User talk:Mai-Sachme/Archive

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Robert Bunsen
Hi Mai-Sachme,

Please see Talk:Robert_Bunsen and my recent edit...I think there is some legitimate academic confusion about the birth date and I've attempted to provide some sources beyond your talk page list as well as providing the information to the reader. I'd appreciate any feedback you can provide. Thanks, &mdash; Scientizzle 15:11, 31 March 2011 (UTC)

i'll try again
What is your problem with me? You don't even know me, nor have we spoken at any length. Why don't you try to discuss a little bit, and see if we can at least come to some common understanding. All I ever tried on here was to come up with a compromise that respects both languages, and also respects what is really used in English. All you do is try to do what noclador would do, and discount my opinions. I've said many times I understand the German point of view, I just don't think it is fair that it is the only this way, or the highway... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.89.129.139 (talk) 09:51, 8 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Would you please recognize that I'm not interested in German/Italian/whatever points of view? We were having a serious and calm discussion (or were, until you came) what the most common English name for the province is. You are welcome to contribute, for example by discussiong these graphs. --Mai-Sachme (talk) 09:56, 8 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Yeah, maybe calm, because there are no opposing viewpoints. :P Seriously dude, you don't find it interesting at all that all these users who always hated the move to Province of Bolzano-Bozen come back to vote when that one editor asks for a move request?  Anyway, thanks for the graph, it is a worthwhile data point.  However, can you explain to me what is wrong in your eyes with using Province of Bolzano-Bozen, as they use in Brittanica?  Do you know how harsh the discussions were on this page when it was at South Tyrol?  Also, can you understand that I'm not making things up when I saw that in the United States, if we ever hear about this little province, it is almost always referred to as Alto Adige?  I'm aware of the sensitivities, the "it is a fascist holdover", etc., etc.  Then you get pissed at me when I say nationalism? :]  You don't think it is provocative that that editor initiates a move request to try to put it to South Tyrol (only)?  Is it not provocative to constantly unbold Alto Adige, or remove any statement that says it is used in English?  You have no problems with that?
 * According to USEENGLISH and COMMONNAME the most common English name for a subject has to be used. Nothing is wrong with Province of Bolzano-Bozen, it's just used significantly rarer than South Tyrol. --Mai-Sachme (talk) 10:07, 8 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Ok, and according to "common name", i would agree that Alto Adige and South Tyrol are used much more regularly than Province of Bolzano-Bozen. It does fit under "use english" though.  You do understand that the Province of Bolzano-Bozen had a few good reasons to use it.  One, it is used in encyclopedias like Brittanica, so we have an English source.  Next, it is bilingual, so we have some hope for a compromise.  Lastly, it helps fit this page with all the other Provinces of xyz for Italy.  Lastly, we have tons of redirects, and we had both Alto Adige and South Tyrol boldface in the article.  Is it really such a bad solution in your eyes?  If there was an idea to go with Alto Adige or South Tyrol, why not then at least make the page Alto Adige/South Tyrol.  But somehow it has to be South Tyrol, right?  You have to realize that none of this is unbiased with many of the editors involved.  Many are editors from BZ with their own deep feelings on this.  Others are native German or Italian speakers.  I'm impressed if you can be so idealistic about your fellow editors, but the comments I've seen people make -- give me doubts.  Is that fair?  76.89.129.139 (talk) 10:22, 8 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Let me get this straight. You ignore the fact, that South Tyrol is by far the most common English name, and suggest for various reasons to ignore at least two Wikipedia policies? Am I wrong? --Mai-Sachme (talk) 10:24, 8 April 2011 (UTC)
 * I'm sorry, but I do not agree that South Tyrol is the "by far" the most common English ame. I believe that in the United States, Alto Adige is used much more commonly.  In the United Kingdom, maybe it is more 50/50.  BBC articles I read tend to go either way.  Overall, if there was some rigorous methodology available to do a comparison, I think the error involved still wouldn't allow one to say that Alto Adige or South Tyrol is used more than the other.  By using Province of Bolzano-Bozen, we are not ignoring two Wikipedia policies.  It is English usage, coming directly from Britannica.  It is also used in the English translation from the provincial website (Province of Bolzano).  Yes, I agree with you it is not used as commonly in articles as Alto Adige or South Tyrol.  But I already explained that there is good reason, to follow the other Province of xyz pages, and for some hope of a compromise.  Does that have no merit? 76.89.129.139 (talk) 10:33, 8 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Okay, so you're simply ignoring these graphs, based on a few millions of English books. No need for further discussions. --Mai-Sachme (talk) 10:39, 8 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Mai-Sachme, I'm not ignoring that graph. But that is one source of data, it is a single data point in all accounts.  That is a good reference to add to many others, but just by that graph you can't say that South Tyrol is overwhelmingly used in English.  Why do you ignore the information and experience I'm trying to share with you?  Then saying "no need for further discussion".  That just gives the impression you don't want to hear anything except two thumbs up for lets go South Tyrol.  76.89.129.139 (talk) 10:48, 8 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Right, a single data point based on a few million of English books. Your personal experience is according to No original research of no interest. You may continue alone. --Mai-Sachme (talk) 10:52, 8 April 2011 (UTC)
 * So much for your 'assuming good faith' Mai-Sachme. You are simply being rude with each of your posts, with your "No need for further discussions" or "You may continue alone".  Disappointing... 76.89.129.139 (talk) 11:04, 8 April 2011 (UTC)

