User talk:Mets501/Archive 17

Help with user boxes
Hi Mets. First of all, make your exams your first priority! This can wait. I appreciate very much the way you set up my user page and need some help. When you're ready, leave a note on my talk page. -- Fyslee/talk 17:25, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

Ya que lo escribiste...
Cómo estás practicando para el AP en español, permíteme corregirte un par de cosas en esta página. En lugar de que sea
 * Usted puede utilizar español en esta página, pero solamente si es necesario, porque no soy fluido en español y ésta es la Wikipedia inglés.

Debería ser:
 * Usted puede utilizar español en esta página, pero solamente si es necesario, porque no soy fluyente en español y ésta es la Wikipedia en inglés.

La primera corrección es porque "fluido" se pruede traducir como "fluid", pero quieres decir "fluent"; la segunda corrección es que "Wikipedia inglés" no es una manera adecuada de escribir "English Wikipedia". Para ver por qué, escribe esa frase remplazando el texto con "Wikipedia in English"&mdash;es una manera completamente correcta de escribir la oración. Sin embargo, "Wikipedia English" no lo es, ni en inglés, ni en castellano.

¡Buena suerte en tus exámenes! Tito xd (?!? - cool stuff) 08:27, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

Article Exclusion: List of Fumblerules
Hiya,

Can you please exclude List of Fumblerules from your bot's search list? The article contains deliberate examples of incorrect grammar which your bot keeps 'correcting'.

Thanks,

--Veratien 12:56, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

Signpost updated for April 9th, 2007.
Special note to spamlist users: Apologies for the formatting issues in previous issues. This only recently became a problem due to a change in HTML Tidy; however, I am to blame on this issue. Sorry, and all messages from this one forward should be fine (I hope!) -Ral315

You are receiving this message because you have signed up for the Signpost spamlist. If you wish to stop receiving these messages, simply remove your name from the list. Ralbot 08:11, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

Evidence of bot run?
Hi there. I've been looking at Bots/Requests for approval/MetsBot 8, at your AWB account's contributions, and at the categories, as I was trying to check whether the request had been carried out, and I can't find any evidence that the animal categories in questions ever were in the "human" part of the death/birth by year category tree. Strange. Am I missing something? Carcharoth 17:59, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
 * It turned out that the categories were added by way of a template. It didn't need a bot at all! Unfortunately both Mets and I, 2 experienced users, failed to notice this before the bot application was made! --kingboyk 18:01, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Ah. I should have thought of that as well! Which template was it? Carcharoth 18:02, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Found it! Carcharoth 18:05, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

Donations to AWB
Hi Mets, Can you change your donation options for the AWB project here?

Thinking if anyone wants to donate, it can be passed onto the wikimedia foundation

Cheers

Reedy Boy 20:28, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

Tests
Good luck on your tests. I remember 'em. Studying is awful, but once you're finished its so nice and relaxing. :-) Whenever you get back, there is a >200 backlog in Category:Wikipedia GUS userboxes.  --Iamunknown 20:07, 13 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Special:Contributions/MetsBot. 71.183.106.162 21:41, 13 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks. BTW, would it be possible to design a generalized template for userbox migration from Template:User X --> Wikipedia:WikiProject Y?  I don't know what would be necessary for the bot.  I found a significant number of those (mostly from the Anime/Manga and Scouting WikiProjects) when I went through all of the userboxen.  --Iamunknown 01:13, 14 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Sure. My bot can't parse that template yet, but if you design it, I can probably add functionality for it. 71.183.106.162 01:18, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

MetsBot
Could you please stop your bot from migrating links to userboxes on my talk page?   &mdash;Ashley Y 22:33, 13 April 2007 (UTC)


 * If you dont let them be migrated, when the template is deleted, your userboxes are going to be broken. It is wikipedia policy to move them from Template: to a userspace, ise User:UBX, like mets is doing :) Reedy Boy 23:10, 13 April 2007 (UTC)
 * As per WP:UBM Reedy Boy 23:11, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

