User talk:Mark83/Archive 8

BAE FAC, OK?
Sorry I haven't been contributing much recently.

I think you've covered all my earlier points, but I'd like to go through the rest of the article if that would be helpful.

Regarding Blue Vixen - sounds like as good an example as any. I tend to be more interested in the big lumps of metal than the twiddly electronic stuff, I just thought the article ought to give an example from that side of the house as well. Cheers. 4u1e 13:48, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

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Template:Infobox Defunct Company
Would you take a look at this template for me? I am trying to include an optional caption for under the image, but I can't get it right. Thanks. Epson291 06:59, 12 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Never mind, figured it out. Epson291 07:03, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

Image:F1 team budget split.png
Hi, Mark! I'd be very grateful if you could translate this image into Galician for our F1 article and upload it to Commons when you have some free time and if you feel like, of course. Please, contact me at my Galician Wikipedia talk page.

The translation would be:

Estimated F1 team budget split -> Presuposto estimado dunha escudería de F1 Engine -> Motor R&D -> I+D Manufacturing -> Fabricación Capital Expenses -> Gastos de capital Race team -> Equipo de carreiras Drivers -> Pilotos Test Team -> Equipo de probas Hydraulics -> Hidráulica Rent, bills, etc -> Alugueres, facturas, etc Sponsor chasing -> Procura de patrocinadores

Source: Adaptated from F1 Racing (March 2007) -> Fonte: Adaptado de F1 Racing (Marzo de 2007) Based on a top team's budget -> Baseado nos orzamentos dunha escudería punteira.

I really hope you can do it, it would be a great boost for our article. Greetings! --Fryant 00:18, 13 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Thank you very much, Mark. The graph it's perfect, no changes are needed. See you, and thanks again.--Fryant 00:44, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

BAE Systems
Cool - well done! Glad I was of some help. 4u1e 08:58, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

Featured article candidates/2007 Malaysian Grand Prix
I've renominated this for FA status. Any chance you could comment on the article at the above link? Much appreciated if you could comment! :) Davnel03 14:45, 20 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks! Tony put this comment down:

''Here are random samples of why the whole article needs careful copy-editing. Don't just correct these; find a new person to look at it.''
 * So, if I ask nicely, would you mind having a look at the article, because is seems like he doesn't want me to look at it. Davnel03 17:30, 23 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Doesn't matter, I'll get on to your and Tony's opposition reasons now. Davnel03 17:43, 23 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Made changes based on your comments. Please comment on them, and register your support (or oppose!). Davnel03 18:27, 23 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Not one for wanting to make bad comments on your change, but I have a feeling your last change (moving the references) could backfire on me. Quote from peer review the article went through (diff):
 * The text now is much less broken up and reads better as a result while still having all facts backed up by a source. I've also noticed a spelling mistake, inital, in the original. Go through and try and consolidate the citations and move them so while still in an appropriate place, they break up the text as little as possible. AlexJ 13:01, 1 September 2007 (UTC)
 * The change you have made is breaking up the text more. Not saying it's bad, but someone may say the exact difference later. Davnel03 19:10, 23 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Sorry if the comment towards Tony seems bad tempered, it's not intended to be bad tempered. Thanks for the comments you have made so far, much appreciative. Thanks, Davnel03 10:22, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

