User talk:Mellk/Archive 3

GA reasessment
Talk:Russia/GA4Xx236 (talk) 10:14, 6 October 2022 (UTC)

Krasnoznamensk, Kaliningrad Oblast
Please explain to the editor why you are reverting their edits. Thank you. Drmies (talk) 23:16, 9 October 2022 (UTC)


 * Hello Drmies. I was in the process of writing a message on the user's talk page as it would have been easier for me. Thanks. Mellk (talk) 23:20, 9 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Also, I am sure it is part of disruption on Kaliningrad-related articles (because of a "meme") that led to a few articles being protected. Mellk (talk) 23:27, 9 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Gotcha--thanks. They stopped; if there's others doing it, we can block--or, better yet, a filter could be made with the codes in it: if it gets out of hand, you can post at AN, maybe, since I'm about to sign off. Thanks again, Drmies (talk) 01:24, 10 October 2022 (UTC)
 * I am watching those pages so I will see if there will be disruption again (I do not believe there will be anything significant) but yes if it becomes a problem again I will follow that advice. Thanks. Mellk (talk) 14:53, 10 October 2022 (UTC)

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Mordovia
In regards to the edit on Mordovia (I've only just seen the revert), Mordovia is referred as Erzyano-Mokshania in the Free Idel-Ural article a few times, which motivated my edit. Great Mercian (talk) 16:30, 19 November 2022 (UTC)
 * It only returned <100 results on Google so I figured it could not be an alternative name in English (name used by that organization primarily, if it can even be called that). Mellk (talk) 20:25, 19 November 2022 (UTC)

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Nomination of List of Nazi monuments in Canada for deletion
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Russian 2021 census
I see that you are adding the census data, but I did not find any obvious pattern. I am doing the same, starting from the top of the official document (Belgorod, Bryansk, Vladimir, Voronezh, and now Ivanovo Oblast). It would be good to agree to split the work, because otherwise it would be too much trouble opening the articles and checking that the data have been already updated. My rate is about 3-10 articles per day, but I am doing everything which is on the central document, including districts and all settlements above 3K. Ymblanter (talk) 17:19, 1 December 2022 (UTC)
 * I was not following a particular pattern, rather just updating the articles I came across. But yes it would make sense to split this then. In that case, I can go backwards using that document. Regards. Mellk (talk) 17:24, 3 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Great, thanks. For clarity, I only update the text of the articles, we would need to fix templates as well but I have not yet figured out how to modify the code, and this is not my immediate priority right now. Ymblanter (talk) 18:03, 3 December 2022 (UTC)

No more "your edit could not be saved...."....
... because I'm done for today   —  Yulia Romero  •  Talk to me!  16:44, 23 December 2022 (UTC)


 * OK, I think you did a good job there, I think I am also done with the page for now. Mellk (talk) 16:49, 23 December 2022 (UTC)

Thanks and thanks for the tweaks. —  Yulia Romero  • Talk to me!  17:20, 23 December 2022 (UTC)

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Question
Hello. Your help is needed. Earlier, you gave me a link to the site "Google Ngram Viewer", which helps to understand which name is used more often. And how to calculate which name is used more so that it corresponds to the naming rule? Honest of History (talk) 19:20, 7 January 2023 (UTC)


 * I discussed this with someone not long ago, see Talk:Oleg_of_Novgorod. Mellk (talk) 20:01, 7 January 2023 (UTC)

Crimea
Hello! I need your help with editing articles relating to administrative entities, such as cities as towns, in Crimea. VM is at it again with their politically motivated editing. Check my edit history for some examples of articles I am referring to. Thanks in advance. Michael60634 (talk) 20:50, 7 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Please stop trying to WP:CANVASS users to edit war on your behalf.  Volunteer Marek   22:07, 7 January 2023 (UTC)
 * @Volunteer Marek You're the only one here POV pushing and edit warring. I'm trying to keep Wikipedia neutral, and you clearly aren't here to do that. Wikipedia is NOT the place to push your world views. Go write a blog if you want to share your views. Wikipedia is a place for reliable information. In regard to Crimea, it is a fact that Russia is in control of the peninsula.It's obvious that you don't like this fact, and that's completely fine. You are entitled to your opinion. But your opinion is an opinion, not a fact. It doesn't belong on Wikipedia. Removing factual information is NOT constructive and is NOT helpful to readers of Wikipedia. This should be obvious, and I shouldn't have to say it to you, but here we are. Michael60634 (talk) 22:29, 7 January 2023 (UTC)