Move request
Hi, since you took a neutral decision some time ago for an article regarding the provice of Bolzano (the move of Meran-Merano to Merano, that is now contested again...), I ask you if you could consider the article about Isarco (now Eisack). The current name is clearly against the naming conventions, because the name that is most commonly used in English is Isarco, as you can quickly see -for example- with these four links: Google: English: Isarco (58100) and Google: English: Eisack (13400), or Google: English: Isarco river (174) and Google: English: Eisack river (38). I don't know how it works in these cases, is it possible to impose the correct name, or, at least, to have a correct poll somehow (in the previous one many of the few users involved were biased)? I didn't start a new move request because the page was moved a few days ago. When you have time! Thanks.--Supparluca 08:34, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

Signpost updated for April 16th, 2007.
You are receiving this message because you have signed up for the Signpost spamlist. If you wish to stop receiving these messages, simply remove your name from the list. Ralbot 06:14, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Deleting question
The deletion of Xinjiang Chalkis Co.Ltd is in question,this company is the second biggest Ketchup producer in the world.--Ksyrie 06:10, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

Bot Q
Can your bot find all instances of my old username and change it to my new username?

Old: User:Darkest Hour

New: User:Razorclaw

Thanks,  Razorclaw ⊚ 20070420152940


 * Everything please. Thanks again for doing this for me,  Razorclaw ⊚ 20070423153721


 * No I can't. Sorry, I cannot download files its not allowed. Regards, Razorclaw ⊚ 20070423195600

WP:BAG election
There is a current election in progress for a new member of the Bot Approvals Group. The discussion is being held on WT:BAG. Thank you, — xaosflux  Talk  23:36, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

TeckWiz's RFA
Hey Mets501. Thanks for coming off your Wikibreak to support my unsuccessful RFA this week under my old name, TeckWiz. Also thanks for helping me with it. I'm now known simply as User:R. I hope to keep helping and improving Wikipedia alongside you. -- TeckWiz is now R Parlate Contribs@(Let's go Yankees!) 23:29, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

Signpost updated for April 23rd, 2007.
You are receiving this message because you have signed up for the Signpost spamlist. If you wish to stop receiving these messages, simply remove your name from the list. Ralbot 06:51, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

AWB (not urgent)
Hi Mets, I hope the studying's going well and best of luck with your exams.

If, however, you find yourself wanting to play dev for an hour or so, this might interest you and could certainly use your help. I tried to improve your nudge timer but I think I messed it up somewhat ;) --kingboyk 13:59, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

Replied at User_talk:Kingboyk --kingboyk 18:58, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

Your userpage has been vandalized
Just wanted to warn you. MrMacMan Talk  17:17, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

Signpost updated for April 30th, 2007.
You are receiving this message because you have signed up for the Signpost spamlist. If you wish to stop receiving these messages, simply remove your name from the list. Ralbot 06:34, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

Phillip Torrone article
Hi,

Firstly, please feel free to leave this note until you are finished with your exams etc.

When you have time, could you have a look at your speedy delete of the Phillip Torrone article. A quick glance  at the pages that linked to this, or Googling for it, will show this should be worthy of at least an Afd.

Thanks, akaDruid 15:03, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

Userpage Deletion?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Pugidsound

It's just a mass of pointless pictures, spam, and utter non-sense. Maybe the user should be banned altogether, they seemed to have made no real contributions outside of their page. LikuX 11:28, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

Signpost updated for May 7th, 2007.
You are receiving this message because you have signed up for the Signpost spamlist. If you wish to stop receiving these messages, simply remove your name from the list. Ralbot 06:26, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

