User talk:Michael D. Turnbull/Archives/2022

Question from ENES(Enchy) on Talk:Ivan Sergei (14:04, 2 January 2022)
Hi, my name is Enes and I am from Bosnia and Herzegovina. I am interested in information about his parents, because I think that Ivan Sergei actually comes from somewhere in the Balkans, I want to say his origin. Can I get information about it, just so I know. --ENES(Enchy) (talk) 14:04, 2 January 2022 (UTC)


 * Hello, welcome to Wikipedia. I've deleted the repeats of your question: I'm not sure how you managed to get the copies! I'll add some general information about editing Wikipedia to your Talk Page in a little while. The key is that for biographies of living people Wikipedia has very strict standards. All statements must be backed up by reliable sources. These don't have to be online sources, although these days many of them will be. However, they have to be published in the sense that they are in principle available to anyone to verify they are accurate. So they can be in foreign languages or obscure books that only a few libraries might hold. I don't know why you believe that Ivan Sergei comes from somewhere in the Balkans because the article says he was born and raised in the US and that fact is backed up by the quoted sources. Similarly, this link quoted as a reference mentions his Italian / Dutch descent, which I would assume means that these were the nationalities of his parents. Of course, sources can be wrong but if you want to alter the article, you'll need to find other source(s) which back up what you intend to add. You cannot just put in information you personally believe to be true: on WIkipedia we call this original research and it is strictly forbidden here. By all means come back and add any further questions you have for me into this thread. Mike Turnbull (talk) 15:43, 2 January 2022 (UTC)

Question from SobieskyPL (09:23, 4 January 2022)
Hi, I accidentally added letter „g” in this article. How can I revert this change?

Article: https://pl.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macierz_odwrotna --SobieskyPL (talk) 09:23, 4 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Hi . You can revert any edit you make on any page just by going to the "History" tab that appears alongside the article in question and clicking on the "undo" option in the list of edits that appear alongside your name/timestamp. I note that this question on my Talk Page is the only edit your account has made to the English Wikipedia and that the page you linked to (on the Polish Wikipedia) has never been edited by you — its last edit was on 18 August 2021. So are you sure of your facts? Maybe you edited the page but did not save the changes? Mike Turnbull (talk) 11:46, 4 January 2022 (UTC)

Question from Suriyakp93 (10:30, 19 January 2022)
hi sir how to get a editing job in Wikipedia --Suriyakp93 (talk) 10:30, 19 January 2022 (UTC)
 * There are no jobs here, if you mean work for payment, . All contributors are volunteers who do what they can, when they can. Wikipedia is one of the most-read websites in the world and is proud of its largely accurate articles on a huge variety of topics. I am rewarded by the knowledge that my writing here will be around long after I'm gone! Mike Turnbull (talk) 10:45, 19 January 2022 (UTC)

Merger of Alkane stereochemistry into Conformational isomerism
Hi, there has been a recent objection to the merger of Alkane stereochemistry into Conformational isomerism so I was wondering if you would be willing to rejoin the discussion again since the consensus was made years ago but I want to ensure that this current objection is heard by the original participants of the discussion before I merge and remove this from the backlog. Thanks! -Karthanitesh (talk) 00:54, 19 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Actually,, the original discussion was only one year ago. I've made another comment and I think the consensus is pretty clear as a merge: I hope you are happy to do the work! Mike Turnbull (talk) 10:16, 19 January 2022 (UTC)
 * You're right! Sorry, the new year has made me forgotten how much time actually has past. Thanks for your reply and when a week has passed since the last comment, I will do the merger! -Karthanitesh (talk) 15:46, 19 January 2022 (UTC)

Question from JoyousCreative (15:22, 21 January 2022)
Hi ! If something happened in an episode of a TV show (e.g., last night, Coco Rocha appeared as a guest judge on Project Runway), do you need to add a source for this information? If so, what would be appropriate (e.g., a link to the episode summary on the channel)? (There are no good news sources talking about this so that as a reference isn't a choice right now.) Thanks, in advance, if you have any advice. I couldn't figure it out by searching the help. --JoyousCreative (talk) 15:22, 21 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Hi . The relevant policy is this one on the biographies of living people, namely all quotations and any material challenged or likely to be challenged must be supported by an inline citation to a reliable, published source. Now, you have added material that is very current, so sourcing is a problem and Wikipedia is not a newspaper nor is it a gossip column. More important, from my experience, is whether the fact of her appearance in this particular show is likely to continue to be a significant part of her career when seen from the perspective of, say, five years' time. If not, then that information is not really of encyclopaedic value. So: what should you do? I suggest you wait a couple of weeks and see whether any newspaper or magazine picks up that appearance and comments on it. If they do, then you can add that as a source. I don't think that you should just link to the episode summary, on the basis that WP:Secondary sources are always better than WP:Primary ones and you certainly want to avoid what some editors call WP:Fancruft. Meanwhile, if anyone reverts your addition to the article today, don't fret about it and take any debate to the relevant Talk Page. Once there is a secondary source, I don't think that there could be an objection to the information being there. Mike Turnbull (talk) 17:11, 21 January 2022 (UTC)

A kitten for you!
Thank you for your help! I looked her up because I didn't know who she was when I watched the episode (as she was the main star and it was all about her and they even changed the rules just to include her prominently), and—when reading her Wikipedia bio—I noticed that her significant appearances on other shows were part of her bio but this new appearance was not there.

I think you may be right, though. It may or may not fall into that fancruft bucket. Since I'm not an expert on what matters in the lives of supermodels, I will definitely defer to other editors with more expertise!

Thank you for taking the time to share all of those detailed notes and specific documentation links. They help so much in my understanding.

JoyousCreative (talk) 17:31, 21 January 2022 (UTC) 

Question from Uscool bea on User talk:MrOllie (22:15, 24 January 2022)
Hello how can i make people like my videos --Uscool bea (talk) 22:15, 24 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Hi . I'm afraid I don't understand your question. This addition to my User Talk Page is the only edit from your account so far. Why are you interested in MrOllie's Talk Page and what has that to do with liking videos? Mike Turnbull (talk) 12:20, 25 January 2022 (UTC)

Wikipedia Library
Hello Mike. Thank you for your offer at the Teahouse to retrieve a Cambridge Core article for my studies into Joseph Vallot. The link to what I'm after is here. If you need me to email me so that you have somewhere to send a pdf, just let me know. (It will be a relief not to have to wade through an article in French for a change!) Cheers, Nick Moyes (talk) 19:33, 28 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Email on way so I can send the .pdf to you. Mike Turnbull (talk) 09:38, 29 January 2022 (UTC)