Chulpan Khamatova political opinions.
Youtube videos are not a reliable source? It was a 1 min video of her saying the exact things that i typed. Did i fake the video? lol. How much more reliable can you get than a video of them saying it? 2A00:23C5:DDA3:9501:BA5F:D0F5:160B:7B29 (talk) 00:12, 11 January 2023 (UTC)


 * Please take a look at WP:RS. This is more strict because of WP:BLP. Mellk (talk) 00:14, 11 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Also does such a remark belong in a biographical article? Was it reported by any news sources for example? Mellk (talk) 00:15, 11 January 2023 (UTC)

Help with Page regarding Soledar
(Inexperienced user, so please guide me if I'm doing this incorrectly) I noticed you were one of the more recent people to touch the Soledar page as regards its accuracy. I feel it's being changed prematurely (as I noted at Talk:Soledar) on the basis of hear-say. I want to defer to a more experienced editor with prior history on the page to check my assessment? PiraticalGhost (talk) 06:48, 11 January 2023 (UTC)


 * Looks like it was resolved. Mellk (talk) 17:03, 11 January 2023 (UTC)

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Ayvazovsʹkyy
Please enlighten me why Ayvazovsʹkyy is not a Ukrainian painter. He was baptized as Hovhannes Aivazian and his background was on his mother and father's side was Armenian. His father was from Galicia and later lived in Bukovena. Just because he was born in Russian-controlled Crimea does not make him a Russian. He was recognized as a Ukrainian painter by the Metropolitan Museum of Art in New York February 9, 2023. Jimbbbo (talk) 00:49, 12 February 2023 (UTC)


 * Please take it to the article talk page and get consensus there instead. Mellk (talk) 01:00, 12 February 2023 (UTC)

Ukrainian language


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thank you for your work on the Ukrainian language article Gerçois (talk) 00:03, 5 March 2023 (UTC)

Bakhchysarai
Good morning, I noticed you reverted my edits to Bakhchysarai. As per WP:BRD, I am starting a discussion in the hopes of reaching consensus to improve this article. I would be grateful for your input at Talk:Bakhchysarai. All the best, Akakievich (talk) 17:33, 22 March 2023 (UTC)

A concern
Hey Mellk, I was wondering why did you revert this edit? It seemed very important here. Thanks, Wikiexplorationandhelping (talk) 15:47, 1 April 2023 (UTC)


 * Congratulations, you got me there. Mellk (talk) 17:02, 1 April 2023 (UTC)

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Demilitarised Zone in Belgorod Oblast
Hello, I wanted to ask what the issue is with my source. I posted a reliable source that proved that that is the goal of the opposition groups, in an interview they said they wanted a delimitarised zone. Zerbrxsler (talk) 22:14, 22 May 2023 (UTC)


