User talk:Manifestation

Welcome to my talk page! Feel free to leave me a message.

Note: before messaging me, you may want to check my edits to see if I have been active recently. If you want my help, but I'm not around, and you're unsure where else to ask, The Teahouse may be a good place to go. You can also look at the Questions page.

Archives:
 * 22:50, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
 * 02:29, 9 October 2012 (UTC)
 * 00:24, 29 November 2022 (UTC)

Note
This page was last archived on 27 June 2023. To see archived posts, see the links above. - Manifestation (talk) 07:49, 27 June 2023 (UTC)

Revdeletion needed
A vandal put someone's phone number in this edit: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Pok%C3%A9mon&curid=8570634&diff=1164404579&oldid=1163071171

Can someone revdelete it? Thanks! -- Manifestation (talk) 09:57, 9 July 2023 (UTC)


 * ✅. PhilKnight (talk) 12:51, 9 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Great! :-) Manifestation (talk) 13:05, 9 July 2023 (UTC)

Reliability of WP:INVESTOPEDIA over at RSP
Hello Manifestation - I just read through the most recent discussion on the reliability of Investopedia, which you started a few months ago, and I'm not sure you assessed the consensus rightly. By my reading of the discussion, it seems most people believed it's a Level 2/Yellow/"No Consensus" source.

I counted 7 editors whose opinions seemed to align with Yellow-level, with some strong arguments from yourself, PaulT2022, and Mx. Granger; and 4 editors who seemed to align with Red-level/"Generally unreliable", with the strongest argument coming from DFlhb. Even aside from the vote count, I noticed 2 problems in the end:
 * 1) Your last attempt to close the discussion garnered responses from ONLY "Red-level" supporters
 * 2) It seems like the criteria for judging sources was misapplied. The general feel I got from the discussion was that Investopedia was generally okay, but with potentially large and numerous gaps and inaccuracies; also, that it's always preferred to find a better secondary source, but NOT to the point of preferring not to use Investopedia at all. These criteria align better with the "yellow" level than the "red" level, as they're described at WP:RSP.

All that to say - I personally think Investopedia should be listed as a "No consensus, unclear, or additional considerations apply" source (similar to other tertiary sources, like WP:BRITANNICA). The discussion you led got a good amount of attention, and it was the best attempt in a long while at getting a label on this source. But I'd hate to have that label continue to influence future assessments of this source, since I think that discussion went in a different way.

Do you think it's worth bringing up again at WP:RSN? I'd propose a yellow-level designation with text, briefly mention my assessment of the previous discussion as justification, and probably ping all the editors that previously contributed. PhotogenicScientist (talk) 16:42, 27 July 2023 (UTC)


 * Dear . Thank you for your message.
 * I think your best bet would be to start a Request for Comment, which several sources have received over the years, but not Investopedia.
 * I don't believe I assessed the consensus wrongly. If anything, I misassessed my own judgement. Looking back at it now, my arguments weren't very strong.
 * I'd still argue that Investopedia could be useful. The main problem is that it's tertiary. In other words, it's a source that uses info from other sources. So you might as well cite *those* sources. On top of that, there are accuracy concerns, notwithstanding the fact that the site has a review board and appears to welcome corrections (see here, search for "Corrections"). Cheers, Manifestation (talk) 17:44, 27 July 2023 (UTC)

Poke Sources
I don' know if you are aware but I am here to inform you that your site have encountered some internal server errors. Wingwatchers (talk) 04:59, 23 September 2023 (UTC)


 * Miraheze is a great free and ad-free wiki-hosting service which I have been using in the past to host my various projects of interests although I was overwhelmed by the loneliness and stresses of creating these articles. Wingwatchers (talk) 05:05, 23 September 2023 (UTC)
 * @Wingwatchers - Fixed. Thank you, and thanks for advising Miraheze. I'll check it out. - Manifestation (talk) 09:50, 23 September 2023 (UTC)

Length of the Pokémon article
After much trimming, I believed I have refined my additions to reflect only the most essential development history details discussing how the games have evolved over the years and established connections between them to show how they indirectly contributed to the development of Pokemon as a whole. I hope you don't believe otherwise. Wingwatchers (talk) 03:43, 2 October 2023 (UTC)