Question from XS0UL3AT3Rx (02:49, 31 January 2022)
I wanted to start a wiki page for Son of a Fink and the crew. What do you suggest? First time creating a page --XS0UL3AT3Rx (talk) 02:49, 31 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Hi and welcome to Wikipedia editing. I Googled "Son of a Fink and the crew" and found only a few hits, mainly to their own website and a few Facebook entries. That means it will be virtually impossible to create an article on Wikipedia for them. There are billions of people on the planet and millions of organisations, so Wikipedia has to be selective in what it covers and it does that by insisting that anything mentioned here is WP:NOTABLE. There's a lot more about that and other aspects of writing for Wikipedia at this link you should read carefully. My usual advice to newcomers is to start slowly making small edits to topics of interest to you that are already covered by an existing article. I'll add a section on your Talk Page to give some further links that might be helpful. Mike Turnbull (talk) 11:49, 31 January 2022 (UTC)

Thiamine for GA
I am considering this as my next GA nomination for a vitamin, after I finish with Vitamin A, which I will be nominating on February 1st. My usual approach is to check all references, first to see if valid, then second to see if they can be replaced by newer references to content that is 100% available on line. From past experience raising vitamin articles to GA, the process involves removing one-third to one-half of existing refs (and quite a bit of article content), and then expanding content and adding refs. Section titles and order will be made to be more aligned with the other GA vitamin articles. You are welcome if you want to either join in the bloodbath or oppose any of my edits. David notMD (talk) 16:26, 31 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Yes,, I thought you might move on to thiamine and that's why I recently added some chemistry there. Go ahead with your trims and I'll chip in when I can; and certainly once the GA review starts. Mike Turnbull (talk) 18:36, 31 January 2022 (UTC)
 * FYI - I intend to complete the full set of vitamins, but dread tackling vitamin D. And also FYI - vitamin A and immune function was what my doctoral thesis was about, but given that was 40 years ago, I do not consider that a COI. David notMD (talk) 21:10, 31 January 2022 (UTC)

Invitation to discussion: FAC 4 nomination of nonmetal
Please accept this note as an invitation to participate in the discussion of this latest FAC nomination for the nonmetal article.

The context is that you were involved in the FAC 3 discussion for the article (which was not prompted) or you are an editor who made a recent edit to the nonmetal article.

Thank you. Sandbh (talk) 07:12, 4 February 2022 (UTC)

Question from Yeasin Skyhawk (16:07, 15 February 2022)
Hi --Yeasin Skyhawk (talk) 16:07, 15 February 2022 (UTC)
 * And hi to you also, . I've added some links to your User Page that I hope you will find helpful. By all means continue in this section if you want more information. Meanwhile, make sure that anything you add to Wikipedia includes reliable sources that confirm what you have included. The lack of sourcing was why your first-ever edit was reverted. Mike Turnbull (talk) 17:56, 15 February 2022 (UTC)

Oh thats why it was reverted. Thanks for the information Yeasin Skyhawk (talk) 18:25, 15 February 2022 (UTC)

DYK for 5-Aminoimidazole ribotide
Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 00:03, 28 February 2022 (UTC)

Question from Rubinia87 (14:39, 10 March 2022)
Hi Michael

I am sorry for bothering you. I tried to solve that issue myself but I am lost. I edit a List of Ghost towns. Some of them of course come from the same source. I was able to put a Reference in over Cite -> automatic. But I can't reuse it. that tap is inactive. I added the cite again and again but then I see it in the Ref List 10 times. I also didn't find the Ref Tool Wikipedias help tell me tu use and then reuse. How can I use the same Cite again then? --Rubinia87 (talk) 14:39, 10 March 2022 (UTC)
 * No bother, that's what mentors are for, ! So, suppose we look at the first reference To reuse it, follow the instructions at WP:REFNAME. This means putting something like  in place of the first tag (if you look at this in the source editor, you'll see I've done that). Now, everywhere you want to re-use that reference you just place (note the final forward slash) and that second or third instance will work. Don't be confused by the nowiki tags here in my reply. They're only there to prevent the Wiki software from doing its magic: they aren't part of what you need for a named reference. Good luck with your editing. Mike Turnbull (talk) 14:58, 10 March 2022 (UTC)
 * Hi. Thank you for your help. I tried it again. made the cite on the first one and then use . It didnt work again. I dont know where I dont understand that. Then I had a look on the edit source of your answer, saw how your secnd and third time is made and tried it that way. Like  . I on purpose saved the list wrong in case you want to see it in my article. List of ghost towns in Ohio. I know though that I should not make a space between / and >. I did some html coding, what makes me even more frustrated that this doesnt work haha. I code a website, why cant i make that work. Rubinia87 (talk) 17:53, 10 March 2022 (UTC)
 * I see the problem. While you correctly tried to reuse the Hancock reference, you didn't put the ref name=Hancock part in the FIRST instance where you created the reference, which gave an error because as far as the software was concerned, it didn't know what you meant when invoking that cite again later in the page. I fixed this with this edit today. In looking a the article, I note that most of the entries refer to "Hacock County", not "Hancock County", which I suppose is a typo? Mike Turnbull (talk) 11:37, 11 March 2022 (UTC)
 * , sorry forgot the ping... Mike Turnbull (talk) 11:38, 11 March 2022 (UTC)

Question from Mikeygio2000 (17:40, 15 March 2022)
Hello, sorry to bother you. I’m athlete and I’m trying to create a Wikipedia page for myself. How might I do that? --Mikeygio2000 (talk) 17:40, 15 March 2022 (UTC)
 * Wikipedia does not allow autobiographies. Writing our encyclopedia does not include using Wikipedia to promote yourself. Chris Troutman  ( talk ) 18:17, 15 March 2022 (UTC)
 * Strictly speaking, autobiography is not forbidden, merely strongly discouraged for the good reason that it is difficult for the subject of a biography to write it to Wikipedia's somewhat demanding standards. More pertinently in your case is that Wikipedia restricts its articles (not "pages": this is not social media) to those topics which are notable by very exacting standards. Otherwise all 7 billion of us on the planet would be justified in having articles about ourselves. According to your User Page, I guess you feel your NCAA Division 1 soccer playing may be notable. Unfortunately, that isn't the case. If you look at Wikipedia's criteria WP:NSOCCER you'll see that only fully professional soccer players (i.e. those paid a salary that they can live on and do not need additional sources of income) would qualify on that basis alone. So my advice is to continue to pursue your dreams in Spain and forget about having any sort of biography here. By all means contribute to the encyclopaedia by adding to its existing articles in areas that interest you: most if not all can be improved.... Mike Turnbull (talk) 12:02, 16 March 2022 (UTC)

DYK for Carol Van Strum
— Maile (talk) 00:02, 11 April 2022 (UTC)