 * There is nothing wrong with the source. I just think it is undue to mention this in the lead. If you want, you can add it in the body? Mellk (talk) 22:16, 22 May 2023 (UTC)
 * I re-added it under the attack section. I think such statements belong there. Mellk (talk) 22:19, 22 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks. Why is it undue in the lead? There are several claims of these groups in the lead, and the aims of the opposition are quite important I would argue. Zerbrxsler (talk) 22:25, 22 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Well, I think claims of territorial changes would be important in the lead, and are widely reported, but the claim of creating a DMZ does not seem to be widely reported e.g. and seems to only be mentioned in Ukrainska Pravda from what I can see. Mellk (talk) 22:29, 22 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Alright. It will likely be talked about more soon. I can't add the sources anymore sadly. I found some. https://www.politico.eu/article/pro-ukraine-russian-soldiers-storm-border-region-claim-liberation-of-villages/ https://thehill.com/policy/defense/4015404-anti-putin-group-claims-it-has-liberated-town-inside-russias-belgorod-region/  https://euromaidanpress.com/2023/05/22/russia-evacuates-nuclear-munitions-due-to-incursion-from-ukraine-into-belgorod-oblast-ukraines-intel-spox/  https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/policy/defense-national-security/pro-ukraine-militias-strike-to-liberate-border-region Zerbrxsler (talk) 22:42, 22 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Ah I see, it is also a Ukrainian claim. Then I guess it can be elaborated on in the reactions section. Thanks. Mellk (talk) 22:45, 22 May 2023 (UTC)

Kamianka, Luhansk Raion, Luhansk Oblast
Hello, I'm not sure who else to tell about this so I'll just let you know, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kamianka,_Luhansk_Raion,_Luhansk_Oblast https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pankivka#Peace_Pagoda_Building These two wikipages about villages in Luhansk Oblast have no Infobox and probably outdated information about religious buildings from a user in 2013, I'm not really sure. Henri Gopstein (talk) 18:36, 24 May 2023 (UTC)


 * Do you need a template for the infobox? It might also be possible to add from ru:Каменка (Лутугинский район) uk:Кам'янка (Луганський район) ru:Паньковка (Славяносербский район) uk:Паньківка (Луганський район). Mellk (talk) 18:42, 24 May 2023 (UTC)
 * I will look into the building later, seems to be weakly sourced or mostly unsourced. Mellk (talk) 18:44, 24 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Okay I've added the Infoboxes finally, thanks for directing me to the Ukrainian versions of the article. seems it was written by someone who lives there and so there is information only the person would know in the "All Religions mount" section, problem is that isn't the best source. Henri Gopstein (talk) 20:21, 24 May 2023 (UTC)
 * OK, thanks, nice one. Mellk (talk) 21:21, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

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Dnipro vs Dnieper
I noticed you reverted my edit using Dnipro consistently as opposed to a mixture of Dnieper and Dnipro. English language sources predominantly use Dnipro. We can simply change the infobox Dnieper to Dnipro and then there's no more confusion. See talk: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Destruction_of_the_Kakhovka_Dam#Dnipro_vs_Dnieper AncientWalrus (talk) 18:54, 7 June 2023 (UTC)


 * The article is Dnieper. Thanks. Mellk (talk) 18:55, 7 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Let's discuss on talk, I noticed you didn't just revert but changed some mentions of Dnipro to Dnieper. AncientWalrus (talk) 18:59, 7 June 2023 (UTC)
 * I am not aware of any exceptions on this spelling, but OK, it should be continued on the talk page then. Mellk (talk) 19:02, 7 June 2023 (UTC)
 * What do you mean by exceptions? That the article used Dnipro in some places before my conistency edit? AncientWalrus (talk) 19:06, 7 June 2023 (UTC)
 * It should be consistent with the title (Dnieper) and there has not been any kind of consensus to use a different spelling in certain contexts. Mellk (talk) 19:10, 7 June 2023 (UTC)
 * There's been lots of discussion on Talk:Dnieper as well. I think with common usage in English news changing from Dnieper to Dnipro, like with Kiev to Kyiv, it will sooner or later become Dnipro. AncientWalrus (talk) 19:07, 7 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Well, then it looks like WP:CRYSTAL. Mellk (talk) 19:11, 7 June 2023 (UTC)

Les Sources
What’s the best way of reaching a concord on this matter? Okiyo9228 (talk) 12:33, 9 June 2023 (UTC)


 * Use the article talk page first. Mellk (talk) 12:34, 9 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Merci pour votre coopération. Okiyo9228 (talk) 13:51, 9 June 2023 (UTC)