 * I replied on your talk page. See here. - Manifestation (talk) 17:58, 2 October 2023 (UTC)

Ape, Inc.
I am here to inform you that I have removed the sentence "Ape, Inc. is not credited on the final product." from the History section because I am unable to find a reliable source for it. Wingwatchers (talk) 14:58, 4 October 2023 (UTC)


 * And also "Over the next three years, GF developed four more games: Magical Tarurūto-kun (1992), Mario & Wario (1993), Nontan to Issho: KuruKuru Puzzle, and Pulseman (both 1994)." I don't see how it contributes to anything, and I am also unable to source this. Wingwatchers (talk) 15:00, 4 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Does absolutely everything needs to be sourced? Can't the product(s) itself be the source?
 * I believe the phrase "Ape, Inc. is not credited on the final product" is important. To the best of my knowledge, it is currently not publicly known what Ape did on Pokemon, if anything. Maybe they did nothing. But it is also possible that Ape, Inc. was a so-called ghost developer for Pokemon. Ghost development has a long history in Japan, going back to the 1980s (see here: Video game development). Game Freak's first game, Quinty, was also partly created by an unidentified ghost developer.
 * I found only two quotes by Tajiri-san regarding Ape's role. I was unable to establish to what extent they were involved. What I do know is that, over the years, people have noticed a number of similarities between Pokemon and EarthBound, such as Mewtwo resembling Giygas. See here, here, and here for more information.
 * My best bet is that Ape handed them some things along the way, especially at the very beginning in 1990. At that point, Ape had already developed one RPG: Mother. Game Freak had never developed an RPG, so it makes sense that Ape would help them out. On the other hand, Pokemon initially started out as a much smaller, compact game, made on a small budget. So maybe Ape's assistance was in fact quite limited... or did not even happen?
 * Bottom line is: we don't know. The only thing we know is that Ape is not credited on the final product. That we know for sure. This statement does not need to be sourced. It can be hard to prove a negative, but if you look at the box, the cartridge, the title screen, and the credits, you won't see the name "APE" appear anywhere.
 * - Manifestation (talk) 19:37, 4 October 2023 (UTC)
 * As for the part about the other titles Game Freak developed: I agree that it can go. I just deleted that part. Cheers, Manifestation (talk) 19:42, 4 October 2023 (UTC)

ArbCom 2023 Elections voter message
 Hello! Voting in the 2023 Arbitration Committee elections is now open until 23:59 (UTC) on. All eligible users are allowed to vote. Users with alternate accounts may only vote once.

The Arbitration Committee is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the Wikipedia arbitration process. It has the authority to impose binding solutions to disputes between editors, primarily for serious conduct disputes the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the authority to impose site bans, topic bans, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The arbitration policy describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail.

If you wish to participate in the 2023 election, please review the candidates and submit your choices on the voting page. If you no longer wish to receive these messages, you may add to your user talk page. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 00:25, 28 November 2023 (UTC)

Wikitext table sorting
I noticed that you recently sorted the Wikitext of List of burial places of classical musicians by name. Which tool did you use? Or did you do it manually? -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 02:53, 25 December 2023 (UTC)


 * I used Notepad++ and Excel. I copy-pasted the code in Notepad++, minus the headers. Then, I replaced all "|-" with "~|-", then "\r|" with "|", and finally "~|-" with "|-".  is a carriage return. By doing so, each table row has one line.
 * After that, I copy-pasted all lines in Excel, in the second column, one cell per line. In the first column, I used a formula to extract the Last Name from the second column. Then I sorted everything, copy-pasted it all back into Notepad++, did the replacing backwards, and presto!!
 * To be honest: it did took me a few attempts. Maybe there's an easier way to do it, but I couldn't find anything on google or Mediawiki.org. - Manifestation (talk) 08:15, 25 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you for that explanation. I've tried my hand at wikitable manipulation some time ago using Excel and Windows Script, but only for cases where a whole table row was in one line. Parsing a multiline wikitable row for sorting or other manipulation is beyond me. Cheers, Michael Bednarek (talk) 12:01, 25 December 2023 (UTC)
 * I understand, and in a perfect world, this would be a functionality within the Visual Editor. But it likely would be used only seldomly, which is why it was not implemented I guess. I also tried some of the off-site table editors listed here, but none could sort. - Manifestation (talk) 13:26, 25 December 2023 (UTC)