Question from Dervishj (11:26, 16 April 2022)
Hello! Im new on the Wikipedia, I want to translate some things but ı dont know anything about how add languages etc. Please, help me! Thanks! --Dervishj (talk) 11:26, 16 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Hello, and welcome to Wikipedia! Lots of people help out by translating articles between the various language version of the encyclopaedia and the main advice is given at WP:TRANSLATE. I've never personally done this as my only second language (French) is weak. You may like to take a look at my User Page to see how editors normally tell others about the languages they are competent in, with a "Babel box". You should never attempt to translate articles unless you are fairly competent in both: and don't rely on rough methods like Google translate except to give you a first draft, perhaps. On the English Wikipedia we insist on reliable sources for information, so place as much emphasis on looking at the foreign-language sources as you do on the text that's been based on them. Some of the best translations completely re-write the text based on the sources, rather than slavishly follow the paraphrasing in existing articles. Note that foreign sources are acceptable in English articles but if English-language ones exist they are to be preferred. Get back to me in this Section of my Talk Page if you have more questions once you get going, or use the Teahouse, where new editors will quickly get advice from those with more experience. Good luck! Mike Turnbull (talk) 11:46, 16 April 2022 (UTC)

Thank Dervishj (talk) 15:41, 16 April 2022 (UTC)

Question from Kreesa Sales (17:17, 25 April 2022)
hey Michael, how can I add wiki about my business? --Kreesa Sales (talk) 17:17, 25 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but the simple answer is "you can't". Wikipedia forbids promotion and insists that editors who are paid by the company they write about declare that fact (see link). That is a mandatory part of Wikipedia terms and conditions. The company itself would need to be notable in a specific way that yours probably doesn't meet. If your company is notable, then someone unconnected to it would probably already written about it! If you think about it, there are literally millions of companies in the world and billions of people, so Wikipedia has to limit what it covers. You would be better to spend your efforts on the company's own website and social media presence. Mike Turnbull (talk) 06:45, 26 April 2022 (UTC)
 * pinging you in case you didn't put this page on your watch list. Mike Turnbull (talk) 15:38, 26 April 2022 (UTC)

Tirzepatide
Hello sir, sorry to come bothering you again. I just wanted to let you know that our article, Tirzepatide, has had an explosion in pageviews (most likely due to Eli & Lilly's Q1 results being posted), the compound has had mentions in large publications such as Bloomberg & MarketWatch, I just thought that was really cool, and our efforts are now visible to more people. X-750 I've made a mistake, haven't I? 10:51, 30 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Hey, that's not bothering me at all — please don't apologise! That's great news and makes the time I spent doing the drawing and describing the chemistry worth the effort.... Mike Turnbull (talk) 11:09, 30 April 2022 (UTC)


 * Most certainly, teamwork makes the dream work! X-750 I've made a mistake, haven't I? 11:45, 30 April 2022 (UTC)

Question from Masterdog75 (11:34, 8 April 2022)
Hiya,

I'm trying to upload the logo for the Kenton Theatre to its page, but it keeps getting blocked. Which is a pain! Help ?! (Please) I should point out, I am their PR guy! Just for some reason it's not having this logo at all.

Cheers in advance Samx --Masterdog75 (talk) 11:34, 8 April 2022 (UTC)


 * I'm happy to help (I'm a theatre fan although usually attend in London)! There are a load of considerations for the Kenton Theatre article, so let's take them slowly and stepwise. First, although the article has existed on Wikipedia since 2006, it would probably not be accepted if it had been drafted and submitted today. Mainly that's because it has no in-line sources that show it is notable in Wikipedia's somewhat strict sense and allow the reader to verify that what's stated is accurate. Wikipedia is an encyclopaedia, so it seeks to summarise what reliable published information states that's written by people independent of the subject. In this case, this means that the theatre's own website is a poor source and we need to drill down to coverage in books, newspaper articles or scholarly journals. I note that a search at this URL in Google scholar has a few hits that are worthy of follow-up but don't scream out as giving significant coverage. Can you suggest some sources that can back up what the article says (they don't have to be online but they do have to be independently published)?


 * Thanks for revealing that you are the PR person for the theatre. It's very important to be upfront about this: Wikipedia has mandatory terms and conditions that you must read and fully comply with (see WP:PAID). In particular you need to add to your user page a note about your conflict-of-interest in relation to the theatre. Then you should edit only on the article's talk page at Talk:Kenton Theatre, where I and other interested editors can decide that suggestions you make about changes to the article itself are OK and in particular don't stray into WP:PROMOTION which is strictly forbidden. Make all your suggestions there (not here on my Userpage) from now on and between us we can improve the article.


 * Finally on the logo of the theatre: by which I assume you mean the text+theatrical masks which I can see on the theatre's website. You need to read WP:LOGO to better understand the issues. Were you to upload the logo to Wikimedia Commons it would have to be released under a license that would allow anyone, anywhere in the world, to use it for any purpose including commercial purposes (without paying the theatre any royalties). As you can imagine, most organisations don't want that and if they do their CEO needs to be aware of this and approve! So, instead, Wikipedia typically takes an approach called "fair use", which allows low-resolution versions of logos to be uploaded here on the English-language Wikipedia and used ONLY within the article about the organisation in question. To do that, you would follow the instructions at WP:FUR, which can be a bit tricky but is certainly possible. I can do this for you if you confirm that the fair-use way is how you wish to go. Just continue editing into this section for getting help on that and anything else you need advice on, as distinct from potential additions to the article. Mike Turnbull (talk) 16:06, 8 April 2022 (UTC)
 * As you will have noted, I have worked on the article Kenton Theatre which has IMO improved it considerably. I could do more if I had access to Bill Port's book. The article could do with some basic photographs of the exterior and the stage as seen from the auditorium. I suggest you take some with your own camera and upload them, as copyright holder, to Wikimedia Commons. Conflict-of-interest does not apply to such uploads (although it would if you attempted to add them to the article, so just let me know here when you're done). Mike Turnbull (talk) 14:08, 2 May 2022 (UTC)

FYI
I got an answer to my Teahouse question you tried to help with: Village_pump_(technical). Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 08:41, 10 May 2022 (UTC)

Question from Tristan lebggg on User:Tristan lebggg (17:24, 13 May 2022)
Hi, I just joined and I trie to import a photo on my Wikipedia page, and i don’t succeed. Can you help me please?

(I’m on IPad, btw) --Tristan lebggg (talk) 17:24, 13 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Hello . I see that whatever you have been doing on your User Page has been removed as not being appropriate there. Please read WP:UPYES to learn what sort of thing is allowed. Placing images on any page uses the same mechanism, explained at WP:IMAGES. Mostly we use images from Wikimedia Commons that are properly licensed from a copyright point of view. You will get into trouble if you try to use images whose copyright status is not clear. May I suggest that you spend some time editing existing articles rather than worrying about your own Userpage? You don't want to be accused of being WP:NOTHERE. Mike Turnbull (talk) 17:37, 13 May 2022 (UTC)