McLaren MP4-23
This had recently been discussed on WT:F1 regarding someone creating the BMW Sauber F1.08 article in a nearly identical fashion. It was argued that even though we may know the title and drivers for these cars, other things such as suspension setup and yes, even what oil is used, would be assumptions and "Crystal Balling". Hence BMW Sauber F1.08 was redirected to BMW Sauber, so that page can be recreated whenever the car is unveiled and we can verify the statistics. When I initially moved the page, I assumed McLaren MP4-23 was created by the same person who had created BMW Sauber F1.08, however I realized afterwards that it was another user. The359 23:54, 23 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Fair points. However while I grant you the oil is a prediction [a safe one, though], all the other things are fact. McLaren can't use anything but Bridgestones next year, the Mercedes engines are homolgated and Tim Goss is confirmed as chief designer on the McLaren website. To summarise my point - there are things that are fact, but your edit summary didn't recognise that or explain your rationale fully for redirecting the page. But anyway, the facts are so bare as to be not very useful, waiting won't hurt! Thanks for taking the time to respond. Mark83 00:04, 24 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Yes, that was actually the largest reasoning behind the decision. Those few facts that were indeed able to be confirmed were not really enough to warrent an article at this point.  Instead of merely deleting, the articles are redirected so that someone can resurrect the older edit later on.  If I had realized it was a different user creating MP4-23 I would have explained it better instead of assuming it was the same user who already knew the situation.  The359 00:45, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

Nancy Reagan FAC
Hey there Mark. You helped out a lot with the Ronald Reagan article during it's FAC. I don't know if you have an interest in First Lady Nancy Reagan, but I've nominated her for FAC here, and was wondering if you could take a look. Thanks and good luck, Happyme22 02:50, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

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Formula One
Added a load of CN tags. Hope this helps! Davnel03 21:21, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

Sweeping curves
Yep, a picture tells a thousand words and all that. If you can make the caption more appropriate to the article and not just explain what sweeping curves are, please do! AlexJ 23:48, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

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Pauline Fowler
Hiya, just curious, do you feel that your concerns have been adequately addressed at the Pauline Fowler FA nom? Or do you feel that there are still outstanding issues? Would you be willing to post a "Support" at the nom? I'm concerned that things seem to have kind of stalled there, and I'm trying to figure out what I can do, in order to get things moving. Thanks, --Elonka 01:09, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

FAC The World Is Not Enough (song)
All your comments are answered. So do say something in support. Vikrant Phadkay (talk) 16:16, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

BAE
Mark83 said: Re. the apology - don't worry about it. Thanks for adding the info about the CAAT/Corner House judicial review, I've been meaning to do that. Thanks also for adding the Mark Thomas article - interesting reading.


 * Yeah. I was conned by MH, so feel much the same as Mark Thomas.  Vernon White  . . . Talk 10:42, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

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Happy Holidays
  You got a Christmas card! → → →

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Tony Blair
Good call on the 2012 bit, I didn't even consider that that wasn't history lol ;)

Re:The Stig
I tend to revert all mentions of said HSE report as, whilst it can be used to imply that Collins is the Stig. The line itself is very ambiguous (it doesn't expressly say he is the Stig just that he was an advisor) and to interpret it as such borders on Original Research and as such should technically be deleted. There is a discussion about it here where reasons for it not being included are stated. Hope that makes things more clear but feel free to ask more if you so wish. Happy editing Agent452 (talk) 00:29, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

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Cut and paste moves
Hi, I saw your comment on Blow of Light's talk page regarding cut and paste moves. Could you take a look at Malagueña and Malagueña (song)? There is definitely a cut-and-paste from November, but I don't know how to fix it. Thanks in advance, Iamunknown 22:59, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

Holston Army Ammunition Plant
I just created this article; I'd appreciate any contributions or corrections to it, or discussion on its talk page. For example, it's not clear to me whether it is synonymous with the Holston Ordnance Works, which I've currently made a redirect to the article. Thanks. Wdfarmer (talk) 09:55, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