User:Manifestation/Wikiarchaeologist
Hey Manifestation :) I recently created, and I was wondering if you'd mind if I edited this userbox to include the new user category. All the best, &zwj;—&zwj;a smart kitten[ meow] 03:18, 26 January 2024 (UTC)


 * Not at all! Go ahead. Cheers, Manifestation (talk) 11:37, 26 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Thanks! I've done that. I've also added the userbox page itself to - I hope that's okay, but feel free to revert if not. Best, &zwj;—&zwj;a smart kitten[ meow] 19:16, 26 January 2024 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for March 24
An automated process has detected that you recently added links to disambiguation pages.
 * List of mental disorders in the DSM-IV and DSM-IV-TR
 * added a link pointing to Identity problem
 * List of mental disorders in the DSM-IV and DSM-IV-TR (alphabetical)
 * added a link pointing to Pica

(Opt-out instructions.) --DPL bot (talk) 18:10, 24 March 2024 (UTC)


 * Yes check.svg Done . Thanks, Manifestation (talk) 18:16, 24 March 2024 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for April 1
An automated process has detected that when you recently edited Pokémon, you added links pointing to the disambiguation pages Niantic and Detective Pikachu.

(Opt-out instructions.) --DPL bot (talk) 06:09, 1 April 2024 (UTC)


 * Yes check.svg Done . - Manifestation (talk) 19:52, 1 April 2024 (UTC)

Verywell
Boy, WP:MEDRS really gets treated like the boogeyman around here, huh? Seems like nobody wants to engage with questions of it at all. There's been 4 other whitelist requests made and answered in the 5 days since I made mine. PhotogenicScientist (talk) 13:21, 10 April 2024 (UTC)


 * You seem to have hit a similar wall to the one I hit four years ago. The people who don't like Verywell, or any blacklisted site, will stonewall the discussion, or simply not react at all. Other people don't care, so the issue remains deadlocked.
 * For one, the spam lists should be renamed, because it contains more than just spam sites.
 * As for Verywell... I guess we could fill an RfC. But I honestly think it's absurd that it would take an RfC to correct something this simple. - Manifestation (talk) 18:54, 10 April 2024 (UTC)
 * or simply not react at all seems to be the main problem. I'm trying to wait 2 days in between requests for movement, since I get this is a volunteer project, and people are busy, and/or simply don't care.
 * But COME ON - it shouldn't take 5+ days to get approval to drop a good citation into an article. That's prohibitively long to be of any use. I'm going to see how the whitelist request plays out before thinking of what to do next. PhotogenicScientist (talk) 21:43, 10 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Beetstra and JzG (I won't link them because I don't want to attract their attention) have ignored you for now, but if you become 'difficult', they will use all tricks in the book to frustrate you and keep Verywell off this site. I know, because it happened to me.
 * If Verywell is banlisted because it's popular press, then all popular press should be banlisted, and every single url should be manually approved by an admin. Such 'red tape' would go against Wikipedia's culture, and is obviously a very bad idea.
 * A while ago, I rewrote the article Pokémon from scratch. In doing so, I had to use a few questionable sources, including one by the Daily Mail, a source that is deprecated on Wikipedia, but not on the blacklist. I was also forced to cite a self-published essay. Just four days ago, I could finally replace said essay with a better source I found: an NPR audio fragment I had obtained (and uploaded). I like Wikipedia because it gives me a lot of freedom. If I had to gain official approval for every dubious link I wish to use, I would go nuts!
 * So yes, I sympathize with you. You did well on the Myolysis page. Good article! It sucks that you've now hit this bureaucratic hurdle... and for what? 😔 - Manifestation (talk) 17:46, 11 April 2024 (UTC)

Look, that whitelist thread has been beyond frustrating - seems most all the admins responding are running dangerously low on either time or caring, based on the number of unanswered open threads there that end with me requesting clarification or asking a question grounded in policy. But WP:PA is also a policy. You're not going to get anywhere by insulting people. Full stop. Don't care if you're in the right or not. The moment you insult someone, you've lost them, likely forever. And in a project that requires consensus, that isn't going to fly.

