User talk:Meursault2004/archive-2006

Pantheism & Monism and Romo Kuntoro Wirya
Wah nuwun sekali lagi, I had meant to take the issue about the book with Pak Merle in Canberra in 97, and I keep meaning to go back to Yk to speak to my friends there about issues of 'the mist' that is a constant image in the thesis (one of the story of origin of the imogiri gravesite was that it was a place covered in mist) Thanks again SatuSuro 16:52, 5 January 2006 (UTC) aka vcxlor
 * Maaf - this dropping names and bringing up obscure issues was the result of being up too late - seperti waktu goro goro. Will try and explain all the links and coincidences and things later.SatuSuro 03:38, 7 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Semua hal-hal tentang 1994 -1996 masih persoalan besar. Saya tinggal di Yk dengan Keluarga (tiga anak dan isteri) seperti "Post-Grad Student" riset Imogiri (hubungan UGM sedikit). Romo Kuntoro possibly friend of Ibu Bakdi, dan Bakdi Soemanto was my "sponsor"... So it was Yk for one year september 95-september 96 and even one very embarrassing article in Kompas about my research!SatuSuro 14:04, 7 January 2006 (UTC)
 * I'll have to dig a copy up, it was probably mid to late -1996. I had to give a talk to the centre that Pak Kayam and Bakdi were at, and my Bahasa left me, and I reverted to inggeris, very embarrassing. The story in Kompas was a small one, but I cringe at the memory. I have a massive bibliography of the most obscure articles I found on imogiri, giriloyo, banyusumurup, and many other places:  the best book on imogiri was given (in photocopied form) from Pak merle - Babad Alit - all in javanese script from the Balai Pustaka series from the 1920's, about the time that PBX was doing massive renovations at Imogiri. I could go on, I better stop!SatuSuro 14:40, 7 January 2006 (UTC)  Oh Ibu Tien died when I was in Yk, and I tried to keep as many klippings as possible, as it was national royalty - and on gunung lawu, not imogiri!SatuSuro 14:43, 7 January 2006 (UTC)

TYOLD
Ok it isnt a war movie, then why is a wiki editor qualified to call 65/66 'The Indonesian Civil War',?? My wife, (who had done an honours thesis on an aspect of 65/66) had never heard of the phrase being used - I never have. I am mystified why wiki procedures allow something like that! SatuSuro 15:26, 13 January 2006 (UTC) dengan hormat!


 * Satu, I chose "Indonesian Civil War" as a specifically NPOV title for the period. "G30S" is a specifically Suhartoist take on it, and given that even if the G30S plot were true there's still the question of whether the onus should be on them, or whether it should be on the Council of Generals they accused of treason. "Indonesian Coup of 1965/66" was another option on the table, but who committed a coup against whom is arguable.


 * At any rate: why not call a military conflict, which took hundreds of thousands of lives, and ended up in regime change a civil war?--Daniel 15:53, 13 January 2006 (UTC)

2 things, this was first meant as a non-circularised message :)  and I am sorry if I hadnt indicated as such.  Problem with wikipedia being a golfishbowl   :)   I am afraid I have no further comment online. :) SatuSuro 21:55, 13 January 2006 (UTC)

Messages
Meursault, any further comments I might wish to share have will have to be made out of wiki space. Otherwise, saya diam sekarang. Seeya! SatuSuro 21:58, 13 January 2006 (UTC)

Translation request English -> Tamil/other Dravidian languages
In Indonesian, the word for horse is kuda. Some say that this word is derived from Tamil. Is this correct? Thanks. Meursault2004 18:12, 16 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Talk to User:Ganeshk. deeptrivia (talk) 01:11, 17 January 2006 (UTC)


 * In Tamil, it is kudhura (ra is pronounced as in rat). Pretty close. - Ganeshk   «talk» |« contribs » 13:57, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

Indonesian Indian
The article should mostly stay focused on Indian rather Pakistani and Sinhalese. The other overseas Indian groups topics seem to focus on only Indian. Only south asian overseas groups cover both Indian, pakistani, etc. I'll proof read some more later on. Nice work on the article by the way. A--Dangerous-Boy 03:44, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

Thank You
Yes to your question about romo zoet, I think that I need to consequently work on the Muntilan article as well, I tried a Malioboro start also. Thank You for your offer of help in Imogiri. SatuSuro 10:14, 24 January 2006 (UTC)

Regarding Yours and SatuSuro's Criticisms
Just wanted to speak with you on the whole Indonesian Civil War controversy. I'd just like to say: I'd be fine with a change in title. My chief concern is that the title be accurate and keeps to NPOV but does not gloss over the facts in the process. So long as a new title does not violate that, I'm not going to dig in my heels.

