User talk:Mathewignash/Archive 5

Re:Mass deletions
I've not deleted anything, the content can still all be found in the history- I'm merely redirecting articles that do not assert notability to elsewhere. If you feel there's a more suitable redirect, be my guest- I was also going to do something about Gimlet (Transformers), Heinlad, Insecticons, Insectrons, Jawbreaker (Transformers), Leo Prime, Lio Junior, Longhorn (Transformers) and Longrack, all of which have been tagged as having no evidence of notability for a couple of weeks. If you can think of somewhere suitable to redirect them for the time being, that would be great. J Milburn (talk) 20:01, 29 August 2010 (UTC)


 * As a side note, Mathew: the antagonistic tone you adopted at J Milburn's talk page is counterproductive. I appreciate that your contributions to Wikipedia over the last couple of years are squarely rooted in the Transformers world, so it can be jarring when some of that content is removed -- I've had it happen to me. However, off and on for several years, AfDs and talk-page discussions have mentioned that Wikipedia's Transformers-related content is very high on indiscriminate information about topics that do not assert notability. Just as you demonstrated a willingness to alter your behavior with relation to image uploads (i.e. abiding by Wikipedia policies and guidelines for non-free content), I hope you'll demonstrate a willingness to trim and tighten the focus of Wikipedia's overall coverage of Transformers-related content. --EEMIV (talk) 20:10, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Absolutely. There are a lot of Transformers topics which are very worthy of coverage- the films, the games, the television series; with the kind of devotion you show to the subject, our coverage of that kind of material could get to a high quality very quickly. However, we do not need articles on every character or every type of character- Wikipedia will only cover material which has real world notability. J Milburn (talk) 20:15, 29 August 2010 (UTC)

Articles for deletion nomination of Alice (Transformers)
I have nominated Alice (Transformers), an article that you created, for deletion. I do not think that this article satisfies Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion, and have explained why at Articles for deletion/Alice (Transformers). Your opinions on the matter are welcome at that same discussion page; also, you are welcome to edit the article to address these concerns. Thank you for your time.Please contact me if you're unsure why you received this message. Claritas § 20:58, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Also, I don't think it's necessary to recreate it as a redirect to the main Revenge of the Fallen article, since this is a minor character. NotARealWord (talk) 13:25, 5 September 2010 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Mutant (Transformers)


The article Mutant (Transformers) has been proposed for deletion&#32; because of the following concern:
 * Very minor characters in the Transformers universe. No sources cited, absolutely no real-world notability.

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Proposed deletion of Noctorro


The article Noctorro has been proposed for deletion&#32; because of the following concern:
 * Non-notable Transformers character. No reliable sources cited.

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Proposed deletion of Packrat (Transformers)


The article Packrat (Transformers) has been proposed for deletion&#32; because of the following concern:
 * Minor Transformers character. No real-world notability, no reliable sources cited.

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Proposed deletion of Powerhug


The article Powerhug has been proposed for deletion&#32; because of the following concern:
 * Non-notable minor Transformers character. No real-world notability, no reliable sources cited.

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Proposed deletion of Ramulus


The article Ramulus has been proposed for deletion&#32; because of the following concern:
 * Notability not clear. No reliable sources cited, apparently no real-world notability.

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Noctorro and others
Then go ahead and merge it. The character does not warrant their own article. J Milburn (talk) 14:10, 31 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Yep, that sounds great, just go ahead and turn it into a redirect. Same goes for this- just do it. Both would be helpful. J Milburn (talk) 15:56, 31 August 2010 (UTC)
 * I will do just that, but I'm not online a lot for the next few days. Only 10 minutes online at breaks at work 3 times a day until the weekend. I'm not ignoring your request, but I may not get all the articles ASAP. I suggest putting a merge requests on the most unnotable pages, and we'll get started there this weekend. Mathewignash (talk) 19:12, 31 August 2010 (UTC)

I've redirected Noctorro to Maximal (Transformers) and Packrat (Transformers) to list of Maximals, as you said you would be merging them. The page content is still in the history, so a merge shouldn't be difficult. Please change the redirect if you merge the content elsewhere. J Milburn (talk) 11:14, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

Experiment
Since you seem to be interested in transformers, I started a kind of experiment which may give them a fighting chance. — Code Hydro  14:24, 31 August 2010 (UTC)

Other places for Transformers...
AfD seems like quite a harsh place for you at the moment. I would guess you've come across http://tfwiki.net/ and http://transformers.wikia.com/ but if not, at least I've pointed them out to you now. Cheers, Bigger digger (talk) 22:49, 3 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Actually, David Willis had Mathewignash banned from TFWiki. NotARealWord (talk) 13:17, 5 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Oh, I'll keep my nose out then! Ta, Bigger digger (talk) 17:27, 7 September 2010 (UTC)

Articles for deletion nomination of Grindor
I have nominated Grindor, an article that you created, for deletion. I do not think that this article satisfies Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion, and have explained why at Articles for deletion/Grindor. Your opinions on the matter are welcome at that same discussion page; also, you are welcome to edit the article to address these concerns. Thank you for your time.Please contact me if you're unsure why you received this message. Black Kite (t) (c) 23:54, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

Articles for deletion nomination of Scalpel (Transformers)
I have nominated Scalpel (Transformers), an article that you created, for deletion. I do not think that this article satisfies Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion, and have explained why at Articles for deletion/Scalpel (Transformers). Your opinions on the matter are welcome at that same discussion page; also, you are welcome to edit the article to address these concerns. Thank you for your time.Please contact me if you're unsure why you received this message. Black Kite (t) (c) 23:55, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

Articles for deletion nomination of Jolt (Transformers)
I have nominated Jolt (Transformers), an article that you created, for deletion. I do not think that this article satisfies Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion, and have explained why at Articles for deletion/Jolt (Transformers). Your opinions on the matter are welcome at that same discussion page; also, you are welcome to edit the article to address these concerns. Thank you for your time.Please contact me if you're unsure why you received this message. Black Kite (t) (c) 23:56, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Gimlet (Transformers)


The article Gimlet (Transformers) has been proposed for deletion&#32; because of the following concern:
 * Non-notable minor character from television series; no sources besides primary can be found, and what information the article itself has is a mess. I had to delete some as it had been directly stolen from one of the primary sources used.

