User talk:Margin1522/Archive 3

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Books and Bytes - Issue 20
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The Real News
I didn't recall this edit. Checking, I see that the proximate reason was the editing of "A Real Volunteer" of the Real News and a series of edits by a (now blocked) sockpuppet. Hadn't visited page in 2 yrs. Capitalismojo (talk) 16:09, 18 February 2017 (UTC)
 * Thanks. Checking again, it looks like a number of single-purpose editors were briefly active on this article four or five years ago. But it's kind of hard to tell who they were. The promotional stuff is gradually being weeded out, so I think it should be OK to just leave it up with the tags that it has now. – Margin1522 (talk) 21:56, 18 February 2017 (UTC)

Guild of Copy Editors February 2017 News
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Merger discussion for Genius loci
An article that you have been involved in editing&mdash;Genius loci&mdash;has been proposed for merging with another article. If you are interested, please participate in the merger discussion. Thank you. Cl ea n Co py talk 23:45, 15 June 2017 (UTC) Cl ea n Co py talk 23:45, 15 June 2017 (UTC)

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Replying here
Partly because I get the impression that replying to the main point you were making in context would give the impression of repeated disruptive arguing on the project page, when in reality I get the impression we are simply talking about different things. But more because what I really want to address is something related to what you wrote but not to the main topic of that discussion. I think parenthetical roman numerals on articles like that are a bad idea, as it gives the impression the two names are identical in Japanese. Essentially the same issue was recently addressed at Talk:Emperor Xuanzong of Tang (9th century); that emperor of Tang China is apparently sometimes referred to in English as "Xuanzong II", but the Chinese is clearly different. Asukai Masaaki is another identical case that by sheer bizarre coincidence I was involved in within the past month. Dates seem like they are generally the way to go in such cases. Although I may be completely wrong about all of this. Hijiri 88 ( 聖やや ) 08:58, 7 December 2017 (UTC)
 * I agree, it's not a great idea. I don't remember who did that, whether it was me or not. In this case the names of the two guys from Odawara are exactly the same, which I guess is why I and II. Using dates does sound like a better way to go. Maybe I should go back and fix the non-displayed red links of the guys from Karasuyama.– Margin1522 (talk) 10:35, 7 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Shit -- I misread your comment. I didn't notice the Karasuyama ones. Anyway, I think you accidentally clicked on the second one twice but didn't notice because "II" is only one letter off from "I" and your eye was automatically drawn to the kanji such that you didn't notice you were reading the wrong article, since it appears that "I" is actually 忠由. It's an understandable mistake, and actually underlines why inclusion of kanji in the leads of articles where that information is peripheral trivia (even though this is not the case for the daimyo articles, as they actually were Japanese). Hijiri 88 ( 聖やや ) 10:46, 7 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Yeah, it was a long day yesterday. I think I'm going to take your suggestion and change the red links of the Karasuyama guys to something simple, like (d. 1661). Just to prevent linking to the wrong daimyō. Then let whoever actually writes the article decide what they want to call it. – Margin1522 (talk) 00:57, 8 December 2017 (UTC)

Wikipedia:ISAWIT listed at Redirects for discussion
An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect ISAWIT. Since you had some involvement with the Wikipedia:ISAWIT redirect, you might want to participate in the redirect discussion if you have not already done so. Mathglot (talk) 07:49, 10 December 2017 (UTC)

Senju-ji
Hi! Thanks for your good work on the Senju-ji article. How about splitting it in two articles (as is done with many other Japanese temples that go by the same name)? Or do you think that the two temples are so closely connected that it should stay in one article? If there is a chance that the article might be split, I think it would be better to link (e.g. from the National Treasure lists) to Senju-ji (Tsu) and make that page (for the time being) a redirect to Senju-ji. bamse (talk) 01:15, 10 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Hi, and thank you for your work on the National Treasures. That is a tremendous resource. About splitting the article, the two temples are pretty closely related. The 本山 site has a page on the 本寺, and the abbot of both is the same person. But I agree that it's confusing. If you recommend splitting, it should be easy to do. Why don't you go ahead and redirect Senju-ji (Tsu) to Senju-ji? Then sometime next week I will convert Senju-ji (Tsu) to the article on the 本山 and create an article on the 本寺, leaving Senju-ji as a disambiguation page. Aparently there are quite a few affiliated temples （別院）with that name. – Margin1522 (talk) 03:29, 10 December 2017 (UTC)
 * This was just a thought and I don't feel strongly about it either way. Since you are more familiar with the topic, I'll leave it up to you what to do with the article. bamse (talk) 20:46, 10 December 2017 (UTC)
 * OK thanks, will do. – Margin1522 (talk) 23:14, 10 December 2017 (UTC)

Books and Bytes - Issue 25
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Guild of Copy Editors December 2017 News
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Books and Bytes - Issue 26
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Help with the National Memo article
Hi. I noticed that you made several professional contributions to Stan Greenberg article and decided to ask for your help with The National Memo article. Greenberg is a frequent contributor to it so I assume that you know this media (and the liberal press) quite well. The article has been undergoing dramatic edits and I ask for your assistance in editing/improving this article.

