User talk:Makalp/archive nov2006

MOTL
User:MonsterOfTheLake was a friend of mine. He and I got into a fallout on AOL Instant Messenger, and he quit Wikipedia after being blocked for a bit for wrongful conduct (blanking his own talk page, etc.) WhisperToMe 00:53, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

You've got some nerve
Please don't underestimate other people's intelligence by asking for an apology. I thought from day 1 that it was a mistake to let you back and your activity is proving me right with each second that goes by. Instead of admitting to a terribly poor contributing behaviour that you'd be willing to improve, you've got the nerve to ask from people to apologise to you. You actually expect editors to invite you back to wikipedia and admit their mistake of getting you banned you in the first place. And as if that wasn't enough, you're actually pursuing people's apologies by leaving them messages in their Talk pages, I'm mean this is just laughable. I just feel sorry about the admins and editors that will have to deal with you again in the near future. Miskin 16:14, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

I suggest that you simply forget the whole thing and turn on to editing; proving who was wrong and who was right and who insulted whom usually just makes things worse. Duja► 16:24, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

Zeibeks
Merheba Mustafa, what do you think of this as a compromise? All I'm really looking for are sources for both claims. For example, one user claimed they were of Uzbek origin.

It indeed sounds a lot like Robin Hood. Regarding Bakhus: I'm not quite sure. I'll copyedit the article when I have the time. Kolay gelsin, Khoikhoi 07:00, 3 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Hmmm, that is indeed interesting. As for Gökçeada, I did a partial revert. What do you think? Khoikhoi 09:25, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

Imbros
Hi Mustafa! Sorry, but i had not noticed that u had changed the grammar of the article, in order to refer only to Imbros and not to both (Imbros and Tenedos)-something that had remained since the time that these two articles were forming a single one. My attention was attracted by some of your edits, tat's why i made a full revert... Anyway... My point is that the Greek names are not 'previous or old', since they are still in use by, at least, the Greeks. as for the citations u have requested for, they are included in the 3 link of the references. i do not know turkish, so i cannot find the original text. maybe u could help on that. Regards Hectorian 14:47, 4 November 2006 (UTC)


 * I'm afraid i do not know how to add colours etc to make the table look prettier... Btw, i added the 1927 census with link. can u find the original? even in turkish, it would be good to have it as a link. Regards Hectorian 18:01, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

Murat Reis the Older
Ok, thanks for the tip! I must have gotten a bit carried away and I apologise. I am quite new at stopping vandalism and I'll make sure I have a look at the rule pages. Thanks! Think outside the box 17:05, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

RfA thanks
 Thank you for participating in my RfA discussion! I appreciate you contributing your voice to the debate and its outcome. I hope how I wield the mop makes you proud. &mdash; Saxifrage

Thank you for your support!
a

Response
Hi Mustafa,

Large Barge appears to be some vandal/troll. If he continues his behavior he should probably be blocked. Just give him vandalism warnings, and after test4, you can report him at WP:AIV. As for OTE, thanks for letting me know. The anon who keeps reverting is a banned user called Mywayyy (because he wants to have things his wayyyyy). ;-) I'll protect the page if he doesn't stop. Cheers, Khoikhoi 06:49, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

Thanks
Thank you for speaking up. It is a difficult area. Someone who is unfamiliar with the wiki may not know all the rules, or may mis-speak and say something he does not mean. I think your good advice will help him. Tom Harrison Talk 17:52, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

A problem
Hey Mustafa, I just noticed we have two articles about the same thing on the Turkish Wikipedia: Candaroğulları and Candaroğulları Beyliği. The second one has been around longer. Do you think we should merge the two pages? Khoikhoi 05:22, 9 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Ok, thanks. Khoikhoi 02:44, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

Turkey City Template
Mustafa! I agree with you about the flag.