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Edit warring
Hello, I noticed you reverted some edits on Joseph Stalin and you gave an edit war warning to the concerned user. Because I don't have much experience with edit warring and because I have the same problem with the same user, I want to ask for advice on how to proceed against this or for intervention. Regarding the two pages in question with the same clash of views, I started the discussion (Talk:List of European cities by population within city limits), but after five days of no response, the user just reverted the affected pages. I'm afraid that my next revert won't be considered edit warring on my part. Thank you in advance. FromCzech (talk) 08:05, 27 June 2023 (UTC)


 * If they have already been warned and they violate WP:3RR then a report must be submitted to WP:AN3. As they have not been blocked before this will probably only be a short-term block. On the other hand, they only have 200 edits and their edits in general are disruptive. As you may have seen on Talk:Joseph Stalin, they show problems with competence so if it continues I would suggest to make a report on WP:ANI with diffs showing this. They may just get an indefinite block instead. Though, I may end up submitting a report myself if they continue. Thanks. Mellk (talk) 10:56, 27 June 2023 (UTC)
 * OK, thanks. I'm not sure if this is a case of edit warring when the revert happens after a longer time than within 24h and if I have the right to warn the user. He just keeps reverting and avoids continuation of the discussion. I also don't know if the Joseph Stalin warning is counted for 3RR violation when it is now a different page. FromCzech (talk) 11:45, 27 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Yes, the 3RR warning I gave was for the Joseph Stalin article. In the case of List of European cities by population within city limits, while they have not yet violated 3RR, they do not need to violate 3RR or be close to doing so for it to be considered edit warring (it can be long-term), but WP:AN3 is generally for this. There is also WP:DDE for disruptive editing in general. Since they have a history of this and it seems like a hopeless case (given all the warnings and explanations they've received), ANI would be the venue for this. If they revert again and still do not engage in the talk page discussion, then I would go there. Mellk (talk) 12:00, 27 June 2023 (UTC)
 * As I expected, the user reverted my edit and accused me of edit warring without continuing the discussion. In addition, he commits disruptive editing when, on the List of cities in the European Union by population within city limits, he duplicated the lead in the previous edit and in List of European cities by population within city limits he duplicated the map in the current edit. If I see correctly, the user is also edit warring on the Polish–Soviet War page. Sorry if I'm asking a lot, but can you take care of reporting him somewhere? Thanks. FromCzech (talk) 06:00, 28 June 2023 (UTC)
 * I am not familiar with the disputes on those pages but you can submit a report here and I will add my experiences to the report. Mellk (talk) 11:47, 28 June 2023 (UTC)

Chornobyl articles
Hello, please refrain from any edit warring on the Chornobyl-related articles and discuss it on the relevant Talk pages. I don't have a dog in this fight, but it is long-standing (and recently reconfirmed) practice to use the household term Chernobyl on Wikipedia. While English standard media has begun using Ukrainian spellings for most placenames, Chernobyl remains an exception in the media. This may change in the future, but Wikipedians will probably wait for that more widespread adoption. Sredmash (talk) 15:46, 7 July 2023 (UTC)


 * You are mistaken. I reverted the changes to Chornobyl. Mellk (talk) 17:26, 7 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Aha, I got the links backwards. Cheers. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sredmash (talk • contribs) 23:39, 8 July 2023 (UTC)

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The flags and the COA
does the coat of arms also count as a flag so it shouldn't be included in the infobox? Welso (talk) 13:15, 17 July 2023 (UTC)


 * If you check Template:Infobox officeholder, it says in the template documentation: Please do not re-purpose any fields to add decorative images, icons or flags. Template:Infobox viceroy styles or the like can be used for this. WP:INFOBOXFLAG applies here. It is a good idea to check the template documentation first. For example, it is possible to add such icons in Template:Infobox military conflict. Mellk (talk) 13:26, 17 July 2023 (UTC)

