User talk:Making Change Street Newspaper

March 2010
unblock-spamun|Your proposed new username|Your reason here

Thanks for the answer. And narrowing down the issues. If I am being blocked for a promotional username, I cannot re-register because my entire ip address is blocked. I agree to changing my user name. I was under the impression that posting open domain material held the clause that I had to have a right to post the info, and not quote someone else's site. I don't know if you can see the order in which I signed up today. But I read the homeless, and chose the panhandling link. Then I created an account, username and then posted. I had never gone through the posting process before, and invisibly there were deletions, which I countered with reinstatements. I received a message, and did not know how to respond, there was no way to engage until the ban. I confirmed my email address, and unless I am unbanned and clear on how to correct the terms of the inappropriate username, then I cannot participate at all. I am encouraged that I am no longer considered spamming on the subject of homelessness and panhandling. I did agree earlier to not double post and attempted to delete our site address on the homeless area, and restricted to our so-called self-promotion in the panhandling area. We are not looking for donations or vendors. We are looking for homeless people to transform their panhandling to another level, consciously.

Michael Stoops, of the National Coalition on Homelessness actually funded NASNA's creation. Would he or they be able to post information about NASNA on the site? I posted theirs and ours, because I thought Making Change is not only relevant to the subjects, to my posts, we would in fact be able to post nasna insp and ours because we do have vested interest. We are one of the first street papers in their organization. I am fine with not posting Making Change, but the coalition still stands as relevant in my mind, and I'm open to discussion on that point and negotiation.

I still take issue with the aggressive panhandling segment and now see that the discussion could be held in the discussion area? It seems odd that the aggressive panhandling definition completely condones the enforcement aspect of aggressive panhandling, not its causes, and not any alternatives. It should not read like the anti-panhandling codes, that is available legislatively in every city that has enacted and enforces its use. The causes of aggressive panhandling are important as are the alternatives.

I would argue the mention of programs like Salvation Army etc. except that I don't see EDARs listed. Advertising tents for sale to people so that homeless people can get arrested using them, and having them confiscated while EDARS keeps the change. We promote our project as a homeless invented solution to panhandling as a social problem, addressing the need, not the greed.

I would feel a lot better if NASNA and INSP were presented in the Incomes section or say something regarding homeless operated social services having the ability to be showcased like the many agencies listed in the homeless/panhandling areas.

Thank you for weathering my opinion, i understand there needs to be neutrality. But I don't see neutrality in the homeless/panhandling area. I see elitism. I don't see homeless activism addressed any more than I see homeless people with addresses. With all the shabby homeless people pictured, I would offer to model, except that would be self-promotion and not addressing the stereotypes presented in the homeless/panhandling definitions. (Including the stereotype that housed people with grand national agencies are the only homeless helpers out there)

So again, I offer to change my username, and offer my willingness to cooperate in a compromise of some form. I wouldn't block the originators of the material presented in the public area for being housed and discussing homelessness and I wouldn't block social service agencies with their bells and buckets for posting info on homelessness as if they were the only experts on the subject.

I will ask if Michael Stoops has mediative advice, as the director of the National Coalition on Homelessness who is quoted often in the areas, and the originator of NASNA's organization through their support, perhaps he can post the NASNA info - since Making Change and I have no qualification.

Jennafer Waggoner Yellowhorse


 * I will alert the admins as to your request. If you do get to create a new user name and edit again please feel free to approach me for help as to whether or not your article changes are appropriate. We always need editors who have particular knowledge of an area, as long as they're aware of our WP:COI guidelines. Five Pillars is also a good intro to Wikipedia. -- Neil N   talk to me  00:38, 29 March 2010 (UTC)

Thanks Niel. I didn't understand what was happening during your first contact, nor how to respond. I apologize for that. I definitely will take the time to review your recommended articles. I did contact, Michael Stoops of NCH mstoops@nationalhomeless.org, and Andy Freeze, Executive Director of NASNA andy.freeze@nasna.org and sns@street-papers.org, Lindsey Cochrane, of INSP, to see if we could come up with something compatible. I appreciate your response. I've heard stories about people attempting to change that homeless/panhandling tone, but I hope I didn't repeat their failures to apply reasonable energy to ensure the corrections meet your guidelines. Jennafer


 * Note your unblock request was declined (see the bottom of the page). You are free to re-request but the admins want to make sure that you understand that your edits should not promote any kind of entity or cause. Contacting people off-wiki (i.e., outside of Wikipedia) really won't help as these people will likely not know about our policies or guidelines. It's not like writing for a research paper or magazine. We are a tertiary source which relies on secondary sources (newspapers, magazines, academic papers) for content. If you are unblocked would you be willing to accept some kind of mentorship until you learn the ropes? -- Neil N   talk to me  03:13, 29 March 2010 (UTC)

unblock-spamun|Your proposed new username|Your reason her I understand that this isn't a forum for links. We are a project, organized by pandhandlers. It is unfair for wiki to advertise for these other social service agencies and not a homeless run operation and replicatable solution to homelessness. If there is another way to reframe the discussion I am open to suggestion

Answer - National Coalition for the Homeless, that children's services group listed their link, they are advertising I posted info for the North American Street Newspaper Assn, and the INSP. You can look it up on google, Making Change is 100% volunteer, the only donations we receive pay for the food program or the paper. If a person on the streets sells the paper 90% goes to the homeless person 10% or .20 goes to print the next edition. I didn't post to advertise. I didn't put any of our group members's names up. And I specifically addressed the condoning tone in the pandhandling article. And I believe I'm not the first to have a problem with that article. The article itself is condoning and condescending, and I say that as a homeless person. I would think we would have time to argue the point in a forum, blocking our ip address is pretty darn extreme. Blocking our user account is extreme. Blocking our post is negotiating. Its rather strange you can tell a homeless person they don't have an opportunity to define homelessness by promoting a Project, not a person, that can be replicated in any community. Making Change isn't expansionist. There are 70 street papers in North America by independent homeless people and are a movement, not a company.