I bring this up because SatuSuro has accused me of being too possessive of this article and Suharto. I just wanted to clarify that while I state my opinions in forceful way and report frequently on what I do, I don't do that to "take possession" of an article over other editors; I do it to stay accountable and above-board. --Daniel 05:30, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

Look, I have a personal logistics/health problem, won't be on wiki regularly for quite a while - (sorry mersault my imogiri work is on hold) but I really think that if there are sufficient I-C-W re-directs my criticism is not warranted as long as there acknowledgement that the average indonesian wouldnt know what it meant in the title! At the time I made the first comments, I thought that there was room for more ancillary articles (like ibu tien, mbak tutut etc on one hand and also aspects of 65/66) but then I realised that defending the main suharto article from almost constant vandalism would tire anyone out (and stress them out as well). well time has run out for me, so I will try to re-emerge in a healthier and stronger edit mode in the middle of the year (or sooner I hope). My apologies to you both, I had hoped to be more robust in my article creation and editing mode, but later...Sampai nanti teman teman SatuSuro 05:59, 6 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Matur Nuwun, terima kasih - thank you, fortunately its all curable! Seperti dengan dukun pintar, when I get around to it, must tell you story about tuesday kliwon and my favourite dukun!SatuSuro 01:05, 8 February 2006 (UTC)

Māori cognates
The main reason I think that the words you mention are unlikely to be cognates of the word 'māori' is the glosses you give, which are all to do with life/living and so on. The word Māori does not mean anything like that - it means 'normal, ordinary.' So that sea water is 'wai tai' while fresh water is 'wai māori'. It later became used as the name of the people because they were ordinary while the foreigners from Europe were strange, pale and spoke funny.

The words you mentioned may be cognate with the Māori word 'mauri' which is the life force or spiritual essence of something, or perhaps with the word 'ora' meaning 'health', 'life'. Neither of those words (mauri, ora) is cognate with the word 'Māori' - they just have a superficial similarity.

I think that another thing to watch is that Māori, like all Polynesian languages, has lost consonants along the way - I would expect that a Javanese cognate would have a consonant between the vowels - - it might have the form m+vowel+CONSONANT+vowel+l or r+vowel+consonant. Also ma- in these words may be a grammatical or derivational prefix which was not present in the oldest forms and which could therefore be misleading us.

And even if it was said in a lecture, that doesnt make it true either - was the lecturer an expert in Oceanic linguistics, or just a Javanese specialist? Kahuroa 11:13, 10 February 2006 (UTC)

Your lecturer
If you are serious about talking with your lecturer about the cognates of 'Māori', then here is the reconstructed Proto-Polynesian word: [.PN   MAQOLI  *ma(a)qoli. :True, real, genuine.] Where q is the glottal stop. So that glottal stop would likely be represented by a consonant of some form if there are cognates in Javanese. I know nothing about Javanese let me add, so anything I said above was only conjecture. There is also a variant form [.PN  MAQONI  :True, genuine]. The word 'mauri' on the other hand, has these cognates: [.AN  MAQURI  :Live, soul, alive; POC *maqudi(p); PMP *hudip "to live"; PAN *`undip; PBN *mauri "to live"] Kahuroa 21:15, 10 February 2006 (UTC)

Great map!
Hi - my compliments on Image:Mataram 1830-en.png - it's very clear and well done! I'd just been reading something last week that had left me confused by the relative locations of the various political entities of the region. So your work is well-timed and cleared things up nicely for me - and is a good addition to the article. CDC (talk) 16:42, 19 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Sekali Lagi - saya setuju, dan 'Enclave Sk' masih di dalam itu! Excellent, very good map.  Kalau tanpa enclave sk, saya kwatir, tetapi....  Sekarang, hampir hilang hal hal sakit, tetapi "logistics" dari rumah ke ramah baru "limits" wiki presence sampai April atau Mei.  Masih ingat tentang artikel imogiri dan lain lain, dan lihat edit kecil di artikel.  Foto foto banyak nanti, dari daerah Imogiri dan Yk.  I can't wait to start uploading them, but I have to wait!  Wah terlalu lama!  Sampai nanti. SatuSuro 13:26, 20 February 2006 (UTC)


