User talk:Maluti

I only want to correct a statement on a page about Marie Warder whom I have known since she was a teenager. Your article stated that she married "band leader" Tom Warder That was his part-time occupation. That sentence should read 'When she was eighteen she married renowned avionics, gyroscope expert, and band leader, Tom Warder. Maluti (talk)
 * I have a good deal of experience with this article, and have researched Tom Warder to as great an extent as I could, and I have found no verification for any claim of renown by him. Without such verification, such statements amount to puffery and have been removed from the article.  WikiDan61 ChatMe!ReadMe!! 03:29, 12 December 2011 (UTC)\

I have no experience with editing User Talk, but I do have a few things to say.

1)In the article about Tom Warder, my friends, 'Murella' and 'Venturian' provided numerous pictures to substantiate the claims made for Tom Warder and, for instance, FYI his invention of the Gyroscope Brake saved airlines million of dollars in fuel as they no longer had to wait for the gyro to "topple" during interim stops on their way to a final destination. His wife saved that article in time to make a blog, "This is not a perfect world," out of it, and, furthermore he is acknowleged as the world's most famous Hemochromatosis patient.

BY the way, I noticed some discussion concerning Marie Warder's medal and was cynically amused by a query as to who awarded it to her,as it is clearly described as the Canada Medal of Honor. The "Sunday Times" in her article should be the Johannesburg Sunday Times
 * I have no desire to disrespect Mr. Warder. Those who knew him, inluding yourself and Murella, clearly thought very highly of him.  Unfortunately, Wikipedia is not a memorial site and articles require verifiability by citing reliable sources.  The source material provided regarding Tom Warder's accomplishments amounted to some personal recollections and photographs from his wife.  There is no public record that documents the significance of Warder's inventions.  If I am wrong in that statement, please provide the proof, and I'll rewrite the article on Tom myself.  But as far as I can tell, his sole claim to fame is that he was the first patient in whom hemochromatosis could be identified as a genetic condition.  This merits him mention in the article on Hemochromatosis, and in Marie Warder's biography, but does not merit him his own article.
 * As to questions about the content of the Marie Warder article, the doubt arises because Google searches fail to find any mention of a "Canada Medal of Honor" or a "Canadian Volunteer Medal of Honor" outside of pages related to Warder herself. Searches of the website of the Canadian government fail to find any mention of such an award.  So, the question remains as to who actually awarded her this medal.  WikiDan61 ChatMe!ReadMe!! 13:46, 14 December 2011 (UTC)

The certificate is framed behind glass so, if necessary, I shall have to photograph it for you. Meanwhile I hope that these links will do: Contact Us Contact Us Volunteer Canada

353 Dalhousie Street, 3rd Floor Ottawa, ON, K1N 7G1

(613) 231-4371 1-800-670-0401 Fax: (613) 231-6725   http://www.volunteercanada.ca/ info@volunteer.ca

Regarding Tom Warder, shall I send photos of the newspaper cuttings that were shown in the article about him? Maluti (talk)
 * Since a search of the Canadian Volunteerism site for the term "Medal of Honour" or "Warder" comes up empty, it is not clear (and certainly not verifiable) that this organization awarded this honor. I don't doubt that some organization recognized her efforts, but my own lack of doubt is not the question here.  Wikipedia requires that facts be verifiable.  I don't make these rules.  WikiDan61 ChatMe!ReadMe!! 18:18, 14 December 2011 (UTC)