Question from Prodigiousfool (17:19, 31 May 2022)
Hi Mike, I created my first article and I was wondering if you could give it a look and see if it looks good: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft:Rubicon_(protein). Thanks! --Prodigiousfool (talk) 17:19, 31 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Hi . At first glance it looks excellent. The date errors in the refs are easily fixed (just use year without month or full YYYY-MM-DD instead). I'm a bit short of time now but I'll take a more detailed look tomorrow. Well done, given that this seems to be your first ever article! Mike Turnbull (talk) 17:34, 31 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Hi again . I took another look at Draft:Rubicon (protein) and Draft:Rubicon homology domain and fixed the cite errors. I'm sure that these drafts will be accepted and I just have general comments. The first article, in particular, could do with a bit of expansion. According to WP:LEAD, the introduction (section before the contents box) should summarise what the rest of the article says. So I'm always a bit worried when it includes citations that are not repeated in the main article. The majority of your 16 references appear there but not again, which suggests to me you are not really summarising but stating stuff you don't repeat later. For a general readership I think it would in any case be better to use as simple wording in the lead as you possibly can. What is Rubicon's role, where does it occur and why is it notable? Cut out the jargon, where possible (e.g. NF-κB essential modulator (NEMO), interferon regulatory factor 3 (IRF3)], caspase recruitment domain-containing protein 9 (CARD9)), leaving these as later detail. Remember that most readers don't get beyond the lead and it is the lead that will be shown in places like Google's knowledge panel. That said, you have done an excellent job, to the point that I suspect you have perhaps edited here before as an IP! Mike Turnbull (talk) 10:08, 1 June 2022 (UTC)
 * @Michael D. Turnbull, thanks so much for your kind words and help. I'll definitely take your advice on restructuring the jargon out of the introduction, and expanding detail in later sections. Thinking about it in terms of what will show up in knowledge panels is a great exercise. Thanks again! -Prodigiousfool Prodigiousfool (talk) 15:41, 1 June 2022 (UTC)

Discussion of bonding of O2 and combustion
Hi Mike: Thank you for the constructive discussions of the bonding of O2 and its consequences for the energetics of combustion etc. I have modified sentences on the page on fire to take into account your suggestions. Could you take a look if you agree and maybe also weigh in on the corresponding discussion on the talk page? Thanks. Klaus Schmidt-Rohr (talk) 12:48, 15 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Hello . One of the problems with Wikipedia editing is that you have to reach a WP:CONSENSUS, which can be difficult when the issues are so technical and editors here are of unknown competence and may have hidden agendas. I do indeed think that your (or my, based on my reading of some of the literature!) suggestion is correct and useful but the ship has sailed as far as placing such comments into articles here is concerned, at least in the short term. Many of your additions are being reverted as we speak (the one at fire already has been). I think that's unfortunate but in a project like this my response is to move on in the assumption that the wisdom of crowds will eventually win out. I would encourage you to do the same: our limited time and energy is better spent in improving the encyclopaedia in other ways. You also have the advantage, as a current teacher of students and active researcher, to contribute to chemical knowledge elsewhere. Please do, however, continue to bring your skills to Wikipedia editing — I can see from your edit history that you have improved lots of articles. Meanwhile, I'm currently engaged in a minor crusade to help the New Page Patrollers to expunge Xerosydryle from the encyclopaedia. The article has been drafted in good faith but relies on really WP:FRINGE science. If you need a bit of light relief, try reading 10.14294/WATER.2021.2, on which it is based! Mike Turnbull (talk) 13:37, 15 June 2022 (UTC)

Oxygen as a "waste product" of photosynthesis
I think you said at some point in the endless oxygen discussions that you are skeptical of the view that oxygen is a waste product of photosynthesis. I am, too, and was wondering whether you have any good references that might need to be reflected in our coverage of photosynthesis.

IpseCustos (talk) 19:10, 18 June 2022 (UTC)
 * I thought this would be easy, as Plant respiration redirects to Cellular respiration and Cellular_respiration is just what is needed. Sadly, no-one seems to have noticed that the only citation for that section (currently ref #2) is an earlier OID from Wikipedia and thus a circular reference! Fortunately, a quick look in Google scholar gave me 10.1002/9780470015902.a0001301.pub3, which has a .pdf version available here. This seems fine, although it doesn't actually say "not a waste product". I'm an organic chemist, not a biochemist, so I don't own any biochemistry textbooks but there must be plenty that discuss plant respiration and the fact that oxygen is required for this. Hope that helps! Mike Turnbull (talk) 17:27, 19 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Sorry,, I looked at that rather hastily yesterday and actually ref #2 in that article is fine for use elsewhere. The ref 10.1042/bst0311095 is a good review covering the respiratory chain. So together with the other article I found, there's plenty to back up the fact that (some of) the oxygen released by plants is re-absorbed for respiration. In fact, there is a quote Plant respiration thus plays a major role in the global carbon cycle as much of the CO2 assimilated by photosynthetic terrestrial plants is released back into the atmosphere by respiring plants, accounting for approximately 50% of the total annual CO2 input from terrestrial ecosystems (Gifford, 2003) in the Plaxton publication! I'll try to fix ref #4 of Cellular respiration to remove the WP:CIRCULAR cite. Incidentally, I think the first paragraph of Thermodynamic free energy is a brief explanation of why "high energy bond" and similar terminology is not helpful. Mike Turnbull (talk) 15:09, 20 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Thanks a lot! I must say I find this question in particular fascinating, because I'm not aware of how to describe in evolutionary terms that while oxygen was a waste product initially, released carelessly into an atmosphere where it would bounce around for a while before disappearing, plants started relying on the oxygen released by other plants in what the unwary might call an example of cooperation. "When cooperation is unavoidable, cooperate" even sounds like it might be a Wikipedia policy.
 * Be that as it may, no one appears to have had the guts to flatly contradict this particular textbook phrase in a reliable source, We can't really omit the first letter from https://www.tudelft.nl/en/stories/articles/co2-is-not-a-waste-product-but-a-raw-material.
 * "High-energy bonds" is an unhelpful term indeed. "A stores three times more energy than B because its (negative) average bond energy is a third of B's" is a real howler, though. IpseCustos (talk) 15:51, 20 June 2022 (UTC)
 * I don't think that oxygen was ever a waste product in evolutionary terms, as the Plaxton quote makes clear. Plants found they could capture and use the sunlight so that in net terms they grew but I'm sure that respiration was always part of that. Early on, earth's atmosphere was CO2-rich and O2-poor and only after aeons did it become the other way round. The point about humans re-using carbon dioxide is that to do so requires lots of energy, which we have to get from somewhere other than burning fossil fuels if we are to avoid global warming. As of today, we aren't doing a very good job of using sources like sunlight/wind power/tidal. Folk who think we should be storing CO2 (as the URL you supplied) are being disingenuous, since there would be no need to build expensive storage facilities if we recycled the stuff quickly enough: we could just use the atmosphere as a store, as plants do for oxygen! Mike Turnbull (talk) 16:07, 20 June 2022 (UTC)

