User talk:Mdennis (WMF)/Archive 7

FYI
FYI. Best. Biosthmors (talk) pls notify me (i.e. ) while signing a reply, thx 11:46, 24 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks, User:Biosthmors. I appreciate your willingness to be open. :) However, it's a community page, and while as you know I'm perfectly happy to make suggestions to you, I don't know that I'm currently comfortable with more directly working on it. Among other things, I would not wish to inadvertently suggest that I tacitly agree with material if I don't change it, when in fact I may not know or simply might not have reviewed it. --Maggie Dennis (WMF) (talk) 12:53, 24 September 2013 (UTC)
 * You're welcome. Thanks for the feedback. I incorporated it. =) Biosthmors (talk) pls notify me (i.e. ) while signing a reply, thx 12:59, 24 September 2013 (UTC)
 * I don't know if you'd want to create a new section, but IEGs are available for more than just tech. :) This is a great example of a non-tech but project being funded. --Maggie Dennis (WMF) (talk) 12:40, 25 September 2013 (UTC)
 * We'll I've submitted a couple IEGs myself. They're tiny. Two that total up to $50 for my time, but I think it's the process and the progress that's more important than the money. I'm familiar with Ocaasi's work. We're both active with Wiki Project Med. Thanks! Biosthmors (talk) pls notify me (i.e. ) while signing a reply, thx 13:15, 1 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Noted, but I might start trouting you if you don't fix my trangressions! This is Wikipedia, the place where anyone can edit! ;-) I can't remember why you said you didn't want to edit the page now... O well. Fixed. And please notify me next time with a mention if it will spur corrective edits. I didn't notice this 'til now. Thanks. Biosthmors (talk) pls notify me (i.e. ) while signing a reply, thx 13:19, 1 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Sure, . And I've responded to a couple of threads above. --Maggie Dennis (WMF) (talk) 14:19, 1 October 2013 (UTC)

A simple idea
You're be glad to know that, for once, I have a very simple idea. I was looking at Community_Logo/Request_for_consultation and specifically the categories it was in and was somewhat surprised to see that it wasn't in some sort of "Request for consultation" or other category grouping together pages where the WMF is looking for community feedback. Is it worth creating a couple of categories, one for current consultations and one for completed ones? I know this would probably make more sense on your meta user page but I'm much more likely to notice replies here. Dpmuk (talk) 18:32, 26 September 2013 (UTC)
 * That sounds like a good idea. :) I'll run it by the lawyers to see if there's language they suggest. (And the "which project?" question is one that will be answered by FLOW. :D) --Maggie Dennis (WMF) (talk) 19:33, 26 September 2013 (UTC)
 * They did. :) m:Category:Legal department community consultation. There are more discussions that belong in there, but I have to figure out where to tag them. The talk page? I wouldn't want to tag, say, the Terms of Use. :/ --Maggie Dennis (WMF) (talk) 13:41, 27 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Cool. I like it when I have simple ideas!  I also think that category possibly belongs as part of a larger "WMF community consultations" category although that may be straying further from your area. Dpmuk (talk) 19:09, 27 September 2013 (UTC)
 * At this point, that's a little harder since many WMF consultations take place elsewhere. :D Legal tends to stay in one place. --Maggie Dennis (WMF) (talk) 20:32, 27 September 2013 (UTC)

More liasing to do...
FYI Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents At least this one is low drama NE Ent 02:19, 1 October 2013 (UTC)
 * I'll touch base with legal. :) --Maggie Dennis (WMF) (talk) 11:24, 1 October 2013 (UTC)

Centijimbos
Maggie, could I please list this account at Centijimbos? Thanks. Biosthmors (talk) pls notify me (i.e. ) while signing a reply, thx 13:47, 1 October 2013 (UTC)

By the way, do you know if you've gotten an appreciable talk page watcher boost on this account lately? Best. Biosthmors (talk) pls notify me (i.e. ) while signing a reply, thx 13:48, 1 October 2013 (UTC)
 * I guess so, User:Biosthmors, if you want to. :) I don't know if I've gotten more watchers lately - I honestly don't usually look at that. (Wow. People are way more interested in my volunteer work, it seems. :D .) --Maggie Dennis (WMF) (talk) 14:27, 1 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Go you! =) Biosthmors (talk) pls notify me (i.e. ) while signing a reply, thx 14:29, 1 October 2013 (UTC)

Office hours log links
Hello Maggie, a small request for announcements of office hours (say, on the VP): it would be handy to have links to the [future] logs on meta. :)  Be well,  –  SJ  +  12:54, 2 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Hello, Sj. That sounds like a good idea. The link autogenerates when you list it after it's over on Meta, but it's not a complicated URL so I ought to be able to figure it out. :) I'll try to keep that in mind next time I announce any office hours. --Maggie Dennis (WMF) (talk) 11:06, 3 October 2013 (UTC)

