User talk:Mcattell/Archive1

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Welcome to WikiProject Germany


Welcome,, to the WikiProject Germany! Please direct any questions about the project to its talk page. If you create new articles on Germany-related topics, please list them at our announcement page and tag their talk page with our project template WikiProject Germany. A few features that you might find helpful:
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Welcome!
 Hi, and welcome to the Military history WikiProject! As you may have guessed, we're a group of editors working to improve Wikipedia's coverage of topics related to military history.

A few features that you might find helpful:


 * Our navigation box points to most of the useful pages within the project.
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 * The project has several departments, which handle article quality assessment, detailed article and content review, offline publication, article improvement contests, and other tasks.
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If you have any questions, please don't hesitate to ask one of the project coordinators, or any experienced member of the project, and we'll be happy to help you. Again, welcome! We look forward to seeing you around! Carom 19:42, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

Commercial use of Image:Hitler Rohm.jpg
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Duplicate images uploaded
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The Military history WikiProject Newsletter: Issue XVI (June 2007)
The June 2007 issue of the Military history WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you.

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Your request
Hi; I am just cooking my dinner. I will look at article and get back to you ASAP. --Anthony.bradbury"talk" 19:12, 14 July 2007 (UTC)


 * I have read through the article, on which I think you have actually done a fine job. I corrected the link on Karl Ernst - he showed as a redlink but it was an article I knew I had worked on. Rather than going into the text, I will put my suggestions onto the articles talk page, and you can select from them as you wish. --Anthony.bradbury"talk" 20:15, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

Night of the Long Knives
Hi; I know that I said I would post on the article talk-page, but I found a number of things to say, and I didn't want some other editor to mess with them before you saw them. So, here goes:-

It is not agreed who initiated the purge. According to the testimony of Wilhelm Frick at Nuremburg (and his memory was wretched by then) it was Himmler who persuaded Hitler that Rohm was planning a putsch, and Himmler who enlisted Goering. Both had much to gain by the downfall of Rohm - the independence of the SS for Himmler, and the hoped for (but not attained) command-in-chief of the Reich armed forces for Goering.

Hitler left Berlin on June 28th to attend the wedding of Gauleiter Terboven. It could be inferred that he did not at that time feel that his position was threatened.

The casulaty list; Hitler claimed in his speach in the Reichtag on July 13th that 61 had been shot, 13 died resisting arrest and 3 committed suicide. The White Book of the Purge, published by emigrés in Paris claims 401 deaths, but lists only 116 of them. At the 1957 trial in Munich the figure "more than 1000" was used.

Gustav von Kahr, according to the records, did not die in "a hail of bullets", which in any case sounds a bit too much like a John Wayne movie. His body was found in a wood outside Munich; he had been hacked to death, it appeared by pickaxes.

If you want to claim that Rohm lobbied Hitler to be appointed Minister of Defence, you need to provide sources. That he wanted to be appointed as Commander-in-Chief of a National Army derived from the Sturmabteilung is recognised, but the two posts were not at that time held by the same person.

I cannot find sources linking Heydrich to action in the Purge, although I cannot refute it either. Heydrich only became prominent after April 20th, 1934, when Himmler was appointed as head of the Prussian Poitical Police, or Gestapo. Heydrich was at this time head of the SD.

Alfried Krupp died in 1887, and I assume that his inclusion in the article is a simple linkage error.

At the meeting between Hitler and Hindenburg at Neudeck on 21st June 1934, Blomberg is recorded as playing a more central role than you state, in that he is reported to have shed his rather servile rôle and to have upbraided Hitler for his failure to curb the SA, in line with the Deutschland agreement.

The insignia tearing-off episode occurred after the SA leaders had been arrested, and happened only to Obergruppenfuhrer Schneidhuber, a former army colonel and at the time chief of the Munich Police.

You do not mention, but could, that Edmund Heines and his sexual partner were immediately shot in the Hotel grounds on the personal order of Hitler.

A purely personal opinion; I think that the phrase "gunned down" is a little over-dramatic; I would have used either "executed" or the more prosaic "shot".

It could be mentioned in the text, although it is in the victim list, that von Papen's associates who were killed wer Herbert von Bose, Edgar Jung, and Erich Klausener, the leader of Catholic Action. Papen was still Vice-Chancellor, and to have three of his confidantes, including his secretary killed seems significant.

Lippert, one of the executioners of Rohm, was tried for this crime in Munich in 1957.

Rohm's last words might add colour to the article. They were "If I am to be killed, let Adolf do it himself".