1. I think we should use district for ilçe, and prefecture for kaymakamlık (the administration of ilçe) 2. For districts, municipality (belediye) and prefecture (kaymakamlık) web siteleri diye düşündüm. Governorship (valilik) web site da ilave edilebilir. 3. For belde, municipality of that township (belediye) and the prefecture of the district (kaymakamlık) web siteleri. Mesela, Dalyan için, www.dalyan.bel.tr and www.ortaca.gov.tr. Governorship (valilik) web site yine de ilave edilebilir. 4. For villages, şu anda aklıma birşey gelmiyor. 5. For provinces (il), I say we cite the governorship web site only. We can also look for detailed maps for each province.

Tabii ki beraber çalışırız. Neler yapılabilir diye düşünelim.

There is also sometimes a very strict interpretation of a commercial site sometimes. www.marmaris.org for example, may have had a commercial outset, but it also gives precious information on the city. I think we can think about a solution on that too. Regards.

Cretanforever 10:14, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

I rcvd your message Mustafa. I wrote some notes on the talk page of your templates. I wrote in Turkish to have it easier. After all, its a template page created through your talk page and its on Turkish cities and towns. Bir bakarsan sevinirim. :)

Cretanforever 14:38, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

I saw the great work Mustafa. I will move them to a page annexed to wikiproject Turkey, such as under names like wikiprojectturkey/MustafaAkalp/WorksheetTurkeyCitiesInfobox etc., to try to gather a larger participation of opinions. One of these days, we should prepare similar Infoboxes for archaeological sites in Turkey too, indicating their locations, the civilization which left traces in that particular site etc. Bakıyorum. Cretanforever 12:06, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

I listed the templates in WikiProject_Turkey/Templates page for discussion. I don't there is a need to have different infoboxes for districts (ilçe) and district center town (ilçe merkezi). And all province capitals are also districts and district centers anyway (merkez ilçe). On the other hand, we may need to differentiate for belde. Let's see if we will have other Turkish users who may have further opinions on the subject. For example, many districts indicate their literacy rate preciously. There are even some who have conducted local researches on linguistic data, such as Biga. But I don't think we need to go that far in an infobox. Regards. Cretanforever 13:21, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

Welcome
Hi Mustafa, thanks a lot for your appreciation and strong support to my RFA! Do let me know if I can be of any assistance!! -- Lost (talk) 10:57, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

Request of assistance for vandal user behaviour by Khoikhoi
Could the administation and users take an independent look for the following reversal of useful and pertinent contributions at the Mustafa Kemal Ataturk site please? It is very difficult for me not to interpret the revision by Khoikhoi as disrespectful vandalism and disruptive behaviour. More I studied his log history at various article related to the Turkish subjects and prior bans for the same disruptive behaviour, more concerned I became. Could someone help revert the edits he damaged and request him to be more respectful to others' work? Thank you.

(cur) (last) 16:06, 10 November 2006 Khoikhoi (Talk | contribs) (rv to last version by me) (what last revision? this is a whole sale deletion and vandalism, is it not?) (cur) (last) 14:59, 10 November 2006 Incir (Talk | contribs) (→External links) (cur) (last) 14:26, 10 November 2006 88.242.84.98 (Talk) (→See also) (cur) (last) 06:19, 10 November 2006 71.162.66.250 (Talk) (→An Overview in A Nutshell) (cur) (last) 05:59, 10 November 2006 71.162.66.250 (Talk) (→International relations)

RfA thanks
Hi Mustafa Akalp, I am very thankful to you for supporting and comments on my succesful RfA. Shyam ( T / C ) 06:35, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

Censorship on Atatürk article

 * WHO ARE YOU?
 * Nemo iudex in causa sua! I ask for a neutral arbitor! Since when can you exclude me from Wikipedia?
 * You are ignoring cited references! And facts! This is censorship!
 * Apocolocynthosis 15:38, 11 November 2006 (UTC)]]

Template
OK. i corrected it, by placing Cyprus, with TRNC in parenthesis. since Turkish is de jure the official language of the whole island, and the official of the de facto independent northern half, i think this is the best way to place it. Regards Hectorian 17:21, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

172GAL
I blocked her because of this comment, where she said, "did your boyfriend Khoikhoi like being fingered last nite? Is it your turn today, Bertil?" Yes, he attacked me, but I was not involved in a dispute with her, Bertil was, so it is still in-line with WP:BLOCK. I know it's light, but if she makes further personal attacks at that level I will extend it to a week. Cheers, Khoikhoi 06:02, 13 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Sure, we can give her one more chance, but I'll have another admin deal with it the next time. Thanks for the advice! Khoikhoi 06:13, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

Blocking - Unblocking - And now?
First of all, thank you very much for unblocking me! But for what reason did you block me?

