User talk:Meowy

A kitten for you!
Indeed, good to see you back! Sardur (talk) 22:35, 11 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks all. Meows and Purrs. :) Meowy 23:24, 11 February 2012 (UTC)

Welcome back!
I almost forgot that you've been gone for almost all this time :p

Also, can you archive this talk one of these days whenever you get the chance? :)--Marshal Bagramyan (talk) 07:40, 12 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Archived it :) Meowy 23:40, 14 February 2012 (UTC)

Nedim Ardoğa (talk) 18:19, 19 February 2012 (UTC)

AE report filed by User:Grandmaster
User:Grandmaster has filed an AE report on Nagorno-Karabakh trying to limit participation in the article. Take a look as a user active on the article’s talk pages. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#Nagorno-Karabakh_article Dehr (talk) 16:52, 27 February 2012 (UTC)

Kind of antagonistic
We never even met each other and already you acting as if I am some sort of enemy, accusing me of a variety of violations and such. I am just a regular Wikipedia user, not some sort of conspirator. Sopher99 (talk) 22:55, 6 March 2012 (UTC)
 * It is nothing personal. I'm just astonished at the content of some of your article talk page and user talk page statements, and that you have got away with making them without any sanctions. I've been around a lot of articles that have generated heat, but I have NEVER seen a case of an editor POV-pushing in such an open and unabashed and sustained way. I suppose it is good that you are not being deceptive by trying to hide your lack of neutrality and impartiality (deceivers are generally not nice people) but it is not the correct attitude to have when editing an encyclopaedia article. Meowy 23:38, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

While I agree that I am intense when it come to editing, I can't say that I am POV pushing. I was just startled by a magnanimous push by some of the other editors to try get the article to completely conform with Assad's conspiracy theory. I subsequently gave stark objections. Sopher99 (talk) 23:51, 6 March 2012 (UTC)
 * I'm not going to cherry-pick your choicest comments (especially since I suspect you will like them) but they all show that there is a strong pov that you are pushing, over-the-top statements like "The Syrian government is a ludicrous bunch of Saddam Hussein figures, nothing more". Meowy 00:20, 7 March 2012 (UTC)


 * Thats my opinion that I was expressing ion a Talk page. I never altered wikipedia based of the Syrian government bearing the likeness of Saddam Hussein's. I have however altered the page based of the Syrian government being ludicrous (making farcical statements that they can't back up with evidence). And yes I am anti-Assad (and anti-gaddafi/khalifa/tantawi/mubarak/maliki/king abdullah/al-thani), but I don't let that get the better of my responsibility to be neutral. I do however address edits by other users that I see to unreasonably skewed in the Syrian government favor in higher proportions than I do with with other types of edits (talk pages, mistakes, refs, ect). I focus on the Syrian page more only the Syrian page receives the highest POV-pushers. The Bahraini page does not receive a high amount of POV pushers, because both the "the west" and "the east" agree that the Bahraini protesters are not a foreign conspiracy, but a genuine revolutionary movement met with brutal force by the government. What I am saying is I am just really ticked off by these conspiracy-pushers, and that drives me to an intensive response. Sopher99 (talk) 00:42, 7 March 2012 (UTC)
 * You know nothing at all about Syria. Your edits on Wikipedia that are connected to Syria begin and end with the "2011-2012 Syrian Uprising" article and its related fork articles. If you had any deep interest in and understanding about Syria you would have been editing other Syria-related articles and would have been doing it further back than 2011 - but you have done nothing like that. Probably you had never even heard of Syria until last year, but now, all whipped up with fake indignation fueled by whatever propaganda news channel you watch, you think you are an instant expert on Syria! Go back to watching Fox News and leave Wikipedia alone. Meowy 00:30, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

To be honest, Meowy, you, especially with your last statement, are acting in the way you accuse him of acting. I'm sure you wouldn't like it is someone said to you; "Go back to watching Press Tv and SANA!", would you? It's a violation of wikipedias rules on civility, to be honest. I would kindly ask to refrain. Moreover, I think Sopher is trying to stop the page from becoming completely pro-Assad. Many socks of certain blocked users (for POV-pushing, vandalism .etc.) constanly vandalise the pages relating to the Uprising. These socks always vandalise battle outcomes, delete information, and are a general nuisance. It's just the influx of quite a few mysterious users, who usually have made few or no edits outside the Syrian Uprising topic, and are new, have started to alter the NPOV to a pro-regime POV. Trying to stop this isn't a serious crime.Goltak (talk) 13:56, 11 March 2012 (UTC)
 * I think it might be time to take the issue to administrators, the single-issue editing aims of Sopher99, and his simplistic attitude to editing, do not contribute to a good article and are skewing it into an embarassing propaganda piece full of ugly POVs. Meowy  17:39, 11 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Well, that's you opinion I suppose. Although I'm not sure admin's will agree. I say this because as far as I know Sopher hasn't actually pushed his POV when editing. And I have been working on the Syrian Uprising project for some time now. Goltak (talk) 20:11, 11 March 2012 (UTC)