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Edit request
Hello, you recently erased my edits about public opinion in Ukraine,and requested a citation. I just created a wikipedia account so I don't know exactly how to fix the issue you pointed properly, but just so you know, I've taken the information from this link: https://gay.org.ua/blog/2023/02/24/nove-sotsiolohichne-doslidzhennia-pidtverdylo-radykalne-polipshennia-stavlennia-ukrainskoho-suspilstva-do-lhbtk/?fbclid=IwAR1LcFY0UHeAqagBRvLnXMSFXOnjOgm0ORZkVFFBgBSBqXgPANwKZ57mA1g EthariRunaan (talk) 09:54, 27 July 2023 (UTC)


 * To cite sources, see WP:CITE. You can restore the text, just make sure you add the citation too. Thanks. Mellk (talk) 09:56, 27 July 2023 (UTC)

Feedback request: Politics, government, and law request for comment
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Regarding the boorish inappropriate behavior of the administrator and his arbitrariness.
Why you decided that I was a troll to unreasonably throw insults and empty words? It's a pity to look at a bunch of admins offended by something, who delete the correct information for 1 second. Niksh 257 25 (talk) 22:25, 10 August 2023 (UTC)


 * Well, when you refer to other editors as "mentallyretarded crture" and degenerates, what are you doing then? Mellk (talk) 23:31, 10 August 2023 (UTC)
 * v Niksh 257 25 (talk) 07:34, 14 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Well, what if you don’t throw out the words from the song? What to do if this is a solid truth? Let other editors not behave in such a similar way by their actions, and no one will call them that. So, what hypocrisy Wikipedia comes out with: when these other editors write outright nonsense, it means they don’t offend anyone, and their administrators simply turn a blind eye to this and contribute to encyclopedic crimes, while deleting posts instantly for an unfounded reason. You would read it, and then you would write something. And if you don't see it, then in the answer that I wrote and which you blocked, there was not one such insult.
 * Re-read, and then throw ridiculous accusations with insults. You can don't answer because I can't give an answer if Wikipedia will probably block me again. Niksh 257 25 (talk) 07:35, 14 August 2023 (UTC)

Thanks
For your incredible neutrality in dealing with topics related to Ukraine

But for cities in Russian held Donbass, should the de facto country not be Russia? Because the city is occupied and has been annexed (albeit controversially) by Russia - so de facto, it is in Russia? Sng Pal (talk) 12:20, 19 August 2023 (UTC)


 * At the moment there is no consensus to change the country in the infobox (see here for example). Therefore, it should remain how it was (i.e. Ukraine). Additionally, Russia claims ownership of territories it does not control, so it is not possible to say that those cities not under Russian control are occupied or annexed, and it is not a good idea to change the infobox every time someone loses/gains control of a settlement. Depending on how the conflict ends, then maybe a new consensus will form on how to handle this. Mellk (talk) 12:29, 19 August 2023 (UTC)

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your reverts wrt names of Muscovy
Hi! You keep reverting edits to Muscovite (disambiguation) and other such pages, apparently claiming the names of Muscovy and so are not proper. Care to explain why? The name is somewhat dated today, but before 18th century it was primary label. (initial rename in early 18th century, a ban for the old name by late 18th by tzaress Catherine). Thus, the name is valid both because: 1. lingering historic usage today, 2. references to earlier periods. -KiloByte (talk) 13:00, 29 September 2023 (UTC)

You reversions in the articles about Cyrillic


Many nations are still forced to use Cyrillic.

Even Russian Wikipedia says about it!

So we have to say that it wasn't "cultural influence" but it was terror, genocide and planned linguicide.

Why do you think that it was "cultural influence"?

Only nations in area of Stalin terror started to use Cyrillic.

E.g. Mongols was in that area but despite Soviet influence Vietnamese wasn't.

Now Wikipedia translates Russians fairy tails about "cultural influence".

You can see what they did in Ukraine:

They were just murdering all cultural people!

