User talk:Mattlore/Archive 4

Infobox Colours
Please see User_talk:Jeff79. --Jeff79 (talk) 17:31, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

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Proposed deletion of Isaac John
A proposed deletion template has been added to the article Isaac John, suggesting that it be deleted according to the proposed deletion process&#32; because of the following concern:
 * Unreferenced, Stub, Is a player who is not a first grade player, and is presumed to be one, but for now notability dosen't stand per WP:RL/N rules 2 and 9, where his notability is based upon the notability of his team, and hasn't played first grade yet. This article may be recreated if he becomes full time player.

All contributions are appreciated, but this article may not satisfy Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion, and the deletion notice should explain why (see also "What Wikipedia is not" and Wikipedia's deletion policy). You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the  notice, but please explain why you disagree with the proposed deletion in your edit summary or on its talk page.

Please consider improving the article to address the issues raised because, even though removing the deletion notice will prevent deletion through the proposed deletion process, the article may still be deleted if it matches any of the speedy deletion criteria or it can be sent to Articles for Deletion, where it may be deleted if consensus to delete is reached.    The Windler      talk   13:20, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

New Zealand general election, 2005
I see little value in keeping the article New Zealand general election, 2005: in depth results given the additions you have just made to the main article. Before I do anything silly by nominating it for deletion, do you have any opinion on its value?- gadfium 09:25, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

Daniel Wagon, Wairangi Koopu, Justin Smith and AMNRL 2009 Squads
There is no websites to prove that they have signed with the AMNRL but i emailed david niu and he said wagon is in philly and sean rutgerson is at jacksonville if u want to email him its dniu@nrlus.com and ask him but wairangi isnt at america i heard hes going there on a forum and also the northern raiders have a guy in there team called justin smith so i predicted it was the former nrl player and also my 2009 squad of aston dsc and i think i did another that was true and it had a link to prove it can u change that back please. thats all144.131.106.22 (talk) 14:54, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

CEO in Template:NRL Team Season
Hi Matt. Please see User_talk:Jeff79.--Jeff79 (talk) 08:00, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Please see User_talk:Jeff79.--Jeff79 (talk) 08:26, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

Split of 1987 America's Cup
Hi Mattlore, I would have preferred that the article say complete and do not see that having 2 sub-articles is an improvement. It would have been courteous of you to have at least posted a note of your intention on the article talk page before doing so. Also, to comply with the licensing requirements, you should have given attribution to the source article in the edit summary when doing the cut-paste (see WP:SPLIT). –Moondyne 08:20, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I care less about the split than the lack of attribution (which you have not commented on), although both concern me. You argue that they are separate events and therefore need separate articles - the 3 events are inextricably linked in every sense: participants, locations and dates.  I also note that none of the other exiting AC articles has a sub-article for the defender series, and the LV sub-articles were all created by yourself, presumably in a similar fashion to the 1987 article.  I think that at the very least you should post something at Talk:1987 Defender Selection Series indicating the source of the text you copied, as per the guideline mentioned above. –Moondyne 15:07, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

Electoral history tables
You may be interested in the discussion at New Zealand Wikipedians' notice board, about the tables which you call "parlbox".- gadfium  19:47, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

Player Nicknames
Am I allowed to just give players random nicknames this guy User:Zoofari says that i cant is this true? like taniela tuiaki- the tongan bulldozer, John Williams(The Wolfmans brother) Wolfbrother is his nickname they even called him that on the Sunday Roast. So can i just give them nicknames randomly?121.218.86.232 (talk) 07:36, 4 July 2009 (UTC)


 * ZooFari is right in saying that, just like anything else on wikipedia, you need to provide a source with your claim. A good place to look for this could be the player profiles on the clubs website or the NRL handbook that comes out each year. Mattlore (talk) 05:31, 5 July 2009 (UTC)

Talkback
   The Windler      talk   22:07, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

Talkback
   The Windler      talk   23:23, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

Why i edit International RL Players
How can players just be called an Australian player when they havent played for them even when they have what about the other country they are allowed to represent are they just forgotten and the international rl eligibilty rule is a joke hayne can play for fiji one year then play for australia and tonie carrol can play for australia and new zealand so it doesnt matter any way as to what international rl category they are as long as they are able to represent them if they have a grand father/mother or father then they can play for them and i have to edit the international league pages to show how much players can represent the weaker teams for people who dont know much about international league i hope you understand why edit the way i do and hope you let me continue my editing in the future as its only fair to include all the countries they are able to represent under the current eligibility rules.there is already a Category:Rugby league players by ethnicity could i do that instead?58.165.209.77 (talk) 10:28, 12 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Well you are talking about several different things there:

These three things may overlap but are very different. Currently a player should only be in a category if he a) is that nationality or b) has represented that country, but this is going to change very soon as there will soon be categories for players who have represented there national teams (see WP:RL). Therefore once they have been established a player will have 1 or maybe 2 nationality categories and then other categories for the national teams they have played for. It does not matter if they are eligible for other nations if they have not played for them. Mattlore (talk) 11:46, 12 July 2009 (UTC)
 * The nationality the person is (most people only have one nationality)
 * The national rugby league teams they are eligible for
 * There ancestry (many people have multiple)

Andrew Lomu
Hiya - now I'm confused over these categories. You've removed Category:Australian rugby league players but left Category:Australians of New Zealand descent and Category:Australians of Tongan descent. So is he Australian or not? Cheers,  florrie  01:47, 25 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Hey. I guess I'm confused too with these categories. I removed Category:Australian rugby league players because there is no source saying if his nationality is Australian or New Zealand. I probably should have been consistent and also removed the other two categories but I felt like that was perhaps a bit too over the top at the time. I guess the answer to "is he Australian or not?" is "I don't know". Mattlore (talk) 23:41, 25 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Well we do know he was born in Australia, that's referenced, and that he was eligible to play for New Zealand etc. Can't we leave him as Australian by default until/if a reference stating otherwise turns up? Cheers,  florrie  09:32, 26 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Ah, I'm not too sure what is the best approach. Originally he was in both Category:New Zealand rugby league players and Category:Australian rugby league players. I guess we could just use place of birth as the default nationality but as Jeff has mentioned Wikipedia warns that "The place of birth is rarely notable." The problem is we don't really have any evidence that says he is more Australian than Kiwi or vice versa. Mattlore (talk) 09:46, 26 July 2009 (UTC)
 * The way I see it he is Australian by birth and he has played for New Zealand by descent. Having played for New Zealand doesn't mean he is no longer Australian by nationality. We have nothing to say he is not an Australian but we do have a reference to say he is Australian by birth. I think this attempt to reference obscure categories for eligibility has ended up throwing out the baby with the bath-water. Cheers,  florrie  10:52, 26 July 2009 (UTC)
 * See I guess this is where we have a fundamental disconnect. I don't think your place of birth is really that important for what nationality(ies) you consider yourself to belong to. For instance my younger brother was born in England and spent the first few years of his life there but is just as much a Kiwi as I am because of our upbringing. For all we know Lomu was born in Australia to NZ parents, grew up supporting the All Blacks and never considered representing Australia in rugby league because he considers himself to be a Kiwi. Now I'm not saying this is the case, it is equally likely he grew up considering himself a true blue Australian and just opportunistically agreed to represent the Kiwis and Tonga because he was never going to make the Kangaroos. Or perhaps he considers himself to be half and half. The point is we just don't know what he considers his nationality to be. Mattlore (talk) 01:12, 27 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm going to put the category back on Lomu. I still don't think we have verifiable evidence he belongs there though, and so this categorisation regime is straying close to original research. Mattlore (talk) 01:18, 27 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Not a disconnect at all, I totally understand you. I was born in England to Scottish parents and moved here when I was ten months old. As far as I was concerned I was an Australian of Scottish descent but I wasn't legally Australian until we did the citizenship thing ten years ago. I've never once referred to - or allowed myself to be referred to - as a Pom. The thing is, the only reference we have is to his birthplace. If there is a subsequent reference to discount that, then fine, but there isn't (that we know of). Eligibility doesn't determine nationality either - which is often ignored by our enthusiastic categorists. If Lomu had been a Rabbitoh and moved to the Roosters, as far as referencing goes he'd be a Rabbitoh until a reference was available to say otherwise. That's what I'm trying to get at. So, really, we have to delete any reference to nationality in all articles, regardless of who they may have played for. Then we state the place of birth and remove is an Australian rugby league footballer or is a New Zealand rugby league footballer etc as well as associated categories. If we intend to ensure everything is sourced (as we should be) then it's the only way to go. For those who have represented we could simply state that so and so is a rugby league footballer who has represented for Australia and Samoa at an international level etc and include the national team categories. Cheers,  florrie  07:43, 27 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Right, so with a case like Andrew Lomu what approach do you prefer we take? Remove the nationality categories and intro statements etc, or (as he is at the moment) put him in Category:Australian rugby league players as the category that he likely fits into best based on his birth and absence of conflicting evidence? Sorry, I didn't mean for a minor edit on Lomu's page to turn into a big discussion like this - probably the most anyone has talked about him for several years! Mattlore (talk) 08:11, 27 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Well it's going to impact on a heap of articles so maybe we should c&p this chat over to the WP:RL page? How tempting to plump for the category that he likely fits into best based on his birth and absence of conflicting evidence, certainly, to me, the easiest option. But Wikipedia isn't about being easy, is it. Have you had a look at what other projects do - or just other bios? I'll toddle off and see what I can find.  florrie  11:47, 27 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Tommy Bishop is listed as English (not referenced) yet he has lived in Australia for many years. We don't know if he has taken out Australian citizenship or not. Tony Smith is listed as British-Australian without reference (I'm sure I have seen this somewhere and a reference should be added - but although he has taken out citizenship, is he still Australian?) Take a look at the complicated history of Brent Webb! None of it currently referenced though I am sure it is quite do-able.  florrie  12:01, 27 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I was nosing around for something to do (updating season pages can be oh so tedious!) and I stumbled across this. Anyhow, BBC got a story on Smith. I'll add it to his article. GW  (talk)  21:10, 2 August 2009 (UTC)