 * To your question, sulit sekali mas! Kalau saya lupa semua dari 95/96, dan riset dari waktu itu, (the most complex issue, in some cases villages were split in half).  "Monograph Imogiri oleh Engelbrecht van Bevervoorde, has lists (circa 1904/1095)" I have it in copy, but once again, It will have to wait.Maaf.SatuSuro 13:41, 20 February 2006 (UTC)

Dandi of Sri Dandin
Hoi Meursault, was het leuk donderdag? Zo te lezen wel, ik zag jullie foto en bericht in de 'kroeg' :-) En ging het goed? Iets anders: ik zie toevallig hier op de en: wiki twee pagina's over hetzelfde: Dandi (poet) en Sri Dandin. Hoe moet je zoiets aankaarten? Groeten, Lestari 20:40, 25 February 2006 (UTC)

Arbitration request
I would like to inform about the Arbitration request concerning the long discussion on Talk:Dutch language.

[The link to the Arbitration request will follow soon, as I have to inform you before posting]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration#Statement_by_Sander_on_Talk:Dutch_language

Sander 10:47, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

lots of requests on the indonesia board
I put some up...--Dangerous-Boy 06:16, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

hm.. probably: and any of the figures connected to the Majapahit Empire--Dangerous-Boy 18:40, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Parisada Hindu Dharma
 * Balinese script
 * Old Javanese
 * Sanjaya Dynasty
 * Maharishi Markandeya

Request to review translation
Hi Meursault, I've just translated Kakawin Hariwangsa from Kakawin Hariwangsa, but not having any background in either Javanese literature or the Hindu religion, I'm reluctant to let it stand as it is. Would you mind reviewing the translation for me? Thanks,--Sepa 12:33, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

Hello again... thanks for taking a look at the translation... you didn't make too many major corrections, so that makes me happy! I don't have a particular interest in Javanese literature, and did at the request of Dangerous Boy... but I find it interesting, so I'll work my way through his suggestions slowly. It's good to know I can come to you for help, though! Thanks again, --Sepa 12:20, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

Hi... I've just created a stub for Kakawin, which I thought you might like to take a look at, and see if there is anything else you could add, as you're the resident expert! I've included some references, but I don't know how the reference links work, so if you do, please correct them. I was also wondering if it was worth creating a category of Kakawin... how many are likely to have articles created for them? Anyway, let me know your thoughts, --Sepa 09:02, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

Hello again... what do you mean you are taking a wiki-break? Is that allowed for persons with a 'fatal' wikiholic score of 560?!

You are right, I am Australian, although the reason I referenced Helen Creese was because hers were the only articles I could access on Kakawin. I have been living in London, in the UK, for the last eight years, and I don't attend a university, so my resources are limited to those freely available on the internet. There are a lot of articles only available through the Muse system, but only libraries have access to those, which is very frustrating. Ironically, one of my Indonesian lecturers when I was studying in Australia 9 years ago is Dr Tom Hunter, who has translated several Kakawin. His articles are only available through Muse, unfortunately.

Anyway, enjoy your wikibreak, and the football, and I will look forward to seeing your contributions to the article... as you speak Dutch, Indonesian, and Javanese, your contributions will be much more effective than mine, as I am forced to rely on non-existent English sources! Cheers, --Sepa 10:55, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

Howdy, I like what you've done to the Kakawin article... it makes sense of a lot of what was in the Indonesian article, but which I couldn't make head or tail of at all. I was particularly interested to see the translation and origin of guru laghu.

Yes, I know Tom, but only as a student of his 9 years ago... please give him my best, I have often wondered how he was going. My name, btw, is Kylie Fowler... athough I wouldn't be surprised (but I would be dissapointed) if he didn't remember me! I enjoyed his classes. I would enjoy working on more Kakawin together, and in the meantime, while you are watching the football, I will create the Kakawin category and continue my efforts in trying to bring the Kartini article up to featured status, which is what I work on when I'm not getting sidetracked by Javanese literature :) --Sepa 14:30, 11 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Just to let you know I made a few minor changes to Bhinneka Tunggal Ika - "notable" for "particular" (particular isn't really used in that context); "promotes" for "propogates", (propogates has horticultural overtones, and has an implication of direct action on the part of someone to it...does that make sense?!); and I rearranged the first paragraph so it is a more direct style of speech. I hope that is OK... I sometimes feel quite protective of my posts, so I understand if you do too. See you... selamat malam...--Sepa 14:47, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

Hello Revo, it's good to "meet" you too. Yes, Kylie is a girl's name... it is quite a common name for Austalian women around my age (I am 32, btw), and now it is quite a common name for young girls all over the world thanks to Ms Minogue!

