User talk:Margin1522/Archive 2

Neutrality
Thanks for your comments. I understand what you say.

I am concerned about Wikipedia being used as a political electioneering tool. Correcting mistakes is how Wikipedia improves, blanket suppression is not.

What I find poor about the deletion of over 4,000 characters was that it both removed corrections of errors in the existing as well as creating a false impression about the pertinent details of the project.


 * Agree with this completely. Removing 4,000 characters is almost sure to throw out the baby with the bathwater, and will often lead to edit wars. If someone has objections to something, they should first try to improve it by rewriting it, and if they want to delete something do it step by step with a reason for each edit. And then be willing to discuss it on the talk page.

With the bus routes information - I had thought of it as relevant for two reasons: 1) Listing the 'new' stops for the LR project in isolation ie not detailing what they replace creates a misleading impression. 2) The replacement of twenty different bus routes ranging from express, limited stop and all-stop services by one much reduced all-stop service is an important (and claimed benefit through operation savings of $720m). 3) It is factual and relevant information as the project is designed to remove those services.


 * Those are good points. Personally I thought the bus lines looked better as one long line of route numbers, instead of a bullet list. But yes, this is definitely a point that should be discussed. Can you find multiple secondary sources that discuss it? If you can, it makes for a stronger case that we should include it and also points readers to sources where they can read more about it.

What is not spelt out is that the project is actually reducing public transport capacity by close to 2/3rds which is why the rapid deletions (see Drover's Wife etc) are of concern. I followed through links from usernames who deleted large sections and found connections between all of them. The deletions or additions predominantly relate to politician bios or Govt projects.


 * Maybe so. Probably so, actually. But there's no help for this. People have opinions. All we can do is make sure that the article we're working on now is reliable and NPOV (I've given up trying to guess the political views of Wikipedia editors. Often it turns out to be not at all what I expected.)

I agree in the need to be objective which is why I have only added material directly from Govt sites predominantly. The selective misquoting that I attempted to correct by providing the full context was done to provide the actual position not an adjusted view of the world. One case, for example, was the project capacity. It had been entered as 50% more than 9,000 (somewhat strange?) which was taken from a Media Release that preceded it with may ultimately. That is very different to will. The editor then left out (and subsequently deleted my correction) which was from the same media release stating that capacity would increase by 15% in peak hours. I provided the numbers missing from the MR of moving from 6,000 to 6,900. That is very different to '50% more than 9000".


 * Right. I feel very strongly that what we say should not go beyond what the sources support. No claims that the source wouldn't agree with. About the government sites, we can use those for factual information, but we need to be careful not to use the facts as "evidence" for an argument. When we make an argument or a claim that interprets the facts, we should always get it from a secondary source, like a newspaper story.

In stark contrast there have been some genuine editors improving the grammar, content etc and their work has also been removed in attempts to suppress information.

To me this is worrying.


 * Hmm, sounds like there may be a problem with WP:OWNership, where one editor thinks they own the article. Not good. But once again, the best way to deal with it is to speak up on the talk page. It won't get fixed if nobody says anything. If it continues, there are dispute resolution procedures to deal with it, but first there has to be a dispute.

regardsA M R Sydney (talk) 02:49, 20 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Hi . Thanks for the response. I'll add some comments to the paragraphs above instead of repeating them here. – Margin1522 (talk) 03:44, 20 February 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for that Margin1522.

Can you please spell out what specific talk page you are talking about (possibly provide the link?).

About WP:OWNership I suspect it is more linked to political ownership unfortunately. But we can hope.

A M R Sydney (talk) 04:24, 20 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Hi . The talk page of the article you've been working on is Talk:CBD and South East Light Rail. If you put the article page on your watchlist, then you'll get a notice anytime somebody makes a comment on the associated talk page. For details, see Help:Watching pages. (Sorry that's a typical Wikipedia help file -- 10 times more complicated than it needs to be. But essentially, to watch a page, all you need to do is click the star next to "View history" at the top of the page, or click it again to unwatch. Then click Watchlist at the very top of every page to view your watchlist.) – Margin1522 (talk) 04:43, 20 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Thank you Margin1522. In process and hopefully will yield a +ve result.  Must try at least...


