User talk:Marksomnian/Archive 2

Flag of Portugal.
The real flag of this country is blue and white. Mitram.Tag (talk) 15:27, 16 June 2016 (UTC)
 * What do you mean by "Real"? The flag was blue and white until 1910, when the green and red was declared the current. --Sincerely, Marksomnian. (talk) 15:30, 16 June 2016 (UTC)

Yes, that's correct, when the republic was proclaimed the national symbols (Flag, national anthem, currency etc..) were changed, the fact is, that new symbols only represent the republic and not the nation as a whole, the republicans killed the king, a crime that was never judged, with the help of maçonary a carbonary (terrorist organisation), many people will never accept the new symbols, the flag is blue and white since the first king of Portugal (XII century), while the green and red represent the colours of the republican party at the time, a national flag should represent a nation and not a regime, that's why many people will never accept it as their flag, that is the flag of the republicans, unfortunately for them, not everyone in Portugal is republican, only 8% of the population was in favour of a republic in 1910, the republic brought corruption and it only worked during Salazar times,between, that yellow symbol in the middle of the current flag represents the United Kingdom of Portugal, Brazil and the Algarve, or just Brazil, since Brazil is independent since the XIX century , there's no need to have it on the flag, not only the flag but the national anthem is also a shame, the original letter was "Against the British march march" thanks to the British ultimatum, they just changed some words and made it the national anthem, thanks for reading. Mitram.Tag (talk) 16:47, 16 June 2016 (UTC)
 * What you said may be true, however the green-and-red flag is the one that is most commonly associated with Portugal, especially in secondary sources, which Wikipedia is based on, and should therefore be the one on the article. --Sincerely, Marksomnian. (talk) 16:56, 16 June 2016 (UTC)

That's true and I understand that, I can't do anything neither you guys, but there's some stuff in history that are truly unfair and this is the case, I can't change the fact that the red and green flag is now the official national flag and the flag foreigners associate with this country, but in my heart that flag means nothing to me (and many people) and the other one does, I'm not even going to comment the aesthetic of the new flag, so in a certain point of view, it wasn't vandalism, it is what I consider my flag and the flag of my nation without taking in consideration what is official and what is not. While I was editing I was having some problems because I'm on iPad and everytime I wanted to write the text was not appearing only the keyboard and the top of the text, so it was harder to edit and deleted stuff and had to rewrite, Thanks for reading. Mitram.Tag (talk) 17:34, 16 June 2016 (UTC)


 * I just thought that changing the image of the flag on the main article was vandalism. I take that back, however since the green-and-red is the flag nearly everyone in the world associates with Portugal, it should be the one on the page. Wikipedia is supposed to have a neutral point of view, and it addresses (what I perceive to be) your viewpoint on the flag's article, where it says "Currently this flag is used by Portuguese monarchists." Thank you for your understanding. --Sincerely, Marksomnian. (talk) 17:42, 16 June 2016 (UTC)

Can I propose something? Put both flags on the main article since it is the one most people see, put the blue and white there somewhere on the top with a note ("Currently this flag is used by Portuguese monarchists") and add the date 1830-1910 as an additional information about the country, I think that should be possible since it has a neutral point of view, just a normal fact, thanks. Mitram.Tag (talk) 18:09, 16 June 2016 (UTC)


 * This sounds like a good idea in theory. However, to me it seems like it would be giving undue weight to the monarchist movement, as I am fairly sure that Portuguese monarchists are a minority and, while they should be mentioned in the main article (or have their own article, which I am not sure if they do), having something like this on the top of the article seems undue - especially since the article is about Portugal, not about Portuguese politics. --Sincerely, Marksomnian. (talk) 18:28, 16 June 2016 (UTC)

Yes but we have to take in consideration that the blue and white flag is the historical flag of Portugal, I talk about the 1830-1910 for the simple fact that it was the last one before the proclamation of the republic, and I didn't think about giving undue weight to the monarchist movement, and in my opinion, Portugal should only be a monarchy again if the majority of the people so wish, and I don't think that will happen so doesn't matter much. I wouldn't care much if the republicans had kept the national flag the way it was (and remove the crown), that's what they should have done, but no, they made the flag (colours) of the Republican Party the national flag, actually for what I know the red is the republic while the green is the maçonary, something that I can't stand, so that flag is political while the old one is not (with the exception of the crown), but thanks anyway, I'm just wasting your time and it's not your fault, I'm sorry. Mitram.Tag (talk) 19:12, 16 June 2016 (UTC)


 * Not at all. This discussion is a perfect example of the Bold-Revert-Discuss cycle, and I can safely say I learned something about Portuguese politics from this, if nothing else. Thank you for partaking in civilised dicourse about the future of Wikipedia! --Sincerely, Marksomnian. (talk) 19:22, 16 June 2016 (UTC)

Haha, I see, thanks. Mitram.Tag (talk) 19:41, 16 June 2016 (UTC)

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The Signpost: 26 April 2018
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The Signpost: 24 May 2018
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