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Please consider improving the article to address the issues raised. Removing  will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. The speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. — Chromancer  talk/cont 03:02, 5 September 2010 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Jawbreaker (Transformers)


The article Jawbreaker (Transformers) has been proposed for deletion&#32; because of the following concern:
 * Non-notable fictional character stub; no sources and no significant coverage to be found.

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Orphaned non-free image File:Apelinq-3h.jpg
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Proposed deletion of Wolfang


The article Wolfang has been proposed for deletion&#32; because of the following concern:
 * No reliable sources cited, no real-world notability.

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Proposed deletion of Tripledacus


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 * No reliable sources cited, no evidence of real-world notability.

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Proposed deletion of Transmutate


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 * No evidence of any real-world notability, no reliable sources cited.

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Proposed deletion of Torca


The article Torca has been proposed for deletion&#32; because of the following concern:
 * No evidence of real-world notability, no reliable sources cited.

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Proposed deletion of Tasmanian Kid


The article Tasmanian Kid has been proposed for deletion&#32; because of the following concern:
 * No evidence of real-world notability, no reliable sources cited.

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Possibly unfree File:Windrazor-g2.jpg
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Possibly unfree File:Windrazor-energon.jpg
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Optimus Prime is a mess!!
It is a mess I am taking my que from GI Characters such as Scarlett (G.I. Joe) where comics, television and other media appearances. I feel there system is neater and easier to navigate information. 82.25.105.18 (talk) 19:40, 6 September 2010 (UTC)


 * I am taking this to Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents to avoid an edit war 82.25.105.18 (talk) 19:57, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

Possibly unfree File:Manterror-toy.jpg
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BWTF
B's World of Transformers fails to meet a key criterion for reliable sources: there is no evidence of significant editorial oversight, and is little more than a fan's repository of information. Is it not appropriate to cite as a source. --EEMIV (talk) 23:36, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

Article you participated in up for deletion again

 * I am contacting everyone who participated in the previously AFD that Megatron (Beast Era) is up for deletion again. The AFD is at    D r e a m Focus  00:09, 7 September 2010 (UTC)

Userfied page

 * I userfied the content of the deleted page to User:Mathewignash/Ark (Transformers); I didn't handle the deletion for Nemesis, but content from that page could probably be transferred over to here. Mandsford 01:13, 7 September 2010 (UTC)

Nomination of Gimlet (Transformers) for deletion
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Scarem
I did. I don't mind either way, I'm just explaining why I did what I did. J Milburn (talk) 10:25, 7 September 2010 (UTC)

Nomination of Wolfang for deletion
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Proposed deletion of Scuba (Transformers)


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File copyright problem with File:Skywarp-animated.jpg
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Proposed deletion of Rockbuster (Transformers)


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Siblings (Transformers) listed at Redirects for discussion
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Nomination of Blacker (Transformers) for deletion
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Nomination of Breakaway (Transformers) for deletion
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Nomination of Gutcruncher for deletion
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Nomination of Jackpot (Transformers) for deletion
A discussion has begun about whether the article Jackpot (Transformers), which you created or to which you contributed, should be deleted. While contributions are welcome, an article may be deleted if it is inconsistent with Wikipedia policies and guidelines for inclusion, explained in the deletion policy.

The article will be discussed at Articles for deletion/Jackpot (Transformers) until a concensus is reached, and you are welcome to contribute to the discussion.

You may edit the article during the discussion, including to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion template from the top of the article. Blest Withouten Match (talk) 19:04, 7 September 2010 (UTC)

File:Steelhaven.jpg listed for deletion
A file that you uploaded or altered, File:Steelhaven.jpg, has been listed at Files for deletion. Please see the to see why this is (you may have to search for the title of the image to find its entry), if you are interested in it not being deleted. Angus McLellan (Talk) 21:15, 7 September 2010 (UTC)

