User talk:Marjarau

Ilona Harima
Hello again, Marjarau. I am a bird geek and usually edit or write articles about birds and ornithologists. I try to help out at the Teahouse and sometimes become interested in other subjects. I hope to help you get your Ilona Harima article ready for article space in March, Women's History Month in much of the English-speaking world.

References (sources) do not need to be written in English. Add as many Finnish sources as you find that provide details about Harima.

Your English is fluent, understandable and very good but not as smoothly flowing as a native speaker's. I notice that you sometimes mix British and American spelling. I venture a guess that you were taught British English in school but are influenced by American because it is more common on the Internet. Even native speakers find it difficult to remain consistent when we edit articles. I will try to help write the article so that it meets the standards of the en.Wikipedia Manual of Style. Some of my suggestions like the infobox artist are not necessary but are common in en.Wikipedia to provide a visual summary about a person or thing. If you prefer only prose, say so and revert.

I hope you will spend a little time working on your userpage. Experienced editor Pluma created a page of fun stuff(<=click on it). I hope you will add language userboxes to your userpage. They will automatically add you to lists of those who speak languages other than English and might be willing to help translate sources in another language.

Work will limit my time on Wikipedia for a few days but I will try to stay in touch and continue work on your article growing in your sandbox. For now, take care, DocTree (ʞlɐʇ·cont) Join WER 01:48, 4 March 2013 (UTC)

Re: on editing Ilona Harima-sandbox page
Hello DocTree, Please give your opinion on my Ilona Harima - editing in my sandbox. I've done some changes to the original infobox material: removed sculptor and Hilma af Klint - the connection to both is too small to be relevant in infobox. In addition to my language as a whole I'd be grateful to punctuation check - one of my weak spots. Thanks again!Marjarau (talk) 08:35, 17 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Hi, Marijarau. My habit in creating articles is to copy the style and format of a good article on a similar topic and then add content that I researched.  You are improving my education by forcing me to actually read the en.Wikipedia Manual of Style.


 * In my opinion, your article is already OK for en.Wikipedia article space. I suggest that the changes of Ilona's surname are better explained in the body of the article.  I propose the following as the opening paragraph:

Ilona Harima (4 March 1911 – 9 June 1986) was a Finnish artist whose paintings expressed deep oriental spirituality. Her style was strongly influenced by Buddhism and Hinduism but not similar to Asian art. Harima developed a personal style very different from the mainstream movements of that era such as Cubism and Expressionism during the period between the [World war}world wars]].


 * It is better if either Sources or References are used, not both. The en.WP Manual of Style states that types of reference should not be mixed in an article.  Look at Referencing for Beginners and watch the video.  If you use the Cite templates, click on the Show/hide extra fields; there is a field for Language.  If you use the templates, the format is the same for each reference.


 * I made a couple of changes already. Please be sure that I didn't change the meaning you intended to convey.  I will read through your draft again tomorrow (eastern time, USA; -5 UTC).


 * For now, take care, DocTree (ʞlɐʇ·cont) Join WER 01:12, 19 March 2013 (UTC)


 * Thanks again, I changed the opening paragraph, but without the art-movement names, (after discussing the matter with an art historian here), better without, there are also many other more relevant ones of them during that period. The name-changes also, but where to add the name Rautiala, which she used for the rest of her life since 1939, Harima being her artist name ? Sources - references section: OK for adding the English summary by Anttonen. But is it possible to make the link open directly to p. 58 where the summary begins? I hope that the references-style can be kept like this in a more free form without using the templates - complicated, in this case. (Marjarau (talk) 09:19, 19 March 2013 (UTC)).


 * The link that I added opens to the on-line English page with the English summary available as a .pdf download. Few operating systems would allow an automatic download of a .pdf and then scrolling to a particular page; the same HTML could be used to inject a computer virus or trojan.


 * Because your article is a biography, perhaps you should include a short section below Career titled Personal life. One paragraph should be enough.  Include her marriage date and a few other details such as that she used Ilona Harima as her artist name but was otherwise known by her married name.  Include the number of children (I now know she had at least one), places where the family resided if not always in Helsinki, and other facts that you think may be of interest to readers.


