User talk:Martin Ottmann

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Possibly unfree Image:RTC-1.jpg
An image that you uploaded or altered, Image:RTC-1.jpg, has been listed at Possibly unfree images because its copyright status is disputed. If the image's copyright status cannot be verified, it may be deleted. You may find more information on the image description page. You are welcome to add comments to its entry at if you are interested in it not being deleted. Thank you. Jusjih (talk) 23:19, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

Possibly unfree Image:Application-8718-CSI.pdf
An image that you uploaded or altered, Image:Application-8718-CSI.pdf, has been listed at Possibly unfree images because its copyright status is disputed. If the image's copyright status cannot be verified, it may be deleted. You may find more information on the image description page. You are welcome to add comments to its entry at if you are interested in it not being deleted. Thank you. Sfan00 IMG (talk) 10:57, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

Possibly unfree Image:Application-8718-SMI.pdf
An image that you uploaded or altered, Image:Application-8718-SMI.pdf, has been listed at Possibly unfree images because its copyright status is disputed. If the image's copyright status cannot be verified, it may be deleted. You may find more information on the image description page. You are welcome to add comments to its entry at if you are interested in it not being deleted. Thank you. Sfan00 IMG (talk) 11:13, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

Assistance
If I were you I would respond to that question asked of you if you have the actual FOIA request, because that in addition to the document would probably be sufficient to show that the federal government did publicly release the information. Also, I would highly suggest that instead of uploading all of these images here, any images that are public domain should be uploaded instead to Wikimedia Commons - http://commons.wikimedia.org -- Cirt (talk) 12:08, 28 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Hello, thanks for your response. I have somehow the problem resolved for the time being. Check out the the discussion.


 * What I don't understand is why you propose Wikimedia Commons for uploading these documents. What is better there? I thought that I should encyclopedical content upload on wikipedia and I regard these documents as such, as they are references. Another problem on wikimedia is that you have to  upload "original" federal government documents, which would cause a huge problem for the IRS records. Wikipedia on the other hand is not that strict.


 * Another question: I have a shitload of OSA documents from Greece and Russia. They were obtained from the courts and the federal prosecutor's office - public record. How can I upload them here? Greetings. Geo1967 (talk) 20:21, 28 April 2008 (UTC)


 * OSA Docs are still copyright even if public record, So based on my current understanding of policy

here they cannot be uploaded on any WMF project, Sorry. Sfan00 IMG (talk) 20:42, 28 April 2008 (UTC)


 * What if they are exhibits in a court record, as it is the case with the Greek OSA documents?Geo1967 (talk) 21:11, 28 April 2008 (UTC)


 * My understanding was that even though they were cited as evidence in a court case, that fact did not change thier copyright status. You need to speak a lawyer, as Wikipedia cannot give legal advice Sfan00 IMG (talk) 12:32, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

Borrowed Robes....
No I am NOT an admin, as you claimed in your enquiry to Cirt. Sfan00 IMG (talk) 20:44, 28 April 2008 (UTC)


 * I have not claimed it, I just thought you were one. Geo1967 (talk) 21:13, 28 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Ah, OK then :) Sfan00 IMG (talk) 12:31, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

Template for the CoS/IRS documents
That is excellent :) Sfan00 IMG (talk) 11:45, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

Tell me
Why your mass uploading of documents is not an WP:OR issue. Thanks. Shutterbug (talk) 22:31, 14 May 2008 (UTC)


 * That's why: "Wikipedia does not publish original research or original thought. This includes unpublished facts, arguments, speculation, and ideas; and any unpublished analysis or synthesis of published material that serves to advance a position. This means that Wikipedia is not the place to publish your own opinions or experiences. Citing sources and avoiding original research are inextricably linked: to demonstrate that you are not presenting original research, you must cite reliable sources that provide information directly related to the topic of the article, and that directly support the information as it is presented."