 * regardsA M R Sydney (talk) 05:02, 20 February 2015 (UTC)

GOCE March newsletter
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Books and Bytes - Issue 10
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Issue 10, January-February 2015 by, ,

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Nomination of Ius Laboris for deletion
A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Ius Laboris is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Articles for deletion/Ius Laboris until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article. Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here 09:11, 6 March 2015 (UTC)

Practical phonetic training
Hi, you recently kindly helped me out when my article on the BABEL speech corpus hit trouble. I thought I had now learned enough from my experience to be able to write an acceptable article, but a message has arrived on my Talk page telling me that my latest effort (Practical phonetic training) has just been given the thumbs down. I have sent a message to the reviewer to explain why I think this is a wrong decision, but I would be glad of any advice you could offer. Thanks. RoachPeter (talk) 15:34, 6 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Thank you for your advice. I think I have now finally understood why writing about my subject area in the way I do is not what WP expects. RoachPeter (talk) 11:42, 7 March 2015 (UTC)

Syndication
Hi. I'm not sure this ping worked. Just want to make sure you saw my question. --Dr. Fleischman (talk) 19:19, 12 March 2015 (UTC)
 * No, I didn't see it. I don't know exactly why. I do know it doesn't work unless the ping and the signature are in the same edit. Anyway I replied there, thanks. – Margin1522 (talk) 20:16, 12 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your response, quite interesting. This is a hard thing to do research on, but I did find this job description for a copy editor whose responsibilities include "proofing syndicated material from partners." I wonder if news outlets generally proof syndicated stories but don't fact check them. I can't imagine there being extensive fact checking, as it would defeat the purpose of buying syndicated content and also lead to authorship problems. Syndicated authors would have multiple versions of their stories floating around, what a nightmare. Anyway, at this point this is more of a curiosity to me than anything else. --Dr. Fleischman (talk) 20:18, 12 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Oh, they do check. I don't know if you would call it fact checking, but the language is more accurate after a good copy edit. Of course they are fussy about syntax and punctuation, but also about clearing up ambiguities. And sometimes checking facts. – Margin1522 (talk) 20:31, 12 March 2015 (UTC)

S K Mehrotra
Dear Margin1522, I have written to Anjossp - here User talk:Anjossp - but I am not sure what the best way to proceed is. Best wishes (Msrasnw (talk) 16:15, 9 March 2015 (UTC))
 * That is exactly what I would have said – autobiography is the main reason it failed last time. If you have the time you could offer to write it yourself, with him offering suggestions on a talk page somewhere. The article that was deleted would be a good place to start, as it was more or less finished. But before doing any of this, I think it would be a good idea to contact the closing admin and get his approval. If the last one was salted then adding a middle initial to get around the salting is not the way to go. If he approves, then he could release the old article into draft space somewhere. Perhaps you could point out that the old article contained a number of reviews in high-quality journals, unfortunately paywalled, and we would like to make an effort to find out what the reviews said. I suspect that the reviews will show that he is clearly notable. – Margin1522 (talk) 16:51, 9 March 2015 (UTC)
 * I am afraid - a problem is I have had bad dealings with the closing admin before and am pretty sure we will get little help from there. I wrote to him after the AFD and got what I consdier short shrift. He copied my note on his talk page back to my talk page and said that
 * I consider all my deletion decisions carefully to ensure they are appropriate and this is no exception. A clear majority of opinions were in favour of deletion and as User:EEng noted, the sources need to actually exist in reality, rather than in likelihood. Stifle.
 * I also asked the admin who voted to delete and salt for help but got no help there either: User_talk:David_Eppstein/2014d#Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion.2FSantosh_Mehrotra
 * I think an administrator would need to be invovlved to get a page on Mehrotra back - but there are not so many interested in Indian - or non US/UK academics/public administrators. I have resolved to try to steer clear of problems as they lead to stress. But I will have another think on this. Best wishes, (Msrasnw (talk) 17:52, 9 March 2015 (UTC))
 * PS wrt adding a middle initial to get around the salting - I think this not the way to go but I think an earlier version (17:19, 5 December 2014 Jimfbleak (talk | contribs) deleted page Santosh K. Mehrotra (G11: Unambiguous advertising or promotion) -  had this in and so I don't know I they being a bit tricky with renaming to avoid the salting or just are as I suspect new to wp and not sure of all "our ways". (Msrasnw (talk) 18:02, 9 March 2015 (UTC))

