really want to be tidy: create a user on meta, and move the page there.

Note that en.wikipedia is no different from es.wikipedia, there's nothing much that can really be done from here.

To get real help, take this to the wikimedia foundation mailing list (foundation-l). The other thing you can do is go on irc.freenode.net, and talk with people in #wikipedia and #wikimedia. Politely of course.

None of this says who's right or wrong, that's something that needs to be sorted out. All this will do is put you in contact with the people who can look into things. That's a good start though! :-) --Kim Bruning 12:33, 7 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Though if you really really want to be tidy: create a user on meta

I want to be extremely tidy: I am in the crosshair of these guys. Just read this:


 * Well, congratulations, you've just became the greatest threat for the spanish mafia, the are now suggesting to block you ad infinitum, I think that shows how afraid are 'em of you. Let's see for how long are they going to feel satisfied with this huge triumph. Greetings.

It was suggested to me (via email, because some users from es:Wikipedia are just afraid) to avoid my banning deleting the contentious page just to be resurrected in another user´s page (it is GFDL content, after all, and it has been copied off-Wiki) by another User. That´s the way to go, and thank you to your information, I know now that Meta is the correct place. I´ll tell this to the girl that gave me the idea.


 * Note that en.wikipedia is no different from es.wikipedia, there's nothing much that can really be done from here.

Oh no, sir. I disagree with you, TOTALLY: en:wikipedia is VERY different to es:Wikipedia. That´s the reason I am here talking with you.

And yes, there´s a lot to be done about this issue here:
 * First: Provide me with information about the right doors to knock.
 * Second: Give to the "exiless" (not just me) moral support. This two lines are a very powerful morale booster to encourage me (and others) to do not throw the towel. Randroide 13:37, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

Randroide is a very disruptive user, he usually interrupt other editors to write good articles, he likes walk over the line that separate forbidden and allowed, sometimes cross the line although normally our (spanish admins') good faith condone his faults, Randroindre's bigger problem is that he never recognizes him own errors. I recommend to ignore this user. Yrithinnd 19:21, 7 February 2007 (UTC) Sorry for my english


 * Not assuming good faith I would say that you are lying through your teeth, Yrithinnd. None of the links you provide support your assertions: It is very convenient the text you link is written in Spanish.Randroide 12:00, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

Comment by Drini
In any case  we don't have a say on spanish wikipedia blocks . Just as we wouldn't let some other wiki admin to come here and argue over our blocks. The user was blocked on the spanish wikipedia, let the spanish admins deal with it.

And for the record, yes, we do sometimes block for actions outside wikipedia (wikitruth? wikipediareview? nathan? etc), this was a block related to content inside wikipedia, so let the spanish admins sort it out. Don't take the bait. -- Drini 18:09, 7 February 2007 (UTC)


 * I'm preparing a commented version of Randroide's page that led to his block there. It's at User:Drini/randroide, based on the version from february 5: since people wanted to know what the page was about. However it must be said that other wiki users can't come here to fight on the validity of our blocks, and likewise we can't go other wikis and fight the validity of their blocks. -- Drini 18:40, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

Randroide on Drini

 * He's known for attacks on admins on spanish wikipedia, after being banned there, he took refuge here posting the samecontent that got him banned there

False, false and false, Drini: Three falsehoods in a single block of text. Not bad. Assuming good faith, you are ignorant about this issue.


 * Please provide the diffs of me attacking admins (a difficult task, indeed) or strike your false claim.
 * I have never been banned. I have been blocked three times on very flimsy grounds. Please, strike your false claim.
 * You stated on your own page you're known as a troll, and that you've been blocked several times, last one for life. It's your own writing linked. (section about Anagnorisis on User:Drini/randroide )-- Drini 19:24, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
 * I never wrote that. Anagnorisis wrote that!!!. Your sleep debt, again. Please, get some sleep. Or pay more attention: This is not a casual chat at the IRC where you can drop any assertion that fits your fancy, but a public forum where a controversial issue is treated. Randroide 19:41, 7 February 2007 (UTC)


 * I never posted that content on Spanish Wikipedia. Please strike your false claim.


 * The following are my personal opinions. Dont' take them as fact

"It´s my personal opinion" it´s not an excuse for defamation , sir.

If you have no factual knowledge about my actions (Dont' take them as fact) I demand you to please stop saying bad (or good, just the same) things about me.

If I am ignorant about something, I usually shut up. It is a good policy.


 * linking a page where petronas tells him that his opinions here won't affect his work on es:

If you are a native Spanish speaker, I suggest you (seriously) to take a nap, because this "translation" shows that you have a huge sleep debt.

The admin from es:Wiki menaced me writing this:


 * No va a favorecer en nada tus versiones en es:wikipedia. Una lástima.


 * i.e., "This is not going to be good for your versions at es:Wikipedia. What a pity", not your "translation".

Please, correct the text... and get some sleep.


 * we don't have a say on spanish wikipedia blocks

The block at es:Wikipedia was caused by a page at en:Wikipedia, something unprecedented. Sure that en:Wiki admins here have a say about that page.

I requested comment about that page to a bureaucrat months ago and I had no response, so I supposed I had tacit consent. If the page is improper, I ask for speedy deletion and that´s it, or we, the "exilees" can move that page to Meta or the wherever "Esperanza" is now. Randroide 18:56, 7 February 2007 (UTC)


 * This doesn't sound like an issue to be resolved on en.wikipedia.org -- personally, I'd suggest you either take it to es.wikipedia.org or meta.wikimedia.org. Their blocking policy is surely an interesting topic, but doesn't fall within our "jurisdiction," so to speak. That's how I see this, anyway. Luna Santin 19:57, 7 February 2007 (UTC)


 * ecIf you want a page that you authored deleted, add db-author and it will be deleted shortly. There really is nothing at all that en: admins can do about es: blocks. If es: decides to start blocking every username that begins with the letter 'r', we have no influence on that decision. Regardless of the merits of your particular case, this is not the right forum for it. There's nothing else we can offer you here. Jkelly 19:58, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

My three cents: Thanks, TheronJ 20:11, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
 * 1) There's nothing inherently crazy about Randroide's request. If all he wants is an opinion from this community to take back to es.wiki that his en.wiki activities were all right under en.wiki norms, then we can give him our opinion, and what the es.wiki admins do with that opinion is up to them.
 * 2) With that said, I don't think Randroide's en.wiki page was "kosher," as he puts it. En.wiki isn't a social site, and a page devoted to agitating for political change on another wiki isn't really appropriate, IMHO.  True, Randroide was apparently never blocked, but my guess would be that if anyone noticed he was using his talk page to lobby for change on es.wiki, somebody would have told him to take it to meta or offsite.
 * 3) Finally, what es.wiki does with that opinion seems to me to be up to them. It's es.wiki's decision (1) whether to get concerned about off-site activities; and (2) whether Randroide's page violated es.wiki norms.  I tend to think that blocking someone for off-site political lobbying is inappropriate, but it's not my decision to make.