Usernames for board members?
Maggie, would you happen to know the username of Bishakha Datta or how I might find it? It seems there is no category that is similar to Category:Wikimedia Foundation staff (with English Wikipedia user accounts listed). Thanks. Biosthmors (talk) pls notify me (i.e. ) while signing a reply, thx 10:32, 22 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Board member accounts are linked from m:Wikimedia Foundation Board of Trustees. Her username is User:Bishdatta. --Maggie Dennis (WMF) (talk) 11:33, 22 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks. Biosthmors (talk) pls notify me (i.e. ) while signing a reply, thx 11:37, 22 October 2013 (UTC)

WP:OFFICE housekeeping
Please see this edit if you're short of things to do; it's nowhere near an emergency and can easily wait if you have any other matters to attend to. Nyttend (talk) 02:25, 27 October 2013 (UTC)
 * NB - I commented there. :) Philippe Beaudette, Wikimedia Foundation (talk) 08:17, 28 October 2013 (UTC)

WebCite
Hi Maggie. Perhaps this is premature, but after I saw some interest at User talk:Jimbo Wales (now archived), I posted over to WebCite this. And we should have a reply from a WMF tech staff person shortly. So if in a week there's not a reply at m:WebCite, perhaps you could follow up with tech, or do you recommend I just ask Asaf on meta to ask tech again? Thanks. Biosthmors (talk) 11:37, 1 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Hi, . I'm happy to follow up with tech. :) Are you watching the issue? If so, can you post here when there's need? I'm traveling next week and would appreciate the timely reminder. --Maggie Dennis (WMF) (talk) 11:57, 1 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Sure I'll watch and contact you if necessary. Thanks! Biosthmors (talk) 12:24, 1 September 2013 (UTC)


 * (Note to myself, follow up on this via email.) And by the way, I just put in a plug for you to have friendly talk page stalkers. Best regards. Biosthmors (talk) pls notify me (i.e. ) while signing a reply, thx 12:32, 1 October 2013 (UTC)


 * SPhilbrick (from a thread at User talk:West.andrew.g), could I please suggest you contact wmf:User:Quim Gil wmf:User:Qgil about this? You can see towards the bottom of WebCite where Sumana linked to an email from the internet archive. She's on a sabbatical though. Thus Quim. Thanks. Let us know what you hear back here, if you don't mind! Is that OK to ask this of you? Ping to User:West.andrew.g as well. Thanks. Biosthmors (talk) pls notify me (i.e. ) while signing a reply, thx 13:11, 1 October 2013 (UTC)
 * This link wmf:User:Quim Gil failed.-- SPhilbrick (Talk)  13:30, 1 October 2013 (UTC)
 * My apologies SPhilbrick . It is wmf:User:Qgil But nevermind about the request. Sorry to put it on you. I just went ahead and emailed Quim and asked that they update us here when they know something. We should ideally have something at Mentorship programs/Possible projects and a bugzilla feature request (see the definition for that at WP:WMF in an explanatory footnote) for this idea, last I heard. Quim cares about the linkrot issue, so that's great. Biosthmors (talk) pls notify me (i.e. ) while signing a reply, thx 13:42, 1 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Actually, I already took some action. I wrote to Jimbo and gave him a copy of my proposal.-- SPhilbrick (Talk)  14:08, 1 October 2013 (UTC)
 * That can't hurt, thanks, but my personal opinion is that that is not the best way to get things done. I sent him emails about the linkrot issue, and I talked about it to him briefly in person, and I'll tell you he's a busy person with a child. If it's not an ArbCom appeal or something that might hit the international press, I'm not sure it will be on his radar. Biosthmors (talk) pls notify me (i.e. ) while signing a reply, thx 14:15, 1 October 2013 (UTC)
 * I also copied Quim.-- SPhilbrick (Talk)  14:23, 1 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Awesome. Thanks. Biosthmors (talk) pls notify me (i.e. ) while signing a reply, thx 14:35, 1 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Hi &, I'm a bit confused about the proposal. Is it written down somewhere in clear terms so an outsider (like myself now) can look at it an have an idea? If you are proposing a technical project with a clear implementation then Mentorship programs/Possible projects is a good place to start. If you are proposing to poll funding for an initiative or your idea still is in an early stage then m:Grants:IdeaLab is a better start. Documenting and discussing your plan publicly in the community with potential contributors will probably help you better than trying to get minutes of attention from busy celebrities. :) In any case: my best wishes. Memory is important and, indeed, there is more and more memory only to be found in archived web pages.--Qgil (talk) 20:03, 2 October 2013 (UTC)