DYK nomination of 1907-1908 New Zealand rugby tour of Great Britain
Hello! there still are some issues that may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) underneath and respond there as soon as possible.  Dylan 620  (contribs, logs) 01:02, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

George Thomas (rugby player)
Hi Mattlore, first off, great work on the 1907-08 All Golds tour, it's starting to look really good. Two points I want to bring up though. The Wales vs. All Golds doesn't seem to be the first league international, that was England vs Rest of the World in 1904. I was under that impression for a long time, and had Dai Jones down as the first Northern hemisphere dual-code international until I found Jack Rhapps. Also you have recently placed George Thomas as playing for GB in 1908, which would have made him 51 and playing for Warrington until he was 57? Are there two Gerorge Thomas's? FruitMonkey (talk) 11:34, 9 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Hi Fruitmonkey,
 * There could be two George Thomas's, but his Newport RFC profile lists him as having played for "Warrington RL and played for Great Britain", so I'm not too sure. It does seem a bit odd seeing as he started his career in 1884 but no evidence I've yet found points to another one.
 * Similarly, both of the sources I have refer to the All Golds v Wales match as the "first rugby league international", so I'm not too sure how that fits in with the Rest of the World match that occurred earlier. My guess is that maybe England counts the Rest of the World fixtures as internationals but New Zealand and Wales don't recognise them? Certainly neither of the books I currently have on the tour refer to earlier international matches. It is really hard to get sources that stretch this far back sometimes. Mattlore (talk) 12:18, 9 August 2009 (UTC)
 * OK, hope that sorts out George Thomas, and the great upshot must be that we have now linked him to the Wales vs All Golds game of 1908. Although the All Gold book states J Thomas, the fact that they also write that he played for Newport and Warrington, and then that cross-references with the Warrington history on their website must point to the same bloke. Maybe he was a John George Thomas, or a simple typo. FruitMonkey (talk) 16:23, 9 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Cool, good work on separating the two, it seems that even Newport has become confused about the two over the years. Mattlore (talk) 22:45, 9 August 2009 (UTC)

DYK nomination of 1907-1908 New Zealand rugby tour of Great Britain
Hello! there still are some issues that may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) underneath and respond there as soon as possible. NW ( Talk ) 06:48, 15 August 2009 (UTC)

CIR
OK, yeah that might be a good idea. Thanks for that :) Adabow (talk) 23:05, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

Autoreviewer
Please note that I have granted you the autoreviewer permission as you are a trusted and active article creator. This is done in an attempt to reduce the patrol log. Please let me know if you would like the userright removed. Cheers, Tiptoety  talk 03:17, 24 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Cheers Mattlore (talk) 03:22, 24 August 2009 (UTC)

Auckland City Mayoral election, 2010
I've just started an article on the 2010 Mayoral elections in Auckland, ala the New York City mayoral election, 2005. Thoughts? --Lholden (talk) 02:34, 31 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Wow - I guess you saw my edits but I was just having a look at what existed with NZ local elections already with a view to creating a New Zealand local elections, 2010 sometime in the future. I definitely agree that the Mayoral election is big enough to warrant its own page though. We can already have sections on declared candidates and possibly potential candidates and also talk about the controversy surrounding the formation of the position and supercity - maybe look to the US primary pages last year as that's the kind of mood it feels like we are in at the moment; people trying to establish themselves even though the vote is a long way off. Could also have a look at London mayoral election, 2008 for ideas. Mattlore (talk) 02:40, 31 August 2009 (UTC)