A polite request
I kindly request once that you remain civil at Talk:Eurovision Song Contest 2012; and yet you continue to post uncivil comments towards myself on there. Why? Wesley ☀  Mouse  20:31, 12 March 2012 (UTC)
 * What uncivil comments have I made towards you? Meowy 20:41, 12 March 2012 (UTC)
 * It may not appear uncivil, but the way you've over punctuated your comments in a "stomping feet to make a point" manner, is a form of incivility. Perhaps before you send a comment to a talk page, do a "show preview" thing, and re-read what you're about to send as if it was someone else sending it to yourself.  9 times out of 10, a person will notice their comments looking a little abrupt.  I use the show preview religiously, as it is the only way to know what I am about to send, before I send it.  Last thing you want is to send something, and only notice afterwards that it may have sounded irrational.   Wesley  ☀  Mouse  20:54, 12 March 2012 (UTC)
 * It honestly wasn't meant to be or to sound uncivil. The point of my post was that the proposed content would benefit by being brief and concise and to the point (by cutting out the trivia) - so my post was made deliberately brief and concise and to the point, indicating, with punctuation, what I think should go. If that did made it sound rather too abrasive and abrupt, then I apologise. Meowy 21:06, 12 March 2012 (UTC)
 * I think you should strike out the uncivil comment you made [here].  Wesley  ☀  Mouse  23:16, 12 March 2012 (UTC)
 * You said exactly the same thing to me! I am quoting your OWN WORDS. So, it is uncivil if I say it to you, but acceptable if you say it to me - and also say a lot of other uncivil things as well like claiming I am producing "false facts" and "What part of keep to NPOV are you struggling to grasp Meowy?". Meowy 23:25, 12 March 2012 (UTC)

Do I really need to repeat myself like a parrot? What I said was "I hate to say this, but you seriously need to read things carefully" in reference to a misinterpretation of a comment made by someone else. Nothing derogatory in my choice of words there whatsoever, and by no means are they uncivil. I've been down the uncivil route many a time, and know now that those words aren't what you are trying to imply. However, when you use the same few words and bold them too, then that is purposely directing insult towards another user. Check your manual of style my friend. Wesley ☀  Mouse  23:30, 12 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Wow! You know no shame, my friend. Meowy 23:40, 12 March 2012 (UTC)

And what do you mean by that statement? Explain yourself please! Wesley ☀  Mouse  23:46, 12 March 2012 (UTC)
 * I think that this conversation is now at an end. Meowy 23:53, 12 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Oh I 2012% agree. And I would appreciate it if you refrained from further interactions with myself; as I shall not want to be interacting with you from this moment forth.   Wesley  ☀  Mouse  00:03, 13 March 2012 (UTC)

Word choice
Here, you've made some rather extreme statements. In regards to your assertion that the article is fraudulent, I don't know enough to comment -- although I recommend that you should file for the article's deletion on this basis.

More troubling, though, is your description of someone as an "Armenian fascist". In modern society, to call someone a "fascist" is almost universally taken as an insult; the only exceptions are when you're referring to a historical figure who was part of an explicitly Fascistic organization, or who explicitly embraced Fascism. You don't know anything about this person (although I'm willing to grant that he probably is Armenian), so you can't, and shouldn't, call him "fascist".

I politely request that you remove that description from the page in question. DS (talk) 14:21, 18 March 2012 (UTC)
 * I do know something about that person, and have come into online contact with him on a number of occasions off-wikipedia. If I were to post some of the obnoxious racist comments that this individual has made on his Panoramio account regarding Turks (including comments placed against the very same photos used in that Wikipedia article) I am certain that a reasonable person would agree that the word "fascistic" is an accurate description of that person's views and attitudes. I did use a small "f", so I was not saying that he was a card carrying member of a Fascist organisation. The article deletion route is not really appropriate - there was an Akner monastery, it is just not at the place detailed in the article. It is unfortunate that I cannot prove the photographs used in the article have been stolen - the Flickr account that they were stolen from is no longer online. Meowy 02:15, 21 March 2012 (UTC)
 * I changed "fascist" to "racist"; also, the person I am calling racist is not a Wikipedia member. Meowy 20:37, 27 March 2012 (UTC)

Mother Armenia
Please feel free to revert/change my wordings as you see fit. I am not an expert on Armenian monuments; I was instead trying to go back through LordSako's edits and revert what appeared to be extreme POV. Buckshot06 (talk) 03:27, 21 March 2012 (UTC)
 * I had realised that after I had read more carefuly what I had reverted. At first I had actually thought (because of the insertion of the "heroes" word) your edit was part of an edit by LordSako or a supporter of his pov, hence my way-too-strongly-worded edit summary! Meowy 03:33, 21 March 2012 (UTC)

re Van cat
Responded. People in that part of the world sure have strange concerns. Who owns a cat breed? Preposterous. Can we not only care that they are cute+fluffy? I mean, just look at the adorable in the lead picture. This is perhaps the strangest piece of irredentism I've ever seen. --Golbez (talk) 20:21, 23 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks. There is nothing cuter or fluffier than a Van cat. Actually, I don't think there are substantial irredentist issues. For example, most of the claims in the "controversy" section have no sources: it is just some faulty OR from a few editors, and inflating the importance of a few rather silly articles and opinions. Meowy 02:25, 24 March 2012 (UTC)


 * Why, the expression of that cat in the infobox has to be the most preposterous looks I have ever seen on an animal - and that's why I must absolutely have one of these!--Marshal Bagramyan (talk) 06:05, 25 March 2012 (UTC)

Restricting access to users in Armenia-Azerbaijan
I would like to pick the brain of more experienced users about the ongoing exchange between [User:Grandmaster] and a couple of administrators. Grandmaster suggests to restrict access to some and potentially to all articles in Armenia-Azerbaijan by excluding new users. You can reply on my home page if you wish. Dehr (talk) 19:19, 28 March 2012 (UTC)

Western Azerbaijan
Some remarks about the concept. Divot (talk) 22:28, 1 April 2012 (UTC)

And some interesting sorces here. Divot (talk) 00:52, 2 April 2012 (UTC)

Talkback
 R a f y  talk 16:40, 4 April 2012 (UTC)

Something you should know
I have posted this to EdJohnston's talk page. I believe you should raise this issue concerning Nagorno Karabakh.