Well then. I guess I really need to get writing in the IdeaLab, given the other thing I was already planning to write up there yesterday. Thanks Qgil. Biosthmors (talk) pls notify me (i.e. ) while signing a reply, thx 08:02, 3 October 2013 (UTC)
 * m:Talk:WebCite. And User:Sphilbrick. Biosthmors (talk) pls notify me (i.e. ) while signing a reply, thx 18:22, 28 October 2013 (UTC)

Notification feature
Please send my thanks to the WMF for the cool notifications feature for when people link to a page I created. =) Biosthmors (talk) pls notify me (i.e. ) while signing a reply, thx 09:05, 29 October 2013 (UTC)
 * it's always nice to pass along positive comments. :D Thanks, and I will do. --Maggie Dennis (WMF) (talk) 10:31, 30 October 2013 (UTC)
 * You're welcome. I wish I could just leave a positive comment alone =) but I do hope we've deactivated the "revert" notification from clicking the undo button, because it could be used only for a partial revert, or only to prove the point that it doesn't guarantee a revert. I mentioned that at WP:VPT a while back, but I haven't followed up. Do you happen to know anything about that? Biosthmors (talk) pls notify me (i.e. ) while signing a reply, thx 10:50, 30 October 2013 (UTC)

"Happy Diwali!"
That's beautiful. :) Thank you. --Maggie Dennis (WMF) (talk) 12:59, 4 November 2013 (UTC)

I emailed Sue and Matthew Roth
Maggie, I emailed Sue and Matthew Roth over the weekend about the possibility of the WMF issuing a follow-up press release following the community ban for Wiki-PR. I also sent Sue a detailed email introducing myself. If I don't hear anything back from either of the two (it's been over 48 hours so far), how should I interpret that? Biosthmors (talk) pls notify me (i.e. ) while signing a reply, thx 12:51, 29 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Matthew sent a reply. Maybe Sue will one day. So nevermind and thanks anyways. Biosthmors (talk) pls notify me (i.e. ) while signing a reply, thx 17:57, 29 October 2013 (UTC)
 * , although this one is handled, I did want to speak to the general question. :) As part of my job, I routinely reach out to staff as well occasionally as professionals outside of the Wikimedia Foundation. As a general rule of thumb, I follow-up on non-urgent communications 7 days after my first approach. For more timely communications, obviously, I may bump faster - the more urgent, the sooner. But 48 hours wouldn't strike me as an unduly long time to wait for a response from Matthew, and certainly not from Sue, who is extremely busy. :) Sue is very responsible with her mail, but does not always respond directly. As the ED, she does delegate sometimes - she doesn't have capacity by a long shot to handle everything that crosses her desk, and she relies on her team to help carry that load. I don't know if, knowing Matthew is handling this, she will respond. If she does not, I'm sure it'll be because she knows this is in good hands. :) --Maggie Dennis (WMF) (talk) 10:31, 30 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the info. That will help me calibrate things better. Biosthmors (talk) pls notify me (i.e. ) while signing a reply, thx 10:52, 30 October 2013 (UTC)


 * By the way, do WMF employees and contractors have 20% time to work on things in their interest that are mission aligned? Biosthmors (talk) pls notify me (i.e. ) while signing a reply, thx 10:53, 30 October 2013 (UTC)


 * And if you run into her and get a chance, please tell Sue I would like to edit my email subject line, then, on my follow up email, because it was inappropriate. But I guess you can hold of on my critique that the WMF hasn't come up with a technological solution to editing old gmail subject lines. ;-) Biosthmors (talk) pls notify me (i.e. ) while signing a reply, thx 11:31, 30 October 2013 (UTC)
 * User:Biosthmors, I can tell you certainly that not all employees and contractors have 20% time to work on things in their interest that are mission aligned. :) The idea of having 8 (or more) hours a week to work on the copyright backlog puts stars in my eyes, but, alas, this remains all volunteer time and must be done outside of my work hours. I believe this is the case in the engineering department, but I'm not sure if it's for everyone and would be surprised if it was. If you want a definite answer, let me know, and I'll try to find out.


 * I would love for the WMF to come up with a way to edit old Gmail subject lines. Or even "call back" missent emails! Just yesterday I sent one to OIT and then fixed the problem myself literally within the next minute. Oh, well. :/ --Maggie Dennis (WMF) (talk) 14:04, 30 October 2013 (UTC)


 * User:Sue Gardner, wise director of the wp:the kids, I plead my case to you. Please allow mission aligned 20% Wikimedia volunteer editing time. =) Or does that create legal concerns if they are editing content? Anyhow. Please? =) Biosthmors (talk) pls notify me (i.e. ) while signing a reply, thx 14:08, 30 October 2013 (UTC)