Question from DebCBanerjee on Contact us/Readers (07:17, 12 July 2022)
There are some contributions done for some articles by me. but can not see those changes. Why is that so ? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sea_Isle_City,_New_Jersey https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mountain_range https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_beaches https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Small_office/home_office https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Home_Office --DebCBanerjee (talk) 07:18, 12 July 2022 (UTC)
 * I took a look at your full list of contributions, which Wikipedia stores at Special:Contributions/DebCBanerjee. this shows me straight away that all but your first edit and the one here on my Talk Page have been reverted by other editors. Reversion is not unusual, it is the way Wikipedia editors seek WP:CONSENSUS for what should be retained in articles. See WP:BRD for more on this. To take one specific example, your edit to Sea Isle City, New Jersey was removed about two hours after you added it by Alansohn, who left an WP:EDITSUMMARY saying "rv [i.e.remove] spam". I have to agree with them. Your addition did not add to the encyclopaedic value of the article and used a reference which if anything turns the article into a tourist guide, which is one of the things that Wikipedia is not.
 * By looking at the history tab of the other articles, you will be able to see similar comments from others who reverted you (or, if not you could ask them on their Talk pages). As a newcomer to Wikipedia editing, you need to tread carefully. The change you made to Small office/home office, for example, was to add Home office as a "See also". If you actually click on that link you'll see that it leads to an article on a government department in the UK: this has nothing whatsoever to do with the topic of small offices! Hence it should not be offered as a suggestion of the "more information" type in that "See also" section. As the editor who removed your addition mentioned in their edit summary, the article already has what we call a WP:HATNOTE to point readers who accidentally arrive at that article when they meant to look for the article about the government department. Please don't be put off by all this. We expect new editors to make some mistakes and provided you learn from them you will over time become a valuable contributor. Seek further help, either from me here or at the WP:TEAHOUSE and you should find that the community is quite welcoming. Mike Turnbull (talk) 11:01, 12 July 2022 (UTC)
 * Thank you @Michael D. Turnbull for helping me so much to become a good editor on Wikipedia DebCBanerjee (talk) 08:55, 13 July 2022 (UTC)

Question from DebCBanerjee on Teahouse (07:50, 25 July 2022)
How will I start writing an article for a software company? --DebCBanerjee (talk) 07:50, 25 July 2022 (UTC)


 * Hi again, . Writing articles from scratch is really tough for new editors! If you wish to try, make sure you read WP:YFA very carefully and follow the advice, which includes using the WP:AFC process. The reason many new articles fail to be acceptable is because they don't convince the reviewers that the topic is sufficiently notable in Wikipedia's special meaning of that word. It isn't enough that the software company exits: they have to meet a detailed set of requirements for companies, mostly that they have been written about by third parties who are WP:INDEPENDENT of them and who have written substantial pieces about them. So, do you have, say, three such sources upon which to base your draft? If so, perhaps you could list them here for me to take a look at and I'll advise whether it is worth your proceeding with the writing. The format for the sourcing within articles is explained at WP:CITE. Mike Turnbull (talk) 12:10, 25 July 2022 (UTC)
 * Hi Mike Turnbull, I want to review my article before publishing. How will I do that. DebCBanerjee (talk) 04:55, 1 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Hi again . As far as I can tell, you have not yet tried to draft any new articles. When you do, please follow the articles for creation link which is a help page with a "Click here to start a new article" button. This allows you to begin to draft something but it does not go straight into the main encyclopaedia: it is held in a special area for drafts. In terms of "review....before publishing" I'm not sure I understand what you mean. If you are using the source editor, there is an option to preview what the text you have typed will look like, as explained at WP:PREVIEW. You don't need to actually save/publish that text but you'll lose it unless you copy/paste the text out into a local text editor on your PC or other device. Drafts don't need to be produced in one large edit. They can be built up slowly using a series of small edits, save/publishing each part as you go, just like within the main encyclopaedia. Once you are happy that the draft is ready for scrutiny by experienced editors to accept (or decline) it, you can use the "submit article for review" option. You could also post the link to your draft here so that I can take a look and give more advice. Mike Turnbull (talk) 10:02, 1 August 2022 (UTC)

Question from Krishnakumar1979123 on Rahul Easwar (20:31, 9 August 2022)
Rahul's Tv show is Around the world in 30 minutes... How can i edit and create an article about the program? --Krishnakumar1979123 (talk) 20:31, 9 August 2022 (UTC)


 * Hi and welcome to Wikipedia editing. Writing articles is really tough when you are a beginner here. Most experienced editors will advise you to try to improve existing articles first as you get to know about the policies and guidelines. For example, I see that there's an article Malayalee House, about a show Easwar was involved in, which is marked as being in need of a lot of improvement. Can you help there? Or one of the other articles about Safari TV shows listed there? If you really want to try to start from scratch with a new article, make sure you use the WP:AFC process (instructions at that link) and begin drafting with the sole intention of showing the topic's notability as a television show in Wikipedia's rather special meaning of the word "notability". In practice, this means that you need to find sources that are reliable and independent of the show. So, has it been discussed and reviewed in quality publications that have editorial oversight? Find about three such sources and base your draft entirely on what they say. Don't use blogs, twitter, or social media comments, only professional journalism. Make sure you read the main advice about article creation, especially the bit about citations. I hope this helps! Good luck. Mike Turnbull (talk) 10:23, 10 August 2022 (UTC)

Question from Lica.marty on Protection policy (15:30, 16 August 2022)
Dear Mentor I have reliable sources that I can add, because in this article https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stepan_Bandera there is a misinformation, that serves to russian propaganda. The part that Stepan Bandera was collaborating with nazi Germany is a lie as his movement actually were against Nazi Germany and resisted both to Soviet Union and Germany. I believe this is a harmful misinformation that has to be edited I can provide reliable resources that can prove mistakes in this article. Please advice the steps how can we work on it. --Lica.marty (talk) 15:30, 16 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Hello . You have recently created an account here, so welcome! I'm afraid that the article on Stepan Bandera is, like many articles from that era, quite controversial and editors need to be particularly careful to ensure they discuss differences of opinion while assuming good faith with others who may disagree with you. As you have already realised, we base the encyclopaedia on what other reliable sources have said, not what we may personally believe. Occasionally, different sources give contradictory opinions, in which case we try to maintain a neutral point of view and perhaps quote from both sides of any dispute. I am no expert on Ukraine but I can see that the current version of the article uses many sources, and that the balance of what appears within the text has been subject to much debate at Talk:Stepan Bandera, which is the correct venue. Please read that carefully (including its archives) to see if others have already discussed your specific concerns. Then you can comment and provide your sources (which do not have to be in English), bearing in mind that the sole objective is to improve Wikipedia, not to engage in heated disputes with others. Your personal views are irrelevant (as are those of other editors): only external already-published material can be the basis for what is written here. So make your points carefully and good luck! Mike Turnbull (talk) 15:58, 16 August 2022 (UTC)