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Max Mosley
Hi, hope all is good in your corner of the wikiverse. Any chance you could cast an eye over Max Mosley? In particular the latter parts (FIA president on), which I'm not especially happy with at the moment. It's currently GA, but there's a peer review running at WikiProject Biography/Peer review/Max Mosley, if you'd care to comment. Cheers. 4u1e (talk) 17:48, 13 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Hi, I noticed you your helpful comments re Max Mosley on the featured article candidate project page, thank you for being so thorough. Some of the things that you have pointed out have stayed in the article for historical reasons due to an edit war that ended about six months ago and in all likelyhood could quite easily be droppped now. Will get onto it. Tommy turrell (talk) 18:51, 21 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Hi Mark - thanks for the comments and other work. All good stuff. Was it you that added the refs from Rawnsley's book? If so, could you add the page numbers as well? Ta very much. 4u1e (talk) 13:06, 25 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Cheers, much appreciated. 4u1e (talk) 16:48, 25 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Ah, I wondered about that! Good find. 4u1e (talk) 19:16, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

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Reply
Mark, thank you for explaining yourself so clearly. I misunderstood your comment. Sorry. Zach4636 (talk) 13:32, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

United States presidential election, 2008
Hello Mark83. Would you take your 'remove images' request to the that article's discussion page. Also, when you prematurely removed the Dems & Reps images? you left the 'other party' images. GoodDay (talk) 21:08, 1 March 2008 (UTC)

I personally am not concerned if you remove the images. I just prefer that, if you do remove them? remove them all. GoodDay (talk) 21:35, 1 March 2008 (UTC)

Okie Dokie. GoodDay (talk) 22:45, 1 March 2008 (UTC)

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Re:Edit summaries
I'm sorry, I didn't realise the spoiler potential of those edit summaries! Thanks for bringing this to my attention - I'll be more careful in future.-- Diniz (talk) 00:09, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

BAE Systems
Thanks for the note on my Userpage. Do you think Vertical takeoff doesn't merit a mention in the BAE Systems article? I don't have the book in front of me but recollect it as making important statements about the change process in customer relations, introduced by Dick Evans. Vernon White '''. . . Talk''' 21:16, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

Blindly Reverting
Thank you very much for your concern I have addressed it and will revert the edit back. But watch what you do in the future. Hot200245 (talk) 15:55, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks for recognising your mistake and getting back to me with the offer of reverting. I have now done so. However I have to object to your comment "But watch what you do in the future" in the strongest possible terms. You made a mistake (twice carelessly reverting) which I called you on. I fail to see where I have failed to 'watch what I do'. I would have thought an apology would be more appropriate than a rebuke. But whatever, let's move on. Best regards, Mark83 (talk) 16:04, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

Max Mosley
I think that works. Responded at Talk:Max Mosley. -- Ricky81682 (talk) 22:33, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

George Best Belfast City Airport
Back in August 2006 you added a comment on this page that the airport was considering providing access via Holywood Exchange. Its a good idea, but what was this statement based on? I keep a close eye on road developments but this is the only place I've been that idea mooted. Since there have been no developments in the year and a half since the comment was added, perhaps it should be removed? --Tireoghain2 (talk) 23:02, 2 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Thanks for your reply. I'm happy to leave it for now until you've looked to see if you have the reference. It would be good if it was true, as closing the existing entrance is the only real obstacle to extending the M3 motorway as far as Knocknagoney when the current Sydenham Bypass is widened in a few years! --Tireoghain2 (talk) 15:29, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

Saab naming/spelling
Mark, since you've commented on this issue in the past, I wanted to inform you that I have "been bold" and made some changes in an attempt to make the formatting consistent, both across the Saab aircraft articles, and with Saab's website. My rationale is explained at Talk:Saab. If you decide to revert my changes, or make minor ones, I won't revert back, but will discuss if I don't agree. Thanks. - BillCJ (talk) 19:30, 18 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Yeah, the "AB" issue was one I was trying to deal with too. I looked at the page, and saw that "SAAB" in the Lead was formatted as "SA AB", which is utterly unsupportable! Anyway, I expect to be reverted by the person doing the main POV pushing on this when he discovers the changes, so if you can back me up to whatever length you feel that you can, I'd appreciate it. - BillCJ (talk) 03:18, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

1995 Japanese Grand Prix
Hi Mark83. As a motor racing fan who edits in the motor racing field of articles, I was wondering whether you could review the 1995 Japanese Grand Prix article, as it is currently up for Peer review. The Peer review is located here. Thanks, D.M.N. (talk) 21:31, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

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Sanders Associates
I'm not sure it working, turning Sanders Associates into a redirect to Lockheed-Sanders - because the company is now part of BAE Systems. If it's a redirect presumably it should go to the current name, but that would make incorporating the Lockheed history complicated.