Maluti (talk)
 * 1) If I can photograph her certificate and also copy some of Tom Warder's citations,how do I get them to you? They  won't have a URL.
 * 2) NB. To a Canadian, the  red and white ribbon suspending the medal would immediately denote the country.
 * Sending the evidence to me will do no good. Wikipedia's verifiability policy requires the supporting documents to be publicly available for review by anyone.  That would mean that they are published documents available either online or from some archival source (either a bookstore or library).  Not necessarily every bookstore and library, but at least some public source, so that a determined researcher could, if they chose, do the necessary research to verify the facts.  (I don't want researchers coming to my home to verify the documents, and I don't think you do either.)
 * If you are naive enough to think that anyone with a craft store nearby could not create a medal suspended from a red and white ribbon, and that such a device could only be created by the Canadian government, then there is not much more I can say on the topic. I don't believe this is what Ms Warder has done, but the mere presences of a red and white ribbon is in no way verification of an award given by any branch of the Canadian government. (By the way, red and white could also represent Austria, Denmark, Hong Kong, Indonesia, Japan, Peru, Singapore, Switzerland, Tunisia or Turkey.)  WikiDan61 ChatMe!ReadMe!! 13:41, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

Found two documents and will also scan letters from Canadian members of Parliament if you want me to.
 * 1) During her collegiate career, Marie earned a Certificate in Journalism. She is a published author who spoke at the World Health Association in 1993. Marie recently received a Lifetime Achievement Award at the International BioIron Conference in Vancouver, Canada, 20 years after being awarded the Canadian Volunteer Medal of Honour and Certificate of Honour which read in part: “Through Marie’s research and most noted book, ‘The Bronze Killer’, she has educated doctors and the general public about the disease. As a result, Hemochromatosis is now recognized as Canada’s most common genetic disorder and routine blood tests for the disease will soon become standard diagnostic procedure.”  She is the author of 27 novels written in both English and Afrikaans, and three non-fiction books on the subject of Hemochromatosis.
 * 2) ANNOUNCEMENT IN THE VANCOUVER SUN, AUGUST 1992
 * A memorial service for Tom Warder -- the world's best-known hemochromatosis patient -- will be held at St. David's Anglican Church in Tsawwassen at 2 PM on Wednesday, August 12, 1992.


 * More than a month after his death in Johannesburg on July 9, during a farewell visit to South Africa, tributes continue to arrive at his Surrey home, and hemochromatosis offices in many countries, from people around the world; people who owe their lives and those of their families to a man who, for 25 years, courageously fought the ravages of the most common but little-known inherited disorder which results in an overload of iron in the body; a man who became the catalyst for the establishment of the Canadian Hemochromatosis society and many other similar organizations which now constitute the International Association of Hemochromatosis Societies.


 * For the past 12 years, as he helped his wife, Marie, to promote awareness of hemochromatosis, Tom appeared as what he termed "Exhibit A” on numerous television programs in Canada and overseas -- the most recent of which was the interview with Eve Savory on the CBC program, NewsWorld. He was interviewed more than once by Deb Hope of BCTV, and has been the subject of dozens of radio, newspaper and magazine interviews including an article in MacLean's in October 1986.  His story was told in the book, "The Bronze Killer," which was mentioned in the citation for the Canada Volunteer Medal of Honour presented to his wife in Ottawa last year.


 * Before his death, he was delighted to be among the patients to be treated at the recently- established Hemochromatosis Clinic, Shaughnessy site in Vancouver, which came into being as a result of the tireless campaigning on the part of his wife and family, and he lived to hear the Director-General off the Department of Genetic Services in South Africa, the country of his birth, announce the start of an intensive program of awareness.


 * Hemochromatosis -- ten times more common been well-known genetic diseases such as Cystic Fibrosis -- is the only inherited disorder of which the complications, which include diabetes, arthritis, cirrhosis of the liver, and a host of other involvements, are preventable by early diagnosis and treatment. Untreated it is fatal.  In Tom Warder's case, diagnosis came too late -- but, because of them, many others will be found in time.