Can I ask is there a WP:ANI policy regarding unresolved issues
Hi Mets501, I've commented in an ANI 2 days ago, the issue went uncommented and went into the archive, I brought it back and since I reposted it another editor has said that they requested for comment on the same user twice before with no one making any comments. I would really, really like to see some comment on the issue. I hope this doesn't come across as canvassing but no one has commented on the issue and I don't want to see it fade away again. It is posted here. MrMacMan Talk  03:29, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Not really, the guy who posted in response told me about the past 2 ANI reports he filed that have gone with no comment. I didn't think I could WP:RFC on a ANI because of the short time period before the topic falls into the archive. Thanks, MrMacMan  Talk  17:27, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

MediaWiki:Monobook.js versus MediaWiki:Common.js
Hi, I've send this problem to Interiot but I have no answer yet. Maybe I don't bother you.

I use mediawiki 1.6.10 and I try to make titles appear as I type it when I create them. I see that you create a MediaWiki:Common.js (here is one: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MediaWiki:Common.js; here is another one: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=MediaWiki%3ACommon.js&diff=89767515&oldid=89724823) where I could find something to allow real title display on the top of every page. I see it work on many wikis but when I try to use it on my mediawiki doesn't work.

I understand that is a problem linked to the file called MediaWiki:Common.js(in 1.9 version) and MediaWiki:Monobook.js(in 1.6.10 version that I use now) in order to use the proper template (e.g. for having this as title test_t we must insert the following code at first line of edit page ).

I can use just MediaWiki 1.6.10 because of php 4 ruling on this server so I've tryed to take the "Technical restrictions" title fix form the MediaWiki:Common.js (from here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MediaWiki:Common.js) and added to my MediaWiki:Monobook.js but did'n work.

I try to replace entire MediaWiki:Monobook.js with your MediaWiki:Common.js but no results.

Maybe you can tell me something about this versioin of mediawiki to allos real titles work.

Thanks in advance.

Stefan 86.35.136.59 11:58, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm no expert on MediaWiki software history, but there are plenty of reasons why it wouldn't work. New variables get added and some get taken away by default with each new version, so it's possible that it's relying on a non-existent variable in your version.  Also, remember that it's linked to the id "RealTitle" which you need in the CSS. — M ETS 501 (talk) 17:00, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

Thank you
Thanks, Mets for reverting vandalism in my user page. (although late) --Meno25 08:50, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

Incorrect replacement of "Portugese" with "Portuguese"
Hi, this bot replaced the word "Portugese" with "Portuguese" in the article "Richard Hakluyt". Unfortunately, in the context, "Portugese" is correct because that is how the word is spelled in a book title of 1609. How do I stop your bot (or other bots) from trying to "correct" this old-fashioned spelling? Cheers, Jacklee 12:07, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

I wasn't aware that any bot has approval for automated spelling fixes Mets, do you have approval for this? --kingboyk 14:01, 10 May 2007 (UTC)
 * That was actually all manually done using AWB. I was checking each edit before saving, and I see now why it shouldn't have been changed.  Funny, I actually remember seeing all those spelling mistakes in that sentence but I guess it never occurred to me that it was actually supposed to be like that :-)  Sorry. — M ETS 501 (talk) 18:05, 10 May 2007 (UTC)
 * And in the future when I'm doing manually assisted stuff on my bot's account I'll make that clear in the edit summary. — M ETS 501 (talk) 18:07, 10 May 2007 (UTC)
 * And also if you're curious, this task was prompted by this. — M ETS 501 (talk) 18:10, 10 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Aha - I had looked on Metsbot's requests page, but not the general request page. But if you were doing the changes manually with AWB, should they technically have been Mets501 edits rather than Metsbot edits? (And, most important, shouldn't you be studying? :) ) Newyorkbrad 18:32, 10 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Well, my edits, but on MetsBot's account. I usually just do all repetitive tasks on MetsBot's account, just to separate my "real" contributions from my "fake" ones. — M ETS 501 (talk) 18:37, 10 May 2007 (UTC)
 * I don't know if there's policy about it, but I'm cringing at the idea of doing manual edits under a bot flag (assuming Metsbot is flagged). Maybe there should also be a "gnome flag" that you could turn on and off? 75.62.6.237 07:56, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Actually, I thought quite the opposite. I'm obviously not vandalizing, so doing these minor, repetitive fixes shouldn't need to flood the recent changes of real content. — M ETS 501 (talk) 18:02, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Righto, fair enough! --kingboyk 18:33, 10 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Maybe you need a third account for these edits. You could call it MetsAWB, or Metsrepetitiveedits, or perhaps MetsEditingWhenPerHisUserpageHeShouldBeStudying. :) Newyorkbrad 18:10, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