Thank you for updating me on what Tom is up to. The situation in Yogya is very sad, isn't it. Poor Indonesia has been having a very unlucky time of it in the last 18 months or so!

The Kartini article really needs some more references, particularly for those bits which talk about the controversy surrounding whether the letters are genuine or not. Someone nominated the article for "good article" status, and the reasons it failed had mostly to do with the lack of references (there are extensive notes on why it failed on the "talk" pages. It would be really great if you could find some if you have time between work and the football!

You would be very jealous of where I sit at my work... we have a big screen right near my desk which has the football on it! Unfortunately I don't really understand football so I can't comment on the game, but I was very happy to see the final scoreline! I am looking forward to the Brazil match on Sunday - I know of course we will lose, but there is a small hope inside of me that we will cause the upset of the century by beating them.

What are you doing in the Netherlands? Selemat sore, --Sepa 20:08, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

That is very interesting that you have been living in the Netherlands for the last 20 years... you must have been quite young when you moved there. It seems strange to me to hear of a Javanese person living in the Netherlands, as the part of Indonesia that I am most familiar with is South Maluku, and of course there are many Ambonese living in the Netherlands, including many relatives of my Ambonese 'family', who I lived with as an exchange student when I was a teenager.

From what you wrote, it sounds like you would quite like to move back to Indonesia permanently, although you're not really 100% certain... I can sympathise, as I have a similar dilemma between Australia and Britain. There are so many wonderful opportunities in Europe, particularly in London, and I love how London is so multi-cultural and vibrant, but at the same time I really miss my home town and would really quite like to go home to live. But I also know that if I did move back to Australia then I would be homesick for London in the same way I'm homesick for Australia now. I just have to accept that I have become a chronic sufferer of 'rindu' and can never be cured!

Well, I will see you later, Kylie.--Sepa 21:36, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

Gempa Bumi
Devastated by the impact on my "home ground" near Imogiri, the loss of life and shelter I find very terrible. Merapi and Earthquake articles I find also probelamtic. Anyway slowly back, trust all is well with you! SatuSuro 10:18, 8 June 2006 (UTC) Over the year I lived there, I used to catch the local bus from Yogya down to the Imogiri market at least 2 times a week for close on 45 weeks, some weeks more; then the motor bike rides criss crossing through the area, and then the crazy in the middle of the night bicycle rides from Adisucipto area down to the graveyard ( 4 am on the yogya ring road on bicycle is spooky!) and to think that basically all that I passed (and the people) even though it is ten years later - most gone. I worry about the older people I knew around Imogiri, and I dont think I will be able to go in for a year or so to find out. The photos of the gapura/gate/door collapses at the graveyard online on detik are quite distressing. I now have a very expensive scanner - and in about three months all my negs/and photos from the fieldwork, I will be trying to get them up. There was a large catholic church at the west end of Imogiri, near the east turn of the road towards the market and then the graveyard, I wonder how that fared! Anyway, I think I will be slowly trying improve articles about the place now, in respect of the memory of the people who were lost - so many older people who knew so much, and had such difficult lives. Sampai nanti. SatuSuro 12:46, 8 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Very close to be regular again (after so long) trust you are well, hopefully new articles and cleanups soon :) sekarang SatuSuro  user and sig  !SatuSuro 11:24, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

Indonesian govt adminstration
Sorry for talking in Indonesian Language here:) Bung Revo, rupanya Anda cukup aktif di en-wiki. Iya, benernya saya juga pengen merombak artikel dan penamaan sistem administrasi Indonesia di sini. Kayaknya emang harus dipecah ya, sebagai perbandingan artikel Utrecht dipecah jadi Utrecht (province) dan Utrecht (city), dan bahkan Utrecht (agglomeration). Mestinya Yogyakarta juga yah, demikian pula Klaten dipecah jadi Klaten (regency) dengan Klaten (town) (bukan Klaten (city)) :) Kalo city untuk kota otonom (d/h kotamadya), kalo town boleh ibukota kabupaten, ato boleh juga kota kecamatan. Tapi BTW saya masih punya banyak kerjaan di id-wiki, dan lebih baik nyetandarin dulu artikel2 serupa di id-wiki, baru nanti di en-wiki. Salam :) wic 2020 talk bicara 04:40, 14 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Mas Revo, mungkin Anda bisa ikut memberikan pendapat mengenai usulan saya di sini. wic 2020 talk bicara 07:41, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