Maluti (talk)
 * There is no doubt about Ms. Warder's credentials as a journalist, author, and activist. No further evidence of this is necessary, and the documents you propose would not pass muster as reliable sources anyway.  As for Tom Warder's notability, this has already been discussed by the community at WP:Articles for deletion/Tom Warder.  You are free to create a new article on him if you really feel that it is necessary, but if it does not contain better sources than the original article to indicate that Tom was notable outside of his role in the hemochromatosis society, then the article will likely be deleted again.  I can't say that for certain, and I would not want to squash your enthusiasm, so if you're determined, then go for it.  WikiDan61 ChatMe!ReadMe!! 13:41, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

His wife has written an excellent blog about him, he is the main character in The Bronze Killer which is still a bestseller after all these years, and his name is universally associated with Hemochromatosis in all countries where HHC is encountered, so I shall now bow out gracefully - until I get proof for you of the existence of a Canadian Medal of Honor. Have written to Ottawa. Maluti (talk)

I noticed that the current reference to the Lifetime Achievement Award (# 24)taken by my predecessor from the Delta Optimist is unsatisfactory, and have been fortunate to obtain a better one from the Canadian Hemochromatosis Society Newsletter. It is http://blog.toomuchiron.ca/chs/?p=51 but I do not know how to remove the incorrect one and replace it with this. I would very much appreciate your assistance. Maluti (talk)
 * The reference in question was unsatisfactory because the citation template was used incorrectly. That has been fixed.  A reference to a newspaper article is always preferred to a blog, as blogs are generally not considered reliable sources.  WikiDan61 ChatMe!ReadMe!! 15:43, 19 December 2011 (UTC)

Thank you! Maluti (talk)

Found newspaper details re Tom Warder's gyro brake, and have included them. Hope I did that correctly as his wife has tried so hard to get an article about him onto Wikipedia. How I wish I could somehow send newspaper cuttings to convince you guys. -- By the way, I have written to Ottawa to find the name of the department which will convince you of the authenticity of a volunteer medal of honor.I'd also like to add details og the LIfetime Achievement Award she received in August 2011 this to the article about Marie, but I don't know how to do that. Maluti (talk)
 * I admire your tenacity in this matter. However, the inclusion (or not) of an article on Tom Warder has already been discussed with the conclusion that he did not meet the criteria for inclusion at Wikipedia.  The article under discussion had already included notice of his involvement in the aircraft gyroscopic brake, an achievement that was not felt to be significant enough to merit inclusion.  (Mostly because, other than the single article that you have referenced, there appears to be no note taken of Mr Warder's involvement, nor even much note take of the use of gyroscopic brakes in the aircraft industry at all.)  I understand Marie Warder's desire to see her husband's article at Wikipedia, but Wikipedia is not a memorial site or other such service to allow Ms Warder to see her husband suitably remembered.  I note that she has several webpages at her disposal for that purpose.  As for the lifetime achievement award, that is already suitably documented at Marie Warder's page.  WikiDan61 ChatMe!ReadMe!! 13:16, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

What prompted me to post additional info were the following: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Tom_Warder Create the page "Tom Warder" on this wiki! Maluti (talk)
 * Yes, there are image files remaining from the deleted Tom Warder article (and some are used in the Marie Warder article, I believe). This does not mean that Tom merits a Wikipedia article.  WikiDan61 ChatMe!ReadMe!! 17:33, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

Herewith a link to the invitation to submit info: http://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Search&redirs=1&profile=default&search=Tom+Warder&limit=50&offset=0 Maluti (talk)
 * That is a standard message from the Wikimedia software in response to a failed search. You searched for the "Tom Warder" page on commmons.wikimedia.org, and that search failed, so you were invited to create said page.  It is not clear that such a creation would have any value -- you want to create an encyclopedia article about Tom, and that would be done at en.wikipedia.org, not at commons.wikimedia.org.  However, if you do create the Tom Warder page here at en.wikipedia.org, it will almost certainly face a deletion discussion, since a page about Tom has already been deleted following a deletion discussion.  Since Tom is deceased, it is unlikely that he is any more notable now then he was when the first page was deleted.  WikiDan61 ChatMe!ReadMe!! 19:40, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

Thank you for your patience. I'm happy now because I know that I -- and other admirers --have done as much as I could for my friend, so I shall leave you in peace..