"And what of the issue I brought to your attention?. You are going to restrict "low edit" editors from Nagorno Karabakh, yet anon IPs can, and still, canvass for and cause disruptive editing in the Armenia-Azerbaijan articles! IF if ANY editors are to be restricted, then anon IPs should not be allowed to canvass for or edit in Armenia-Azerbaijan articles." --Kansas Bear (talk) 04:09, 6 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Admins get no satisfaction from blocking anon IPs - they can only satisfy their power-lust when they block, or otherwise abuse, people they can name. :) Meowy 12:26, 6 April 2012 (UTC)

Your HighBeam account is ready!
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 * Thank you. :) <span style="font-family:Trebuchet MS, verdana, sans serif; color:#0088BB;">Meowy 21:05, 13 April 2012 (UTC)

re tulips
Got an eye on it, but so far it's just got you two on it and no edit wars seem to be coming. --Golbez (talk) 13:59, 25 April 2012 (UTC)

Wikipedia Stories Project
Hi!

My name is Victor and I'm a storyteller with the Wikimedia Foundation, the non-profit organization that supports Wikipedia. I'm chronicling the inspiring stories of the Wikipedia community around the world, including those from readers, editors, and donors. Stories are absolutely essential for any non-profit to persuade people to support the cause, and we know the vast network of people who make and use Wikipedia have so much to share.

I'd very much like the opportunity to interview you to tell your story, with the possibility of using it in our materials, on our community websites, or as part of this year’s fundraiser to encourage others to support Wikipedia. Please let me know if you're inclined to take part in the Wikipedia Stories Project, or if you know anyone with whom I should speak.

Thank you for your time,

Victor Grigas

user:Victorgrigas

vgrigas@wikimedia.org

Victor Grigas (talk) 23:34, 25 April 2012 (UTC)


 * Hmmmm ..... someone has no idea what I really think about "the Wikipedia community" and "the cause"! <span style="font-family:Trebuchet MS, verdana, sans serif; color:#0088BB;">Meowy 18:58, 26 April 2012 (UTC)

Offensive edit summary?
Chill out. There was nothing offensive about my edit summary. Accusing an editor of making an offensive edit "without giving any evidence is a serious lapse of assuming good faith." My primary concern there was the word "seized", which, to my knowledge, was not your addition. --KoberTalk 04:40, 3 May 2012 (UTC)
 * An edit that removed most of my edit and that had an aggressive "mind NPOV please" as its summary sounded offensive and seemed obviously directed at me, but I will accept that it was unintended. As for that "seized", yes, I did not place it there, but you have no source indicating how this former Catholic church was obtained by the Georgian Church; whether it was legally transferred rather than simply seized. <span style="font-family:Trebuchet MS, verdana, sans serif; color:#0088BB;">Meowy 02:36, 4 May 2012 (UTC)

Problems with Template:History of Georgia
Hi! I'm writing to you as you seem to have helped resolving a recent conflict at Georgian Orthodox Church, and I am in a bit of a conflict with User:GeorgianJorjadze, who was part of that affair, over this template. I would greatly appreciate it if you, along with other users, could come have a look at it.

I initiated a discussion there on the talk page before changing the actual template, and started implementing the changes only after getting feedback from the other interested participant. I feel some changes are objectively needed to bring this template to the standards present in other similar ones, and have explained them in more and more detail as the discussion progressed, while GeorgianJorjadze mostly stated his preference for the old version. He's reverted any attempt I, and another unrelated contributer, have made at changing the template. Confronted with particular problems, he fixed them partially on his own rather than trying to work out a compromise version including some of my changes, as I did repeatedly with his own. After his last revert, instead of answering my arguments for the changes, he went to ask an admin to protect the template on the grounds that I am edit warring (User_talk:Wifione). I don't accuse him of edit warring, rather of poor ability to negociate compromises and admit he is not the only editor with rights on that template. For information, the version as it stands is his (he last reverted it to how it was before the discussion started, removing also the changes he had made), you can find my last attempts in the article history (last one is http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template:History_of_Georgia&oldid=491463391). I've exposed on the talk page reasons for all of them, last one is the most detailed. I would also appreciate if you (and other editors) could comment on a possible change of image (from the old map now used to the georgian coat of arms), for the sake of consistency with similar templates, and the inclusion or not of dates (I proposed a version with, but am rather neutral on the subject). In any case, I won't edit that template again until other, less partial, users, come and give their opinion on the matter. Thanks a lot!--Susuman77 (talk) 22:09, 8 May 2012 (UTC)

