User talk:MarcusBritish/SSSIs

Barnstar incentive
These barnstars may be awarded from myself to anyone who makes a substantial* effort to update one or more of the incomplete SSSI lists from MarcusBritish/SSSIs, in appreciation. Simply leave a message below stating your intention when you begin, advising which list as the sub-heading, so other people don't conflict with your edits, and I can keep track. Leave another message when you're all done.

* Completing articles with no tables or data – basic lists – are in need of substantial input to complete.

Cheers, Ma&reg;&copy; usBriti sh  [talk] 18:59, 15 September 2011 (UTC)


 * Issued barnstars
 * on 27 September 2011 for List of Sites of Special Scientific Interest in Cornwall.
 * on 1 December 2011 for List of Sites of Special Scientific Interest in Buckinghamshire.
 * on 3 December 2011 for List of Sites of Special Scientific Interest in Greater London.
 * on 3 December 2011 for List of Sites of Special Scientific Interest in Cornwall.
 * on 18 December 2011 for List of Sites of Special Scientific Interest in Oxfordshire.
 * on 9 August 2012 for List of Sites of Special Scientific Interest in Gloucestershire.
 * on 9 August 2012 for List of Sites of Special Scientific Interest in Derbyshire.
 * on 13 August 2012 for List of Sites of Special Scientific Interest in Nottinghamshire, Lincolnshire and Leicestershire.

Cornwall
I've made a start on the Cornwall page using the Somerset page as an example. Will take some time though Jowaninpensans (talk) 16:09, 12 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Yeah, it's a biggy - I did the North Yorkshire table, and it took a fair few hours over several days. If you know how to use regex in something like Notepad++ you can save hours, literally, and get most parts done in bulk really quickly. The tedious bit is going back and forth from the Natural England to get the data for each row. Cheers, Ma&reg;&copy; usBriti sh  [talk]''' 16:33, 12 August 2011 (UTC)

Various
Thanks very much for the barnstar. It is always good when my work is appreciated.

I had a look at Antrim, and I see that it only lists the first site in the area. I have added links to the citation and map for this site, and changed 'complete' to 'nay'.

I do not understand what 'small checks' means. Can you advise?

The headings 'naturalengland map links' is not correct for Scotland etc and might be considered offensive by some people. Would it be better to change it to just 'map links'? Dudley Miles (talk) 22:39, 1 December 2011 (UTC)


 * No worries, and thanks for your efforts. I know it's tedious work to create those lengthy tables, having done North Yorkshire myself some time ago. A lot of dull back-and-forth copy/paste work required, but it's nice when people do their local SSSIs as seems to be the case for a few, as it's a more dedicated approach; local pride or interest makes it feel worthwhile. Some of these large non-tabular lists are worth a barnstar for the hours spent over days needed to enter the data.
 * Basically, is the larger size tick icon which looks very cumbersome in wikitables, so I changed them all to use the smaller  tick icon which looks neater all round and gives all the SSSI articles a smart uniform look. I know they won't be the most read things on Wiki, but that doesn't mean they can't be presentable, albeit de facto, appearance.
 * The heading in the tables were just copy/pasted from the first when I put it together. Just refers to the site's name, rather than any national identity. I don't think they cover N.Ireland either. Don't worry though, the page is not a published article in mainspace, just a sort of userpage checklist which doesn't need to be cited, NPOV, etc but anyone is welcome to use, as a sort of sub-project page which I don't own, run or lead, I just monitor for updates (infrequently) and copy-edit SSSI lists to the standard, so that it's all hunky-dory; if anyone ever felt genuinely offended by my using a website name I think it would be petty, given the triviality and non-political nature of the list. If you feel that changing it is important though, please feel free.
 * Ma&reg;&copy; usBriti sh  &#91;Chat &bull; RFF] 23:10, 1 December 2011 (UTC)

Northern Ireland ASSIs
All six Northern Ireland ASSIs have been created, although only in List format at present as a leg up, which seems better than nothing at all.

Anyone interested in converting any of these to wikitable format, please see some of the completed English SSSI examples, to get table headings from. Official ASSI data can be found at http://www.doeni.gov.uk/niea/protected_areas_home/new_assi_landing_page.htm. Barnstar incentive applies to anyone who contributes a major effort in converting any of these. Just leave a new section below detailing your intention to convert a list, and drop me a message when you're done.