Link help
How do I link Ficksburg News in Marie's article to the mention of it in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ficksburg ? Maluti (talk) 20:57, 30 January 2012 (UTC) Maluti (talk) 21:50, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
 * I don't know that such a link would be very useful. If there were an article on the Ficksburg News on Wikipedia, adding that link might be helpful, so readers could get an idea of what sort of newspaper Ms Warder wrote for, but since there is scant information about the publication in the Ficksburg article, there is really little point in creating the link.  If you have you heart set on doing so, the syntax would be this:
 * What this snippet does is to link to the Media heading of the Ficksburg article, with the link text reading Ficksburg News. Hope this helps.  WikiDan61 ChatMe!ReadMe!! 21:59, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
 * What this snippet does is to link to the Media heading of the Ficksburg article, with the link text reading Ficksburg News. Hope this helps.  WikiDan61 ChatMe!ReadMe!! 21:59, 31 January 2012 (UTC)

Thank you. You'll be pleased to learn that I am now done with interfering with Wikipedia. You have been most patient

24.207.21.42 (talk) 23:34, 31 January 2012 (UTC)

Marie Warder as writer
Sorry! Promised to leave you in peace but a reader has just contacted me to point out an omission in the part about Marie having written 24 novels. That should read "24 novels and 3 non-fiction books on the subject of Hemochromatosis."

Maluti (talk) 21:30, 10 February 2012 (UTC)
 * When I was editing the article on Marie Warder, I considered her 24 novels as the sum of her "writing career" while the writings on hemochromatosis (The Bronze Killer as well as various pamphlets and articles) as part of her "activism" career, and so mentioned the writings in different parts of the article. The fact of the matter is that if Warder had never become an activist, her writing career would not have made her notable, so it really only requires mention in passing in this article.  (That is to say, Warder is notable as an activist, not as a novelist.)  WikiDan61 ChatMe!ReadMe!! 12:54, 11 February 2012 (UTC)

Okay. That's it for now. If I could have done one more thing, it would have been to link the Ficksburg News in this article to the mention of this newspaper in the article on Ficksburg. Have a great weekend!

Maluti (talk) 18:07, 11 February 2012 (UTC)

Thank you for your messages.

Maluti (talk) 21:08, 13 February 2012 (UTC)

Reverted
I reverted this series of edits to the Marie Warder page because they broke the templates that were in use and rendered the page unreadable. Clearly there was information that you were trying to add, but did not do so successfully. If you would like to enter the information here, I will see try to add it to her article myself. In the future, if you've seen that you've irreparably messed things up, please put the page back to the version before you got there rather than leaving the broken unreadable version behind for others to fix. WikiDan61 ChatMe!ReadMe!! 13:51, 14 February 2012 (UTC)

I am truly sorry. All I was trying to do was to supply a more complete list of her Afrikaans books. As it is, because they were written long ago and some having being donated to libraries, I could only find the following:


 * Klei-Voete (Feet of Clay) 1953
 * Samaritaan van die Sahara 1954
 * Deur Sonskyn en Skaduwee 1956
 * Stormwater 1957
 * Niemand so Blind 1959
 * Die Maatstok 1963

However, as I made such a mess of inserting only one title, I am scared to add this info. Maluti (talk) 19:49, 14 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Of these six titles (I formatted the list for readability), four are already listed on the Marie Warder page. I have added a fifth (Die Maatstok).  I can't find a listing for Klei-Voete at either Google Books or WorldCat, so until I can get verification, I won't add that one.  If you have a personal copy, and can look up the OCLC or ISBN number, that will help greatly.  WikiDan61 ChatMe!ReadMe!! 20:35, 14 February 2012 (UTC)

After a search I found this on Amazon (among medical books if you can believe it!) Binding: Hardcover Label: Die Goeie Hoop Uitgewers Manufacturer: Die Goeie Hoop Uitgewers Publication Date: 1953 Publisher: Die Goeie Hoop Uitgewers Studio: Die Goeie Hoop Uitgewers

But it seems that there were no ISBNs in South Africa in those days. I have a personal copy (which is why I know it exists, and there isn't an ISBN in that, either. Thanks for undoing the mess I made! Happy Valentine's!