Come on
Meowy, please consider redacting this comment by striking it through or whatever. Removing it would have been fine but it's already been responded to; better would have been to not have said it all. If it's not a personal attack (and some may well think it is), it certainly isn't very sensitive, and thus it is completely unhelpful. What's the point in hurting someone's feelings? I thought you'd be more careful in your remarks to other editors. Drmies (talk) 15:05, 14 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I think what I wrote is justifiable so I don't want to strike it out. Wikipedia is not a support group or social media or chat room. We are all here firstly as "editors", not "friends". Wesley went around the talk pages of just about everyone he has been in contact with here mentioning the death of his mother, and went round them again seeing what replies he got. For Wikipedia specifically, I think this is an off-topic use of talk pages, (and in a broader context I personally feel it is a trivialising way of dealing with a death - why should one want such an amount of sympathy from complete strangers). Expressing disaproval of someone's actions is not a personal attack, and I was not posting it on Wesley's talk page. Nor am I going to be saying anything more about this, so I would like the issue to be closed. If it is OK with you I'll delete this section shortly. <span style="font-family:Trebuchet MS, verdana, sans serif; color:#0088BB;">Meowy 15:45, 14 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Well, whatever Wesley's conduct or mode of coping and the merits thereof, it's kind of cold to blast him for it. His comments caused no disruption--expressions of sympathy do not interfere with normal editing--but yours obviously did. It's part of getting along, and it's one of the (perhaps few) cases where if you can't say anything nice it's best to say nothing. But I'll leave this be. As I mentioned elsewhere, I'm not much of a civility blocker, though my sympathy here is not with you. Close and delete if you will, though archiving is always better. Drmies (talk) 17:38, 14 May 2012 (UTC)
 * You are probably right in that it was all pointless and unhelpful. I was letting my personal opinions make more out of his postings than the reality of the situation justified (and was doing it on another editor's talk page which was hardly fair on that other editor). <span style="font-family:Trebuchet MS, verdana, sans serif; color:#0088BB;">Meowy 16:22, 15 May 2012 (UTC)

Interesting
Thanks for the heads up. Fortunately, I appear to have completely missed the (rather tedious) excitement. Shocking that two editors would resist whitewashing attempts, eh? --Wikiboer (talk) 12:05, 16 May 2012 (UTC)

links
http://forum.vardanank.org/index.php?showtopic=135847

Warning
You have deleted one of my edites her, with edit summery: ''Reverting an edit made by a blocked sockpuppet account. Also, there seems no good reason for the deleted content to have been deleted.''. Next time you call me blocked sockpuppet I will notify you at [Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard|ANI]]. Regarding to seems no good reason for the deleted content.... If you check my edit before. The Democratic Republic of Georgia included Tiflis Governorate, Kutaisi Governorate, Zakatali Okrug, Batumi Oblast and Sukhumi Okrug and not only Tiflis Governorate. And to be even more precise both of the countries Democratic Republic of Georgia and the Democratic Republic of Armenia were part of Transcaucasian Democratic Federative Republic with Tbilisi the capital. Lern some Georgian history befor you edit articles regarding Georgia. Geagea (talk) 10:53, 24 June 2012 (UTC)
 * I apologise for mistakingly calling you a sockpuppet - I misread your name as the very similar-looking "Gergea1", who IS a blocked sockpuppet account. However, as for the substance of your edit - you did remove accurate information for no reason. The information deleted was correct and on-topic. The article concerns a war over who should control particular territory ("over the control of territories in Lori, Javakheti, and Borchalo districts"), territory that had been part of the Erivan and Tiflis Governorates of the Russian empire. You deleted the mention of those governorates. The article does not concern all of Georgia, so mention of Kutaisi Governorate, Batumi Oblast, etc, is off topic. Maybe you need to learn more about the geography of the Caucasus before you edit articles regarding Georgia. <span style="font-family:Trebuchet MS, verdana, sans serif; color:#0088BB;">Meowy  12:22, 24 June 2012 (UTC)

Fish
Thank u for alerting me of Parishan's unannounced - and now failed - fishing trip. I think misuse of SPs like that should be reported in AE. No? Sprutt (talk) 01:47, 28 June 2012 (UTC)
 * I think it would only be worth pursuing it if it could be shown that Parishan probably knew when making the allegation against you that all the accounts had already been found to be unconnected (for example, if Parishan had initiated any of those prior investigations or had posted comments in them). <span style="font-family:Trebuchet MS, verdana, sans serif; color:#0088BB;">Meowy  12:56, 29 June 2012 (UTC)

Blocked
As Grandmaster rightly pointed out, you are still under the AA topic restriction imposed in January 2010 by Sandstein, prohibiting you from making comments at AE threads that are not immediately related to you [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration/Armenia-Azerbaijan_2&diff=339982980&oldid=334144934]. Despite being reminded of this restriction [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement&diff=499963953&oldid=499962912], you chose not to self-revert but instead to continue the discussion [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement&diff=499969981&oldid=499966497]. I also find that the point you were making was in no way helpful, as it was a rather obvious attempt at wikilawyering over those warnings to the other user; as such it appears to be a continuation of the problematic earlier behaviour that caused the restriction to be imposed.

I have blocked you for a week. Fut.Perf. ☼ 22:47, 29 June 2012 (UTC)
 * For the record, I note that another administrator independently arrived at the same conclusion; apparently I beat him to this block by a minute [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement&diff=prev&oldid=499974786]. Fut.Perf. ☼ 23:06, 29 June 2012 (UTC)