Caution
I get that you might be under a bit of stress, but comments like these are in no way constructive to the encyclopedia. Such statements are personal attacks and I suggest you use more constructive comments in the future, otherwise you're liable to be blocked. Thanks, Sh i r ik  ( Questions or Comments? ) 21:40, 7 September 2010 (UTC)
 * I admit I am under stress. I come home after 10 hours of work, and on my way to class to learn 30 articles were nominated to be deleted. Some deserved it, others did not, and I really don't think the nominators care to do the research. Is it too much to ask that nominations be reasonable and politely limited to those that can be addressed reasonably. Mathewignash (talk) 21:50, 7 September 2010 (UTC)
 * I agree that the two you mentioned are notable. It would, however, help if when you vote Keep on all the other articles you at least said how the articles meet our notability guidelines - it helps other editors. Black Kite (t) (c) 21:56, 7 September 2010 (UTC)
 * It would help if I didn't have to give reasons for 30 articles in one day. The people voting for delete seem to j\ust copy and paste their reasons. "It's not notable, delete it!" next!. If you want some sort of support in improving these articles, and cleaning out the trash, I'd suggest deleting less articles at a time. Mathewignash (talk) 21:59, 7 September 2010 (UTC)
 * I am doing 10 at a time; I don't think that's excessive. If you notice, I'm doing them in alphabetical order and missing any out that I think might be notable.  I'm trying to stick to the ones that are clearly non-notable - unfortunately I can't help it if others decide to nominate a lot as well.  To be fair, I'll step back from nominating any more for a while.  What I suggest you do, though, is look at creating some "List of minor characters" type articles.  A lot of Category:Autobots, for example, could be merged into a few lists like that.  It'd be far easier for people to read as well. Black Kite (t) (c) 22:04, 7 September 2010 (UTC)
 * No need to stop working to improve Wikipedia, but how about varying your focus a bit. Pick other topics too. Nominate a Transformer, a Comic book hero, some russian writer and a bunch of other things if that makes you happy. Mathewignash (talk) 22:12, 7 September 2010 (UTC)

I dunno why you asking me your gonna do it anyway!!
You can do as you please in regards to adding sources if you can put book quotes and pages numbers by means. Note I have added new comments at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Transformers Dwanyewest (talk) 23:59, 7 September 2010 (UTC)

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Proposed deletion of Transmetal Driver


The article Transmetal Driver has been proposed for deletion&#32; because of the following concern:
 * Purely in-universe content with very low likelihood of establishing its notability through independent secondary sources

While all contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, content or articles may be deleted for any of several reasons.

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Please consider improving the article to address the issues raised. Removing  will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. The speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. Chris Cunningham (user:thumperward: not at work) - talk 10:05, 8 September 2010 (UTC)

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Thanks
Thanks for putting in the book refs for the Transformers articles. If you need a hand with any Transformers info, feel free to give me a message. I think I am getting a handle on it. Lots42 (talk) 23:17, 9 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Your welcome. I have several third party books printed about Transformers, and I'll be goind through all of them. The more third party references proving notability, the less arguing will need to be done at deletion nominations. If you have any Transformers book printed by third parties, please let me know. Mathewignash (talk) 23:19, 9 September 2010 (UTC)
 * My very weird notes indicate I have the page numbers characters appear on for something called 'Transformers ID3 Priceguide'. If I can find the info via Amazon, I can go down the list and add in the references including page numbers. I just can't figure out what the heck book my notes is indicating. Lots42 (talk) 00:35, 10 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Mathew, much as I'm happy you're adding sources to the articles, they do appear to be mostly primary sources. A book about Transformers is not an independent source;  if you want to save some of these articles from deletion, you need to find sources that talk about these characters which are nothing to do with the series. Black Kite (t) (c) 00:48, 10 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Sorry, but a DK book is not made by Hasbro or Takara, it's third party. It's as good as source as third party book on the pope is a source for an article on him. Mathewignash (talk) 00:50, 10 September 2010 (UTC)
 * No, you've missed the point. A third-party source is one that's completely independent of the article.  Whilst a third-party book on the Pope would be usable, it wouldn't be enough to prove the Pope's notability if there weren't any other sources.  To prove a character's notability, you need to provide sources that talk about that character independently of the franchise.  If you think about it, it's obvious - I've got a book next to me which list details of every pub (bar) in my county, but it doesn't make each of those bars notable, they need to have coverage that isn't just a source which deals with bars. Black Kite (t) (c) 00:55, 10 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Listen I was told to look to articles like Batman and Stormshadow as guides to well sourced articles. I see tons of books like these in those articles acting as references. Are those articles wrong? Mathewignash (talk) 01:04, 10 September 2010 (UTC)
 * No, they're fine to put in as references; but only if there is independent coverage as well. For example, in the StormShadow articles there are references from a newspaper and IGN, neither of which are websites which are completely about GI Joe. Black Kite (t) (c) 06:33, 10 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Please tell that to Sarujo, as he came in and started deleting my references (this is the same guy who voted to DELETE SOUNDWAVE!) Seems like you can't do anything on Wikipedia without someone getting pissed off. Mathewignash (talk) 08:08, 10 September 2010 (UTC)

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September 2010
Welcome to Wikipedia. I have noticed that some of your recent genre changes have conflicted with our neutral point of view and verifiability policies. While we invite all users to contribute constructively to Wikipedia, we urge all editors to provide reliable sources for edits made. When others disagree, we recommend you to seek consensus for certain edits. Thank you. Please cease and desist your mass changes to Transformers-related articles, some of them could potentially constitute edit warring, which can result in a temporary block. Ronk01   talk  17:26, 10 September 2010 (UTC)