Question from Soufiane67 (00:11, 17 August 2022)
Hello How can I create a new page --Soufiane67 (talk) 00:11, 17 August 2022 (UTC)
 * I've added some useful links to your own Talk Page, so you'll be able to find them easily. I would advise you to start by working to improve existing articles on topics that interest you. Creating a new article (we use the word "page" only for non-article places like Talk Pages) is extremely difficult before you have grasped the basics of editing and can lead to disappointment, but of course it isn't forbidden if you wish to do that. Read WP:UPYES if you want to create a User Page where you would tell others a little about yourself and what you intend to contribute to Wikipedia. Good luck. Mike Turnbull (talk) 14:40, 17 August 2022 (UTC)

DYK for Rana X. Adhikari
Cwmhiraeth (talk) 00:03, 25 August 2022 (UTC)

Board of Trustees election
Thank you for supporting the NPP initiative to improve WMF support of the Page Curation tools. Another way you can help is by voting in the Board of Trustees election. The next Board composition might be giving attention to software development. The election closes on 6 September at 23:59 UTC. View candidate statement videos and Vote Here. MB 03:53, 5 September 2022 (UTC)

Question from Meritkosy on Aba North (04:41, 7 September 2022)
Hello, Please how can I delete an image from an article? Thank you. --Meritkosy (talk) 04:41, 7 September 2022 (UTC)


 * Hi @Meritkosy. The only image that seems to have been in Aba North is its location map in the infobox and this appears correct according to my lookup on Google maps. So what image did you want to remove? Or did you mean to add one? In either case it is a question of locating the image on Wikimedia Commons and then following the instructions at WP:PIC to get them into the article. By all means ask me for further help if you need it. Best wishes. Mike Turnbull (talk) 10:31, 7 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Thank you so much Mike. That was really helpful.
 * Am grateful for the assistance. Meritkosy (talk) 03:02, 9 September 2022 (UTC)

Question from Hilal9695 (19:03, 12 September 2022)
i want to create wikepedia page --Hilal9695 (talk) 19:03, 12 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Since you are a new editor, I don't think you should start editing by trying to create a new article. Instead, you might go through our tutorial material and learn how to edit existing articles. Chris Troutman  ( talk ) 19:16, 12 September 2022 (UTC)

Question from Hilal9695 on Help:Getting started (19:12, 12 September 2022)
hello talk to me --Hilal9695 (talk) 19:12, 12 September 2022 (UTC)
 * This is not a chatroom; Michael has not edited, yet, today and might not reply for some time. Chris Troutman  ( talk ) 19:17, 12 September 2022 (UTC)
 * @Hilal9695 Hello Hilal and welcome to Wikipedia. You seem determined to create an article about Syed Hilal Mujeebi Razzaqui. May I ask if this is you and you are aiming for an autobiography? There are some important considerations you should be aware of. It is Wikipedia policy that all biographies of living people be fully backed up by inline citations that confirm all factual statements from already-published relaible sources. Please read all the linked advice before proceeding and also why writing about yourself is rarely sensible. If I have misunderstood what you are trying to do, then please tell me more and ask any additional questions by posting again here. Mike Turnbull (talk) 10:21, 13 September 2022 (UTC)

Question from Rukie.5 (22:11, 18 September 2022)
how was namibia coloniized --Rukie.5 (talk) 22:12, 18 September 2022 (UTC)


 * Hello @Rukie.5 and welcome to Wikipedia editing. That's not really the sort of question which the mentorship scheme is intended for. I'm here to help you learn how to contribute to the encyclopaedia and in a moment I'll add some items to your Talk Page with links that you should read. As to Namibia, it was colonized by the Germans in 1884, when it was know as German South West Africa. Mike Turnbull (talk) 13:08, 19 September 2022 (UTC)

Identifying DOI's
I've been searching for about an hour now looking for the DOI for this PDF file https://www.nordiskakvalitetspooler.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/11-Liners-No-Prices1.pdf and I can't seem to find any information about its DOI, I'm using crossref.org in order to find its DOI since that's what came up when I searched "how to identify a PDF's DOI" (which is how I get this information). Is there anything helpful in particular I can do to find this PDF's DOI? Because I'm using it as a reference for Draft:Sun_sorb but I think I managed to get the other reference's into place correctly. Yours sincerely Rugoconites Tenuirugosus (talk) 19:03, 19 September 2022 (UTC)


 * @Rugoconites Tenuirugosus That's not the sort of document that has a DOI, as it is part of a manufacturer's catalogue, not a journal or book. Based on the manufacturer's name, I think it is an old and out-of-date publication, since I don't see it on their UK website located here. Looking at your draft, I think you will have a hard time persuading the reviewers that the topic is notable, since to do that you need citations from WP:INDEPENDENT sources, which manufacturers obviously are not. Also, your image may be subject to copyright issues since you seem to have grabbed it from a website. Mike Turnbull (talk) 10:14, 20 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Alright, thank you for the information. Rugoconites Tenuirugosus (talk) 15:38, 20 September 2022 (UTC)
 * I've found out that "SUN POOL PRODUCTS" (which are the makers of the 'Sun sorb') have their own website, the link to the Sun Sorb page is https://sunpoolproducts.com/sun-sorb. Could this be used as a reliable source? Since it's the website made by the company that make the Sun Sorbs. Rugoconites Tenuirugosus (talk) 19:47, 21 September 2022 (UTC)
 * @Rugoconites Tenuirugosus Yes, we can cite such websites as reliable for simple facts about their products BUT they are obviously not WP:INDEPENDENT so don't help establish the notability of the product. Also, note that they are claiming copyright for all the contents of the website such as the images, as I would expect. Mike Turnbull (talk) 21:15, 21 September 2022 (UTC)