Footy commentary in NZ
Not really related to any specific article, I was just curious about something: You're a Kiwi right? So in New Zealand when you watch NRL matches are they free to air? And if so is it from Channel 9 with their commentators Ray Warren, Paul Vautin, Peter Sterling and Andrew Voss? Or is it a different channel with its own equivalent New Zealand commentators? I watch all my games through downloading and I saw some matches which must have been from New Zealand as pre-match, at halftime and post-match there was studio discussion by some New Zealand commentators (the only one I recognised was Tawera Nikau I think). Never occurred to me that their might be a commentary box at matches beside Rabs and Fatty with a different set of NZ commentators in it that are household names over there. Something I'd like to think I would have found out through wikipedia by now if it were the case.--Jeff79 (talk) 08:13, 4 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Hey. All the NRL matches are screened on SKY TV here, which is probably pretty equivalent to Foxtel (Murdoch owned Pay TV). For Warriors home games there is a NZ commentary team, Jason Costagin (A QLDer) and Darryl Halligan, which I think might also be the commentators that Foxtel get for those games. There are also a team that do all the home Toyota Cup games. For Warriors away games we usually get the Foxtel or Nine commentary team but then go back to the NZ studio for halftime etc. The only time I can recall SKY sending a team over the Australia was for the Warriors Semi Final matches. Some of the people SKY uses in their studio are Tawera Nikau, Richie Barnett, Awen Guttenbeil, Peter Ropati and Steven McIvor. Personally I much prefer Rabs etc and look forward to the (very rare) days when the Warriors are on Friday night or Sunday afternoon so we get the decent commentators, as we did v Bulldogs last weekend. Mattlore (talk) 08:27, 4 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Cheers. But never free to air? So if you don't have pay TV you can never watch the Warriors?--Jeff79 (talk) 08:38, 4 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Uh, I think Prime TV (who are now owned by SKY) has delayed coverage of the Warriors games - but in seasons like this one where they are performing crap it tends to be put at 11pm or so at night. Maori TV also broadcasts one NRL game a week, but the commentary is in Maori! Originally when the Warriors started TV2 (free to air) had the rights to the games but PAY TV can obviously offer much more money. Mattlore (talk) 08:42, 4 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Oh wow. I guess league really does take a back seat to union over there. I was quite impressed with Nikau's commentry. Quite insightful for a big forward!--Jeff79 (talk) 08:52, 4 September 2009 (UTC)

David Clendon
Hi, I doubt elections.org.nz will show him as entering parliament as he has not been "elected" as such. All though he is not sworn-in as an MP I think he is already one, I agree it is hard to know! The actual article now states that he will become an MP on October 30 (today) and it will look odd tomorrow unless it is changed tonight, great dealing with you, Kiwiteen123 (talk) 06:06, 30 October 2009 (UTC)

Talkback
Kiwiteen123 (talk) 06:16, 30 October 2009 (UTC)

David McLaren
David McLaren is described as the FIRST Labour Leader...Please DO SOME RESEARCH on the matter! You have the antecedent parties and their members listed: United Labour and Social Democrat.


 * I removed McLaren from the category Labour Party MPs because he left parliament in 1911. The Labour Party was created in 1916. While he was a member of parties that became part of the Labour party he was not a Labour Party member. I'm not quite sure why you are being so confrontational. Mattlore (talk) 03:54, 31 October 2009 (UTC)

John Robertson
John Robertson was elected early on as a Labour member (Otaki)...Please DO SOME RESEARCH-Gustafson, Bassett and others...


 * Um, what? Where did I dispute such a claim? Mattlore (talk) 03:55, 31 October 2009 (UTC)

1907-08 NZ tour
I found this from early in the 1908 NSWRFL season which I think details games from that first Kiwi tour. I thought it'd be of interest to you, particularly in terms of how the first professional NZ rugby team was referred to in the media of the time. I have trouble telling whether they're talking about RU or RL actually (Dally Messenger is talked about in the RU section). Perhaps you'd be able to match its info up with what you have on that tour from other sources and see if there's anything useful in there. It also features a great peice on Henry Baskerville.--Jeff79 (talk) 15:23, 20 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Cheers Mattlore (talk) 23:40, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

fullname
Hi there, I did look through the wikiproject to make sure I wasn't mistaken. Just taking a lead from other projects, as I said did give it a look through and couldn't find anything regarding the move away. My feelings are that it looks a little informal, whether under a picture, the standard image or no space. I certainly don't think Brett Kimmorley signs his cheques Noddy (an attempt at humour). Many thanks for your attention to this matter.Lando09 (talk) 05:36, 27 November 2009 (UTC)
 * I thought it best not to just revert them straight back, but it doesn't sit well with me on the nicknames front, it just seems quite informal.Lando09 (talk) 05:44, 27 November 2009 (UTC)

Protecting pages?
How do you protect pages? i want the page Stan Walker protected from vandalism so that only people who have wikipedia accounts can edit the pageYoundbuckerz (talk) 11:04, 27 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Requests for page protection is what you're after. Mattlore (talk) 12:05, 27 November 2009 (UTC)