I while ago I was asked to make several minor edits to the article as paid editor. At that time the article had minimal content and was no more than a stub. I’ve added some information following the structure of such articles as Salon (website), HuffPost, Politico adding infobox, improving categories and adding some well-referenced info. The article started to look like a normal website/media article. After that it got heavily edited in two waves by editors deleting large chunks of well-written (ok, my personal view :)) and well-referenced information. I believe that some of these edits/deletions are extraneous and actually make the article worse/less useful to Wikipedia users. I also believe that The National Memo article has an undisputable notability. There is an interesting discussion about this at the article’s Talk page.

A lot of what is going on around this article is plain nonsense. So if you are interested in the subject / in improving the article, please take a look at January 10th version or January 29th version. Also if you have any suggestions on improving the article, please share. Thank you in advance.-- Bbarmadillo (talk) 19:27, 3 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Thanks, but looking the Talk page I don't think I have time right now to do it justice. Maybe later. – Margin1522 (talk) 08:14, 4 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Thank you for answering. I've also created a topic about it at Project Journalim. I hope some common sense will finally prevail. -- Bbarmadillo (talk) 21:17, 5 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Hi. Please check my recent proposed edits to the article and comment on them here. They are reasonable and neutral. Thank you. -- Bbarmadillo (talk) 17:47, 7 February 2018 (UTC)

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Proposed deletion of Mottainai Grandma


The article Mottainai Grandma has been proposed for deletion. The proposed deletion notice added to the article should explain why.

While all constructive contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, pages may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the page to address the issues raised. Removing will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. Hijiri 88 ( 聖やや ) 07:23, 19 May 2018 (UTC)

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If it's not COPYVIO, it's OR?
Regarding I've mentioned elsewhere my belief that once you get beyond dates and facts the same thought in different words is a different thought. I think I've seen this thought expressed elsewhere on-wiki, but usually as a caricature of an opponent's view, not a sincerely held belief by someone who's been accused of close paraphrasing. But I'm curious how you can translate (which your user page says is your profession) if you think changing the words necessarily changes the thoughts. Hijiri 88 ( 聖やや ) 05:09, 26 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Right, I don't imagine it's a very popular idea. It's what the poets will tell you, but who reads poetry? And yes, I think there is tension between the ban on plagiarism and the ban on OR. The policy acknowledges it. You're supposed to get your ideas from elsewhere, but put them in your own words. Easier said than done, especially once you get past the level of verifiable facts. Which IMO is one reason why 90% of Wikipedia consists of verifiable facts. E.g. our article on Motoori Norinaga. Inadequate on his ideas, although I guess also because that part would be hard regardless.
 * About translation, very roughly, at the two poles, you can try to sound natural or try to be faithful. I'm the latter. For example, I also do editing, and when I get a text by a European architect I will check that it's grammatical, intelligible, and accurate. But I don't try to make it sound like a native English speaker. If it sounds a bit strange, that's OK. It should, it was written by a foreigner. Translation is the same. It's the author's voice, not mine.
 * Anyway, it's not very often that a word gets the full Wikipedia treatment. But sometimes it does. For example, earlier this week I did a text that had a section about Bernard Rudofsky's distinction between vernacular architecture and what my author called 様式建築. The straightforward translation for that would be "style-architecture". But that term is owned by Hermann Muthesius, in German since 1902 when his book Stilarchitektur und Baukunst was published, and in English since 1994 when a translation appeared. So I downloaded the original and translation (both free) and checked the context of every occurrence to see whether his usage was compatible with Rudofsky and my author's. It was, so I put the word in quotes, mentioned Muthesius in the text, and got permission to add a translator's note citing both editions. I guess if I can do this in a translation I can do it on Wikipedia too, and make Tony and Curly happy.– Margin1522 (talk) 06:27, 27 May 2018 (UTC)

June 2018 GOCE newsletter
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