Maluti (talk) 22:33, 14 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Done. WikiDan61 ChatMe!ReadMe!! 22:42, 14 February 2012 (UTC)

Thank Goodness! I was just about to write to Rhodes University in Grahamstown, South Africa, and now you have saved me the trouble! Thanks for your patience and all your help!

24.207.21.42 (talk) 04:10, 15 February 2012 (UTC)

Re: Chondrocalcinosis is most commonly found in patients with iron overload, both Homozygotes(2 genes) and Heterozygotes ("carriers" of only one gene.)It is ironic that a well-known victim of the latter happens to be Marie Warder - the Hemochromatosis activist -  whose name is almost  synonymous with the disease. She is now crippled by the disorder, to the extent that she has to use a voice-recognition device in order to carry on on her work as a novelist. Maluti (talk) 18:26, 17 April 2012 (UTC)

Kempton Park
I am wondering why in the Marie Warder page there is a reference to the school -- Windsor House Academy -- in Kempton Park, SA, but there is no link to that in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kempton Park. Maluti (talk) 01:25, 18 May 2012 (UTC) Maluti (talk) 01:27, 18 May 2012 (UTC)

The following info should be added to "Schools" in Kempton Park. "...and Windsor House Academy, a private, dual-medium school founded by Marie Warder, the well-known novelist and Hemochromatosis activist." Maluti (talk) 17:47, 18 May 2012 (UTC)

Canadian Hemochromatosis Society
Hello ,

It seems to me that an article you worked on, Canadian Hemochromatosis Society, may be copied from http://www.toomuchiron.ca/about/history.php. It's entirely possible that I made a mistake, but I wanted to let you know because Wikipedia is strict about copying from other sites.

It's important that you edit the article and rewrite it in your own words, unless you're absolutely certain nothing in it is copied. If you're not sure how to fix the problem or have any questions, there are people at the help desk who are happy to assist you.

Thank you for helping build a free encyclopedia! MadmanBot (talk) 00:44, 29 September 2012 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Canadian Hemochromatosis Society


A tag has been placed on Canadian Hemochromatosis Society requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section G12 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the article or image appears to be a clear copyright infringement. For legal reasons, we cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or printed material, and as a consequence, your addition will most likely be deleted. You may use external websites as a source of information, but not as a source of sentences. This part is crucial: say it in your own words. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously and persistent violators will be blocked from editing.

If the external website or image belongs to you, and you want to allow Wikipedia to use the text or image — which means allowing other people to modify it — then you must verify that externally by one of the processes explained at Donating copyrighted materials. If you are not the owner of the external website or image but have permission from that owner, see Requesting copyright permission. You might want to look at Wikipedia's policies and guidelines for more details, or ask a question here.

If you think that the page was nominated in error, contest the nomination by clicking on the button labelled "Click here to contest this speedy deletion" in the speedy deletion tag. Doing so will take you to the talk page where you can explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. You can also visit the page's talk page directly to give your reasons, but be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be removed without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but do not hesitate to add information that is consistent with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. Thebestofall007 (talk) 00:56, 29 September 2012 (UTC)

Sorry I must be very dense but have had difficulty finding the "button." I had an email last night, from the CEO of the Canadian Hemochromatosis Society, who writes on behalf of the Board to say that they would be pleased to have the article on Wikipedia, just as it is, and that the elimination of it would be "regrettable."

Maluti (talk) 17:01, 29 September 2012 (UTC) As I have already stated, I wrote the page "About the Canadian Hemochromatosis Society," myself, and I have now uploaded it to Wikipedia simply because it is easier for people to find the info. Eg., The South African Society, among others, begins with the word "Hemochromatosis" etc. - which is easy for those who are looking for info - whereas there are a multitude of links to "Canadian." Maluti (talk) 01:13, 29 September 2012 (UTC)