 * Use the reference templates only if you find them useful and easier. Templates are just a tool to make referencing faster and consistent.  Once I learned to use them, templates became my preferred way to insert in-line references. DocTree (ʞlɐʇ·cont) Join WER 23:26, 19 March 2013 (UTC)


 * Hello again, I checked the video on the Wikipedia-style page on references. If absolutely necessary, I could try to rebuild the reference-section, but it seems so complicated as here is firstly the book (in the sources-section) and articles in the same book in the references-section. I hope the references can be kept as they are. I had originally the sources and references under one heading. I could change that back if it looks better.Marjarau (talk) 15:32, 19 March 2013 (UTC)


 * No need to change your references and sources; keep them as they are. I made a few small changes to the text.  I don't think that I changed the meaning of what you wrote.  In my opinion, it's time to move your article to main space.  Take care, DocTree (ʞlɐʇ·cont) Join WER 23:26, 19 March 2013 (UTC)


 * Hello, I added the paragraph on personal life. Had to make a few changes in references-section too. Could you check the contents, if its ok or not. Fine, if it is ready, but I'm awkward about the moving-process.Marjarau (talk) 09:08, 20 March 2013 (UTC)


 * Hi, Marja. Congratulations.  I see that you were bold and that you moved the article Ilona Harima to its proper place.  The group at the Teahouse helped fix minor things but none of them were significant problems.


 * Do you have a photograph of Ilona that belongs to you, produced by you or another family member so that you own the copyright? US copyright law gives copyrights to the photographer unless the photographer released rights to those who requested and paid for the print.  Can you scan or take a digital photo of a portrait of her and upload it to Commons?  Then you can add that file to the infobox.


 * Thank you for your work here in en.Wikipedia! Take care, DocTree (ʞlɐʇ·cont) Join WER 01:34, 22 March 2013 (UTC)

Cleaning up and then next?
Hello again, Marja. One more task for you after moving your article. Did you notice that when you click on Sandbox you now go to Ilona Harima? After you move, the wiki software leaves a redirect. To clean it up:
 * 1) Right-click on Ilona Harima and choose to open a new window so you can read this in one window and work in the other one.
 * 2) In the navigation to the left of the article, click on Toolbox and then click What links here.
 * 3) Look for User:Marjarau/sandbox (redirect page)‎ (links) and click on it.  (You could click on it here but then you would not learn how to go to a redirect page to edit it.)
 * 4) Now you can edit your Sandbox page.  Delete the redirect and add  .  Check it with Show preview and then Save page to get your sandbox back.


 * OK, user sandbox cleaned. Easy to do with these good instructions. Marjarau (talk) 20:56, 23 March 2013 (UTC)

As you see, I nominated your article for Did you know? If the nomination is successful, your article will be featured on the en.Wikipedia Main Page. On the day that it appears on the Main Page, hundreds of people will look at your article. Actually, because it is new and was nominated, many are already looking. To see how many, go to your article again and click the View history tab. Look for the line External tools: and then to the right for Page view statistics. When you click there, it will show how many viewed your article. Subtract you and me and the other helpers who edited since it moved to mainspace. All of the other views are visitors interested in learning about Ilona Harima or Finnish artists.


 * Hello, this is interesting. I'll be checking the wiki main page in the near future. Thanks!Marjarau (talk) 20:56, 23 March 2013 (UTC)

I hope you will continue to contribute to English Wikipedia. I found the article Birger Carlstedt when I was looking for more information for your article. Only 3 sentences, his article needs to be improved. If you look at the List of Finnish painters, this Wikipedia lacks articles on many prominent Finnish artists. I and many others would appreciate your helping improve en.Wikipedia if you have the time and inclination.

Take care, DocTree (ʞlɐʇ·cont) Join WER 20:37, 22 March 2013 (UTC)


 * Thanks for this confidence in me. I must think this over. Work in wiki is interesting and I'd like to contribute more but the problem with me is that I succeed only working on subjects and persons that I am acquainted with or otherwise have a profound interest in. I'll return to this matter later on. But will anyhow take my time to read the wiki manual and learn more of the many details. Regards,Marjarau (talk) 20:56, 23 March 2013 (UTC)

Your article is in the DYK Queue
Hi again, Marja. I want to alert you that the Did you know? nomination for your article was moved to the DYK queue, the last step before it appears on the en.Wikipedia Main Page. It should appear on the main page in the next 24 hours or so. Watch for it (and make a screen shot to save for yourself and to share with family and friends). Take care, DocTree (ʞlɐʇ·cont) Join WER 19:52, 5 April 2013 (UTC)


 * Finally actually scheduled. Your article will be featured on the Main Page for eight hours tomorrow, 07 April,  starting at 13:07 in Helsinki (10:07 UTC).  DocTree (ʞlɐʇ·cont) Join WER 22:44, 6 April 2013 (UTC)

DYK for Ilona Harima
Casliber (talk · contribs) 08:54, 7 April 2013 (UTC)