Khandzta
Thanks a lot for your help on Khandzta! I created the article mostly from the Georgian one, as it has FA status there. However, I can easily believe that this article relies mostly on local sources, etc. Opiza has its own article there ; picture looks like it's totally ruined. I looked up on Google Earth the geolocalisation given there, found only a turkish village; wikimapia, when looking for Opiza, gives another village much closer to Khandzta/Porta. I'd like to create an Opiza article, but further information seems necessary. I think I'll wait until I have access to some library; that book looks like the most helpful as far as I can tell:. If you know of any other good source, please let me know. I hope you can still edit your talk page, despite your current situation (which, by the way, I deeply regret).--Susuman77 (talk) 09:43, 30 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Yes, I temporarily forgot the degree of scummyness that administrators can attain, and about the thinness of their skins and their ability to hold a grudge. The name of the blocking administrator doesn't surprise me - it will be a response for daring to post this: Seems that I can post here though. <span style="font-family:Trebuchet MS, verdana, sans serif; color:#0088BB;">Meowy  14:39, 30 June 2012 (UTC)
 * About Opiza, I'm embarrassed to say I mixed the names of the two up. I thought Porta was Opiza, and Opiza Porta! I've visited Porta (about 10 years ago - and during a storm that washed away the medieval trail that ran from the valley floor up to the monastery). Opiza was mostly intact in the 1960s (see Thierry's "Notes D'Un Nouveau Voyage en Georgie Turque" article in Bedi Kartlisa of 1968. There is info about Porta in it also, and the content is summarised on page 22 in volume 2 of Sinclair's "Eastern Turkey an Architectural and Archaeological Survey"). Opiza looked very similar to the Porta church. I remember reading somewhere that the drum and dome was blown up by some local Turkish fanatics in the 1970s - but I can't remember the source right now. The 1999 Turkish book Artvin'deki Mimari Esserler by Osma Aytekin says Opiza is in Bağcılar Koyu. It's got a lot of information on Opiza (and Porta) but is in Turkish and my Turkish isn't good enough to translate it properly (but is seems to be using "Monuments de Tao-Klardjetie" by V Berizde, Tbilisi 1981, as its source). It has a drawing of the monastery's church from the 1900s showing it intact. The drawing will be out of copyright so if you make the Opiza article it could be added to it. I was also intending to create an Opiza article, but 7 days from now I'll be away travelling for a month. <span style="font-family:Trebuchet MS, verdana, sans serif; color:#0088BB;">Meowy 14:45, 30 June 2012 (UTC)
 * For Opiza, using google earth - it is at 41°13'31.34"N, 42° 2'10.83"E. For Porta, it does not actually lie in Pirnali village, that is just the nearest village to it. Porta is actually very close to Opiza, it is here: 41°14'16.64"N  42° 4'25.11"E (so the Wikipedia co-ordinates are wrong). <span style="font-family:Trebuchet MS, verdana, sans serif; color:#0088BB;">Meowy  15:26, 30 June 2012 (UTC)
 * The recent damage to the Porta dome is shown clearly here: http://static.panoramio.com/photos/1920x1280/59202764.jpg. The top of the inner face of the dome was intact when I saw it. So the "Most of the cupola of the church collapsed in 2007" text should probably be reworded to say "the inner face of the dome and part of the drum collapsed in 2007". <span style="font-family:Trebuchet MS, verdana, sans serif; color:#0088BB;">Meowy 15:56, 30 June 2012 (UTC)

Pussy Riot
I am confused - you have deleted large amounts of text from the Pussy Riot talk page but the guidelines for talk pages state that you should not delete other peoples' posts?
 * Guidelines for talk page content do not actually state what you are saying. See []. The guidelines say that talk page content should be directed towards content issues and content creation - the post I removed did not have that aim - they were dead-ended soapboxing opinion pieces. In addition, one of the deleted postings had vary serious blp issues. Normally there is no great harm in a talk page having a few off-topic postings (and it often makes them interesting to read) but that article's talk page is getting out of control and legitimate discussion is being swamped out. <span style="font-family:Trebuchet MS, verdana, sans serif; color:#0088BB;">Meowy 16:59, 18 August 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for your reply. My experience on WP to date is that IP users or new users removing pov material or soapboxing get stamped on quickly. 86.162.18.241 (talk) 17:28, 18 August 2012 (UTC)

Re:"Following" your contributions
You are welcome to follow my contributions as closely as you wish. Hopefully it will never become what had formerly been known as WP:STALKING. As for the citation tags, they are benign and help improve the content. You are very much mistaken if you think that "a good editor does not initiate the removal of truthful content even if that content is not fully cited". I'm with Jimmy Wales on this: unsourced material should be removed "aggressively". Note that I did not remove anything, but just tagged the unsourced text in line with the Wikipedia policy. My action should not offend anyone unless there are not some hidden grudges towards me or an inherent bias on the topics I edit. Please follow the fundamental principles of Wikipedia in the future. Thanks, --KoberTalk 15:03, 20 August 2012 (UTC)
 * You have either forgotten (or are not aware) that I consider Wikipedia to be an intrinsically evil concept and a malevolent entity, a cancer on truth and on legitimate academic studies. Its concept of verifiability is the core of its evil. I am not here because I want to contribute to Wikipedia - I am here because I oppose everything Wikipedia stands for. A good writer does not bury truth because suitable sources are not immediately to hand, a good writer does not promote lies simply because sources exist that present those lies as if they were truth. But I recognise that few people have such high moral standards - or the courage or the knowledge to carry through with them. I have been trying to follow those high standards in whatever edits I make here, and I had hoped that you (with your opposition to the worst aspects of Georgian pov editors) were similarly inclined.
 * But now you seem to be doing the job of those same (banned or blocked) pov editors. <span style="font-family:Trebuchet MS, verdana, sans serif; color:#0088BB;">Meowy 15:20, 20 August 2012 (UTC)
 * I feel I have to withdraw the above comment because certain editors have (assuming that good faith is behind their motives) completely misunderstood its meaning and its context. It was meant to be a satirical reply to an editor professing to understand the "fundamental principles of Wikipedia" and "what Jimmy wants" <span style="font-family:Trebuchet MS, verdana, sans serif; color:#0088BB;">Meowy 12:52, 28 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Wow. If your admission is not supposed to be a joke and you are not really here to build Wikipedia, I don't think we can ever arrive at a consensus on this particular matter. I don't claim to be what you refer to as a "good writer". I'm wasting my time and energy on this project because I find many (but not all) of its policies acceptable. If you are not able to find suitable sources for what you consider to be "the truth", I'm afraid you will never win the war you have declared on Wikipedia. And please refrain from personal attacks. I'm not doing anyone's job here. That's probably why I've never given any serious blocks and bans in contrast to many of those editors and yourself, by the way. Requesting a citation tag does not amount to POV editing. Deal with this. --KoberTalk 15:48, 20 August 2012 (UTC)
 * There you go - you are only what I thought you were (which is a disapointment, but not an unexpected one). :( I will deal with it by giving your edits close scrutiny for content and for aims. <span style="font-family:Trebuchet MS, verdana, sans serif; color:#0088BB;">Meowy 15:56, 20 August 2012 (UTC)
 * This hostile attitude does not help your cause. But I don't really care. --KoberTalk 16:03, 20 August 2012 (UTC)
 * If you had wanted to go on a fact tagging spree to remove unsourced material there were plenty of articles that have quantities of contentious content without citations. However, you added them to an article that had been stable since attacks by a series of pov editors and sockpuppet accounts had stopped (thanks to blocks and bans), and you tagged the very same content that those pov editors and sockpuppet accounts had been trying to remove. That fact does not help your reputation. <span style="font-family:Trebuchet MS, verdana, sans serif; color:#0088BB;">Meowy 16:35, 20 August 2012 (UTC)