Oh yeah!
Oh yeah, sorry I suddenly got distracted with this Colonization of Venus article and I completely forgot about everything else until just now when I remembered. That looks great, thanks. I didn't expect it to be so long. I think I'll leave a message on the LFN wiki as well to let them know. Mithridates 14:56, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

Welcome
How are you (apa kabar) ? And welcome to Wikipedia! Just to let you know, at the Indonesian WikiProject there are a group of editors collaborating to improve the articles related to Indonesia. We hope you can join us to make the project even better!

Here are some Indonesia-related project resources which may be of use:
 * Indonesian WikiProject
 * Indonesia Portal

Hope you find these useful. If not you can improve them, it's Wikipedia! Okay, happy editing and take care.

I know you are my senior, but, but.. :P Cheers -- Imo eng  03:05, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

Spinach & bayam
Hi Meursault2004,

Having an issue with Spinach and id:Bayam - they keep getting interwiki-linked, though they're not the same. Do you know what the Indonesian is for Spinach? Or would it just be called spinach, as a foreign word? Thanks --Singkong2005 talk 16:49, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

List of Gadjah Mada University people
Created the article, if you know any other famous alumni it would help. Also, could you help out with Dewa Made Beratha and Gedong Bagus Oka? I'm somewhat like Dangerous-boy, and like to dabble in Hinduism worldwide so I thought I would ask a good Indonesian speaker for help. Singkong seems to be a bit busy at the moment, so I'm asking you for that reason.Bakaman Bakatalk 16:16, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

Blokkade op de Nederlandse Wikipedia
Graag uw stem voor mijn deblokkade op de pagina http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Blokkeringsmeldingen#Voor_opheffing_van_de_blokkade: Extremely sexy 19:31, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Hartelijk dank voor uw steun inderdaad, vriend. Extremely sexy 13:50, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

Indonesia image license
Hi, I changed of license tag for images that you've uploaded to commons (Image:Soeharto.jpg as one example). I've made also license tags suitable for Indonesia according to Indonesia Copyright Law. See Copyright_tags. Just to let you know and also for the ID-wikipedians. Cheers. &mdash; Indon ( reply ) &mdash; 14:25, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

Request
Artikel ini perlu dikembangkan agar dapat memenuhi kriteria sebagai entri Wikipedia. Bantulah untuk mengembangkan artikel ini. Jika tidak dikembangkan, artikel ini dapat dihapus

ITs on id:Gedong Bagus Oka article. Gedong Bagus Oka was one of the foremost authorities on Hinduism in Indonesia. I dont know what it means but I'm guessin it means "this doesnt assert notability". Could you translate that text for me?Bakaman Bakatalk 05:44, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

Berkas:Soekarno.jpg
On 3 March 2004 you uploaded a photograph of Soekarno to the Indonesian Wikipedia, which since has been copied to several Wikipedias, including the English one: Image:Soekarno Indonesia.jpg. As you can see there, the "fair use" claim is deemed insufficient: "To the uploader: this tag is not a sufficient claim of fair use. You must also include the source of the work, all available copyright information, and a detailed fair use rationale." If I understand correctly, this played a role in the recent delisting of the article Overthrow of Sukarno. Do you have any further information about the photograph that can help to establish the "fair use" claim? Terima kasi --Lambiam Talk  13:43, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

Java collaboration
Hi ! Starting today, the Indonesia Collaboration is Java. Come along and help make this an article worthy of the world’s greatest island. There’s a suggested to-do list on the the talk page to which you can add, or just pick a task. All sorts of tasks are required, Images, Citations, Research, Copy Edit; you name it, it needs to be done – this important article needs your help!! Regards -- Imo  eng  08:44, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

Language
Just saw your editing the language part of the Java article - Peter Carey I am sure had a quote in one of his works of what Pangeran Diponegoro thought of the language of the pasars in his time - the language of the chooks (ayam) - clearly thinking that Javanese was well above it all! SatuSuro 13:29, 31 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Thank you for your response. SatuSuro 22:39, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

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