Nobody is forced to engage in a whitelist request at all, even if the link would benefit the project. Even if it's the right thing to do, it doesn't mean it's going to happen. That's just how this project is. Because everyone here is a volunteer, and nobody is being paid to care. Since others here can really easily not care about you or what you would like to see added to this project, my preference is to care very little about this project. Edit where I feel like in my free time, and when something pisses me off, leave it. As if any of us can change the culture around here. What am I, an admin? PhotogenicScientist (talk) 20:58, 24 April 2024 (UTC)


 * You seem like an intelligent person, with a critical mind. Clearly, you have a lot more patience than I have. Take care, Manifestation (talk) 16:46, 25 April 2024 (UTC)

April 2024
Hello, I'm Swatjester. I noticed that you made a comment on the page MediaWiki_talk:Spam-whitelist that didn't seem very civil, so it may have been removed. Wikipedia is built on collaboration, so it's one of our core principles to interact with one another in a polite and respectful manner. If you have any questions, you can leave me a message on my talk page. Thank you. ⇒  SWAT Jester   Shoot Blues, Tell VileRat! 22:48, 20 April 2024 (UTC)


 * Why is Verywell banned? Why isn't it unbanned? - Manifestation (talk) 09:03, 21 April 2024 (UTC)
 * I wasn't involved with the banning, and I'm not involved in the unbanning either; so I'll appreciate you not dragging me into a content dispute simply because I gave you a warning for violating the no personal attacks policy. ⇒  SWAT Jester   Shoot Blues, Tell VileRat! 14:59, 21 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Fyi, Swatjester, I have disengaged from the discussion. I will no longer comment there, since every little thing I say falls on deaf ears.
 * Also, I have a question. You say I shouldn't drag you into this. But you did send me a civility warning, so you involved yourself into this. Isn't that a bit unfair? Do you even know what this is about?
 * You probably aren't gonna read it, because it's a lot of text. But the background of the dispute is in here: Spam-blacklist, April '20; RSN, April '20; Spam-blacklist, May '20; ANI, May '20.
 * If someone reads through all of that, and *still* has the audacity to say that *I* am in fact the problem, then that person is stupid. I honestly don't know how else to describe it. - Manifestation (talk) 16:49, 25 April 2024 (UTC)
 * I gave you a warning because you violated our policy on civility. It's not an option, you are required to abide by policy while you are here. Your content dispute has absolutely nothing to do with that -- there is no dispute that would allow you to call another editor here "stupid". Additionally, demanding that I involve myself in your content dispute, is not going to work. As I told you the first time, I'm here solely in an administrative capacity to enforce our policies against personal attacks. I asked you politely not to do the thing that you just did. I also asked you politely not to call users stupid, and here you are doing it again. And you're also doing it on other people's talk pages. So let me be very, explicitly clear: if you call another user "stupid", a "moron", or violate any of our policies further, you're going to be blocked from editing. If you need to take some time to read up on what those policies are, I highly recommend you do so before continuing to edit (and if I were you, I'd start with WP:AGF after you get through WP:NPA and WP:CIVIL), but given that you've had an account since 2006 with several thousand edits, it is reasonable to assume that you've already had sufficient time to do so. Clear? ⇒   SWAT Jester   Shoot Blues, Tell VileRat! 17:55, 25 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Threatening me isn't going to convince me of anything, Swatjester. Quite the opposite. This shows the indifference certain Wikipedians have towards this project. You do not care about why I was angry in the first place. You just robotically enforcing some policy. Well, I don't care about rules. I care about doing what's RIGHT. I put the quality of Wikipedia first.
 * And if you think I'm a miserable person with a nasty temper, you are very wrong. I am actually an HSP, and quite patient. However, if I *repeatedly* point something out to someone, and they *repeatedly* refuse to listen to me, I will eventually say it like it is. Especially when that person is an administrator who just blatantly lies to me, and everyone else stands and watches. I have a no-BS-approach, and I try to be as honest as I reasonably can. - Manifestation (talk) 18:28, 25 April 2024 (UTC)