Armenian Pantheon of Tbilisi
Thank you for the PDF link. That is a great book, and I had been looking to get my own copy, but was having a hard time. I had found it only at a local library... Now, I should mention that most of the churches in that book I have also photographed during my last summer (2011) trip to Tbilisi. I haven't had the time to upload them. Please let me know if there are any pressing photographs that you may need. Thanks. Serouj (talk) 07:32, 21 August 2012 (UTC)

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Anders Behring Breivik
Please don't remove the word "terrorist" from the article. Such a designation is not a partisan claim; a court has found him guilty of both murder and terrorism. (I won't object to some rephrasing, but this fact definitely belongs in the article.) - Mike Rosoft (talk) 19:56, 27 August 2012 (UTC)
 * With regards to why I had warned you on your talk page instead of using the article talk page: you are the only one who insists on the removal of the word "terrorist" (without consensus). Revert warring is frowned upon on Wikipedia. - Mike Rosoft (talk) 21:07, 27 August 2012 (UTC)


 * So you admit it was a threat, as I suspected. And now you continue the threat with words like "without consensus". Consensus is not needed to remove content for BLP reasons, especially where the content breaks Wikipedia guidelines. <span style="font-family:Trebuchet MS, verdana, sans serif; color:#0088BB;">Meowy 21:27, 27 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Allow me to be honest, Meowy. If a man was convicted of terorism, he can be called a terrorist. Period, end of story. There is no BLP violation involved, nor is it reasonable for anyone to claim otherwise. There is no violation of policy or guidelines in taking the word of a court. Claiming otherwise could be seen as a violation of WP:DE, almost fanatically insisting otherwise could reasonably be seen as also violationg WP:TE. John Carter (talk) 14:54, 28 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Meowy, I agree with John Carter. Consensus here is not with you. Drmies (talk) 15:10, 28 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Yes, someone can be called a terrorist - but only if there is inline citation revealing who or what is calling that person a terrorist, and it needs to be worded in a neutral way, something like "convicted of terrorist offenses". That was lacking in the article, (a blp to boot), a situation that went against content guidelines. I don't think consensus was needed to correct such an error. Those wanting the word retained could easily have made the article fit the content guidelines. Instead they chose to throw insults. "Terrorist" is always pov - there are many regimes whose laws have their own interpretation of the term. But this stuff has been discussed in countless articles before. There is nothing to make the Breivik article an exception to the rule, and there is nothing to excuse gross incivility on a talk page directed at an editor for simply having pointed out that fact. <span style="font-family:Trebuchet MS, verdana, sans serif; color:#0088BB;">Meowy 15:36, 28 August 2012 (UTC)

Blocked
You have been blocked indefinitely from editing for a long history of disruptive editing and most notably for deliberately provoking incivility by other editors at the article Anders Behring Breivik, and because you don't even want to contribute in a constructive way to Wikipedia.. If you think there are good reasons why you should be unblocked, you may appeal this block by adding below this notice the text, but you should read the guide to appealing blocks first. De728631 (talk) 21:38, 27 August 2012 (UTC)

I first came to this page because I had marked it several years ago and saw it on my watchlist. Honestly, Meowy, the statement linked to demonstrates not only contempt for a group of people with which you have chosen of your own free will to involve yourself, but a degree of arrogance, self-righteousness, disregard for objectivity, and (I feel justified in saying) delusion that there is very little chance that I can imagine, even if you do request an unblock, that it is likely anyone will do so without significant limitations on your ability to edit. I would not myself necessarily object to you making such a request, however, or necessarily inhibit it being acted upon.