Question from La-provence-wood on User:La-provence-wood (12:10, 27 December 2021)
I need some help in getting this article published. Let me know what I need to do to format it correctly and get it right for Wikipedia. When I try to publish it I can’t find it online. Let me know how to best process it so it can be published. Thanks! --La-provence-wood (talk) 12:10, 27 December 2021 (UTC)
 * You have made a bit of a mess, which is not surprising because you are a new editor here and you have plunged straight in to try to create an article, which is incredibly difficult until you've learned the ropes: a bit like trying to compose a symphony before you've learned how to play any musical instrument. Firstly, you need to "blank" your own User Page at User:La-provence-wood. That's not a place to draft a new article, just a place to tell other editors here how you intend to contribute to the encyclopaedia (see WP:USER). Before doing that, you need to incorporate any of the useful stuff from that page (e.g. the references) into the draft article at Draft:Paul Stephen Boyington, which you don't seem to have touched for nearly two months. That is the correct location for new articles that are to be considered for inclusion in Wikipedia and the only place you should continue to add material about him. Once the draft is ready for review, there is a button to submit it. I also notice that you have other part-drafts at User:La-provence-wood/sandbox and User:La-provence-wood/Sample page, which is why I'm calling this a mess! Stick to the single draft and make edits there to progressively develop it. Be aware that you are trying to write about a living person and as such you MUST meet all the rules stated at WP:BLP, especially the one that says All quotations and any material challenged or likely to be challenged must be supported by an inline citation to a reliable, published source. I will add some general links to your Talk Page at User talk:La-provence-wood which includes help on this.
 * Next, a word about publication. You will have seen how you need to use the "Publish changes" button to save what you have written on to the page you are editing. The word "publish" is not used in the sense that what you have written will end up being indexed by search engines like Google. Talk pages, sandboxes and draft space are not indexed by these search engines; only articles in Main Space (the actual encyclopaedia) get indexed. The meaning of "publish" is that what you have saved can be found by anyone who knows where to look: in your case I found everything you had done by navigating to Special:Contributions/La-provence-wood and I could click onto each page from there.
 * Finally, some advice that you may not like. Postpone trying to get the draft about PSB accepted for at least several weeks. Meanwhile try to improve some of the 6 million+ articles already available, perhaps looking at those in topic areas that interest you. That way, you'll learn how things work here and may even enjoy making contributions. Persisting with a draft that doesn't meet the expected standards is likely to be very frustrating as the experienced editors who review new material (I'm not one of them) can be quite harsh. Good luck! Mike Turnbull (talk) 12:53, 27 December 2021 (UTC)
 * @Michael D. Turnbull, that user page User:La-provence-wood still contains the article/biography draft. 71.228.112.175 (talk) 06:00, 2 July 2022 (UTC)
 * @IP editor. That's not really my problem to fix. The editor in question has made no edits at all since December 2021 and may have abandoned their account. Mike Turnbull (talk) 12:40, 2 July 2022 (UTC)
 * @Michael D. Turnbull Should one of us blank that user page? David10244 (talk) 06:14, 27 October 2022 (UTC)
 * @David10244 We are not an admins, so the most we can do is blank the page but the information would still be present in the page history. I can't see the point of doing that: the page in question would be better if in a sandbox or as a draft but it's not doing much harm where it is and in general it is bad etiquette to touch other editor's User Pages without their consent (see WP:NOBAN). If you felt someone's page was so bad that it should be dealt with by an admin, you would have to contact one of those either directly on their own Talk Page or via, say, the Teahouse. Mike Turnbull (talk) 10:47, 27 October 2022 (UTC)
 * @Michael D. Turnbull I'll leave it; thanks for clarifying the policy.   I see notes that some editors will blank a user page,  but from what you said, I presume they are admins. David10244 (talk) 03:56, 28 October 2022 (UTC)

Question from ArtFace12 (07:19, 29 October 2022)
I've created a mini wikipedia page, but it hasn't launched it on tge internet. --ArtFace12 (talk) 07:19, 29 October 2022 (UTC)


 * @ArtFace12 Hi, and welcome to Wikipedia editing. I assume that you are Joey Lowe since that's what you say on your User Page. It is acceptable to tell other Wikipedia editors about yourself and what area of the encyclopaedia you intend to contribute to on such a page: see WP:UPYES for the details of what can be placed there. On the other hand Draft:Joey Lowe is totally unacceptable as a potential article (not "page") for inclusion in the main encyclopaedia. We frown on autobiograpy (please read that link for why) and there is an absolute requirement that any biography of a living person follow the policies at WP:BLP, which means they must have inline citations to relaible sources so that readers can verify all the facts stated. Wikipedia is a serious project and is not social media as is explained at WP:NOT. Please stick to adding information on topics about which you are knowledgeable and interested and you should enjoy contributing. In a moment, I'll add some links on your Talk Page which will assist you in understanding how to go about things. Good luck. Mike Turnbull (talk) 12:42, 29 October 2022 (UTC)

Question from Marleeashton (05:03, 30 October 2022)
Hi!

So I was wondering about the process of adding logos to state agencies - I can't find any that have creative commons licenses but I'd think that it would be implied given that it's a publicly owned government type of deal.. would it be ok to upload something like this to wikimedia commons? --Marleeashton (talk) 05:03, 30 October 2022 (UTC)


 * Hi @Marleeashton. The main guidance on logos is given at WP:LOGOS. Some are entirely free of restrictions (as explained at that link) and others can be used on the English Wikipedia under our fair use provisions. To give better advice, I'd need to see which specific logo you have in mind, and for which article. Can you provide a link to a URL which includes the logo? Mike Turnbull (talk) 13:13, 30 October 2022 (UTC)

Here’s the link,

https://scc.ca.gov

It’s just under the ca.gov icon.

Hoping to add it to california coastal conservancy

Checking out the guidance on that page now. Thank you! Marleeashton (talk) 02:27, 31 October 2022 (UTC)


 * @Marleeashton For the article California Coastal Conservancy that logo certainly can't be uploaded to Commons since it is more than simple text: the bit that looks like a wave is a part of the design. Hence you'll have to go via WP:NONFREE: follow the process outlined at WP:LOGOS carefully and you should be fine. Mike Turnbull (talk) 11:52, 31 October 2022 (UTC)
 * sounds good, thanks for the help! Marleeashton (talk) 21:16, 31 October 2022 (UTC)

Question from Ashhwoodd (15:53, 8 November 2022)
what are some good things to add to an article? --Ashhwoodd (talk) 15:53, 8 November 2022 (UTC)


 * @Ashhwoodd That's rather too general a question to have a simple answer. Start by reading WP:42. Then take a look at some topics you already know something about and ask yourself "has Wikipedia covered this in sufficient detail that a reader gets a useful basic introduction?". If the answer is "no", then try to improve the article without adding things that you think you know: we only allow additions that are sourced to already-published material. Ask me again here on my Talk Page if you need further help, and enjoy the experience of contributing to the world's biggest repository of reliable information. Mike Turnbull (talk) 16:08, 8 November 2022 (UTC)

Question from Jcjbishop on Alf Bishop (footballer, born 1886) (16:44, 2 June 2022)
hello, I want to change the title of this page however the I cannot find the move function. --Jcjbishop (talk) 16:44, 2 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Hi and welcome to Wikipedia. You won't have the "move" function available until you have more days+edits to your name (I forget exactly how many!). I suggest you use the Talk Page of the article at Talk:Alf Bishop (footballer, born 1886) to make the suggestion of why you think the page should be moved, pinging a few of the other editors who have contributed to that article in the past to see if you can get a consensus for the move to your suggested title. One of the reasons the page has this title is that there is also an Alf Bishop (footballer, born 1902) and another Alf Bishop (see disambiguation page linked). Mike Turnbull (talk) 17:31, 2 June 2022 (UTC)
 * I see now that your reason for wanting to move the article to a new title was because the old one had the incorrect date of birth, which (assuming the 1884 date is correct, which is NOT what the article linked in the external links section says!) would not have been controversial. Anyway, you seem to have done the move correctly now, so well done for that.... are you by any chance a descendant of his? I would caution that you need to provide sources for anything you add to the article, as things you "know" from, say, family connections are not allowed: we call that "original research" and Wikipedia has strict rules to forbid that (see WP:NOR). It must be possible for readers to WP:Verify everything by reading the quoted published sources. Mike Turnbull (talk) 09:06, 3 June 2022 (UTC)