I mean, I don't know what else to say -- if you're announcing that you're intending to continue to make personal attacks at others, refusing to abide by the civility policy, and stating that you have no intention of following our rules, then you're clearly and unequivocally announcing that you are not here to constructively edit and intend to disrupt the project further in the future; as such, to protect the project you're being blocked from editing. It's a shame, because PhotogenicScientist tried to warn you about the route you're choosing; but you solely brought this on yourself. Nobody else here is to blame for your choices. ⇒  SWAT Jester   Shoot Blues, Tell VileRat! 19:57, 25 April 2024 (UTC)

 You have been blocked from editing for a period of 1 week for a refusal to abide by Wikipedia policies on civility and avoiding personal attacks. Once the block has expired, you are welcome to make useful contributions. If you think there are good reasons for being unblocked, please review Wikipedia's guide to appealing blocks, then add the following text to the bottom of your talk page:. ⇒  SWAT Jester   Shoot Blues, Tell VileRat! 20:02, 25 April 2024 (UTC)


 * Out of deference to the fact that you've been an editor here for long enough to know better, I'm going to assume good faith and give you the benefit of the doubt that this is a momentary lapse in judgment and that you're lashing out in anger, rather than taking you at your explicit word that you don't care about following the rules; as being WP:NOTHERE is typically an indefinite block; as such you're only being blocked for 1-week, during which time you should cool-off and take the time to read and deeply understand our policies, particularly WP:CIVIL and WP:AGF. If this behavior continues, however, as you've received multiple explicit warnings to stop, the next one will be indefinite. ⇒   SWAT Jester   Shoot Blues, Tell VileRat! 20:08, 25 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Wow, this is the most abusive thing someone has ever done to me on this website. Do you get a rise out of this? Treating people this horrible?
 * I won't accept this. I don't care what happens to me, or this account. But I do care what happens to Wikipedia. I will get the Verywell sites unbanned. Even if it's the last thing I do. Mark my words. - Manifestation (talk) 08:37, 26 April 2024 (UTC)

"Beetstra thanked you for your edit"
"Beetstra thanked you for your edit on User talk:Manifestation – (6h)"

Hey ! How ya doing man?? Remember how you dragged me to ANI four years ago, because you didn't want to unban Verywell? And remember that I, in that ANI thread, pointed out a number of users who also tried to use Verywell? One of them was. You then asked her if she could perhaps get the link whitelisted.

Well, guess what? One user,, actually did request a whitelisting. This resulted in a eye-watering amount of WikiBureaucracy (here and here), which has lasted for about a month now and is currently still ongoing. And that's just one link. - Manifestation (talk) 16:25, 29 April 2024 (UTC)
 * What am I doing? You decide to talk about me behind my and user:JzG back.  And I came here when I was pinged multiple times in the whitelist request to see what discussions were going on and how to respond (if at all), but you made that decision easy.  Good luck. Dirk Beetstra T  C 04:18, 1 May 2024 (UTC)

I'm free!
Hurray! And my block expired shortly before Liberation Day! While I was serving my sentence, I still contributed to Wikipedia, kind of. I just wrote my content in Notepad. Now that I'm unblocked, I can post it. Cheers, Manifestation (talk) 16:20, 4 May 2024 (UTC)

You can't have your cake and eat it
I reverted you, for a very simple reason: it's a huge amount of unencyclopedic and unverified stuff. You can't even be sure of its accuracy, and that comes before encyclopedic noteworthiness. Look at this: "There is no exact equivalent of this proverb in the Dutch language, but a similar phrase is Kiezen of delen". Wat een gelul! Why is that similar? And the English "translation" linked to Divide and choose, which is something else altogether. Sure, we count on Wikipedia to be improved, but this is all Wiktionary stuff in the first place. Drmies (talk) 13:58, 2 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Wikipedia has many articles on expressions. It would be nice if they describe how various cultures have various idioms to describe the same feelings.
 * Anyway... if you want impose your ultra-deletionist, astronomically high quality demands, then go ahead. You do you.
 * And if you think that Kiezen of delen is gelul, then you could have just removed that one sentence, instead of pulling a huge chunk out of the article. - Manifestation (talk) 18:05, 3 July 2024 (UTC)