I guess if it's made clear in the edit summary that the edits you make manually are not by MetsBot, that's fine. If you don't, that will cause confusion (as it did in this case) because it'll look as if the bot is malfunctioning. Cheers, Jacklee 22:17, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

MetsBot bug
Hello. MetsBot seems to have a bug when handling URLs with ampersands: see |this this edit. I've undone the breakage, and put a deny tag on there while you fix the bug. If the fix is going to take a while, please disable MetsBot in the meantime, in keeping with policy on bots Thanks, Clicketyclack 05:45, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

Image:1,3-Butadiene.png listed for deletion
An image or media file that you uploaded or altered, Image:1,3-Butadiene.png, has been listed at. Please look there to see why this is (you may have to search for the title of the image to find its entry), if you are interested in it not being deleted. Thank you. Isilanes 12:21, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

Auto Numbered Tables - New Code
How do I propose it? Didn't I just propose it on that Page? I am confused as to how this process works. Please advise. Thanks. (16:58, 12 May 2007 (UTC)) (JosephASpadaro 16:58, 12 May 2007 (UTC))


 * I guess that Mike Dillon did that after you posted. Is there anything more I need to do?  How does this process work, at this point?  Thanks.  (JosephASpadaro 17:01, 12 May 2007 (UTC))


 * Hi again. Thanks for your help.  WHO monitors whether or not concensus is reached?  Me?  Or some administrator will do so?  And what is "concensus"?  People will reply to the post on that page and an Admin will "tally" the votes?  Thanks. (JosephASpadaro 17:08, 12 May 2007 (UTC))


 * Great -- thanks for the info. And good luck on all of your upcoming school / college exams!   I remember them well -- and I do not envy you!  (JosephASpadaro 18:11, 12 May 2007 (UTC))


 * Hi, again. It has been a week since I added my proposal about auto-numbering of Tables and Charts.  However, no one has added any input, comments, or feedback at all during the entire week.  What happens next?  Thanks.  Please advise.   Please see here if you do not recall our previous conversation: User talk: JosephASpadaro ... Thanks.(JosephASpadaro 21:38, 18 May 2007 (UTC))

WT:AWB
Can you see my comment at the bottom there? Does this mean there's a problem? -- TeckWiz is now R Parlate Contribs@ (Let's go Yankees!) 03:28, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

Mathematics CotW
Hey Mets, I am writing you to let you know that the Mathematics Collaboration of the week(soon to "of the month") is getting an overhaul of sorts and I would encourage you to participate in whatever way you can, i.e. nominate an article, contribute to an article, or sign up to be part of the project. Any help would be greatly appreciated, thanks--Cronholm144 23:33, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

P.S. Congratulations on taking BC Calc a year early, That AP Spanish was quite a pain as well. Good luck with English>

Signpost updated for May 14th, 2007.
You are receiving this message because you have signed up for the Signpost spamlist. If you wish to stop receiving these messages, simply remove your name from the list. Ralbot 08:53, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

Yoghurt
I want to start out by saying I'm really sorry that this happened - I did my best to stop it, but sadly I have been overruled by 4 people who are obsessed with name changing (regardless of whether or not I agree with them), and there is a new debate on the Yoghurt talk page about the move - I just felt it would be best if most people who had voted in the past knew about this. daniel folsom 00:02, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