Just to let you know, User:Biosthmors, I did a bit of poking and evidently the 20% policy was specifically for engineering and is now defunct. The policy now, evidently, is mw:Mentorship programs/LevelUp. --Maggie Dennis (WMF) (talk) 16:23, 31 October 2013 (UTC)
 * And Sumana's on sabbatical, so who's matchmaking now? Biosthmors (talk) pls notify me (i.e. ) while signing a reply, thx 16:24, 31 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Have not figured that out yet.... --Maggie Dennis (WMF) (talk) 16:25, 31 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Any update? Biosthmors (talk) pls notify me (i.e. ) while signing a reply, thx 11:01, 12 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Are there people inside the WMF that dislike the IEG program? If so, who are they and why do they dislike it? Biosthmors (talk) pls notify me (i.e. ) while signing a reply, thx 11:02, 12 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Biosthmors, I believe it may be on hiatus with Sumana, but am waiting to talk to her about it when I can. In respect to your latter question, I have no idea. :) Nobody has ever mentioned it to me. --Maggie Dennis (WMF) (talk) 13:51, 12 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks, and just a note for anyone, I have a potential COI because I have applied for grants in the IEG program before. Biosthmors (talk) pls notify me (i.e. ) while signing a reply, thx 15:04, 12 November 2013 (UTC)

Anonymized surveys of WMF staff/contractors released publicly?
I'm curious what WMF people think. Has there ever been a survey with the results published? For example, I'd love to know the answer to this question: "if three people had to be fired, which ones would you recommend for termination to increase WMF efficiency and impact?" I'd like to see the names and the frequencies on the results released under an open license. Would Sue do that for us? Thanks. Biosthmors (talk) pls notify me (i.e. ) while signing a reply, thx 12:46, 17 November 2013 (UTC)
 * WMF began an annual employee engagement survey in 2012. (see m:Employee engagement survey for more information and a video discussion of last year's results.) The 2013 survey is currently being analyzed. That question is not on it.


 * We also do an annual 360-degree feedback process which is not public. Employees review ourselves and are reviewed by our managers and teammates as well as a sampling of employees from other teams and departments who engage with us in the course of their work. (This is a sensible arrangement, as I'm hardly in position to assess the efficiency and impact of accounting staff, for instance, most of whom I've never spoken to, and they're not really in position to assess mine, either.) These assessments are compiled into a map demonstrating strengths and areas for improvement, and each employee is given a development plan based on it. The results are confidential between the employee, his or her manager, and human resources.


 * The decision to add such a question to any of our surveys would be an HR one, not a Sue one. I'll toss it in the suggestion box under your name, if you like.


 * I'm curious - have you ever worked for a company that solicited such feedback from staff and published the recommended choplist publicly for everyone to review? Never mind on the internet under free license, but even on a bulletin board somewhere. I'd be interested to hear how that worked for them, in terms of employee morale and team building. --Maggie Dennis (WMF) (talk) 14:33, 17 November 2013 (UTC)
 * I would never, ever work for an organization that did this. Ever.  And if the Foundation asked me this question in an official capacity, I'd tender my resignation immediately.--Jorm (WMF) (talk) 17:15, 17 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Maybe it feels icky, but given the recent history of the WMF (up from a handful of employees to 175 in a matter of years), it seems like a perfectly logical question to ask. Biosthmors (talk) pls notify me (i.e. ) while signing a reply, thx 17:25, 17 November 2013 (UTC)
 * I've never heard of a company of any size ever asking such a question, and I am quite certain that any legitimate surveyor would strongly argue against including such an idea. Staff surveys are not intended to be punitive toward individuals (as this question would undoubtedly be), they are intended to identify organizational or systemic weaknesses and strengths, providing relatively objective data in order to find areas where changes are most likely to have desired impacts. These documents also tend to be internally confidential, particularly in fields where there is significant competition for qualified staff. It's a really horrifically bad way to treat people - nobody would have any idea whether or not they'd be the target of such comments, leading to very significant uncertainty. I can't imagine any good employers considering adding such a question to their survey, and even the worst employers would be much more likely to forego seeking staff opinion than to add such a question. Risker (talk) 22:23, 17 November 2013 (UTC)
 * I've never head of any org doing this, either. Even the suggestion would probably make the HR staff break out in a bad rash.  It has a significant risk of resulting in lawsuits for not merely permitting, but systematically institutionalizing a hostile work environment.  Also, it's easy enough to predict the results:  any person who job involves saying "no", plus any legally protected minority, especially including sexual minorities and people with disabilities.  Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 22:33, 17 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Sorry everyone, this is in the "bad idea" territory. Maybe my next idea won't be so bad. Biosthmors (talk) pls notify me (i.e. ) while signing a reply, thx 11:21, 18 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Folks, not every suggestion warrants a detailed response. Johnuniq (talk) 00:58, 18 November 2013 (UTC)
 * If you can show evidence that I don't learn from my bad ideas, Johnuniq, I'd love to see it. Please, well nevermind, I'm not supposed to say that. Biosthmors (talk) pls notify me (i.e. ) while signing a reply, thx 11:19, 18 November 2013 (UTC)

Photoshop
Photoshop? You don't need no stinkin' photoshop! NE Ent 13:06, 19 January 2014 (UTC)
 * LOL! :) --Maggie Dennis (WMF) (talk) 13:07, 19 January 2014 (UTC)

Should Legal be told of this?
Though obviously not serious, I think Legal should maybe be warned of some possible flak, and I'm not sure how to contact them. Geoff Brigham's en:wp talk page seems lightly used (last edit Sept), and going round all the "Contact us" pages I can't find a way in.