I do however believe that, if you choose not to request an unblock, that it would be basically useless for you to try to come back under another name. Given your statements above, I tend to think that you would be very easy to discover and identify, and it would hardly serve your own cause, or your own opinions of yourself, if you were to actively act in violation of what most people would consider fairly reasonable conduct guidelines. Even the most fanatical people tend to realize that, when they are the ones acting in violation of generally fair rules, that they have a difficult time justifying their actions, even to themselves. John Carter (talk) 22:52, 27 August 2012 (UTC)
 * J.C. - see above for my reply about that supposed "statement". <span style="font-family:Trebuchet MS, verdana, sans serif; color:#0088BB;">Meowy 03:54, 28 August 2012 (UTC)


 * I think if De728631 could be construed as involved, it should be ignored per WP:IAR. The block was inevitable since the aims of Meowy appear diametrically opposed to the aims of wikipedia (see Jimbo's page User_talk:Jimbo_Wales, the ANI thread etc). IRWolfie- (talk) 12:10, 28 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Please explain how you think trying to make a Wikipedia article follow Wikipedia guidelines is opposing the aims of Wikipedia? You link to a series of posts that just repeat the same displays of gross incivility and unsubstantiated bad-faith and that ignore everything in the unblock appeal. You yourself do it with your obnoxious "Arguing that the murder of 69 people wasn't an atrocity is extreme" comment. Nowhere did my words argue that or even vaguely suggest that. Why don't you go to talk page of User:DoctorKubla and accuse him of "Arguing that the murder of 69 people wasn't an atrocity" for his "I'm not involved in this conflict, just want to point out that "atrocity" does strike me as a POV term" comment ? DoctorKubla says my "comments on the Anders Breivik talk page were all focused on the use of the term in the article, not in general". If you disagree with that assesment then post some difs to prove it. You will not because you cannot. <span style="font-family:Trebuchet MS, verdana, sans serif; color:#0088BB;">Meowy  12:15, 28 August 2012 (UTC)
 * You claim here: that calling it an atrocity isn't neutral, that calling his ideology a Militant ideology isn't neutral, and in a section heading you added the rhetorical question that the article is a propaganda article. Your statement "Why is there no content at all about the political and social context of the events" suggests you wish to provide some justification for what was done. It is self evident that you are a civilly pushing a point of view which is opposed to the principles of wikipedia (as you have previous said, you oppose wikipedia). IRWolfie- (talk) 14:20, 28 August 2012 (UTC)
 * IRWolfie, are you really trying to justify an indef-block based on your interpretation of Meowy's words, extrapolating what it is he wants? No, what you claim is self-evident is not self-evident at all, and you're whistling dixie, or blowing hot air, whichever one you like. There is an editorial dispute here, and you're using OR to pull out straw men. You may disagree with Meowy's opinion, sure, but this psychoanalysis is unwarranted. For what it's worth, I believe there are enough sources to warrant "terrorist" in this case, and "militant ideology" as well. But "atrocity" is hardly necessary, and I can see Meowy's problem with that. Now, that a whole bunch of editors want to suggest that Meowy is an apologist for right-wing fascism, or Illinois nazism, or whatever else you want to throw at him--what on earth could be the point of that? Or its legitimacy? Don't answer that. Drmies (talk) 14:30, 28 August 2012 (UTC)
 * How do you interpret labelling a section "Propaganda article?" in good faith? IRWolfie- (talk) 14:34, 28 August 2012 (UTC)
 * At the risk of being painted immediately as an Illinois nazi, I think "propaganda" has a wider use and meaning than some may think. But again, so what if he calls the article "propaganda"? And so what if he's clearly wrong? All you have to do is find a consensus that he's wrong--how hard can that be? If push comes to shove, start an RfC, on the article and on the user! Drmies (talk) 14:42, 28 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Meowy, I think I suggested to you before that toning down the rhetoric would help rather than hurt your case. I understand you're frustrated, but I'm of the "pragmatism, not idealism" school, realizing fully well that when those words are spoken on OK Computer they are spoken in satire. Think about what kind of an unblock request you can make that will satisfy both the patrolling admins here (who have invested in WP in a way that makes them abhor, almost instinctively, comments about Wales and kangaroos, and Wikipedia and cancer) and your own moral standards. The purpose should not be righteousness but returning to editing within the parameters set by the community--otherwise an unblock request is just grandstanding. I agree with you that some of the community's parameters are faulty or in need of tweaking and have placed a note on ANI to that regard. I do not completely agree with Dennis's decline, but he's an admin too, and I respect him, and I'm not going to go against him without some input from the community. FWIW, I totally disagree with the indefinite block but, again, I'm a total sheep and won't baaa too loudly right now. I hope to sway the community a bit. In the meantime, play it cool and consider what it is you want, and how you could help create a return to Wikipedia. Drmies (talk) 14:26, 28 August 2012 (UTC)
 * "....realizing fully well that when those words are spoken on OK Computer they are spoken in satire." I'll go back musically a few years more, and say "now I know how Joan of Ark felt". <span style="font-family:Trebuchet MS, verdana, sans serif; color:#0088BB;">Meowy 16:00, 28 August 2012 (UTC)
 * I really have no idea what words will satisfy an appeal. I don't see anything objectionable or out of the ordinary in any edits I made to the Breivik article, and can't see how any of them could be construed as "deliberately provoking incivility by other editors". So even if I wanted to pretend a "such and such thing I did was wrong and I won't do it again" appeal, I couldn't - because I honestly don't see anything here that I could even pretend was wrong. Denis has not explained why it "could be argued" that my actions [on the Breivik page] were "intentionally provacative" and he did not address most of the points I made in the appeal. That rhetorical and ironic comment made to Kober was made - but I have withdrawn it and I tried to explain its content. But Dennis's words now seem to suggest that the real sin in it was that it was a hostile comment directed at Kober, (not anything to do with its content regarding Wikipedia). If Kober did not feel the hostility in it merited a complaint at the time, how can it now be used at a later date to justify a permanent ban? What else can I do? I can give a sincere appology to Kober for the comment (he is actually an editor I generally think highly of - one of the few who edit Georgia-related articles with sincerity and knowledge - and that comment came out of disapointment at some edits he made, and not from personal hostility). I can agree that any future talk page comments I make on my talk page (or anyone elses) will follow the same standards as if it was on an article page, and I can agree to always making them on-topic and concerning content issues, and without any humour that might be misinterpreted. But that's about it. And I doubt that is enough. <span style="font-family:Trebuchet MS, verdana, sans serif; color:#0088BB;">Meowy 15:19, 28 August 2012 (UTC)
 * I saw you struck those remarks. That's a good idea. You have problems with "terrorist", "atrocity", etc--that's fine, I can't fault you for bringing it up, and as you may have noticed I don't think those constitute trolling (but I'm in a small community there--only Tarc, I think, agreed with me). What you can do is state that you will concede that your interpretation of the BLP policy (NPOV, etc) is overridden by a clear consensus on a talk page. And let me say immediately that I understand that this (if you ever thought you would drop your concern) was made very difficult by the extreme and unacceptable hostility displayed right there, and that a block was issued so quickly that tempers never got to cool down. But a bunch of the comments on ANI (those that aren't knee-jerk reactions) indicate that sticks must be dropped and reasonable consensus must prevail, even if you disagree that the consensus is reasonable. I've argued elsewhere that things were done too hasty (the block, especially), but that works both ways. People get rubbed the wrong way, rightly or wrongly, by your tone, and you tend to be quick on the draw. I'm not likely to block or to take immediate offense, but you have to live with the fact that some do. Mind you, I'm not trying to apologize for Andy or Ian--those responses were inexcusable in my book. I hope some of this makes sense. I'm going to bow out for a while, since there's other work to do (like, a job). For those who are watching: please do note that the offending diff was struck, that it was stated to have been a hasty remark that wasn't to be taken so seriously. Dennis, I hope that helps. Drmies (talk) 15:34, 28 August 2012 (UTC)
 * I'm not the one you have to convince, it is the many, many others. You know me well enough to know I don't take offense if someone reverts me, even if I disagree with it.  I'm more tolerant of that kind of stuff than the average bear.  You also know me well enough that my logic nor words can't be twisted around so easily, and that I wouldn't have declined unless I felt that was the appropriate response after careful deliberation.  While I will remain open minded, I'm not currently convinced that unblocking is in the best interest of Wikipedia at this time.  It was not a drive by decline, nor prompted or requested by anyone, and I chose to consider it because it has sat for almost 10 hours with no one willing to consider the issue.  If you choose to unblock him, I am not going to labor the issue with you personally, our friendship is certainly stronger than that, but others may not be so forgiving unless there is a clear path forward.  In my opinion, there is trollish behavior involved, crafty but subtle.  As always, anyone is free to discount or ignore my opinions if they so choose, without fear of reprisal.  Dennis Brown -  2&cent;    &copy;   Join WER 17:22, 28 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Dennis, you did not explained why you think it "could be argued" that my actions [on the Breivik page] were "intentionally provocative". How can pointing out in an appropriate way a legitimate issue, one that has been raised on many other pages, be characterised as "deliberately provoking incivility by other editors"? How can I counter an interpretation of something, and explain that the interpretation is wrong, if nobody will tell me what they think was wrong with the content of my edits. As you said, there was no incivility in anything I posted, so what was it in them that was "deliberately provoking incivility"? I had no prior contact with any of the editors involved in that article - so how could I even know about any of them to want to "deliberately provoke" them? <span style="font-family:Trebuchet MS, verdana, sans serif; color:#0088BB;">Meowy 18:44, 28 August 2012 (UTC)