Ok question
Ok, I have the first bug you mentioned fixed, as soon as you told me :) Bug 3 ( the find and replace thing) is fixed as well. Any suggestions on a method to deal with multiple warnings? Most of the bots I see do the same exact behavior (stacking warnings). Perhaps just not have it drop the message when its on a user page? or perhaps don't drop a message if it finds another message with the same page title mentioned? Whats an acceptable solution to this? ——  Eagle 101 Need help? 02:29, 18 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Just so its clearer I have modified the find and replace thing to only do so *if* its inside of gallary tags, (and the direct find and replace is done only within those tags) everything else now has a specific rule. ——  Eagle 101 Need help? 02:34, 18 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Its going image by image, there is no efficient way to go page by page unfortunately. :( We have fewer non-free images then pages on wikipedia. (though I do have a tool that checks page by page, but its not practical here). ——  Eagle 101 Need help? 23:28, 18 May 2007 (UTC)
 * The bot is back to operating, please let me know if there are further concerns with the bot's operations. I halt the bot any time I'm made aware of a bug. Cheers ——  Eagle 101 Need help? 04:32, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

Regarding the revert
I'm not actually obliged to read any message, and I get annoyed when people try to make editorial issues personal. I have the page in question on my watchlist and have already discussed the issue there. I have nothing to say on the matter which can't be said there :) I suppose I ought to use undo or popups when rolling back in a content dispute (and will try to if there's a next time), but the end result would have been the same :) Cheers. --kingboyk 14:42, 19 May 2007 (UTC)
 * I understand what you're saying, but I might have to disagree with you a bit on the not having to read messages, per Requests for arbitration/Betacommand — M ETS 501 (talk) 14:47, 19 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Are you trying to wind me up? You're doing a very good job at it. I'm not obliged to do anything on this site, since I owe it nothing (and give it a lot). I could decide to take my time elsewhere, and may yet do so. I'm not sure what Betacommand's case has to do with me, either. His problems were poor writing, and doing one thing and saying another, not reverting troublemakers with whom he's in discussion in the proper venues already. If I don't want a message on my talk page, I'll revert it, end of story. --kingboyk 14:52, 19 May 2007 (UTC) PS As I'm sure I've told you before, I like to have threads kept together. I have this page on my watchlist so if I message you here please reply to me here :P
 * You know that I'm not trying to wind you up, and you know I have the highest respect for you and all you do here. I think it would be safer to move on at this point; we both know all that we need to know :-) — M ETS 501 (talk) 15:04, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

MetsBot bug (old?)
I went back and reviewed the archive (11) for the timeframe but didn't see any mention of this. And the above note MetsBot bug isn't quite the same thing as this. The bot changed multiple occurances of &amp;#149; into the "i don't understand this codepoint" box character. Is this bug fixed (since way back in early December? ;-)  Shenme 20:04, 19 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Ah, well, good on both of us then. Thanks!  Shenme 03:34, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

AWB and long pages
Hey [team who shall not be named :)]. I was wondering if it's possible to retrieve every user talk page via Special:All pages, without crashing AWB and causing something like a database lock. --R Parlate Contribs@ (Let's go Yankees!) 00:24, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
 * You could try a database dump, but those are quite out of date. What do you need the huge list for? — M ETS 501 (talk) 00:26, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
 * I know going through CAT:UWT doesn't catch every page that has an unsubsted template, so I was going to try to go through every page. So this is impossible to do without crashing something? (reply below) --R Parlate Contribs@ (Let's go Yankees!) 00:28, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Just make the list from transclusions of the templates you need to substitute. Is there something that won't be caught that way? — M ETS 501 (talk) 00:29, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
 * That's how I currently make it. However, there's probably some templates that aren't in the category. I just thought though that I could use the list comparer to see which templates are on WP:AWB/UTT, that aren't in CAT:UTM, but I can't make use of it because a lot of them aren't in the cat anymore because they're redirects from old templates. Is there a way to filter out redirects in the comparer? --R Parlate Contribs@ (Let's go Yankees!) 01:02, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
 * I don't think so, no. I wouldn't worry too much about it; the server resources involved in going through each talk page is much worse than leaving 10 unsubstituted templates. — M ETS 501 (talk) 01:20, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

