User talk:Maxiefoxy

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Happy editing! Ben ❯❯❯  Talk  10:19, 4 June 2021 (UTC)

Queensland University of Technology Student Guild
Nine years ago, I had found the article on the Queensland University of Technology Student Guild and initiated a discussion about its notability (see Talk:Queensland University of Technology Student Guild). Admittedly, that proposal saw no other participants, so my merge was unopposed and I proceeded. Now I see that you have undone that and restored a full article, but I don't see that the organization is any more notable now than it was nine years ago. I think it would be sufficient to have a section on the Student Guild within the main Queensland University of Technology article, but I don't feel there is a need for a standalone article. Can you please comment on your thoughts why you disagree? WikiDan61 ChatMe!ReadMe!! 12:12, 4 June 2021 (UTC)

Hi Dan, my name is Max. I'm Vice-President (Campus Culture) of the QUT Guild this year. The QUT Guild is a multi-million dollar statutory not-for-profit that exists independently from the university. Given their entirely different structures, histories, goals and achievements, I think that it is not appropriate for the student union to be nestled within the university. This is especially the case given that the University quite regularly wants to take over control of Guild initiatives that are successful. The organisation has suffered over time from information being lost, due to the yearly changeover of executive members and the political nature of the role. I'm confident however that secondary documentation can verify much of the content I'm restoring. For similar organisations, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Queensland_Union https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_National_University_Students%27_Association https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Sydney_Students%27_Representative_Council https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adelaide_University_Union https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monash_Student_Association https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RMIT_University_Student_Union and more.

Hope that helps Maxiefoxy (talk) 12:24, 4 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Max, as an officer of the QUT Student Guild, you have a conflict of interest regarding this topic and should refrain from editing the article further. Instead, you should make any requested changes as edit requests on the article's talk page. Further, the corporate nature of the organization isn't really important; almost every university's student union runs as an organization independent of the university in order to better represent the needs of the students to the university. That does not make your organization unique. I will also point out the Wikipedia maxim: the existence of other bad articles at Wikipedia doesn't justify the existence for this bad article. Which is not to say your article is "bad" per se, just that it does not demonstrate the organization's notability sufficiently to justify its existence as a standalone article. WikiDan61 ChatMe!ReadMe!! 12:33, 4 June 2021 (UTC)

Alright, I will make changes in the talk page. I'm new to wikipedia editing. However, the page does not belong in the university page. It is notable due to its substantial secondary coverage.


 * https://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/national/queensland/students-push-to-increase-share-of-student-fees-20191127-p53el9.html
 * https://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-06-16/puppies-and-ball-pits-help-university-students-de-stress/7516386
 * Bare mention in passing in an article about a completely different topic.
 * https://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/national/queensland/me-at-20-queensland-politicians-take-up-latest-social-media-trend-20200420-p54lcu.html
 * Bare mention in passing in an article about a completely different topic.
 * https://www.couriermail.com.au/subscribe/news/1/?sourceCode=CMWEB_WRE170_a_GGL&dest=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.couriermail.com.au%2Fnews%2Fqueensland%2Fcrime-and-justice%2Fqut-and-affiliates-sued-for-8m-over-kangaroo-point-cliffs-abseiling-accident%2Fnews-story%2Fb6d75608c4c14655dd2a97cfc2ca45d2
 * Paywalled. Not disallowed, but I can't assess. The fact that QUT was sued over a student activities accident leads me to believe that the QUT SG were also being sued (rather than representing the injured student). I'm guessing here and could be wrong.
 * https://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-02-02/students-angered-over-changes-to-travel-concessions-in-seq/5233152
 * Not a story about the QUT SG, but rather one where the QUT SG President spoke on an issue concerning many students
 * https://www.couriermail.com.au/subscribe/news/1/?sourceCode=CMWEB_WRE170_a_GGL&dest=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.couriermail.com.au%2Fnews%2Fqueensland%2Fqut-student-politics-a-farce-elections-not-fair-nor-democratic%2Fnews-story%2F87b781ead804ac2e16b08b85111074dc&memtype=anonymous&mode=premium
 * Paywalled, but from the headline, it appears to disparage the QUT SG politics. Are you sure this is a source you want to use to write about this group? (Remember the law of unintended consequences: I have seen people fight for the retention of articles on Wikipedia only to find that other editors found so much negative information about the subject that the original author regretted creating the article in the first place.)
 * https://blairspeak.com/2018/08/14/students-outraged-by-qut-guilds-dirty-election-tactics/
 * Same as above: negative consequences
 * https://www.theaustralian.com.au/higher-education/queensland-university-of-technology-youth-group-in-leftwing-bias-row/news-story/4bb4ae990e26a29c922cedde33788ffa
 * Paywalled, but the headline looks like more disparaging coverage
 * https://redflag.org.au/index.php/node/6858
 * More disparaging content
 * https://www.couriermail.com.au/subscribe/news/1/?sourceCode=CMWEB_WRE170_a_GGL&dest=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.couriermail.com.au%2Feducation-queensland%2Flow-fail-student-union-slams-qut-amid-toxic-culture-claims%2Fnews-story%2Fbafa8c22838041737552bcc59ff09115&memtype=anonymous&mode=premium
 * Paywalled, but the headline promises more disparaging content


 * Max, I've comment on each of the sources you've provided. The only content about the QUT SG that is "significant" is also quite negative. Are you sure this is the content you want to use to build the article about the organization you represent? I'm strongly recommending that you revert the article to a redirect. WikiDan61 ChatMe!ReadMe!! 14:09, 4 June 2021 (UTC)

The QUT student guild has contributed significantly to the political and educational landscape of Queensland and Australia. The support and implementation of the #saveourstudents campaign with the national union of students, referenced in the “low fail” article you believe is disparaging (other way round, the Guild graded the University a low fail) is another instance in a long history of education activism

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2007-05-15/students-slam-qut-plan-to-dump-humanities/2548996

Where the QUT guild president is speaking about an issue that affects all students, they are speaking with the authority of the entire organisation, the president is just the spokesperson.

I’m not sure where you’re from but public liability insurance payouts are decided in court here - that what the kangaroo point article references.

The other articles you point out are negative - yes, they are negative, because those things happened. A different team leads the Guild every year.

The article on free speech is an example of a political football at Australian universities - the government says there’s a crisis - there isn’t.

The queer department recently secured a change in state legislation by organising a petition.

https://qnews.com.au/queensland-government-to-introduce-vital-trans-reform-bill-later-this-year/

If the guild is to be put under any other page it should be student unionism in Australia, not QUT.

With notable alumni including four current members of parliament, and both state and national coverage on education, LGBTQIA+ rights and free speech issues I think clearly demonstrates the notability of the Guild in its own right.

WP:AFCRC
I noticed you added a redirect request at WP:AFC/R. Because you have an account, you can create redirects (see How to make a redirect). Also, please don't create a redirect request towards a redirect (see Double redirects). Thanks! &#8213; Qwerfjkl  &#124; 𝕋𝔸𝕃𝕂 (please use&#32; on reply) 19:34, 4 June 2021 (UTC)

Hi there, I didn’t want it to be a double redirect, another Wiki editor believes that the page should be under the QUT page and not its own entry, despite them being completely separate organisations run by different people. Trying to figure out a way of convincing them otherwise because other student unions around the country have their own Wikipedia entry (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Queensland_Union?wprov=sfti1 for the same organisation type at the other university in the city) Maxiefoxy (talk) 22:36, 4 June 2021 (UTC)