And Wikipedia cannot say that it is against linguicide, because Wikipedia is not against linguicide. Aquawide 107 (talk) 18:02, 4 October 2023 (UTC)


 * Please familiarize yourself with the policies such as WP:OR and WP:V. Mellk (talk) 18:42, 4 October 2023 (UTC)
 * I don't care. Crime against humanity you do is crime against humanity. According to your human law. Aquawide 107 (talk) 19:24, 4 October 2023 (UTC)

WP:CON
Please point to me where it says there that I can't make edits to the page? Korwinski (talk) 03:27, 6 October 2023 (UTC)


 * I did not say that. But when you continue edit warring after receiving a block from this and trying to create an ArbCom request over it, it will likely not end well. Mellk (talk) 03:31, 6 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Thats a lie, because I didn't. As I promised I didn't make any changes, but you abandoned discussion. I patiently waited, but 4 weeks is more enough for you to come up with sources etc. You didn't. As no one else objected, I see no reason to revert edits back. At the moment there’s a stack of organic edits. No prior discussion about parts of the article that I changed. So that "consensus" claim is a BS as literally no one else objects my edits. Korwinski (talk) 03:44, 6 October 2023 (UTC)
 * This is still similar changes to before. Again, read the policy. I have restored part of it anyway and added the source from before. Also, I too can simply say that you "abandoned discussion". Whatever, I was working on other articles. Again, you have the option of WP:3PO, don't post here again. Mellk (talk) 03:52, 6 October 2023 (UTC)

'Russian emperor'
wouldn't "tsar" be more typical? Andre🚐 04:49, 20 October 2023 (UTC)


 * Is this regarding Chișinău? Both are used, "emperor" is just the official title (after 1721) and would be more precise but I do not really mind. We could also just mention the monarch by name (Alexander I of Russia). Mellk (talk) 04:56, 20 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Sure, that works. Andre🚐 04:59, 20 October 2023 (UTC)

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Sylvester Medvedev
Hi thanks for creating this article. When we translate or borrow from other language wikis it’s a requirement to acknowledge the source. The best way to do this is to include it in your edit summary (e.g. “translated from nl.wiki”) and there’s also a translation template you can add to the talk page. If you can confirm where material for this article was sourced I’ll add the template to the talk page for you if it is needed. Happy editing and please leave a message on my talk page if you need any help Mccapra (talk) 06:35, 27 November 2023 (UTC)


 * Hi, I wrote this myself and cited sources I found without translating text from the other projects. Thanks. Mellk (talk) 06:37, 27 November 2023 (UTC)

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&maltese; SunDawn &maltese;   (contact)   13:11, 28 November 2023 (UTC)

Comment on content, not on contributors
Hi, please read and respect WP:TPG. Comment on content, not on contributors. If you think that I was canvassing (at Talk:Ukraine on Fire) or hounding a fellow editor (at User_talk:Soupsnake) or what else you wrote about me, you should discuss that at ANI. Content discussions usually profit from focussing on - guess what - content. Rsk6400 (talk) 17:19, 28 November 2023 (UTC)


 * Not really, you wish to follow guidelines at one article but not at another when it does not suit you. You did not explain why we should follow it now all of a sudden when it is convenient for you. Nor does this give you the right to delete the comment. If you use your user page to try to convince everyone that your POV does not negatively affect your editing, it is not a good sign. Mellk (talk) 02:08, 29 November 2023 (UTC)

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ANI Notice
There is currently a discussion at Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you. I mentioned your name at Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents, this is the only reason I am leaving this message. Greetings from Los Angeles,  // Timothy :: talk  15:39, 18 December 2023 (UTC)

Help rv move
The page Grand Prince of Kyiv needs moved back to it original title Grand Prince of Kiev, I'm not sure how to undo this and thought you might be able to help.  // Timothy :: talk  15:42, 18 December 2023 (UTC)


 * ✅. Mellk (talk) 15:55, 18 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks :)  // Timothy :: talk  16:50, 18 December 2023 (UTC)

Contentious topic reminder
Hi. I just wanted to see why you left this message on my talk page? Thank you. MunsterManicotti5092 (talk) 23:56, 29 December 2023 (UTC)