Background: user, posted a fluffy and promotional article about Nawab Faizunnesa Government Girls' High School, a school in Bangladesh. Another user took it over, de-peacocked it and produced a respectable version. Vjaasief reacted with rage, edit-warring to maintain their version, and eventually trying to delete the page and resorting to user-page vandalism and legal threats, and got blocked. The article history page and the user's talk page will give you the idea.

If you think this is too trivial to bother legal with, fine, that's probably right; but if you think they should be alerted, how do I contact them? Regards, JohnCD (talk) 23:18, 18 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Hi, JohnCD. Thank you very much for the notice! The way to reach out to legal is to write legal@undefinedwikimedia.org. This is best for non-urgent legal contacts; if it's urgent, or you think it might be, please email that address and cc liaison@undefinedwikimedia.org. I'll try to make sure it is escalated as appropriate. Emails to the legal mailing list may be reviewed only once or twice a week.


 * That said, that kind of language is really routine - if they haven't already been, can you please be sure they're pointed to wmf:Contact us? If they want to serve legal notice of any kind or explore legal options, they should do so to the WMF. --Maggie Dennis (WMF) (talk) 13:23, 19 January 2014 (UTC)


 * Thanks for reply. I was coming back to say, having slept on it, this is clearly ridiculous; and this morning they evidently think so too: "We will not take any action". Cheers, JohnCD (talk) 14:52, 19 January 2014 (UTC)

Arbcom mailing lists
A question regarding creation of mailing lists for arbcom has arisen here; WMF input is requested. (just by me, not arbcom or anyone important) NE Ent 12:50, 19 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Hi, NE Ent. :) It seems like suggestions include annual lists and individual threads for individual cases. I'm happy to pass that along and see what I can find out. AGK's specific request about the Nightscream thread will, I'm sure, be passed on to User:Philippe (WMF), who liaises with ArbCom specifically. --Maggie Dennis (WMF) (talk) 13:12, 19 January 2014 (UTC)
 * The context of my question is that I'm a real life linux /server techie type and I know that creating GNU mailman lists is not a difficult task. I don't want the current discussion at the AC noticeboard to assume that creating lists will always take weeks when it's probable WMF can provide arbcom a capability for fairly rapid (one business day, maybe) creation of mailing lists at little cost. Whether or not the committee wishes to pursue that solution is, of course, up to them. I don't know what form the final request(s) may take; for example, they may only want a separate case list if some arbitrators recuse. So at this point I suggest making the query to WMF tech a more general "Can we give English Wikipedia arbcom a way to get lists created relatively quickly?" NE Ent 14:03, 19 January 2014 (UTC)
 * I have commented on that thread. Philippe Beaudette, Wikimedia Foundation (talk) 02:29, 20 January 2014 (UTC)

Should en.Wikipedia medical articles have a prominent disclaimer?
Would you please notify Wikimedia's senior legal council of this discussion? --Anthonyhcole (talk · contribs · email) 05:52, 30 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Certainly, Anthonyhcole. :) --Maggie Dennis (WMF) (talk) 12:47, 30 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks. Presently, the "Disclaimers" link doesn't appear on articles in the default "mobile view", it appears behind a link consisting of three horizontal lines in the top left corner. Oliver asked at bugzilla if that could be moved onto the article and was informed that, because legal is not concerned, his request won't be acted on. Can you tell me, please, who decides this question? I'd like to approach them with a suggestion. (Not the legal question, who decides what to put where in mobile view?) --Anthonyhcole (talk · contribs · email) 12:29, 15 January 2014 (UTC)
 * I don't know, but I will find out. --Maggie Dennis (WMF) (talk) 13:24, 19 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Seems like that might be User:KWang (WMF). If this specific decision is not his, he should be able to give you more information on whose it is. :) --Maggie Dennis (WMF) (talk) 17:18, 21 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Thank you Maggie. --Anthonyhcole (talk · contribs · email) 17:44, 21 January 2014 (UTC)