Reliable sources
If by reliable third party publication you mean DK's The Ultimate Guide, then, no, it doesn't count. That book is so not a "third party" source, being a Hasbro-affiliated publication, written by Simon Furman (notice that TFWiki has an article about it). Plus, the book had spelling mistakes. So, please do not use that book or any other official Transformers reference guide as an excuse to recreate articles. NotARealWord (talk) 17:36, 10 September 2010 (UTC)
 * How is DK "affiliated" with Hasbro exactly? Mathewignash (talk) 19:41, 10 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Affiliated might be the wrong word, the TKwiki calls it "officially licensed" which means it is not third party, money changed hands to ensure its publication, and so it is not independent from the subject. Bigger digger (talk) 19:58, 10 September 2010 (UTC)
 * I have the book right here. Reading the credits. It says the characters are the property of Hasbro and the characters/pictures are used "with permission". I also have a second book which was printed to chas in on the 2007 movie, that even states it's "unauthorized". Mathewignash (talk) 20:04, 10 September 2010 (UTC)
 * NARW is correct. DK makes a bunch of these guides, including ones for James Bond, X-Men, and so on.  They're all officially licensed and would generally be considered primary sources for our purposes.  That isn't to say they're necessarily useless though, they may have bibliography sections that might point toward actual sources, check the back. Andrew Lenahan -  St ar bli nd  20:12, 10 September 2010 (UTC)
 * The end mostly thanks the fans who supplied the information and pictures of their toys. And it thanks Benson Yee, who we have established as an expert on Transformers - The DVD box set for Beast Wars says he is, so that's good enough for me. Mathewignash (talk) 20:15, 10 September 2010 (UTC)
 * TF reference texts (except this one) can be good sources of information, but they're not third party sources. So, they don't establish notability. I don't think fan-made guides establish much notability either. NotARealWord (talk) 21:36, 10 September 2010 (UTC)

Toy guides
If a book doesn't say much about the character, then it doesn't establish notability.Bali ultimate's argument on Articles for deletion/Energon (power source) is about the kinda source that doesn't give much coverage to the subject. Notice how the resukt was DELETE. So please do not use toy guides as an excuse to recreate articles on TF characters which were earlier deleted for lack of notability. NotARealWord (talk) 20:39, 12 September 2010 (UTC)

ARS tagging
Would you consider tagging all the Transformers articles currently up for deletion with the Article Rescue Squadron tag? There's so many of them that it's good to have them all in one place, but probably not quite enough that they need a Deletion Sorting category. Andrew Lenahan -  St ar bli nd  20:02, 10 September 2010 (UTC)
 * What, you want the members of the ARS to blindly !vote Keep on all of them? That's productive. Black Kite (t) (c) 23:23, 10 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Assume good faith. The ARS team would like to be INFORMED, to make their own decision. Mathewignash (talk) 23:27, 10 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Not my point; if you're just trying to track them, Category:AfD debates (Fiction and the arts) is your friend; it doesn't need a spurious tag. Black Kite (t) (c) 23:29, 10 September 2010 (UTC)
 * I don't think Andrew's an ARS happy-clapper. Nevertheless, dropping a single note on WT:ARS for editors familiar with the subject to have a look would be vastly preferable to mass-tagging when it's been established that the relative notability of the articles in question varies pretty wildly. Chris Cunningham (user:thumperward: not at work) - talk 23:41, 10 September 2010 (UTC)
 * No, I wasn't suggesting Andrew was, I know his AfD comments are always thoughtful. That comment was probably unnecessarily abrupt of me!  We definitely don't want the tag spammed everywhere, though. Black Kite (t) (c) 06:57, 11 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Ok, consider the request withdrawn, the category pointed out by Black Kite is close enough to what I was looking for. It'll do. Andrew Lenahan -  St ar bli nd  12:45, 11 September 2010 (UTC)

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Proposed deletion of Insectrons


The article Insectrons has been proposed for deletion&#32; because of the following concern:
 * Transformers trivia. No decent sources cited, no evidence of real-world notability.

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Proposed deletion of Razorclaw


The article Razorclaw has been proposed for deletion&#32; because of the following concern:
 * No notability asserted, appears to be a few toys only

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You luv mediocrity
Its been discussed to death about about removing this stuff. Why keep stuff that shouldn't be there. Dwanyewest (talk) 02:00, 16 September 2010 (UTC)
 * By "stuff" you mean what? NotARealWord (talk) 21:46, 16 September 2010 (UTC)
 * By his actions it would seem "stuff" means the entirity of the Toys section, which has NOT been agreed to. Mathewignash (talk) 21:48, 16 September 2010 (UTC)
 * He's got a point though. You'd probably have an easier time getting the Transformers characters kept without the toy-catalogue stuff. Andrew Lenahan -  St ar bli nd  23:42, 16 September 2010 (UTC)

Articles_for_deletion/Dead_End_(Transformers)
You probably want to look at this AfD discussion again.... Black Kite (t) (c) 17:20, 17 September 2010 (UTC)
 * My bad, I apologize. The banned sock puppet just VOTED there. He nominated other articles. This nomination was completely valid. Mathewignash (talk) 17:25, 17 September 2010 (UTC)

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Pages recreated as redirects
You recreated Oil Slick (Transformers) and Heatwave (Transformers) as redirects. I don't think you should do that with other deleted pages considering that Hasbro will likely reuse many names for unrelated characters and it will become difficult to be sure where to redirect to after a while. NotARealWord (talk) 07:44, 18 September 2010 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Blood (Transformers)


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Proposed deletion of Cindersaur


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Proposed deletion of Decepticharge


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SWT
This is redundant filler and completely unnecessary. Bluelinks already in the article explain the factions further to anyone who cares. Please stop restoring it. --EEMIV (talk) 20:46, 25 September 2010 (UTC)
 * The information is sourced and relivant to the article. Please stop reverting it yourself. Mathewignash (talk) 20:47, 25 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Although I appreciate the better-edited prose content you're trying to add, it remains either a) a rehash of content covered at the individual faction articles and b) a list of products. Third-party commentary about products' reception -- top-10 lists, reviews, responses, etc. are appropriate, but simply adding a list of products is inappropriate here. --EEMIV (talk) 20:10, 3 October 2010 (UTC)
 * See WP:BRD -- you made a bold edition, I reverted it -- now discuss. Continuing to restore it is counterproductive. I will post a note at WP:3O and the Transformers wikiproject page. --EEMIV (talk) 20:54, 3 October 2010 (UTC)

