User talk:Mariomassone/sandbox

Is "genetic polution" bad for the environment? The cases of the Scottish wildcat and the Australian Dingo
Daniels, Mike J.; Corbett, Laurie (2003). "Redefining introgressed protected mammals: when is a wildcat a wild cat and a dingo a wild dog?". Wildlife Research 30 (3): 213–8. doi:10.1071/WR02045. Chrisrus (talk) 19:33, 7 May 2012 (UTC)

coywolves suffer from subsequent generation infertility?
When some of your sources say coywolves become infertile and others say they do not, something's got to give.

The solution is not to say both, in one section one thing and the other section the opposite, because then the article contradicts itself and is incoherent.

In my opinion, in this case, no matter what those other sources say, go with the new ones such as the famous "Canis soupus: Eastern wolf genetics and its implications for wolf recovery in the Northeast United States." and so on to confirm what we know by now that subsequent generations of coywolves are reproducing perfectly fine all over the northeast, thanks. Just ignore those parts of those sources that say they become infertile, because they obviously do not or else there wouldn't be red wolves and eastern timber wolves and Eastern coyotes and so on.

If the explanation for the fact that populations of coywolves (and Sulimov "dogs" for that matter) can keep interbreeing indefinately with no such problem lies in the fact that aren't 50%/50% or "back bred" with purebreds or whatever it is, be prepared to explain it, please because it makes no sense to say that their subsequent generations become infertile and can't interbreed in one section and then in the next section say that such populations do interbreed every day, and have been doing so for quite a while, with no explanation as to how these two seemingly contradictory facts can both be true. Chrisrus (talk) 07:13, 20 June 2012 (UTC)

Thanks...
...for taking on an overhaul of the article Wolf attack! I was very happy to hear you'd be taking it on. Chrisrus (talk) 19:19, 25 September 2013 (UTC)

Bird Grinell's Milk Maid
I would like to add Bird Grinell's 1880 milkmaid attack even though it's not fatal because the reader would benefit from knowing about it more than s/he would by us choosing not to include it. It's an interesting event, and knowledge of it might be important for the reader to know for some reason, No crystal ball. I am saddened not to have convinced you that significant, well-cited non-fatal wolf attacks are worthy of listing previously, and would like another chance to sway you. To that end, I offer the following reasons. That's all I can think to say about this now. If you'd rather, please don't feel compelled to reply right away, but keep it in the back of your mind and let me know what you decide later. Chrisrus (talk) 19:19, 25 September 2013 (UTC)
 * If the article were only about fatal attacks, it would say so in the title, as does Fatal dog attacks in the United States. No where does the article say that only fatal attacks shall be included or why.
 * There may not turn out to be so many such attacks that the article would be far too long. This I recall was your reason previously, but wolf attacks of any sort are rare, so the article length shouldn't be too long.
 * Just because a wolf attack was not fatal does not mean that it was not a significant event.
 * If the reader can be assumed to be interested in wolf attacks, s/he will probably be interested to learn about Bird's milkmaid story or others.


 * As you feel so strongly about the issue, then I will not oppose it, though I hope you'll understand if I choose only to write about the fatal ones. If you add a section on non-fatal ones, then I will not protest. However, I think it's worth noting that the only non-fatal attacks I know of that made headlines occurred in North America. It would appear that they are such an accepted part of reality elsewhere that they're not even worth mentioning outside NA. In this case, I'm wondering if there should be a separate article entirely on wolf attacks in the US and Canada.Mariomassone (talk) 16:33, 26 September 2013 (UTC)

Non-fatal attacks in N. Am
http://www.startribune.com/local/225392642.html Chrisrus (talk) 06:29, 29 September 2013 (UTC)

Schmidt and Timm, and Rashid Jamsheed
Here...

http://digitalcommons.unl.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1070&context=icwdm_wdmconfproc

...is a paper. I wondered if had it. If not, I think you'll appreciate it. I don't know Schmidt, but Timm is well known to me because Coyote attacks on humans relies on papers including several with his name on them, some as the lead author.

By the way, I noticed that one of the citations it uses is "JAMSHEED, R. 1976. Big game animals of Iran. Rashid Jamsheed, Tehran(?). 122 pp." It's among the references used to cite the statement "Several authors have written that wolf attacks on humans are common in Eurasia but rare in North America (Young and Goldman 1944, Jamsheed 1976, Kumar 2003)." It's also one of the reference books I was searching for to replace the Mader paper. It's the only source I know for some historic attacks in Iran other than Mader. Here's what Maider claims about the book:

"Rashid Jamsheed, a U.S. trained biologist, was the game director for Iran. He wrote a book entitled "Big Game Animals of Iran (Persia)." In it he made several references to wolf attacks on humans. Jamsheed says that for a millennia people have reported wolves attacking and killing humans. In winter, when starving wolves grow bold, they have been known to enter towns and kill people in daylight on the streets. Apparently, in Iran, there are many cases of wolves running off with small children. There is also a story of a mounted and armed policeman (gendarme) being followed by 3 wolves. In time he had to get off his horse to attend to nature’s call, leaving his rifle in the scabbard. A later reconstruction at the scene of the gnawed bones and wolf tracks indicated that the horse had bolted and left the man defenseless, whereupon he was killed and eaten." - Maider

Google Scholar returns several citations to this book, mostly in papers about Iranian Ungulates. Google books has it, but I can't read or search it, but it's what we have for an alternative citation for the Persian gendarme fatal wolf attack, as well as such statements as maybe "There have been reports wolf attacks on humans in Persia/Iran for thousands of years". Chrisrus (talk) 01:05, 6 October 2013 (UTC)

Diane K. Boyd
Diane K. Boyd is a wildlife biologist from the School of Forestry at the University of Montana, Missoula. She studies wolves, and has published papers such as "Characteristics of Dispersal in a Colonizing Wolf Population in the Central Rocky Mountains", in the Journal of Wildlife Management, 63(4):1094-1108, primary author.

If you would, please read this short piece by her published as a case study in the textbook: http://sites.sinauer.com/groom/article.php?id=24 Principles of Conservation Biology. I hope you'll cite it or use it to find other citations. Here's my summary; see if you agree: "In North America, wolf persecution left wolves timid, but now they're becoming bold again." Chrisrus (talk) 03:13, 7 October 2013 (UTC)


 * I'll definitely give it a look. As for the Schmidt paper, I've looked through it, and it seems the wolf info merely consists of stuff already mentioned in the article (the sources are identical).

Wolf Attacks in Iran/Persia

 * As for the Iranian source, it would be great to have some page numbers. Mariomassone (talk) 07:41, 7 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Re: Jamsheed, yes, and look at the price! I'll keep trying; I've got an idea.... Chrisrus (talk) 16:35, 7 October 2013 (UTC)
 * If that idea consists of buying it, then it could have info useful also for the golden jackal and striped hyena articles. Anyway, look forward to hearing about it.Mariomassone (talk) 17:01, 7 October 2013 (UTC)
 * You don't happen to live in Fort Lauderdale, DC, Philadelphia, or Los Angeles? Libraries in those cities supposedly have this book. Chrisrus (talk) 18:30, 7 October 2013 (UTC)
 * I'm afraid I don't even live in the US (as some may have noticed from my spelling conventions). Don't you have friends in those areas? Mariomassone (talk) 20:03, 7 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Yes, I do, but not the kind that might look this up for us.
 * I thought "Let me ask a research librarian at the Library of Congress", but then I got this http://www.loc.gov/today/pr/2013/13-A07.html and remembered The Shutdown has sent all those people home. Damn tea party republicans!
 * I haven't given up yet...Chrisrus (talk) 05:59, 8 October 2013 (UTC)

It's prohibitively expensive and not on public shelves in NYS. I left this message on the Farsi Wikipedian's message board; still no bites. That wouldn't help with this specific ISBN anyhow; it's in English. But you'd think one of them could help somehow research the topic of wolf attacks in Iran/Persia. I think it's just a dead page; no one replies there much at all. We should find a better message board. Someone out there has this book. I think a Wikipedian really into hunting would have it, or someone who lives near The Library of Congress. Chrisrus (talk) 03:40, 31 October 2013 (UTC)

JoM Vol. 28, No. 3, August 1947
Can you access "A Record of Timber Wolf Attacking a Man" Journal of Mammalogy Vol. 28, No. 3, August 1947? I can't get passed this page: http://www.asmjournals.org/loi/mamm. Chrisrus (talk) 14:04, 25 October 2013 (UTC)


 * I can't either. However, as North America has exceptionally good records of non fatal attacks, I'm sure you can find the incident on other sources. It could very well be included in the McNay report.Mariomassone (talk) 16:14, 25 October 2013 (UTC)

McNay 2000 Alaska/Canada report

 * Thank you for pointing to the McNay reports. I'm still doing Alaska/Canada now.  Sorry it's such slow going.  Chrisrus (talk) 03:52, 31 October 2013 (UTC)

Kvetch
I wish those who argue on the Wolf attack talk page would instead contribute here. Chrisrus (talk) 03:52, 31 October 2013 (UTC)

Spin-off?
Should Wolf attacks in North America exist? Chrisrus (talk) 06:15, 2 November 2013 (UTC)


 * That was my original idea, but you somehow convinced me that the current plan was better.Mariomassone (talk) 08:18, 2 November 2013 (UTC)


 * I'll be away for five days. Make sure the IP user doesn't delete anything. Thanks. Mariomassone (talk) 09:39, 3 November 2013 (UTC)


 * 'k. Chrisrus (talk) 14:09, 3 November 2013 (UTC)