censorship
I like that you even try to erase my text pointing out that you censor people. Man, I tried to extend an olive branch to you, and you are just like everyone of your compatriots. Incredible. 76.89.129.139 (talk) 11:34, 8 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Write your comments according to WP:NPA, then everything will be fine. --Mai-Sachme (talk) 11:38, 8 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Yeah, and assume good faith, and everything will be fine, right? Just like Sajoch removes Alto Adige and the text saying it is also used in English? Your own book data shows it is used in English writings.  Why don't you stand up and stop him from doing that?  And you wonder why I feel you guys are biased and gang up on anyone with a different opinion?  Also, I did a few simple searches on Google English, and it shows 19million to 3million in usage from Alto Adige to South Tyrol.  I hope you follow through and look at all the data fairly, not just the data that suits the pro South Tyrol argument.   .  Just another data point, but an order of magnitude usually means something even for a crude method.  You feel no shame at all how you guys treat me when I post those links on Sajoch's page about Ladin linguistics?  I give him information that upsets his little view of the World, and then I'm not worth talking to?  This has been the consistent treatment from folks on your side of aisle to others, and you wonder why people get pissed off?  76.89.129.139 (talk) 11:54, 8 April 2011 (UTC)
 * I didn't remove Alto Adige - it's still there! I simply corrected your claim that Alto Adige is an english name, which it is not. English people may use different names for our region, as to your own source, where we find in bold Speck is the most treasured food product of the Südtirol. So your own sources simply show, that in english all variants are used.--Sajoch (talk) 12:32, 8 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Alto Adige is used in the English language Sajoch. The statement, "commonly known in English as Alto Adige or South Tyrol", is absolutely correct.  If you deny that this region is known in English as Alto Adige, you are lying to yourself.  The name Alto Adige has been adopted into the English language, as many other foreign words have.  You, for some reason, appear to want to pretend this isn't the case.  Why?  I gave you the example of San Francisco and Los Angeles, but you simply turned the discussion to fascism. 76.89.129.139 (talk) 19:45, 8 April 2011 (UTC)

you owe me an apology
That comment you made saying I detest the term South Tyrol is offensive. If you are someone that can even muster it, you really owe me an apology. I'm one of the FEW people on here that has tried to bridge this childish war, and pushed for multilingual naming solutions. If you want to go after people who detest NAMES, why don't you go after the people who have been cleansing these pages for the last year or two. All these names to me are extremely important, they are the HISTORY and provide the richness of this region. You need to do a bit of soul searching I think, and look at how you easily let slide the behavior of folks who are out to ERASE and MINIMIZE anything that doesn't fit their politicial or ethnic bias. And, you know it... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.89.129.139 (talk) 08:10, 9 April 2011 (UTC)


 * It is sad the level of censorship you commit. I'd never do that to your posts, and what you've said in many posts are clearly personal attacks.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.89.129.139 (talk) 08:28, 9 April 2011 (UTC)

personal attacks
STOP your personal attacks. I've taken my time to honestly discuss things with you, and you constantly berate me, accuse me, slander me. You don't even know me, and you so easily make these harsh and hurtful comments? I tried to extend an olive branch to both you and Sajoch, and everything I say gets belittled. Is this how you are in real life? Any opinion that counters your established opinions, you attack? I even got this when I asked Sajoch about who Italians really are, and about the Ladin language. I posted links, for goodness sake, and still I get slammed. I really can't believe you people. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.89.129.139 (talk) 09:08, 9 April 2011 (UTC)
 * LOL! how brazen and laughable! noclador (talk) 12:25, 9 April 2011 (UTC)