 * Because it's not *original research*, because I am providing *verifiable references*. Read the article again, which you are refering to. Have a good day.Martin Ottmann (talk) 22:59, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

Public Domain documents and Wikimedia Commons
I highly recommend that instead of uploading all of these public domain documents to Wikipedia directly, you instead upload them to Wikimedia Commons. http://commons.wikimedia.org That way, the files could be shared across other wikimedia projects in other languages. Let me know if you need any help/advice figuring that out. Cirt (talk) 13:20, 3 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Before I'll go any further into that: when you upload a US government document on wikimedia commons, the license category, which you have to choose, states: "Original work of the US Federal government". The documents, which I had uploaded, are not "original works". They are public record of the Federal government, but not "original work".


 * "'License: Works made *by* employees of the U.S. federal government or its agencies (such as the NOAA, the USFWS, the NPS, and many others) as part of their duties are in the public domain in the U.S. [...]'"


 * That's it. Martin Ottmann (talk) 00:02, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

Well if they are public domain they are public domain, and can be on Wikimedia Commons. I am sure they must have an appropriate license tag for that. I think is appropriate for documents entered into public record in a United States Federal Court. Cirt (talk) 18:48, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Request for user name change onWikimedia Commons
I am currently requesting a user name change on Wikimedia Commons from "Geo1967" to "Martin Ottmann". Martin Ottmann (talk) 21:16, 18 August 2008 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free media (Image:RTC-symbol.gif)
Thanks for uploading Image:RTC-symbol.gif. The media description page currently specifies that it is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, it is currently orphaned, meaning that it is not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the media was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that media for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

If you have uploaded other unlicensed media, please check whether they're used in any articles or not. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that all non-free media not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. BJBot (talk) 03:16, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

Possibly unfree Image:Application-501-CoSWUS.pdf
An image that you uploaded or altered, Image:Application-501-CoSWUS.pdf, has been listed at Possibly unfree images because its copyright status is unclear or disputed. If the image's copyright status cannot be verified, it may be deleted. You may find more information on the image description page. You are welcome to add comments to its entry at if you are interested in it not being deleted. Thank you. -Nard 01:24, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

Additional suggestion
Good luck with your work moving stuff to Wikimedia Commons. An additional suggestion would be to also have transcribed versions of text documents at Wikisource, which could prove to be quite useful for research purposes. Cirt (talk) 01:32, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

TfD nomination of Template:CoS-IRS
Template:CoS-IRS has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for Deletion page. Thank you. ViperSnake151 21:12, 24 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I have asked for some outside advice regarding this, will keep you posted but at the moment still waiting for feedback/clarification myself. Cirt (talk) 23:43, 24 September 2008 (UTC)


 * OK. Thanks a lot. Martin Ottmann (talk) 23:47, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

In any event until we get more clarity on this particular issue I'd suggest you hold off on further uploads of this nature, instead it might be helpful to work on documents related to federal court cases at sister projects Wikimedia Commons and Wikisource. Cirt (talk) 00:03, 25 September 2008 (UTC)


 * They deleted about 30% of my Scientology-related uploads on wikipedia within the past 24 hours. I am not doing anything anymore for a while. I am sick and tired of it.Martin Ottmann (talk) 21:09, 26 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Okay perhaps a break is a good idea. I am sorry I have not been more helpful but I have not been able to get more knowledgeable feedback on this. If need be the images could always be reuploaded or even restored from deletion later on if the copyright issues are nailed down and turn out to be okay - but there are plenty of other ways to be helpful and contribute to this topic in other areas. We'd love for you to continue to contribute but a break might be best for now. Cirt (talk) 21:12, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

Possibly unfree Image:License-Agreement-RTC-CSI.pdf
An image that you uploaded or altered, Image:License-Agreement-RTC-CSI.pdf, has been listed at Possibly unfree images because its copyright status is unclear or disputed. If the image's copyright status cannot be verified, it may be deleted. You may find more information on the image description page. You are welcome to add comments to its entry at if you are interested in it not being deleted. Thank you. Stifle (talk) 13:17, 25 September 2008 (UTC)