FYI
Please see: Village pump (technical)/Archive 123. Thanks. --Tryptofish (talk) 17:16, 13 February 2014 (UTC)
 * Thank you. That's driving me nuts. :) --Maggie Dennis (WMF) (talk) 17:21, 13 February 2014 (UTC)
 * Thanks! For a minute, I almost thought I had lost my mind, myself! --Tryptofish (talk) 17:25, 13 February 2014 (UTC)

VisualEditor Translation Issues
I was translating VisualEditor and its user guide into Oromo but before I finish, the link stopped working. When I follow the link to translate the page, then it gives me the following error: The specified group ext-visualeditor does not exist. Can you help me access the page again? I couldn't figure out why. Tumsaa (talk) 08:09, 3 March 2014 (UTC)


 * Hi Tumsaa,
 * Try this link: https://translatewiki.net/w/i.php?title=Special:Translate&group=ext-visualeditor-0-all&language=or
 * I think that will work for you. Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 19:54, 4 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Hi Whatamidoing_(WMF). Thank you very much for your reply. It works now. Tumsaa (talk) 07:56, 5 March 2014 (UTC)

Non-free content
Hello.

There have been suggestions on the hindi wikipedia recently for the creation of a policy for media files, especially considering non-free media content. (hi:विकिपीडिया:चौपाल) The policy is intended to act as an EDP under wmf:Resolution:Licensing_policy. However, even before a draft can be created, there are several points that I think need clarification from the legal team of wikimedia.
 * 1) The resolution says Non-free content used under an EDP must be identified in a machine-readable format. I'm assuming copyright templates and categories are sufficient for such identification. If not, please clarify.
 * 2) The resolution also reads, An EDP may not allow material where we can reasonably expect someone to upload a freely licensed file for the same purpose, such as is the case for almost all portraits of living notable individuals. This is probably the most contentious issue as far as hindi wikipedia is concerned. Small wikis such as the hindi wikipedia (and other indic wikis) have a small userbase usually numbering below 100 active users. So, in this context, the definition of what we can reasonably expect to happen changes. If the small wikis had a large userbase, it could be reasonably expected that someone will upload a free image of a notable person. However, with a tiny userbase, that expectation does not remain reasonable. So, is there any chance of a policy allowing uploading images of living persons (with restrictions about sourcing, resolution etc. of course) being acceptable from a legal point of view? (I know this is a long shot, but I would like to get a clear answer from legal on this, so that the issue is settled once and for all.)
 * 3) The resolution reads that the EDP is to be A project-specific policy, in accordance with United States law and the law of countries where the project content is predominantly accessed (if any). In the case of the hindi wikipedia, the country where the project is predominantly accessed would be India (per the statistics, 90% of pageviews for the last 12 months were from India). Does that mean that the Indian Copyright Act, 1956 would have to be kept in mind while formulating the policy? If yes, we would need information regarding differences between fair use as allowed in U.S law and fair dealing as allowed in Indian law.
 * 4) Also, the policy would need to be clear about how Government of India works may be used. Certain government websites have copyright policies which to the layman (me) seem to be good enough for use as non-free content. For example, see the copyright policy of the Press Information Bureau, and the copyright policy of the Indian army website (NOTE: the latter link might not work, if it doesn't, go to http://indianarmy.nic.in click on Policies at the bottom and then Copyright Policy in the left menu).
 * 5) Lastly, I see that WP:NFCC makes no mention of image resolution and WP:NFC isn't clear on it either, only stating that 1Megapixel is a rough criteria for it. I find this a little out-of-date, since as technology changes and improves, the pixel size of source images is bound to increase. So, I was thinking that instead policy could specify a fraction of the original size as the upper limit for non-free content. So the policy would read something along the lines of In order to ensure that non-free content on wikipedia does not infringe on the commercial usage of the conent by its copyright holder, it may have a mazimum resoultion of one-fourth the size of the original media, or 320 X 240 pixels, whichever is larger. Note that I'm saying whichever is larger, not smaller; so that as technology improves, the policy doesn't need to be changed.

Thanks in advance to the legal team (and anyone else who can help with this issue). Best regards--Siddhartha Ghai (talk) 12:29, 1 April 2014 (UTC)


 * Hello, Siddhartha Ghai. :) I'm happy to pass your request for feedback to the legal team. These are complicated questions, so it may take a little time, but I hope to get you a response as soon as possible. --Maggie Dennis (WMF) (talk) 13:21, 1 April 2014 (UTC)


 * Any updates on this yet?--Siddhartha Ghai (talk) 13:34, 19 April 2014 (UTC)


 * Hi, Siddhartha Ghai. I know it's been discussed, but I'm not sure it's current status. I'll see what I can find out. :) --Maggie Dennis (WMF) (talk) 12:26, 21 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Siddhartha Ghai, it is my hope that this will be completed within the next day or two - or at least by the end of the week. It is in final stages. --Maggie Dennis (WMF) (talk) 13:04, 5 May 2014 (UTC)

legal input request
Administrators'_noticeboard NE Ent 11:03, 7 April 2014 (UTC)
 * NE Ent, this was worked on as recently as Friday. I believe it is awaiting final review. When it's done, I'll track down everybody who posted in that thread who may have interest and let them know. --Maggie Dennis (WMF) (talk) 13:06, 5 May 2014 (UTC)
 * It draws nearer! I checked, and it is moving through the line. --Maggie Dennis (WMF) (talk) 15:52, 15 May 2014 (UTC)

Two questions for you
I have two questions for you not related to copyright for a change, I'm curious if these have already been brought up elsewhere and if so what the outcome was.