Nomination of Mirage (other incarnations) for deletion
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Nomination of Gearhead (Transformers) for deletion
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Nomination of Getaway (Transformers) for deletion
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Nomination of Galaxy Shuttle for deletion
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Nomination of Go Shooter for deletion
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Nomination of Gunrunner (Transformers) for deletion
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Merge?
Thanks for being so positive about the merges I've been doing with the list of Super-God characters - I was a bit concerned that you might think it was heavy-handed. As it is, the information is safer than it was, there's ten potential AFDs we won't be seeing, and the character list is looking a lot fuller than it was. Could you please have a look for a similar character list and character articles and propose a merge for articles in danger (less than two in-depth third party sources) like I did? The more of these kinds of merges performed, the fewer of these kinds of AFDs we'll see. --Malkinann (talk) 01:57, 6 October 2010 (UTC)

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Nomination of Spoons (Gobots) for deletion
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Nomination of Rest-Q for deletion
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Nomination of Zeemon for deletion
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Nomination of Geeper-Creeper for deletion
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Nomination of Treds for deletion
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Nomination of Megaplex (Transformers) for deletion
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Important message to sort
I feel this important you come to this debate to avoid disputes Dwanyewest (talk) 19:46, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

WP:BRD
Per WP:BRD, I have reverted your bold integration of material from one Ultra Magnus article to another, and initiated discussion -- your next job is to respond to the concerns I raised on the talk page here, not to continue to tendentious restore content that is clearly under dispute. I'm happy to discuss what content is appropriate to merge, and how much should be trimmed; wholly restoring material is another mark against you. Despite our disagreement about the treatment of Star Wars Transformers, I have repeatedly post on the wikiproject talk page that you have generally be response to feedback and criticism -- you don't have a whole lot of fans or people willing to give you the benefit of the doubt, and I'm happy to count myself among the few who do. Please don't wear that down, however, by failing to abide by such basic tenets as WP:BRD (which you've previously demonstrated a willingness and ability to do). --EEMIV (talk) 02:00, 16 October 2010 (UTC)

Turbo
Thank you for following my prompt to appeal to the closing admin. to review his decision at the Turbo AfD. However, as you see, the closing admin. has decided not to reverse the closure/decision to redirect. Continuing to restore that content against consensus is disruptive. My ability to assume your good faith in engaging in the project's discussions about what content to keep, merge, and delete is rapidly diminishing. Please abide by WP:CONSENSUS, such as the consensus that the Turbo content is not appropriate for Wikipedia and that it should instead redirect toward another target. --EEMIV (talk) 00:22, 22 October 2010 (UTC)

Nomination of Laser Rods for deletion
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Userfied content
I've restored your new version of Jolt (Transformers) into your userspace at, so that you can easilly refer to it while using WP:DRV. --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 16:01, 24 October 2010 (UTC)

Tedescoboy22
I don't think following your edits and using them to AfD stuff is harassment unless it's directed at you personally. But maybe you should take it to the SPI or the incidents noticeboard, considering Tedescoboy22's strange deletion rationales are even weirder than that sockpuppet you found. NotARealWord (talk) 08:48, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

Nomination of Yoketron for deletion
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Nomination of Leadfoot (Transformers) for deletion
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Nomination of Splashdown (Transformers) for deletion
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Nomination of Stormcloud for deletion
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Nomination of Rage (Transformers) for deletion
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Sideways (Transformers)
When an article is deleted by an Articles for Deletion discussion, if you want to attempt to re-create it the correct page is Deletion Review. If you merely re-create it in the same state as previously (or, in this case, even less information), it will probably be deleted per WP:CSD, as this one has been. Black Kite (t) (c) 00:56, 5 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Your arguement is a bit flawed. The link you sent me said "This excludes pages that are not substantially identical to the deleted version." My page was COMPLETELY original. It should not be effected by the deletion review of the first. Mathewignash (talk) 01:03, 5 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Mathew, I think you know this already, but if you're going to re-create a page, you need to address the reason why it was deleted, which was that there were no significant secondary coverage of the character. Your "new" article had one third-party reference, and that wasn't even about the character, it was about the toy. If you want to restore the article, re-create it in userspace and then go to WP:DRV. Re-creating articles that have been deleted via AFD like that is disruptive, and people have been blocked for it in the past - please don't go there. Black Kite (t) (c) 01:12, 5 November 2010 (UTC)
 * It had a third party references about the character in the video game and his voice actor, and I was working on the article, it wasn't done. Mathewignash (talk) 07:56, 5 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Mathew, a reference from that website and a single third-party mention about who his voice actor was is not significant sourcing in a million years. You need articles about the character.  This is why you should create this stuff in userspace - here, User:Mathewignash/Sideways, I userfied it for you. Black Kite (t) (c) 14:43, 5 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Fair enough, I'll just keep adding references until it gets enough. Thanks for the help. I'm not being sarcastic when I say you are helping either, as I learn more when someone tells me what I'm doing wrong and how I can correct it. I may end up keeping a lot of the boarderline notable TF articles in userspace, and adding citations as I find them until one of them gets enough citations to be notable. Mathewignash (talk) 20:02, 5 November 2010 (UTC)

Nomination of Transmetal Driver for deletion
A discussion has begun about whether the article Transmetal Driver, which you created or to which you contributed, should be deleted. While contributions are welcome, an article may be deleted if it is inconsistent with Wikipedia policies and guidelines for inclusion, explained in the deletion policy.