Is there no discussion about existing references? I doubt anyone had the time to check my given references as one day before Armanalp pretended they didn't even exist.

Strange! Strange!

How shall we proceed now?

What do YOU think? Why did you unblock me now out of a sudden without comment?

Acting without comments reminds me of IGNORING my references. (Well, it is better than annihilating or assimilating me). Apocolocynthosis 13:15, 13 November 2006 (UTC)]]

Huh? Thanks
Well im glad that vandal was banned, BUT i didn't violate 3RR, and I dont remember saying any bad words, well unless you count when i said 'hell ya'. I'm very sorry, i misunderstood you (I was only able to hastely read you message as i was at school). I thought you were warning ME about 3RR and bad words, anyway I'd like to thank you for your efforts aswell. Armanalp 14:13, 13 November 2006 (UTC)


 * What about an excuse towards my address? Do you still aggressively pretend I am posting references that do not exist? What manners are these? Dogru konusani dokuz köyden kovarlar. (ya da [ermenileri] öldürüler] estagfurullah, sözde öldürüler!
 * What games are being played here?


 * No, discussion of my references?


 * This means I am right and I will re-post the part you deleted in the Atatürk article.


 * Thanks, indeed!
 * 16:21, 13 November 2006 (UTC)Apocolocynthosis 16:22, 13 November 2006 (UTC)]]

We've been trying to reason with you, but you keep calling us dictators Armanalp 16:53, 13 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Not looking up a reference in a book (there are libraries) but pretending the reference does not exist isn't reasoning!!!


 * Do you want me to photocopy and scan the material because it is a hotly contested issue?


 * Because proving that a reference given does exist is not standard procedure in Wikipedia. Footnotes about literature usually are good enough!


 * I mean: do you need this prove because it is unbelievable for you or is it just sth in your point of view (=probatio diabolica).


 * If so it is useless to show the prove. You will again and again ask for more proves. If not I can try to do so as it will cost me time to do so.


 * Can you follow me? Apocolocynthosis 14:24, 15 November 2006 (UTC)]]

Happy now? because of anti-turkish people like you, there's a POV seciton stuck there on full-protect. Armanalp 18:28, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

History of Turks
Oh, Mustafa sorry, I just wanted to invite you for the template's entry on the Templates for Deletion page. Turkish History Brief and i used the message what Khosrow II wrote me but when i see preview i noticed that there is Khosrow's signature and i couldn't delete his signature and put mine. 0 21:38, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

Vandalism
Don't call other people's POV edits "Vandalism", that's disruptive behavior. --Mardavich 13:07, 20 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Learn how to use the templates, you don't call other people's POV edits "vandalism", take this as a warning. --Mardavich 13:17, 20 November 2006 (UTC)


 * You have to use the 3RR template I think. Regardless, you're not suppose to revert other people using automated reverting (Java) which is for simple vandalism only. Please revert yourself, and take part in the discussions on the talk page before reverting again. --Mardavich 13:29, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

Answers

 * 1) It wasn't my decision to block you, and I honestly don't think you should've been (if you continued after the first warning, then it would be different).
 * 2) Tajik contacted 6 editors about the TfD, while you contacted 32 editors about my RfA. Which one do you think was more disruptive and causes more damage?
 * 3) Anyone is welcome to voice their opinion, but suppose someone nominates an Iran-related article for deletion, and then I contact all the Iranian users I know to vote "keep". Do you think we would have an unbiased result? Do you think it's really fair? As for your wife, I'm not sure if she already has an account here, but usually anons/unsigned votes are not counted (that's just what I've observed). I'm not sure where the policy is. Khoikhoi 03:56, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

Turkey Infobox Province template
Mustafa merhaba! Why am I unable to insert the map by using the infobox template you created? There was a slight mistake at one point, that I corrected to solve another problem, but I am still unable to put the province location map into the infobox, for example, for Muğla Province. Could you please take a look.