First, regarding the WMF's privacy policy as it relates to images uploaded here. I know that in the case of images concerning persons there is an additional banner that calls for care to be used with regards to personality rights, but a brief and not particularly thoroughly researched sweep of our existing privacy policy I see nothing governing the protection of persons from other means of identifications. In this case specifically, the thought dawned on me after seeing this image in which the tow truck's license plate is clearly visible. Given the rise of id theft and the ease with which something like this can allow a person to obtain personal information about others I wonder if it may be in our best interest to blank the information so as not to reveal any personal information to would be ID thieves or God-forbid out someone in the community to people who don't get along with them so the latter camp can use the information to harass the former camp endlessly. This could be particularly important with regards to "drive by shootings" since a photograph taken of car or other form of potentially identifiable medium without the owners consent could have legal ramifications if something along these lines was to happen.

In the second case, as it related to the deletion & protection processes, I'd like to know if it wold be possible to add a collapsible box to the page (like the key box we have for user watchlists) that can link to the relevant policy and/or guideline pages so that new or out of practice admins can quickly que up the that information when going through csd logs and adding page protection. Such a tool could help reduce errors in the deletion process by the new and uninitiated by allowing them to quickly check csd-related deletion criteria and protection criteria against the request on the page to make sure that the requests are grounded correctly. TomStar81 (Talk) 05:19, 3 June 2014 (UTC)


 * Hi, TomStar81. :) I'll have to do some poking around, but I'm not personally familiar with prior discussions on either topic. The former I can probably get an answer to through Meta:Wikilegal, although it can be hard to predict how long that will take. The latter, I'll have to ask some more techy people if they're aware of any reuqests for or movements in that area. I'll get back with you as soon as I can! --Maggie Dennis (WMF) (talk) 15:36, 3 June 2014 (UTC)
 * TomStar81, I think it's technologically possible to add a collapsible box to just about any page, but I'm not sure which one you're talking about. User:Matma Rex will likely have some good insight into this.  Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 21:41, 3 June 2014 (UTC)
 * I could probably help with the technical thingies, but I don't really edit this Wikipedia enough to know how to go about doing such changes. Surely there are technically-minded editors here for whom this is their primary wiki? :) Matma Rex talk 22:00, 3 June 2014 (UTC)
 * @Whatamidoing (WMF): The page I would be adding the toolbox to would be this one (I borrowed Mdennis's talk page for the sake of convenience). As to what I would be adding to the page, I would like to add something similar to the existing Template:Deletion policy list, which itself serves as a cheat sheet to allow the new or out of practice admins to quickly obtain information related to the given csd/afd criteria in question so they can check against the relevant policy/guideline being cited as the reason for deletion in the event they are unsure of or need a quick reminder of how the policy in question relates to the request for deletion. The reason I bring it up is that while the information is on Wiki already, its not in the actual admin-issued deletion page so those new or in need of a mental refresher have to fish the information. I'm of the mind that adding a toolbox or a link or something there could help offset this problem somewhat, since I am one of the admins who tends to be out of practice on deletion when going through csd/afd logs I can say that it would be helpful to me, and if it would be helpful to me then its gotta be helpful to others too. Aside from the now known User:Matma Rex, the only other person I can think of off the top of my head that would be tech savy in this type of work would be User:Kirill Lokshin, whose done a lot of the coding and template related work for the Military history Project. As to the Wikilegal on Meta: unto my experience a legal department usually takes life+forever to answer anything, so I would expect a long wait for an answer.Fortunately for me, I am usually patient on such matters :) TomStar81 (Talk) 03:15, 4 June 2014 (UTC)
 * I decided to do a little more research on license plates and photos here and made an interesting discovery: Apparently the use of our site to obtain license plate(s) for less-than-honorable purposes already occurred back in June 2012 (Here's the story). Accordingly, then, if the legal guys haven't discussed this they're 24-monthes late in catching up with current events. TomStar81 (Talk) 06:33, 4 June 2014 (UTC)