In regards to the condoning tone of the piece, your panhandling definition is basically the ordinance, not the cause not the solution. So you are saying its okay to punish a panhandler for the following reasons. Do you have a link to panhandling under starvation?

I would request another review. And I can say NCH because I know them all personally.

I had no idea how to discuss this, and I am relieved that there is a place where I can communicate directly with an administrative team.

This is our very first posting ever to wiki. And while some of our vendors may be prostitutes we didn't post a link on the prostitution page. Or the drug addict page.

I request a review of my unblock denial because I am not a repeat offender, it is my first day posting ever. I don't think we should be blocked for first time offense. We posted only in homelessness and panhandling. And Wikki allows National Coalition's "reports" that all link to NCH, and every other non-homeless organization claiming they serve the homeless but don't hire them.

what about a link to NASNA and INSP under Income sources?

Jennafer Waggoner Yellowhorse


 * Please see WP:SOAPBOX and WP:COI. This isn't the place to promote any of your views or organizations, worthy as they may be. You were blocked because your user name was inappropriate as it is the name of an organization and was being used to promote that organization. -- Neil N   talk to me  19:49, 28 March 2010 (UTC)

If you are affiliated with some of the people, places or things you have written about, you may have a conflict of interest. In keeping with Wikipedia's neutral point of view policy, edits where there is a conflict of interest, or where such a conflict might reasonably be inferred, are strongly discouraged. If you have a conflict of interest, you should avoid or exercise great caution when:
 * 1) editing or creating articles related to you, your organization, or its competitors, as well as projects and products they are involved with;
 * 2) participating in deletion discussions about articles related to your organization or its competitors; and
 * 3) linking to the Wikipedia article or website of your organization in other articles (see Spam).

Please familiarize yourself with relevant policies and guidelines, especially those pertaining to neutral point of view, verifiability of information, and autobiographies.

For information on how to contribute to Wikipedia when you have a conflict of interest, please see our frequently asked questions for organizations. Thank you.  Neil N   talk to me  18:31, 28 March 2010 (UTC)

Please do not add inappropriate external links to Wikipedia, as you did to Begging. Wikipedia is not a collection of links, nor should it be used for advertising or promotion. Inappropriate links include (but are not limited to) links to personal web sites, links to web sites with which you are affiliated, and links that attract visitors to a web site or promote a product. See the external links guideline and spam guideline for further explanations. Because Wikipedia uses the nofollow attribute value, its external links are disregarded by most search engines. If you feel the link should be added to the article, please discuss it on the article's talk page rather than re-adding it. Thank you.  Neil N   talk to me  18:34, 28 March 2010 (UTC)

Your account has been blocked indefinitely from editing Wikipedia because it appears to be mainly intended or used for publicity and/or promotional purposes. Please read the following carefully.

Why can't I edit Wikipedia?

Your account's edits and/or username indicate that it is being used on behalf of a company, group, or organization for purposes of promotion and/or publicity. The edits may have violated one or more of our rules on spamming, which include: adding inappropriate external links, posting advertisements, and using Wikipedia for promotion. Wikipedia has many articles on companies, groups, and organizations, but it is considered inappropriate for such groups to use Wikipedia to write about themselves. In addition, usernames like yours are disallowed under our username policy.

Probably not. See FAQ/Organization for a helpful list of frequently asked questions by people in your position. Also, review the conflict of interest guidance to see the kinds of limitations you would have to obey if you did want to continue editing about your company, group, or organization. If this does not fit in with your goals, then you will not be allowed to edit again. Consider using one of the many websites that allow this instead.
 * Am I allowed to make these edits if I change my username?

You are still welcome to write about something other than your company or organization. If you do intend to make useful contributions on some other topic, you must convince a Wikipedia administrator that you mean it. To that end, please do the following:
 * What can I do now?


 * Add the text below this message box.
 * Replace the text "Your proposed new username" with a new username you are willing to use. See Special:Listusers to search for available usernames.  Your new username will need to meet our username policy.
 * Replace the text "Your reason here" with your reason to be unblocked. In this reason, you must:
 * Convince us that you understand the reason for your block and that you will not repeat the edits for which you were blocked.
 * Describe in general terms the contributions that you intend to make if you are unblocked.

If you believe this block was made in error, please see how to appeal a block. Blueboy96 18:36, 28 March 2010 (UTC)
 * I don't see any reason to unblock this account. You have stated in one of your unblock requests, "we would appreciate being able to promote an alternative..". Please check WP:PROMOTION, which explains that Wikipedia is not for advertising or promotion. Your user name is not appropriate by our rules, and the whole purpose of your being here runs against our mission. So I don't think a change of username would cure the problem. EdJohnston (talk) 02:06, 29 March 2010 (UTC)