 * First, I want to say not all of us have seen the picture of an admin screwing a kangaroo, and I sincerely hope it isn't one of me. While I can and do see how it might have been meant as "humor," maybe a sense of humor of that form is not suitable anywhere on this site, including user talk pages? I used to tell really sick jokes in high school whose punch lines included "baby on a meathook" and "baby a la blender," and tell them rather often actually, but have somehow managed to avoid mentioning them here ever before. And I think most people would agree that is a good thing for me to have avoided mentioning here. And, yeah, getting people boarding an international flight to refer to "that bomb" of a movie is funny too, but really not a nice thing to do at an airline terminal. If that was intended as humor, maybe you might try in the future to use more "vanilla" jokes. John Carter (talk) 16:41, 28 August 2012 (UTC)
 * John Carter, do you know how close I just came to indeffing you for those punchlines? (Spoke the father.) Ha, who had that template, a warning for a not-funny joke? Maybe it was Bongomatic. Dennis, I know you carefully deliberated and all that, and I said "not completely agree"--not "totally disagree". Who knows, we may have that beer one day, but don't hold it against me if I toast Meowy, and a couple of others along the way. Meowy, I don't think my advocacy is having much effect. I may not be a good advocate, I wish I were better at it. Drmies (talk) 18:04, 28 August 2012 (UTC)


 * Wow, if had ever been tagged with one of those for every bad joke I made, my archives would be a sea of salmon. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 18:19, 28 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Drmies, I think your advocacy have been quite fine. Your words do you credit and I appreciate them. <span style="font-family:Trebuchet MS, verdana, sans serif; color:#0088BB;">Meowy 19:02, 28 August 2012 (UTC)

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