Thanks, Ma&reg;&copy; usBriti sh  &#91;Chat &bull; RFF] 23:56, 1 December 2011 (UTC)

Essex
still neeeds a bit of works, and have had trouble finding out about two of the Basildon sites.Slatersteven (talk) 15:41, 2 December 2011 (UTC)
 * No, it needs a lot of work for a list that long. But before you go any further.. you're using the wrong table. That's an ASSI table for N.Irish sites, not English SSSI sites, which uses different (fewer) headings and data. It's also easier to go straight down the list from A to Z than dot about picking the odd one, or you lose track of the table's logic. And if you know regex, it's easier to create using Notepad++ using regex tricks to "bulk" edit certain things. Then you just stick in the data from naturalengland's site over a few hours/days. Ma&reg;&copy; usBriti sh  &#91;Chat &bull; RFF] 16:05, 2 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Note: Table reformatted. Map id is the same as citation id on the Natural England site.


 * Example
 * Norsey Wood
 * Citation: http://www.sssi.naturalengland.org.uk/citation/citation_photo/1001833.pdf
 * Map: http://www.english-nature.org.uk/citation/citation_photo/1001833.pdf
 * So id = 1001833. Don't even have to search for the map link, every map/citation URL is exactly the same. Just copy/paste them, mouseover the citation link on NE site, check the ID, type it into both links. Make sure the .pdf extension is not missing. Open the PDF, enter the details, area, date, type, etc. Done.

Ma<font color="#CC0000">&reg;&copy; usBr<font color="#CC0000">iti sh  &#91;Chat &bull; RFF] 05:06, 3 December 2011 (UTC)
 * OKSlatersteven (talk) 13:12, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

Regex
I am thinking of having a go at Oxfordshire - as I will be spending Christmas there - and I have installed Notepad++ and had a look at info on Regex. I have used Ctrl-C and Ctrl-V for repeated data, and I am not clear what advantage Regex has over this. Is it worth the effort of learning it and if so can you point to a source for it? Thanks for any help. Dudley Miles (talk) 13:05, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

Hi,

Regex can do bulk jobs, by replacing matching data, using a sort of coding used in the Find/Replace function. It's not a language in itself, more a type of logic. Probably all programming, like C++, PHP, Java, Perl, etc uses it in some form for handling form and database tasks. It takes a bit of getting used to, but can then be used to fix dozens of things fast. Here's a link to use for reference: http://www.cheatography.com/davechild/cheat-sheets/regular-expressions/. I advise getting the PDF version so that you have a personal copy, in case the site ever goes offline: http://www.addedbytes.com/cheat-sheets/regular-expressions-cheat-sheet/. If you want a book, then you don't need anything pricey for simple Wiki regex edits. I have http://www.amazon.co.uk/Regular-Expression-Pocket-Reference-Expressions/dp/0596514271/ from when I learned PHP, which is only about £5, very slim (pocket size) and you need only read about a dozen pages in all, as the rest is reference chapters relating to all the various programming languages. The PHP chapter seems to work okay for Notepad++, though regex has similar methods in all languages and only tends to differ due to syntax across the languages, rather than logic.

http://www.slideshare.net/anjesh/the-power-of-regular-expression-use-in-notepad/ looks to be a short, 18 page, example, probably from some Powerpoint presentation someone once made. Might give you a Regex 101 to get started.

You'll always need to quickly check that each regex task has performed correctly, via a quick Preview, before saving the page, naturally. But it is fairly easy to learn and can save a lot of time, depending what you're doing.

If you want some examples, in a wiki sense that you can relate to, I don't mind typing a few. Just let me know.

Cheers, <font color="#003399">Ma<font color="#CC0000">&reg;&copy; usBr<font color="#CC0000">iti sh  &#91;Chat &bull; RFF] 17:38, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for the advice. I have ordered the book. Dudley Miles (talk) 11:17, 4 December 2011 (UTC)

Area converter
http://www.thecalculatorsite.com/conversions/area/hectares-to-acres.php is useful for anyone looking to fill in the gaps where citation sheets only provide one area value; converting is easily done with this tool. It can be set to do the rounding to 1dp for you, and even has a copy to clipboard option, so you can just return to your browser/editor and paste it, no faffing! <font color="#003399">Ma<font color="#CC0000">&reg;&copy; usBr<font color="#CC0000">iti sh  &#91;Chat &bull; RFF] 23:44, 3 December 2011 (UTC)


 * An alternative which I find easier is to have a calculator to hand with the memory set to 2.47. Multiplying this by the number of hectares gives the acres. Dudley Miles (talk) 18:21, 8 December 2011 (UTC)
 * That should work also, and multiply by 0.40 when only acres are given to get hectares. Given that whoever started these SSSI articles with only 1dp, would have preferred 2dp personally, that should give a close enough area. <font color="#003399">Ma<font color="#CC0000">&reg;&copy; usBr<font color="#CC0000">iti sh  &#91;Chat &bull; RFF] 21:33, 8 December 2011 (UTC)