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Savage/Noble concept art?
Do you still have the concept art for Savage/Noble? I'd really like to have a copy of it. Thanks! --ゼノせいや Zenoseiya (talk) 17:28, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

CarolynBaker
Hi. Thanks for your message. I'm not surprised. Give them enough rope.....etc etc! I was watching to see what "she" did but usually I miss the denouments being on UK time! Best of luck. Fainites barley scribs 12:57, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

War for Cybertron and connections with Prime series
The connection with the Prime series is ambiguous at the moment. I have to go by what is cited that's reliable, and I have better sourcing to place it in the G1 universe. The only things I can find that provide coverage of it in the Prime series are all excerpts from tfw2005.com, which has no editorial process nor professional staff, and thus are considered an unreliable source. It may have been said at BotCon or some other convention, but I have to go with what the reliable sources say. I'm trying to get the article to Good Article status so I have to steer away from any sources which have dubious reliability. --Teancum (talk) 03:58, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Your sources do not confirm that WFC = G1. All the first source proves that Peter Cullen doesn't think that there's a connection between WFC and Prime and that he can't really talk about the creative process, and the second one....well, I haven't a clue why you even used that. You are using sources that do not back up your claims to reinforce a false position. Divebomb is not British 15:30, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Did you watch that video? They specifically state that it's based on the G1 universe.  Take that as either 1) it's literally a prequel to the G1 cartoons, or 2) he was saying that it's inspired by G1.  I'm willing to concede on the second as what universe it's in doesn't matter so much to me.  But either way the current sourcing of the article can support either theory, and it disproves the Prime connection, which is my primary concern.  If you all would like for me to rewrite it as such to state that it's inspired by the G1 universe that's fine.  But no matter where I look I only find fansites that link WfC and Prime - popular as those sites are (such as tformers.com and seibertron.com) they're still technically unreliable as the sites have no professional staff nor editorial process.  To be fair I use those sites for my own personal use - I think they're great, but they just can't stand up as sourcing at Wikipedia per WP:RS.  I'll have to replace some sources as it is.  So anyway, please rely on MY talk page if you would like the development section rewritten to state that the game is inspired by the G1 universe, which is basically meeting in the middle. --Teancum (talk) 02:50, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
 * While the fansites might not be "reliable sources", but thing they are reporting on, the TF convention panel, is a reliable source. So your source is the panel, not seibertron.com or tformers. Mathewignash (talk) 11:08, 15 November 2010 (UTC)

"War for Cybertron is not a direct prequel to G1. Half Moon Studios likes to say it is, but that's because they want to sell video games. For example, they've specifically said that the video game ends right when the original cartoon begins, which is impossible on so many levels. I mean, we have the Aerialbots existing four million years before they were born! We have Jetfire as an Autobot hanging out on Cybertron when he should be encased in ice on Earth as a Decepticon! We have the entire war taking place, from Optimus becoming Prime to the Transformers leaving the planet, over a short series of interconnected levels instead of over 5 million years! "This video game takes place before the cartoon" was clearly marketing speak for the casual fan, not something that would hold up to scrutiny. (Same as their "we've never seen Cybertron before!" crap.)"

Although, I'm not sure if there are reliable sources claiming that Transformers: Prime is a sequel to WFC, I don't think we should claim that WfC is a prequel to the original cartoon either. If there is anything claiming WfC as a G1 prequel, it's probably people propagating marketing speech or were just fooled by it. So, even if said people were usually reliable sources, they don't pass the criteria this time. NotARealWord (talk) 18:12, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
 * The sources are direct quotes - see here. "It's based on the G1 universe," (Matt Krystek). --Teancum (talk) 02:41, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Read the second sentence of the quote NARW posted. Divebomb is not British 07:06, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
 * So simply report the facts for the artiocle - say the game makers initially said it was a prequel to the 1984 Sunbow animated series G1 (despite the many inconsistancies of the story), while later Hasbro said it was the prequel to TF:Prime. Don't take a position, just report the facts. Mathewignash (talk) 10:24, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
 * I don't have any reliable sources that point to Prime. --Teancum (talk) 10:34, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Isn't that part of the Exodus novel? Also, I think it was said by some Hasbro exec at a Botcon. Maybe ask someone like Walky above for the specific person and time of the quote. Mathewignash (talk) 10:42, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
 * It's not so much that I don't believe it wasn't said. It's that I have to have it essentially covered by a reliable news source.  I've only seen it at sites like tfw2005, seibertron, etc which I unfortunately can't use.  That's why the article states it's based on G1.  Not that it actually is (as I understand it now), but rather that was the influence.  I've reworded the article to say that G1 was the inspiration, but I'd say that's as far as we can go since everywhere I look people dispute what universe its in.  This way it keeps that out of the topic, and states the visual/character influence. --Teancum (talk) 12:41, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Then your source for the news isn't the TF fan web site, it's the person at the convention who said it. Site them. Mathewignash (talk) 14:56, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
 * I can't, because I am not a reliable source. It has to be covered by a published, third party source.  People themselves cannot be cited, nor the conventions themselves. --Teancum (talk) 16:02, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
 * This might be a case where this would apply: Reliable_source_examples. I would site the info connecting WFC to G1 with normal sources, then make a comment that Hasbro execs stated differently at a convention. Mathewignash (talk) 21:20, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
 * I might be willing to do that - I'd need a few links where they specifically state it though, since most are really ambiguous about it. --Teancum (talk) 00:49, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free image File:Unicron-idw.jpg
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Orphaned non-free image File:Boss-toy.jpg
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Transformers Prime content
I have removed the copy-pasted paragraph you have added to the various articles on the characters of Transformers: Prime. If the cartoon has not premiered yet in any nation, how the hell do you know the events of the first two episodes in such detail?— Ryūlóng ( 竜龙 ) 04:25, 28 November 2010 (UTC)