MediaWiki:Lag-warn-normal
Are you sure this works? With MediaWiki:Longpagewarning, and several others, we had to use separate templates for the #ifexpr to work properly. This may have been fixed in the software, or the {{#expr: may do something? Just wondering if you accounted for this or had any insight. If not, a separate template may be appropriate. —Centrx→talk &bull; 23:50, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
 * I wasn't aware of that problem, but it looks like we won't have to worry about that. See r22310. — M ETS 501 (talk) 00:00, 22 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Acknowledged. —Centrx→talk &bull; 05:26, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

Reply to your comment on my talk page
On first glance, it does seem a bit much, huh? However, he had made a few other nonsense articles, and I guess I forgot to warn him for those ones (probably because I wasn't the one that put the speedy tags on the page). If you'd like, I'd be more than happy to switch the warning; it's no big deal. SuperDT 04:50, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
 * And I shall. Thank you for pointing that out to me :) SuperDT 14:10, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

Signpost updated for May 21st, 2007.
You are receiving this message because you have signed up for the Signpost spamlist. If you wish to stop receiving these messages, simply remove your name from the list. Ralbot 05:26, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

My RfA
Thanks for the comments you left on my RfA. Apparently my prior lack of leaving an edit summary has come back to haunt me in this case, which I am trying to alleviate! Wildthing61476 18:35, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

Why
It was an attempt to discourage people by making it pretty out there that it's not appreciated. I figured it might save some grief - but obviously it's brutal to get metrics on it. -- Tawker 04:19, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Two words, Colbert Report -- Tawker 04:22, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

"The" Wikipedia
I noticed your comment about "The" Wikipedia on my RFA page. It has always been unclear to me whether or not "the" is required, and in fact I must admit that I use it inconsistently—sometimes with "the" and sometimes without. I am more inclined to think it should be just Wikipedia without the article. I'm glad you brought it to my attention, though, and I am going to try to remember to omit the article in the future. I do a lot of copy editing in my professional work, so I should be more attentive to things like this. Has this ever been debated anywhere on The Wikipedia pages? &#9679;DanMS • Talk 20:42, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

My RfA
Hi Mets. I'd like to thank you for your terrific nomination of someone called MaxSem:) for adminship. The RfA is closed at 75/0/0 and I'm an admin now. Max S em 20:55, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

Request for Mediation
This message delivered: 04:18, 26 May 2007 (UTC).

Removed example of solvable quintic
Hi there, I know you are right, my English is very bad (even I am trying my best here, believe me) and I am not very good at computers so maybe done something wrong; anyway I think that adding the example of solution of solvable quintic is a good idea; if you feel your English is good, maybe you can pick a time a bit to edit this example in other words? Ideal will be to get at least 3 examples with differeng Galois group, but at least 1 seems a must for me. Sorry for bad English in this message.

Category rename
Thanks for the heads up. -- Psy guy Talk 23:38, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

WP:RFBOT
Your recent bot approvals request has been Speedy. Please see the request page for details. --ST47 Talk 11:58, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

My Rfa
I just wanted to drop by to thank you for your kind support on my recent Rfa, it succeeded! I hope to live up to your expectations. Oh, and feel completely free to yell at me if I ever screw things up =) Have a great day, and best of luck with the SAT! Take care, PeaceNT 12:10, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

My RFA
Many thanks for your support at my RFA. It ended successfully and I am now a glorified janitor. If I can be of any assistance please don't hesitate to contact me through my talk page. Happy editing! &mdash; O cat ecir  Talk  18:12, 27 May 2007 (UTC)