Also, since you are interested in developing city/town/province templates, you may be interested in adding your name to the parallel (and basically identical -you will see that the two templates are linked-) project in the Turkish wikipedia |here. That will make the three of us with also User: Ugur Basak who want to renew the present-day very ugly template we are using there. Selam. Cretanforever 20:23, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

The template
I didn't delete anyone's vote, I just unbolded Zkaradag's second vote. He had had voted twice, by mistake I think. You can not reorganize other people's votes or move them to diffrent sections, that's the job of the administrators, I am going to revert you, don't do it again please. --Mardavich 15:05, 22 November 2006 (UTC)


 * You can't organize the people's votes, that's the closing admins' job. Don't do it again. --Mardavich 15:10, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Remember Mustafa, TfD is not a "vote" per se, it's a discussion, the administrators don't literally count the votes, they look at the discussions to see who makes more sense. --Mardavich 15:18, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Hi, I actually agree with Mardavich here - although it was certainly a well-meaning idea to try and tidy up the page, it's not normally done that way. Better leave it to the admins who are going to close it. Leave the contributions in their temporal order as they came in, that's also part of the information after all. Fut.Perf. ☼ 15:55, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

"Opinions on genocide"
Where exactly is their consensus regarding this section of the article? I see discussion regarding the section, but I don't see any place where people are actually talking about keeping or removing the section. I am not experienced in the whole subject, so I prefer not to take sides here. However, I will add the tag to the section. At the moment, that's the best I can do. Sorry.  Nish kid 64  17:50, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

Voting on Talk:Mustafa Kemal Atatürk
Thanks for informing me about the vote you proposed. I believe voting is not a good idea for the situation. I hope you can understand. Instead, I tried to explain my position in this dispute in an effort to reach a consensus. Saygılarımla, Atilim Gunes Baydin 19:54, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

Turkish project template
Hi, Mustafa. Recently you have added quite a number of Turkish project templates to the talk pages of the articles. Some of these additions seems to be controversial. While it is OK to have two project templates on the same page having this template on a page not closely related to the project make people feel nervous. Say Russian control over "Constantinople" was an official goal of the Government in WWI, some writers seemed to be very attached to it. Suppose I will put a Russian (or Greek) project template on the talk page of the Istanbul, would not Turkish editors feel nervous? The similar way Indian editors feel about adding Turkey project template over Baburnama or Azeris and Iranians over Azerbaijani_language. We already have a number of edit wars in the article space, the last thing we need is template wars in the talk page. This templates are suppose to help people edit, not the other around. Do you think it is possible to put the template only on the article directly related to Ottoman Empire and modern Turkey and avoid putting them there they might initiate edit wars? Thank you for understanding. Alex Bakharev 14:20, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

WikiProject
I see your doing some wikiproject tagging and I have a bot that could help if your intrested. Betacommand (talk • contribs • Bot) 16:29, 24 November 2006 (UTC)
 * All I need are a list of categories that need tagged and the template that you use Betacommand (talk • contribs • Bot) 16:51, 24 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Re


 * Is it work also to insert cat to articles, If I supply list of articles?
 * yes It can do that


 * When I supply list of cats, and if some articles(which have this template already)under any cat, will there be double template?
 * no it will not double tag articles.
 * Betacommand (talk • contribs • Bot) 17:10, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

List of countries by Human Development Index
I have reverted your move of the above article. I have two main reasons for doing. The first is that it creates unneccesary disambiguation, because pages don't exist for the other years (i.e. they aren't archived), nor will they ever. Therefore, each year the list is updated, it would have to be moved again, which is absolutely ridiculous to suggest. But also, it contained incorrect punctuation (the ",2006" should be ", 2006"). Just thought I'd let you know. - Рэд хот (t • c • e) 20:05, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