Anyway, it does not improve Wikipedia to use the same content on 12 different pages. If you want to write about the plot, save it for the episode page. Either that or write things that are not identical and are directly geared towards what that particular character did, rather than what every single character did.— Ryūlóng ( 竜龙 ) 04:31, 28 November 2010 (UTC)

Write something original rather than copying and pasting the same piece of crap across every Autobot and Decepticon who appears in Transformers: Prime, please.— Ryūlóng ( 竜龙 ) 19:49, 28 November 2010 (UTC)
 * And also see WP:NOT. Character articles are for information about those characters, not a detail of every time they appear in every series. These articles would actually be better if the plot summary was stripped out. Black Kite (t) (c) 19:52, 28 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Perhaps you should read that yourself. It says wikipedia is not "Plot-only description of fictional works. Wikipedia treats fiction in an encyclopedic manner, discussing the reception and significance of notable works. A concise plot summary is usually appropriate as part of this coverage." Mathewignash (talk) 22:51, 28 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Two problems there Mathew. (1) "Concise" - perhaps you need to look it up.  (2) that is referring to coverage of actual films, books, etc., not character articles. Having said that, I spent some time fixing an article to perhaps show what a character article should look like and conform to policy - Bulkhead (Transformers).  Now - isn't that better, more readable, and contains all the useful information (i.e. not swathes of random trivia) that a reader could want? Black Kite (t) (c) 23:56, 28 November 2010 (UTC)
 * And I don't have to write it better. You should. I'm only removing unnecessary plot summary.— Ryūlóng ( 竜龙 ) 04:55, 29 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Also, what you should do is write in better and proper English grammar. This should be simple enough.— Ryūlóng ( 竜龙 ) 08:01, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

Bulkhead
I see you reverted my example article and re-inserted all the trivia, plot summary and a spurious non-free image. I take this as meaning that you're not prepared to try to improve these articles. That's a shame, but I would strongly suggest you don't make further unconstructive edits - please read WP:NOT, WP:NFCC, WP:TRIVIA and everything else before you do that again. Black Kite (t) (c) 07:33, 29 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Seriously, Mathew - WP:NOT and WP:NFCC are policies. I suggest you stop reverting this article now.  If there any errors that were introduced when the article was fixed, then feel free to change them, but you must stop re-inserting the huge swathes of plot summary and non-free images. Black Kite (t) (c) 09:44, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

Nomination of Road Rocket for deletion
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Nomination of Skram for deletion
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File:Optimusprime-universesp.jpg listed for deletion
A file that you uploaded or altered, File:Optimusprime-universesp.jpg, has been listed at Files for deletion. Please see the to see why this is (you may have to search for the title of the image to find its entry), if you are interested in it not being deleted. J Milburn (talk) 23:00, 28 November 2010 (UTC)

Reply: Transformers: Timelines
In reply to the question that you made on my talk page on November 28, 2010, the thing needed to make me change my vote is to read at least two references from third-party sources that are from reputable publications/reviewers that specifically address Transformers: Timelines, not a single toy or individual products, the Timelines toy line or the comic books. That is the only way to prove that an article like this can stand alone in Wikipedia. Read WP:GNG for specifics about this. About the recent references that you added, please note that many of them do not talk about Timelines but about specific toys that are part of the toy line, so the ones that are notable are the toys, not the Timelines series.

Bear in mind that the references to show notability must show "significant coverage", which none of the current ones do, at least not about Timelines, and the sources cannot be in any way affiliated to the Transformers franchise, even if they are not officially endorsed by the producing companies. The sources to show notability must not be Transformers dedicated websites ("independent of the subject.")

As the article stands right now, it fills the criteria of "Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate collection of information." All those paragraphs outside of the intro are completely unencyclopedic and unjustified with the current sources. The article must not be written as a timeline because that has no relevance if there is no real-world notability.

If there are reviews about the comic books, the article should talk about the comic books, not the toys. Almost all of the article is written as a synthesis of published material that advances a position. The article should change from a toys perspective to a comic book perspective because if the comic books are minor or non-notable, the Supercbbox is unnecessary. Essentially, everything about years and figures is not encyclopedic material unless there are at least two sources that mention all of them in single reviews that are not related to the individual toys.

These sources are not acceptable to show notability because they are not independent of the subject:
 * www.transformersclub.com
 * www.bwtf.com
 * Hasbro Transformers Collectors Club magazine

These might be, but not as they are now:
 * comicnewsi.com (it's a preview, not a full review, and the review is useless if the cite does not have the full name of the reviewer or if the person is not considered as a reputable reviewer by the WikiProject Comics.)
 * tomopop.com (although the article is well identified and the website does have reviews, the reviews are about specific figures not the toy line.)
 * fallenempiretoys.com (once again specific toy reviews, not a review of the toy line itself.)
 * oafe.net (same as above.)
 * bsckids.com (a preview, not a full review.)

While I have no doubt that the Transformers toy line series are notable as a whole, it does not need unnecessary content forks like this article. The Transformers: Timelines comic may have some notability to stand on its own, but I doubt that the derivative toy lines themselves merit more than a mention in the Transformers (toy line) article. For a reference of what I would expect from an article about Transformers: Timelines toy line, check Play-Doh or Sindy and notice the tone used to emphasize the real-world notability of the toys, something that Transformers: Timelines doesn't have at all right now.