Ann additional victim; Willi Schmid was the music critic of the Meunchener Neuste Nachrichten a Munich newspaper, as was killed by the Munich SS. He was mistaken for Willi Schmidt, an SA leader who was also killed.

Right, I hope that that is enough to be going on with. Please do not feel that you must include all of these things. I will watch with interest. --Anthony.bradbury"talk" 21:26, 14 July 2007 (UTC)


 * You are welcome. Good luck. --Anthony.bradbury"talk" 00:11, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

Sure thing
Yeah, I'd love to read and review the article! I just don't have a whole lot of time today. I will have to get to it later after I'm done being busy around the house and in the yard. I peeked at it for a bit, and it looks impressive, although a short article, but sometimes short and to the point is a good thing.--PericlesofAthens 16:12, 15 July 2007 (UTC)


 * The article is improving as I watch. Great. Are you aiming for Good Article or Featured? Over the next few days I will try and pick up on some of the redlinked victims, who will need blue linkage if you want WP:FA status. --Anthony.bradbury"talk" 20:09, 15 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Yes, I saw that you had transcluded my e-mail into the talk page of the article. I am delighted that you have achieved WP:GA status. I have never produced either a featured or a good article, and to be honest never expect to. My articles, of which there are many, tend to be short. I will add anything which I feel might be valuable: anything debatable I will run past you first. --<b style="color:red;">Anthony.bradbury</b><sup style="color:black;">"talk" 20:31, 15 July 2007 (UTC)


 * The trial of Lippert, and the last words of Rohm, are quoted in "The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich" by William Schirer, but I do not have primary sources. One reason why I did not change the article. The last words were quoted in the Munich trial by a police lieutenant eye-witness, but I do not have his name. The Munich trial is, of course, a matter of record, which can safely be quoted. --<b style="color:red;">Anthony.bradbury</b><sup style="color:black;">"talk" 20:39, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

I really like the article now. I think that you might well go for WP:FA on this. Anything else I can help with, please do not hesitate to ask. --<b style="color:red;">Anthony.bradbury</b><sup style="color:black;">"talk" 23:21, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

Wish
You know, I really wish that I had sat down and written this article. Obviously, I could have done so. It simply did not occur to me! But your contribution is outstanding; please ask if you need any extra data to bring it to [WP:FA]] status. The credit will remain yours. --<b style="color:red;">Anthony.bradbury</b><sup style="color:black;">"talk" 23:26, 15 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Did you not like the bit about it being only Schneidhuber who had his indignia torn off by Hitler? Incidentally, he died without ever knowing why - his last words are reported as being (in translation) "gentlemen, I don't know what this is about, but shoot straight". --<b style="color:red;">Anthony.bradbury</b><sup style="color:black;">"talk" 23:28, 16 July 2007 (UTC)


 * I just noticed that you state that Röhm was one of the founders of the NSDAP. This is an arguable point. Certainly he joined the party before Hitler, but the founder of the party was Anton Drexler. Some people would say that the co-founder was Karl Harrer. It is a definition question. And, to be fair, a minor point. --<b style="color:red;">Anthony.bradbury</b><sup style="color:black;">"talk" 23:39, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

I added small bits about Scheidhuber and Heines. I hope you are happy with this? I know full well that no-one owns wiki articles, but I do feel that major authors should have some sort of veto. --<b style="color:red;">Anthony.bradbury</b><sup style="color:black;">"talk" 00:35, 18 July 2007 (UTC)


 * I took as my authority William Shirer, writing in "The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich". As he was on the spot at the time, I feel it is reasonsble to quote him as a primary source.I have no other - there was no documentation made (or at least none surviving) on either Schneidhuber or Heines. But I do not see it as controversial. --<b style="color:red;">Anthony.bradbury</b><sup style="color:black;">"talk" 00:30, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I think they are excellent quotes. If you could add citations to the specific pages (or give me page numbers and I'll add the cites), that would be great.--Mcattell 00:33, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

Night of the Long Knives
Hi, i've posted a few comments on the review as requested, mainly about the lead and images. I'm sorry I couldnt give you any detail about the content as I know little about the history of the third reich. LordHarris 14:33, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

RE: Muggle
Hi Mcattell. My sincerest apologies. I was attempting the same thing but I must have reverted to the wrong revision in error. I am sorry that a) I made you have to complete it again and b) linked you to vandalism. Hope you have a great day. Nicko (Talk•Contribs) Review my progress! 15:12, 21 July 2007 (UTC)