Reply
Ok, bu haftasonu epey mesgulim ama en kisa zamanda bakmaya calisacagim. Karcha'nin durumu icin bir post biraktim, o konuyla ilgili de en kisa zamanda ilgilenmeye calisacagim. Take care! Baristarim 12:24, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

Kızılırmak
Ok, I think I figured out what you are trying to do...the page is now at Kızılırmak. Adam Bishop 15:44, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

Vandalism...
Hi, thanks for reporting that vandalism. Another thing: What's this warning of yours on User talk:Arash the Bowman doing? ) First, I suppose you meant to say Kara Koyunlu, not Karakoyunlu (that's a different page, actually) - but remember: please don't use vandalism/test templates in content disputes. Those are really only for noobs who don't know what they are doing or for people who just damage things for fun. Arash supposedly knows what he's doing. Thanks, Fut.Perf. ☼ 19:39, 25 November 2006 (UTC)
 * As for the attacker sock IP, I blocked them again - this guy should definitely be kept banned, I quite agree. As for your dispute with Arash and the other Iranians, I think the best thing is not to use template "warnings" at all - with established users like them, the templates just come across as condescending and inflammatory and hardly ever help. Best thing will be to try to invite them politely to a civilised and constructive discussion. I'd hate to see that page end up in all-out editwarring again. Fut.Perf. ☼ 19:53, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

Kızılırmak
I have moved the page back. We must remember that the average English speaker doesn't know Turkish, and most English sources call it the "Kızıl River". Please see the talk page. Khoikhoi 20:42, 25 November 2006 (UTC)


 * BTW, it's "typos", not "tipos". Khoikhoi 20:43, 25 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Yes. "Tipos" is a typo. :-) NikoSilver 20:47, 25 November 2006 (UTC)


 * :)) Baristarim 08:39, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

Selam Mustafa, I have no problem with having WPTR at Talk:Thessaloniki. The city is very important to Turkish history, I agree. Ciao, Khoikhoi 21:07, 25 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Mesajınız Var. Khoikhoi 21:45, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus stubs
Hi - this is just to inform you that a stub type that you made has been nominated for deletion at WP:SFD. The stub type was not proposed in this form at WP:WSS/P, as it should have been, and is identical to a stub type that was deleted only two months ago. As such, it may be speedily deleted. Stub types are deliberately not created for nations and regions not widely internationally recognised, as they can lead to edit wars (which with templates create far more problems for Wikipedia's servers than similar edit wars with articles). Also there would be some doubt this stub type could reach the necessary size threshold for a stub category (as explained at WP:STUB). Please use cyprus-stub and its subtypes, which are for the whole of the island of Cyprus (since many articles relating to the island include information dating to prior to the 1980s), where necessary double-stubbing with Turkey-stub. Grutness...wha?  23:30, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

Cooperation board launched
A new (and overdue) Greek and Turkish cooperation and notification board has been launched here. Stop by, have a look and sound off! Cheers! Baristarim 07:19, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

Your "deneme" page
Hi Mustafa, I'm not sure what you want to do with that "deneme" subpage of yours, but could you please remove all those categories from it? It makes the page actually show up in the listings of articles for each of those categories, which is bad. Thanks! Fut.Perf. ☼ 19:57, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

Your sub page
Hello. I have just changed User:Mustafa Akalp/deneme because the page was meaninglessly appearing in all of those categories. The page now has a link to each of the categories, which I guess is what you intended. Regards, RobertG &#9836; talk 10:55, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

Thank you for your support
I wasn't going to send thank-you cards, but the emotional impact of hitting WP:100 (and doing so unanimously!) changed my mind. So I appreciate your confidence in me at RFA, and hope you'll let me know if I can do anything for you in the future. Cheers! -- nae'blis 23:52, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

RfA thanks
Thank you for voting in my RfA, I passed. I appreciate your input. Please keep an eye on me(if you want) to see if a screw up. HighInBC (Need help? Ask me) 15:59, 29 November 2006 (UTC)