Welsh SSSIs
The current SSSI articles for Wales, fortunately only lists, are out-of-date. Wales now has 22 counties, as found at Category:Principal areas of Wales, whereas the current lists appear to be based on Category:Historic counties of Wales. All Welsh SSSI lists can be found at: http://www.ccw.gov.uk sites including maps and citation sheets. Thanks, <font color="#003399">Ma<font color="#CC0000">&reg;&copy; usBr<font color="#CC0000">iti sh  &#91;Chat &bull; RFF] 00:48, 4 December 2011 (UTC)


 * Ah, great, I was looking for the citation sheets of the Welsh SSSIs. I'll start some articles for Monmouthshire SSSIs as part of the MonmouthpediA project. What are we doing about the Welsh lists now? Should we start new ones with the new county boundaries? As they seem to be the new AoS. Cheers, Zangar (talk) 14:05, 17 February 2012 (UTC)


 * Hmm.. there are currently 12 Welsh SSSI articles, which have fortunately not developed beyond basic bullet lists. I think it would be worth creating the 22 new articles as "one task" and pasting the SSSI lists on each from the site linked above, that't not more than a 20 minute job, really. Then simply #REDIRECT the 12 "out of date" articles to the new ones, with each "old" county directing to the most appropriate "new" county, which may take a while unless the editor who does those is familiar with Welsh geography, in which case it may only be a 5 minute job. That should at least get the ball rolling, and from there I will create a new Welsh SSSIs table on my related reference page for those 22, and it's a free for all to anyone wishing to convert them from lists to complete data tables, as with everything else that needs updating. I think that would be the best way forward, as it would be unwise to create 1 or 2 "new" county pages, without the full 22 they would be disjointed and it may cause confusion to anyone trying to find and organise them at a later date. <font color="#001C56">Ma<font color="#B40000">&reg;&copy; usBr<font color="#B40000">iti sh &#91;chat] 14:49, 17 February 2012 (UTC)


 * That seems a sensible option; to get the lists sorted altogether first and then tackle the individual SSSIs. (I just wanted to check we were going to do new lists.) I've been living in Wales for 8 years now, so I'm pretty familiar with the geography and can organise the redirects (also should be able to work it out from the website generated lists), but I'll add a small history section stating which of the old AoS were merged into these new ones etc, just to help people navigate. It's funny how Natural England has kept to the 1970s boundaries, but the Welsh ones haven't. Cheers, Zangar (talk) 15:45, 17 February 2012 (UTC)


 * Thanks. When you're done, if you could post a list here of the 22 new article titles you create, and I'll use them to update the tables. Redirects will be at your discretion, I don't think anyone will complain, and you don't really need consensus as it's a non-controversial topic. Cheers, <font color="#001C56">Ma<font color="#B40000">&reg;&copy; usBr<font color="#B40000">iti sh &#91;chat] 15:51, 17 February 2012 (UTC)

Extra material relating to SSSIs

 * Site of Special Scientific Interest – uncited, no refs.
 * Area of Search – Incorrect areas?
 * List of Sites of Special Scientific Interest by Area of Search – not up to date.
 * List of ASSIs in Northern Ireland – not up to date (see Northern Irish ASSIs).
 * Template:SSSI AOS lists – up to date, except Wales (see Welsh SSSIs).
 * Site of Special Scientific Interest (Hong Kong) – not tabular.. possible?

<font color="#003399">Ma<font color="#CC0000">&reg;&copy; usBr<font color="#CC0000">iti sh  &#91;Chat &bull; RFF] 15:49, 18 December 2011 (UTC)

Short lists
Anyone looking for short lists to fill, as I realise that some of these can be extensive and take days, I have reformed a few fairly short lists into blank tables, all ready for data entry. Each has no more than 40 rows. A barnstar per list applies to anyone who fills them in. They are:


 * Tyne and Wear SSSIs
 * Bedfordshire SSSIs
 * West Yorkshire SSSIs

Cheers, <font color="#003399">Ma<font color="#CC0000">&reg;&copy; usBr<font color="#CC0000">iti sh  &#91;Chat &bull; RFF] 13:18, 19 December 2011 (UTC)

Also prepared:
 * Warwickshire SSSIs – 60 rows.
 * Essex SSSIs – 75 rows need completing.