Why not leave Sanders as a separate article for those who care about Sanders as a historical entity (after all, who else is going to click on a Sanders Associates link?) - but make sure we have a good introduction about its post-Sanders, with links to articles on the Lockheed and then the BAE firms, so people interested in its current status could quickly follow it? - DavidWBrooks (talk) 18:31, 3 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm right?!?!? I don't think that's ever happened in a wikipedia discussion before ... - DavidWBrooks (talk) 23:54, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

similar aircraft (Eurofighter)
May be you should and i apologise for not reading your link to the talk page as I am new to editing. I suppose besides Rafale other aircraft like mig-29k/OVT/M are certainly comparable to typhoon.The consensus on the talk page was arrived in late 2007 which is a bit outdated now. The old Gripen is certainly not comparable but the new gripen demontrator certainly is. Its almost a new aircraft because of certain changes in airframe and avionics and those changes must be considered. Click Here This web site provides a good review of the new Gripen demontrator. please check it out. regards Daredevil555 (talk) 15:47, 14 May 2008 (UTC)


 * I dont think opening up the discussion would serve any useful purpose as you suggest, but there is nothing stopping one of the serial adders of comparable aircraft to open up the discussion if they want to. MilborneOne (talk) 17:36, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

Morrisons, ASDA, Sainsbury's
Instead of just blanket reverting my contributions it may have been pertinent to better check the source. It features a map which shows which postcode areas are dominated by each supermarket. If you took the time (as I did) to compare it to a postcode map you will find that all the information I added was entirely correct and verifiable. Asdfasdf1231234 ( talk ) 16:44, 22 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Hi, thanks for replying. I accept your opinion but please see here for my reasoning why it should stay. Thanks, Asdfasdf1231234 ( talk ) 13:52, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

Alan Kulwicki review
I don't think we've ever met before, but you were recommended by a friend. I spent months working on the article for the deceased NASCAR champion Kulwicki. It easily passed GA, but it recently failed FA. I learned a lot about FA articles during the FAC, and I spent very much time redoing things in the article from the recommendations during the FAC. Would you review the article at FA level and comment on its talk page? There are no NASCAR editors with FA experience (there are no NASCAR-related FA), and mentored me on the GA process (with the Mario Andretti article). 4u1e is mainly off-wiki right now. There's no rush. I appreciate your comments.  Royal broil  12:21, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

X Factor infobox
Hi there,

Do you know how we can change the orange infobox that appears on X Factor series articles so that Osbourne can be listed as a 'Former judge'? Wiki edit Jonny (talk) 17:28, 6 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Did you just change it? :) Wiki edit Jonny (talk) 18:11, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

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Eurofighter - Popular Culture - Top Gear Test
Thank you so much for helping me create that! I'm new to Wikipedia so could you help me whenever possible? --RSSTRATFORD (talk) 17:51, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

So you apologized, so what?
As I said before, you are a JACKASS and I have to treat you well and with respect? Screw you and how YOU treat others. I am treating you the exact way you treat others, and thus you should expect to be treated the same way in return. KenL (talk) 18:20, 12 August 2008 (UTC)
 * [[Image:Information.svg|25px]] Please see Wikipedia's no personal attacks policy. Comment on content, not on contributors. Personal attacks damage the community and deter users. Note that continued personal attacks will lead to blocks for disruption. Please stay cool and keep this in mind while editing. Mark83 (talk) 19:00, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