Dear Margin, I see it is back in the main space -- with my suggestions made on the talk page of the draft now looking a bit silly on the talk page of the article in the main space. I am not sure what to do and at the moment plan to do nothing. Any suggestions? Perhaps leaving it a while and then some tidying and trimming. Best wishes (Msrasnw (talk) 10:13, 16 March 2015 (UTC))

Sorry
Sorry about clobbering your work on Bikes to Rwanda. I had just spent about an hour finding and formatting all new references and had an edit conflict when I tried to save. It looked like you tried to salvage the old references, which weren't too great, so I went ahead with my replacement. I apologize again and hope there are no hard feelings. If you are pissed, I would understand, and please let me know so I can make it right. -AndrewDressel (talk) 14:12, 29 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Not at all, and thanks for the rewrite. That's what it needed. If anyone wants to put the old references back in they're in the history. – Margin1522 (talk) 17:35, 29 March 2015 (UTC)

Sorting per TPG
Hi, Thanks for trying to sort at Talk:Fossil fuel divestment. Thus far I am the only one who has posted at that talk page, and I reverted.

Threads are sorted in order based on first post (when the thread was created).

Posts within a thread are generally sorted with new at the bottom. Unless, of course, the thread gets complicated with several layers of indenting, in which case new posts get sorted by sub-branch also.

NewsAndEventsGuy (talk) 18:32, 30 March 2015 (UTC)
 * PS, I put the link to the noticeboard discussion under my own section "questionable sources" on basis of WP:MULTI.  We can use whatever section headings everyone finds helpful, however.   On the other hand, no one but me is yet making use of the talk page. NewsAndEventsGuy (talk) 18:49, 30 March 2015 (UTC)


 * Yes, sorry I looked only at the last one, without noticing that the section contained two posts. I was intending to reply at RSN, but wanted to look at the context first. – Margin1522 (talk) 18:53, 30 March 2015 (UTC)|
 * No prob, I wish everyone paid attention to organizing comments. Looking forward to your thoughts at RSN. NewsAndEventsGuy (talk) 18:59, 30 March 2015 (UTC)

A kitten for you!
This wiki kitten is here to express my respect for successfully defending the article on IL from my deletion proposal. And thanks for creating a helpful article!

Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here 01:35, 1 April 2015 (UTC) 

A new reference tool
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Soka Gakkai entry needs help
If this is a breach of etiquette or Wiki policy, please stop reading now and let me know.

I’m very concerned about the tenor of the Soka Gakkai page, and specifically that it’s not really a “Soka Gakkai” page; to a great extent, it’s a “Nichiren Shoshu’s View of the Soka Gakkai” page. If you have time, could you look at it and see if you also get that impression? (The opening of Beliefs and Practices, and the sub section on Daisaku Ikeda most specifically). Thank you. (Sending this to a couple of other more objective editors also)--Daveler16 (talk) 17:00, 17 June 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for your note - noth9ing too serious, I hope. Take care.--Daveler16 (talk) 16:12, 2 July 2015 (UTC)

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Anne Lacaton
Sorry to be so slow in getting back to you. I see no problem with having a separate article for Anne Lacaton as well as an article on the firm. --Big_iron (talk) 00:37, 21 December 2016 (UTC)
 * OK, thanks. Let's do both then. – Margin1522 (talk) 09:30, 21 December 2016 (UTC)