 * I see from your talk page that you're working on transitioning some of these documents to commons; is that something that should delay their deletion here? I note that several of your PDFs are up for Speedy Deletion under I10 - Non images not used in articles. If you'd like to hold off, I'm sure we can use hangon or some such. Please advise - thanks! UltraExactZZ Claims~ Evidence 14:17, 25 September 2008 (UTC)


 * All my uploaded pdf-documents have been used in references in a number of articles on Scientology organizations. You guys were quite efficient in deleting half of my uploaded documents. Thank you very much for your "speedy" deleting. Several hours of researching and uploading going down the drain. Couldn't you just fucking wait another 24 hours?? Martin Ottmann (talk) 21:05, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

Martin Ottmann: Please calm down and remain civil. Using inappropriate language in discussion is not conducive to positive dialogue and nothing constructive will come of it. Cirt (talk) 21:08, 26 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Do you know how many hours and how many days I have spent going through documents, putting them on wikipedia and getting these articles on Scientology organizations in shape? And these people just wipe it away within 24 hours. Who is constructive here?? Sorry, I don't know how else to get my point across here.


 * In any case, I am going off for a few days. Probably there will be nothing left when I'll come back. Ciao. Martin Ottmann (talk) 21:16, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

Image:RTC-1.jpg listed for deletion
An image or media file that you uploaded or altered, Image:RTC-1.jpg, has been listed at Images and media for deletion. Please see the to see why this is (you may have to search for the title of the image to find its entry), if you are interested in it not being deleted. Salix (talk): 10:57, 3 October 2008 (UTC)
 * I've also nominated several related images.

Possibly unfree files Covenant-RTC-CSI-AT.pdf etc
Several pdf files that you uploaded, Image:Covenant-RTC-CSI-AT.pdf, Image:Declaration Guillaume Lesevre 1994.pdf, Image:Declaration Jonathan Epstein 1994.pdf, Image:Declaration Marc Yager 1994.pdf, Image:Declaration Monique Yingling 1994.pdf, Image:Declaration Norman Starkey 1994.pdf, Image:Declaration Raymond Mithoff 1994.pdf, Image:Declaration Thomas Spring 1994.pdf, and Image:Declaration William Walsh 1994.pdf‎ have been listed at Possibly unfree images because their copyright status is unclear or disputed. If the files' copyright status cannot be verified, they may be deleted. You may find more information on the image description pages. You are welcome to add comments to their entry at if you are interested in them not being deleted. Thank you. —teb728 t c 05:49, 11 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Update: The first one was deleted, the rest I moved to Commons. Cirt (talk) 21:58, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

Church of Scientology International
Is there a reason you're undoing my edits to Church of Scientology International? Like this, where Manual of Style (capital letters) and Manual of Style (dates and numbers) clearly say that the corrections I made were appropriate. Wutudidthere...isawit (talk) 10:03, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

Another interesting sister project
You may find Wikisource to be a fun sister project to work on. Here are some interesting documents relating to Scientology, and some of those areas could use additional documents and perhaps also index pages to flesh things out a bit more. Also, could you please enable your email in Special:Preferences? Cirt (talk) 20:58, 18 November 2008 (UTC)


 * I've added my e-mail address to my account. I am aware about wikisource, but first the whole mess in the Scientology-related articles need to be cleaned up. I am talking about the links that go nowhere, after these people removed all the files. I have begun to upload some IRS letters on commons, which were actually sent from the IRS. For the rest I have not yet figured out what to do. Maybe I have to find a coverletter from the IRS which makes it clear that the documents come from the IRS itself. Martin Ottmann (talk) 22:26, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

If you FOIA certain documents from the U.S. federal government, and include the FOIA cover letter, that would help. Cirt (talk) 22:43, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

Scientology arbitration
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