1995 Japan FAC
Hi Mark. To avoid seperating discussion, I've moved your comment about Schumacher's image up to the center of the page where there was a discussion already going on about images in the article as a whole. I hope you don't mind, but I've mainly done it to keep discussions regarding images centralized. I've also commented back. Thanks, D.M.N. (talk) 12:14, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

Replied
Hey,

Don't know if you've got my page on your watchlist, so just to let you know I've replied. Thanks for your post; you were right to message me :) — Wiki edit Jonny (talk) 12:42, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

Ron Dennis page modification
Dear Mark83, my suggestion that you may have a commercial interest in maintaining the entry on Ron Dennis is certainly unverifiable. It was merely an opinion based upon the speed with which my own easily verifiable modification was removed from what I regard as a generally correct summary of Ron's motosport career weakened by hagiographic elements and expressions of unverifiable opinion that attempt to diminish the doubts about his honesty that must occur to the objective observer after the events last year. I know little about Wikipedia but I often use it myself. I see that you are an administrator. I would have expected you to have attempted to trace the source materials behind my little modification yourself. It is possible that my opinion about your motives is wrong. It is possible that you are merely intellectually lazy. Or I may be wrong about that too. Whatever the reason behind your intervention it has certainly been a waste of my time. The comments I want to add are attributable to the FIA president, Max Mosley, and are recorded in the public domain. I will be adding the references to my observation as soon as I work out how to do this. In the meantime, it is naturally of the greatest importance to know the age, background, employer, and qualification within the area of comment, of busy administrators like yourself. Good faith cannot be freely assumed especially when contributors use pseudonyms and cannot be contacted directly. Based on your lack of interest in the source of my own additions, and the speed with which you have removed them, a good nickname for you could be "Ron's guard-dog". I feel disinclined to offer any apology to a pseudonym, though I thank you for such a polite and measured response. As you say yourself with regard to another matter, it is the accuracy of the content that is the issue. My mod was a reasonable addition and was factually correct. It would add important background for anyone who was looking at the page seeking an understanding of Ron Dennis. You should not have been so hasty. Peter Graham White (talk) 14:39, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

My Unconditional Apology To You
Dear Mark83, I now believe that I really do owe you an apology and I have only my own lack of knowledge of the Wikipedia rules to excuse this lapse. Having re-read your comment when you removed my addition "All true I believe, but citations needed" I realise that seem to have been completely fair to me. I thought at the time that the "All true I believe" referred to the original text rather than to my revision. I now see that you were saying that you believed that my modification was true, but that it needed citations before it could be allowed to remain in place. My suspicions about your motives were aroused when I saw that you had intervened in postings about BAE systems because this is a company with various indirect associations with McLaren. Many of the present management were former BAE employees. I completely withdraw my earlier comments and will take pains to avoid personal remarks in any future contibutions to Wikipedia.

I have now added the citations needed to justify my addition to the entry on Ron Dennis. I fully accept that these rules are needed (though I still wonder why so much unsupported opinion has been allowed to appear in this article in the first place. Best wishes Peter Graham White (talk) 16:31, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

Supercarrier
Mark, some just added alot of reference material to the Supercarrier article. It is very detailed in places. The problem is that the reference notes are more than twice as long as the main text! I don't have a clue what to do with it, if anything. Thanks. - BillCJ (talk) 00:52, 22 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Thanks. - BillCJ (talk) 18:15, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

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Rolls-Royce Limited
Hi Mark, I think you are the original creator of this article. To me it has far too many car images now and no images of their aircraft engines, would like to balance it up. There doesn't seem to be a RR car article for all these images to go in. Just wanted your thoughts. Cheers Nimbus (talk) 01:23, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