If you manage to find at least two reviews (no product reviews) that are not about the individual toys but about the whole Transformers: Timelines toy line and that are from publications completely independent of Transformers, or if the focus of the article is about the comic books and meets the criteria of WP:CMC, then I will not object about keeping the article. As it is right now, there is very little that merits to be kept.

Regards. Jfgslo (talk) 15:37, 29 November 2010 (UTC)


 * In reply to the comments that you made on my talk page on November 29, 2010, to determine if "Hasbro Transformers Collectors Club" better fits the article title than "Transformers: Timelines", first there needs to be several sources using that name. That's the point of showing "significant coverage", to show that not only is a topic notable, but how it is referred more commonly to determine the article title. A simple search engine test in English sources will be able to determine that. A single source can't be relied to determine an article title.
 * In reply to the comment of November 30, 2010, take a look at a limited series from comic books: Sinestro_Corps_War. Notice how the reception section, which is the one that shows real-world notability, handles the series as a whole instead of single issues. Ideally, Transformers: Timelines should be able to generate enough critical reception to have something similar like this or to the limited series Watchmen even if the comic books are published annually. But if you find more than a single source (two or more independent reliable publications) with reviews of each individual number and manage to put a reception section with these sources, it would show some notability even if not the best one. It would show at least that the article can be improved and therefore would warrant a weak keep. Regardless of that, if the focus of the article's notability is towards the comic books, the tone of the article must be about the comic book, not the toys. Jfgslo (talk) 18:38, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

Using Citations properly
When you cite material I noticed you don't use the correct formats. I dunno if it's because you don't know them or don't know how to use them so I do this only once. Follow the wiki link of the correct usage of citing sources. Dwanyewest (talk) 23:16, 3 December 2010 (UTC)

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i.e. Movadito
CU confirms User:Movadito was Tedescoboy22 a.k.a. Wiki brah.

That still leaves Ultrablastic123. Divebomb is not British 18:22, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

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Reverting My Redirects
Goddamnit dude, if you're gonna revert my list redirects, at least check if the subject of the page I redirected is already in the list or not first. Divebomb is not British 09:53, 11 December 2010 (UTC)
 * I did look. I saw nothing under "E", why is he under "X"? Mathewignash (talk) 13:09, 11 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Because "Emirate" is a title, I guess. Divebomb is not British 15:44, 11 December 2010 (UTC)

Packrat (Transformers) and others
Look, you can't just go around and recreate these articles when no one's looking. That really is borderline disruptive. Instead of fighting to keep the nonsense, why don't you work on improving the articles that are actually of some significance? J Milburn (talk) 14:55, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
 * I just added a source as it becomes available. Now it's in the history. Mathewignash (talk) 15:06, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

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Talkback
--Cúchullain t/ c 13:38, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

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The sockpuppet you suspected
See here. I used your statement as "evidence". Hopefully I did it correctly. Thanks for pointing out that page. NotARealWord (talk) 05:54, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Update- Sorry that I didn't notice the user was already reported and blocked. MuZemike just blanked out my report. NotARealWord (talk) 15:38, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

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Another sock?
Hello Mathew, I hate to bother you under this assumed name but I have to get this off my chest... There is another sock/Wiki brah-Claritas-Editor XXV ally that you guys have overlooked. Take a look please at this contribution list. Notice anything reeking of sock activity? Like starting editing on 28 August 2010, right in the thick of the socking campaign to mass delete articles. And jumping right into the transformers AFDs even in the first few edits. Just had to let someone know, I can't take the coverup anymore. Consider me the John Dean of the Tf wiki. Sincerely, Quoggle (talk) 14:52, 23 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Ahem, that's me. And the sockpuppet-nominated deletions started after I nominated stuff for deletion. If I was a sockpuppet, I'm sure I'd have been found out by now, Divebomb was discovered because a CheckUser was investigating another sockpuppet, and that account just came up. Also, claiming that you're "the John Dean of the Tf wiki" when approaching Ignash makes you sound real suspicious. I don't think there is any such thing. NotARealWord (talk) 15:11, 23 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Just making lots of deletion nominations after signing up is a bit suspecious, and maybe even rude, but not a violation of any rules. If NARW is a sock puppet, then I'd have to know who he's a puppet to to make a charge. Otherwise he's just a guy who likes nominating articles for deletion. Nothing unusual about that. I do have half a mind to just nominate EVERYONE who nominates Transformers articles for a sock puppet investigation, INCLUDING ME, just as a matter of covering our behind. Mathewignash (talk) 19:56, 23 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Actually, I made the delete nominations a few months after signing up. NotARealWord (talk) 19:59, 23 December 2010 (UTC)

Nomination of Transformers: Timelines for deletion
The article Transformers: Timelines is being discussed concerning whether it is suitable for inclusion as an article according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Transformers: Timelines until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on good quality evidence, and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion template from the top of the article. T. Canens (talk) 15:54, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

sympathies
Hi. Taking a look at Wiki brah's presence in the SPI... I want to apologize if I gave you a hard time. I'm somewhat of a libertarian and can react strongly when it comes to privacy issues. It looks like this is indeed a frustrating and persistent problem. I wish I could help settle it so it doesn't continue to be an issue. But maybe the best way I can do that is to just stay out of the whole area entirely. Sincerely. Let me know what you think. Shooterwalker (talk) 22:16, 26 December 2010 (UTC) No offense was meant. I'm glad none was taken. Mathewignash (talk) 23:02, 26 December 2010 (UTC)

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