 * Vehicle licence registration probably works differently in different countries and probably comes with different concerns depending on the country of the licence plate. I don't see how seeing a picture of a Swedish licence place would aid identity theft. However, if a user uploads a picture of his own Swedish licence plate, then he is no longer anonymous. If you have a Swedish vehicle licence plate, you can identify the owner by contacting the vehicle register. If you have a person, you can contact the vehicle register to get a list of all vehicles (if any) which are owned by this person. If you have a car model and/or colour, then you can get a list of all cars of the same model and/or colour.
 * Users are hopefully aware of what you can do with car registration numbers in the users' home countries, and are probably aware that they are uploading pictures of their car registration numbers when they do this.
 * I am more concerned about personal information in EXIF data to photographs, since many photographers are unaware of this information and therefore accidentally reveal personal information. For example, I have seen users upload pictures of tools, pets, books and other things typically kept at home or at work, complete with GPS coordinates. These users have accidentally revealed the longitude and latitude to a location just a few metres from the place where the photograph was taken, revealing the users' home addresses.
 * Another problem is the camera serial number, which often appears in EXIF data. Let's say that I find a photo on Commons which was taken using a camera with serial number 123. On some other website, I find another photo which was uploaded using a camera with the same serial number. Now I can make the conclusion that both photographs were taken using the same camera, indicating that the Commons user and the user at the other website either know each other or are the same person. --Stefan2 (talk) 23:25, 7 June 2014 (UTC)
 * The case I am making is that if you cough up say $20 dollars online for a "who does this car belong to" search and get the person's name, then you can do one of those background checks to find out where they live and what they make and all that noise, which can invite the possibility of identity theft, in particular if the person in question wasn't aware of the leak in the first place. God forbid, but if someone at the theme park where I worked had taken a photograph of my car and put it on facebook, for example, then they could have background checked me and then used my name and address to fill out a credit card application or opened a bank account in my name or so forth in that manner and I would have been unaware until the collection agency or agencies showed up at my door step. In some cases users do intentionally do this for reasons that escape me, but in the case of the cars I brought up the plates because its a round about method that someone with intentional malice could use to find and exploit additional identities for malevolent purposes. That is hasn't happened yet (that we know of anyway) doesn't mean it can't, I only wish to draw attention to what I think could be a blind spot in the system that could be exploited at someone else's cost.
 * In the case of the tow truck picture, for example, I could spend $20 at crazy-al's-background-checker.com to learn that John Doe bought the truck with a bank loan, and he lives at 123 easy street. I can then take that information and fill out a credit card application with John Doe's home address, and use that card to eat, drink, and be merry, all because John's truck's license plate was inadvertently photographed by a wikipedian and uploaded here with that information intact. I worry that sooner or later some enterprising soul will reach this same conclusion, hence the question here concerning what our policy is on this. God forbid, but in the above example if the guy gets caught and says he borrowed the information from Wikipedia on CNN or CourTV or some venue like that its gonna result in an id theft gold rush as others set out to repeat the feat. TomStar81 (Talk) 23:43, 7 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Re: the legal question, User:TomStar81, I am still waiting. I believe evaluation is underway. Re: the other, as pretty much suggested above, it seems this is entirely doable but would likely be a matter of community agreement and implementation rather than something staff would take part in directly. :) --Maggie Dennis (WMF) (talk) 15:49, 10 June 2014 (UTC)
 * TomStar81: The problem is that the methods for identity theft vary a lot from country to country. In Sweden, it is not enough to have public information from public registers, such as the vehicle register or the citizen register, in order to steal someone's identity. You also do not need to pay $20 to some shady service to obtain car ownership information – all you need to do is to call or visit the vehicle register, costing you no more than a phone call or a bus ticket. Instead, people who wish to steal other people's identities use other tricks (for example, forged ID cards, theft from other people's mailboxes or change of address submissions to the citizen register). --Stefan2 (talk) 21:54, 11 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Fair enough. Just one of those 'I was concerned' moments with regards to the site, so I thought I'd ask and see what the story or policy or guidelines on here for such things were. Like they say (and like what I've said), "there be no stupid questions save the one not asked." :) In any event, like I've noted before, I didn't look into it too terrible hard before asking here, so there was a lack of research on my part which may or may not have helped things. TomStar81 (Talk) 05:16, 12 June 2014 (UTC)

Copyright bot?
Hi Maggie. At Wikipedia talk:MED, Doc James bemoans the damage done and work created by a couple of long-term copyright violators.

I've wondered for a while about the feasibility of a bot that automatically compares large new additions with Google's cache, and flags the history/watchlist entry of a suspect edit as a possible copyvio, linking to the Google cache page.

I mentioned this a while back (somewhere?) and you opposed the idea, I think. If I've remembered correctly, would you please remind me what you see as the problem with this idea? I'm not referring to technical implementation or technical resource issues - I think your objection was in the realm of it creating too much work, maybe. Cheers. --Anthonyhcole (talk · contribs · email) 02:38, 21 July 2014 (UTC)