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Royal Ordnance
You moved Royal Ordnance to another article without discussion, which is why I reinstated it and started to update it. I will not fall foul of the 3 revert rule. But I will reinstate it at a later date. I assume perhaps from your user name Mark83 and you are a twenty(ish) old rewriting history; perhaps I am totally wrong, but that is the way you appear (to me) to be behaving, even if you are an admin (which you are it seems). There is absolutely no reason why there cannot be an article on the Royal Ordnance Factories, Royal Ordnance plc, BAe and BAE Systems Land Systems etc etc. Royal Ordnance was around sufficiently long for changes to have occurred. The world existed before BAE Systems even if you cannot or will not accept it.Pyrotec (talk) 22:59, 15 March 2009 (UTC)


 * If you care to check the history of Royal Ordnance as it was before it was moved, you will find that I added the bit about privatisation and you expanded it (and also corrected a dating error): the date is 29 November 2005. My objection is the move of Royal Ordnance and your subsequent reversion of my reinstatement and subsequent expansion of it. I have no objections to your BAE Systems Land Systems Munitions, but I see no valid reason why it precludes a separate article on Royal Ordnance. You see no reason for separate articles. The difference is as simple as that.


 * I'm happy to acknowledge that your contribution to bringing BAE Systems to FA was substantial, however the timeline entirely excludes The Royal Ordnance Factories / Royal Ordnance / Royal Small Arms Factory, Avis, etc. Wikipedia, it is suggested, is run by twenty year olds re-writing history. A limited amount of your recent edit history is going into articles removing Royal Ordnance and replacing it with BAE Systems Land Systems Munitions. BAE Systems Land Systems Munitions was formed at a particular moment in time, actions that pre-date that event were taken by Royal Ordnance and/or other organisations. Editing articles to suggest that they were done by BAE Systems Land Systems Munitions is re-writing history.Pyrotec (talk) 00:03, 16 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Sorry to have another go, I think you may have missunderstood my comment in BROACH warhead - the reference that was provided was this one, a BAE Systems press release of 5 November 2004 which clearly states BAE Systems RO Defence. That is what I mean by rewriting history - in your latest change there is a new reference to a different press release with a different date, that mentions BAE Systems Land Systems Munitions.Pyrotec (talk) 00:18, 16 March 2009 (UTC)


 * I'm not sure if this dispute is going to be resolvable. This is not meant to condescending (just in case), companies are "legal persons": they have a precise date of creation that is equivalent to a real person's date of birth. There is a business progression (consolidation or contraction depending on the point of view) from the date of formation of RO Plc (for short) to RO Defence, which involved disposal of assets and creation or purchase of new assets, and that went thought into BAE Systems Land Systems and then BAE Systems Land Systems Munitions. I'm not all that interested in the BAE Systems Land Systems bit, but I am interested in RO Plc / RO Defence and some of the acquired companies, such as Astra Holdings, Moulden Chemie, etc. I think there is sufficient information out there to support two separate (post privatisation of the ROFs, etc) articles: one on RO plc / RO Defence and one on the BAE Systems Land Systems (& etc). There is some annoyance on my part, which you probably detected, on the conversion of the RO article into a BAE Systems Land Systems Munitions and the apparent "air brushing" of RO out history by selective use of dated references (I don't want to over dwell on the latter). I have no objections to you producing an article on BAE Systems Land Systems; I just want a different one on "RO", which will have legally defined start and end dates.