 * The alert contains all the information you need. If you have any other questions, let me know. Thanks. Mellk (talk) 23:58, 29 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you and I apologize if my tone was seemingly harsh. I think we should consolidate sources to build a more nuanced view of this article. I do not have access to Russian language articles on the subject. If you would like, maybe you could add some of these to the article and expand upon certain details? Thank you and hope your day is going well. MunsterManicotti5092 (talk) 00:04, 30 December 2023 (UTC)
 * No need to apologize. Which article are you referring to? Mellk (talk) 00:08, 30 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Vladimir Karelin I think it would be good to have some more information on him, especially concerning his role in the "All–Russian Central Executive Committee", as well as leading and organizing the uprising of the Left Socialist Revolutionaries. He seemed to have a pretty influential role in the early history of the Soviet Union, and more context/details would be greatly appreciated here. MunsterManicotti5092 (talk) 00:15, 30 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Sure, I will take a look. Mellk (talk) 04:39, 30 December 2023 (UTC)

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&maltese; SunDawn &maltese;   (contact)   10:23, 4 January 2024 (UTC)

Russian vs Russian Empire
Hi, I noticed you manually reverted a bunch of changes to various Russian biographies from eg "a revolutionary in the Russian Empire" to "a Russian revolutionary". These changes have been ongoing for ages as that editor works their way through various biography categories. There will be hundreds and hundreds more to change back. Are you aware of any consensus on this topic at all? I asked WP:RUSSIA about this months ago and received no reply. I find the "Russian Empire" constructions extremely odd (and maybe even potentially offensive, such as when dealing with revolutionaries in particular), but I'm not a Russia expert. -- asilvering (talk) 01:13, 3 January 2024 (UTC)


 * I mentioned this to Johnpacklambert who was making those changes and I think he is not going to make those changes to the lead anymore. Probably to deal with those new categories such as Category:Revolutionaries from the Russian Empire this will need to be discussed at WP:CfD. A number of them have been deleted. But there is no consensus to change the wording of all figures to something like "Russian Empire revolutionary", which I do not think is even grammatically correct. Mellk (talk) 07:45, 3 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Do you recall which categories have been deleted? I'd like to have a look at the CfD discussions. I don't spend much time there so I'm not particularly familiar with how discussions go at CfD. I do think "Revolutionaries from the Russian Empire" is a real problem if we're also removing "Russian revolutionary", since, for example, there will be loads of Polish revolutionaries who were "from the Russian Empire" but having that category without "Polish revolutionary" would be pretty evidently absurd. I expect there are many people who would argue that they shouldn't even be in "from the Russian Empire" at all. That's true for all kinds of people from the Russian Empire but especially problematic for various nationalist figures. -- asilvering (talk) 23:10, 3 January 2024 (UTC)
 * I remember Category:Grand dukes from the Russian Empire was merged into Category:Grand dukes of Russia but I can't think of any other specific examples at the moment. Category:Russian revolutionaries is the parent but it is a bit all over the place, in my opinion. Mellk (talk) 00:50, 4 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Ok you win, that is an example that is even funnier than "revolutionaries from the Russian Empire". -- asilvering (talk) 07:40, 4 January 2024 (UTC)
 * I think the logic was that the "Russian" categories could only be used for post-1991, but of course that makes no sense and I do not think that anyone else agreed with this. The Russian Empire categories were already subcats of the Russian categories anyway. Mellk (talk) 12:17, 6 January 2024 (UTC)
 * I wonder if it had something to do with when categories like "American people" became "People from the United States of America". I'll just start CfDing these when I come across them, since there doesn't appear to be specific consensus for them. -- asilvering (talk) 18:14, 6 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Alright, I put up Revolutionaries from the Russian Empire at CfD. Link here, in case you'd like to weigh in or are curious about how it goes: . -- asilvering (talk) 02:34, 7 January 2024 (UTC)
 * I gave this some thought and I think you have already covered everything. First, the state is non-defining (also many were active before and after 1917) and second, it is already a subcat of Category:Russian revolutionaries (which itself is not limited to ethnicity). If someone is not defined as "Russian", they should be put in the other category. Regards. Mellk (talk) 05:09, 20 January 2024 (UTC)