<font color="#003399">Ma<font color="#CC0000">&reg;&copy; usBr<font color="#CC0000">iti sh  &#91;Chat &bull; RFF] 13:27, 19 December 2011 (UTC)

Gloucestershire fully complete with articles
I completed all articles for Gloucestershire list yesterday - have been working on these over several months. Gloucestershire has 121 sites in the list and some articles had been developed and there were a small number of 'small' stubs. I've added to existing articles/stubs and created new 'big' stubs for the remainder. I've ensured use of the SSSI Infobox, visible maps, images where possible, even galleries and audio where possible. A big thank you to all the editors who started Gloucestershire List, and to the photographers (some of the images have good supportive narrative which verifies article content). The GB SSSI project is an ambitious exercise, and I also thank all those who appear to have been working on this for GB since 2004/2005/2006. I was encouraged to give time to this project because of the visible dedication of a group of people and the supportive working environment of Wikipedia (my experience to date). I hope that Gloucestershire might go forward to join the 12 counties already with FL status to make 'a baker's dozen'? Sjeans (talk) 09:23, 14 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Excellent! I've tweaked it to fall in line with the new CompactTOC format that we've been applying lately, instead of the A–Z headers, for quicker navigation, and generally less clumsy to maintain (being one table). Looks good. Cheers,  Ma &reg;&copy; usBr iti sh {chat} 09:49, 14 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks, yes an improved framework and quicker down the list. Have also had a quick look at the protocols for FL status, and the 12 SSSI pages which already have this. It would seem to me that Gloucestershire is now in same/similar status?  Did notice that Hertfordshire, for example, was not quite complete in respect of its linked articles (perhaps some pages have since been removed). Sjeans (talk) 08:33, 15 September 2012 (UTC)

Field total
Hi Marcus. I see that all England counties have the number of SSSIs, and I wonder whether it is possible to convert the field for the total for all England from TBC to a formula which gives the figure. Do you know how to do this? If not I will try to find out. Dudley Miles (talk) 13:00, 14 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Hi, it seems Wiki markup does not offer a way to SUM a column. Normally it'd be handled by the underlying engine (e.g. PHP) or dynamically with Javascript by the browser. I removed the England totals because they did not add up any more, due to new SSSI notifications since the lists were first added to Wiki several years ago, some AoS have a couple more SSSIs. I thought it would be best to simply wait until all the lists are complete, then tot them up manually. If we add a total now it would not represent all SSSIs, just those we've finished, which could be misleading to researchers and seems a bad move. Better to only provide a total when it represents the actual full scope of English SSSIs for all 46 AoSs. However, Natural England has 4,121 citations in its database, if you need a "how many SSSIs are there?" figure, without Bio/Geo/both. Cheers,  Ma &reg;&copy; usBr iti sh {chat} 13:39, 14 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks. It has just occurred to me that totalling would be misleading because some SSSIs are listed twice because they are in two counties, such as Epping Forest in London and Essex. Perhaps it would be better to delete the final total fields? Dudley Miles (talk) 14:13, 14 September 2012 (UTC)
 * For now, might be best to stick an mdash across the Geo/Bio/both totals and put 4,121 as the total number of SSSIs in Britain, as that comes from Natural England, without the duplication, as far as I know, so is "citable". Once all the England tables are finished, we might be able to get an accurate sum for the different types of interest, but it will depend how many duplicates there are to account for. By removing the duplicates from the equation a sum might be reached that will be accurate ±3 at most.  Ma &reg;&copy; usBr iti sh {chat} 14:23, 14 September 2012 (UTC)

Maps - Nature on the Map links seem to be dead...
Ah, the powers that be seem to have killed all of the standard map links from SSSI list articles - Nature on the Map links seem to be dead and the Natural England pages now link to MAGIC maps (which are really quite useful as maps). It would seem that all those links may need to be redone.

Unless anyone can see a way around this (beyond removing the columns from our tables entirely). I was going to link all the remaining Suffolk maps but I think I'll stop and wait and see if anyone has any ideas on this first. Blue Square Thing (talk) 19:02, 29 May 2013 (UTC)


 * I doubt the links can be changed, it appears we now have to register to download GIS datasets via http://www.gis.naturalengland.org.uk/pubs/gis/gis_register.asp making all the Map columns pretty much defunc. Given that the data is "controlled" by a government organisation, I'm not surprised that they couldn't leave it alone with public open access. Tories.. can't trust them with anything.  Ma &reg;&copy; usBr iti sh {chat} 22:48, 29 May 2013 (UTC)


 * The OS columns are still fine mind you - so at least they haven't got to that yet... The suggestion is, then, to do away with the final map column do you think? Blue Square Thing (talk) 22:58, 29 May 2013 (UTC)


 * My original assumption was wrong. All map links need to be changed from http://www.natureonthemap.naturalengland.org.uk/map.aspx?map=sssi&feature=XXXXXXX,sssi,HYPERLINK,LABEL to http://magic.defra.gov.uk/MagicMap.aspx?startTopic=Designations&activelayer=sssiIndex&query=HYPERLINK%3D%27XXXXXXX%27 where XXXXXXX is the SSSI ID.  Ma &reg;&copy; usBr iti sh {chat} 23:14, 29 May 2013 (UTC)