 * Objectively your BAE Systems Land Systems Munitions article is hardly about that subject at all. Its an RO / RO Defence article with a BAE infobox and two sentences tacked; neither is it a Category: Defunct companies of the United Kingdom. It needs serious expansion, and I'm not particularly interested on anything in the last (almost) decade. Incidentally there is not all that much about RO plc as a company in the article, either. A separate (and different) article on "RO", presuming that it can be created, is not going to damage your article. You have multiple choices, e.g. of ignoring it, linking it via {main} {seealso}, etc, etc.Pyrotec (talk) 13:38, 16 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Yes:
 * Keep Royal Ordnance Factory for the history up until privatisation.
 * Recreate Royal Ordnance but refocus it on the history from the intention to privatise until the dropping of the RO Defence name, i.e. remove duplication with the above article. (It can be summarised and linked via {main} or {see also}).
 * Keep BAE Systems Land Systems Munitions but, as you say refocus it on the recent history.
 * Woops, I see the point about RO Plc it may still exist as a (dormant) company. Your idea of dropping of the name RO Defence and the formation of BAE Systems Land Systems works well for me.
 * RO Plc, it seems had four subsidiary companies, RO Ammunition, etc; the ex (ICI/IMI) Agency Factories were brought "in house"; and there were site disposals, so there is plenty of scope for a separate article on RO plc. (BAe owned and/or had a joint venture with the Trafalgar House (company) to redevelop surplus sites).
 * Thanks for the reassurance, it is not always possible to work out aims & objectives during a change-revert-change cycle.Pyrotec (talk) 14:22, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

Spies "stealing" the CdG's reactor shielding
Mark, could you take a look at this diff and the following discussions? I think we're dealing with someone with a less than adequate grasp of the English language here, as their changes are worse that what they are trying to fix! Since you added the original source, I wanted to make sure you were aware of this issue. Obviously the text in the article could use some clarification on this, but without the original source, I'm hesitant to change it myself. Thanks. - BillCJ (talk) 09:00, 21 March 2009 (UTC) =Selex Galileo= Looks fine to me. Should really have done it myself... Ta. Peridon (talk) 18:05, 23 March 2009 (UTC)
 * I tried finding it on copyviol, but could only find the start (down to UK) as viol of something on Milkround. Was saving that in case spam didn't work... Peridon (talk) 18:08, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

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An exciting opportunity to get involved!
As a member of the Aviation WikiProject or one of its subprojects, you may be interested in testing your skills in the Aviation Contest! I created this contest, not to pit editor against editor, but to promote article improvement and project participation and camraderie. Hopefully you will agree with its usefulness. Sign up here, read up on the rules here, and discuss the contest here. The first round of the contest may not start until September 1st-unless a large number of editors signup and are ready to compete immediately! Since this contest is just beginning, please give feedback here, or let me know what you think on my talkpage. -  Trevor  MacInnis   contribs  23:11, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of BAE Systems Electronics and Integrated Solutions
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Type 45
Hi Mark. You removed a photo of HMS Dauntless from the Type 45 destroyer page with the comment "rvt - might be a different ship but basically the same image as above, shows nothing new to reader." I beg to differ. The other photos used show incomplete vessels. The one you removed may not be an award-winning photo, and there may be more suitable pictures, but on the Type 45 page it was the only photo to show a completed vessel after handover to the Navy, and the only vessel shown flying the White Ensign, and IMO more appropriate than a photo of incomplete vessels. George.Hutchinson (talk) 20:39, 2 March 2010 (UTC)


 * Furthermore, the photo was dated 1st March 2010, as was the similar photo of HMS Daring. A glance at the Commons camera metadata will show that the two photos of Daring and Dauntless were shot within minutes of each other, the two ships operating as a fleet unit for the very first time. An event that can never be repeated. The two photos are notable in themselves for that very reason. George.Hutchinson (talk) 20:55, 2 March 2010 (UTC)


 * Hi George. Thanks for taking the time to leave a comment. The first thing I would like to say is I have no issue with quality etc., I am incredibly grateful for uploads of this sort. However I am a bit confused as to your objection to my removing it. My thinking is that the image File:HMS_Dauntless-1.jpg is almost identical to File:HMS Daring-1.jpg, and contrary to what you said above both are flying the White Ensign. Also the comment "the two ships operating as a fleet unit for the very first time" is irrelevant in my view when discussing the image, because they don't show the vessels together. Had it been an image such as this I would understand.
 * I can't agree that the images of partially built ships are less appropriate. Images of the construction phase are IMO interesting to the reader, i.e. showing important milestones in the project. Mark83 (talk) 23:50, 2 March 2010 (UTC)

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