Hi Mike, I am Alfs great grandson and everything I have written on his page is true. Recently I have been contacting all of his former clubs and they have given me all of his appearances, goals and career moments. A few of the personal details in his early life have been passed down through my family. I will attempt to quote everything I can Jcjbishop (talk) 10:46, 3 June 2022 (UTC)
 * A couple of stylistic comments on the article. First, you need to pay attention to WP:LEAD which emphasises that the first part (before the contents box) should summarise the important points from the main article and not be the sole place where something is mentioned. I'm not sure why you don't simply use the past tense: I find the repeated use of phrases such as "he would retire from football in 1921" (my emphasis) odd when you can just say "he retired...", or "which would be his final season" instead of "which was....". Finally, given that the article has had no readers at all in the past 90 days (excepting us very recently), it is no big deal but please be aware that you have a conflict of interest which you should really declare on the article's Talk Page. Wikipedia is (to some people's surprise) more interested in what can be verified than it is on the WP:TRUTH. I suggest you read these linked pages carefully. I hope you will continue to contribute to other topics about which you are interested. Mike Turnbull (talk) 14:05, 3 June 2022 (UTC)
 * @Michael D. Turnbull Hello, I was stalking the talk pages of a few editors I respect, such as you, based on answers on the help desks etc. I see that this article discussed here, Alf_Bishop_(footballer,_born_1884), has only 2 inline citations and one general reference.  After the editor said everything I have written on his page is true ... I have been contacting all of his former clubs and they have given me all of his appearances, goals and career moments. A few of the personal details in his early life have been passed down through my family, it looks like he failed to take your advice.  I'm fairly new; should I  do anything?  Feel free, of course, to take any action you think is right.  Thanks. David10244 (talk) 06:32, 27 October 2022 (UTC)
 * @David10244 I can't say whether the information in that article is extracted from the ENFA archive, which is paywalled, or was what we call original research (not allowed). The article itself gets only about 2 views a day, suggesting it is not very important but it is hardly controversial and would probably survive a deletion discussion. You could take up any concerns directly with Jcjbishop via their Talk Page or the article's Talk Page. Mike Turnbull (talk) 10:56, 27 October 2022 (UTC)
 * I'll leave that alone too; it just doesn't look right with so few inline citations. I'm sure it won't be accepted like that. David10244 (talk) 03:59, 28 October 2022 (UTC)
 * @David10244 The article has been in mainspace since 2008. The discussion here on my Talk Page relates to it being improved by his great grandson recently. Mike Turnbull (talk) 10:20, 28 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Oh, obviously, you are right. I don't know how I missed that. David10244 (talk) 06:17, 10 November 2022 (UTC)

The imdb issue we discussed
Help_desk/Archives/2022_February_9. I asked for more opinions at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Film/Archive_79. I'm going to start removing some, if you want to join in, please do. It's not pressing. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 12:43, 21 February 2022 (UTC)

I'm starting with imdbname using, you could start with imdbtitle if you want. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 12:48, 21 February 2022 (UTC)
 * Yes,, I'll do the imdbtitles, although I may not be able to do many for a couple of days owing to other commitments. Mike Turnbull (talk) 17:38, 21 February 2022 (UTC)
 * I don't plan on working very quickly myself. Sometimes there's 1, sometimes there's 40. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 18:06, 21 February 2022 (UTC)
 * There are times when it's reasonable to convert an EL to a ref, but imdb is almost never a good ref on WP. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 15:37, 22 February 2022 (UTC)
 * Yes,, I'm becoming more aggressive as I gain some experience with these and may revisit a few I've already looked at. Mike Turnbull (talk) 18:18, 22 February 2022 (UTC)
 * I've come across a few like with a lot of imdb-links and the basic thought seems to be that these are the next best thing to a wikilink. I think it's mostly a leftover from earlier WP-thinking, those links were in the article in 2012. What I haven't been doing when removing is checking if there is a corresponding WP-article today. There may be some tool around that can suggest wikilinks, but it's nothing I have used. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 08:59, 23 February 2022 (UTC)
 * This was an interesting version. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 19:39, 23 February 2022 (UTC)

By accident, when I was working on this diff I realised that there is a IMDb name template which renders names as proper external links and the corresponding IMDb episode one for titles. So Robert Roldan, rendering as Robert Roldan can be converted to , rendering as. That template is already used on ~ 145,000 pages, so I don't think we can expunge it but we can certainly make our current clean-up easier if it is appropriate to keep the IMDb link. Mike Turnbull (talk) 13:07, 24 February 2022 (UTC)


 * Yeah, those are what should be used in the EL-section, I've converted a few I found there too. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 13:51, 24 February 2022 (UTC)
 * I'm pleased to report that, following a few days of intense work, I've repaired all the imdb title issues with the exception of this mess I'm still working on. I'll move on to assisting you with the names. Mike Turnbull (talk) 10:52, 8 March 2022 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the notice! I've been distracted from "my" list lately, but end is in sight. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 14:06, 8 March 2022 (UTC)
 * Just to say that all are ✅ now. I've put the query links at the top of this section so I can check for future problems as they occur. Do you think we should include the "done" into the archive pages (probably against archive policy?) for others to note, or report the clean-up elsewhere? It would be nice to know why the imdbname stuff works and how to stop it working, as the equivalent template versions seem perfectly acceptable for anyone who really needs them. Mike Turnbull (talk) 14:33, 10 March 2022 (UTC)
 * Thanks for good cooperation (as in doing most of the work). After reading your message I checked, and found 2 new ones I dealt with. My understanding of Help_desk/Archives/2022_February_9 is that this is not a WP thing, it's a MediaWiki thing, and may actually have legit uses elsewhere, though here it just seems annoying. If I made my own wiki about something, perhaps I'd think they were just dandy. Possibly other WP:s don't have our EL rules, and editors bring their habits to en-WP.
 * I'm afraid I don't get "include the "done" into the archive pages" perhaps you could show me with a test edit? On reporting, we could mention it at WP:FILM and WP:TV, perhaps add something at Citing_IMDb? Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 15:12, 10 March 2022 (UTC)
 * I just meant that I could add a statement that we had fixed all the instances found to date on the page Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Film/Archive_79. However, your idea is much better, . By placing something in that essay, we can hope people will take note and can quote it ourselves when we gently chide folk on their talk page for continuing to use this sort of link ;-) Will you make the addition? Mike Turnbull (talk) 15:23, 10 March 2022 (UTC)
 * Ah! I'll do it, we'll see what happens. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 15:28, 10 March 2022 (UTC)
 * Btw, did you get any talkback/pushback while doing this? I've had none. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 11:32, 29 March 2022 (UTC)
 * No I think there was one case only of a revert, where I subsequently explained why we were doing what we were doing and in several other cases people clicked to "Thank" me for the edits. Overall a very useful exercise. I did end up wondering why Wikipedia hosts so many poor articles about movies and movie "stars". IMDb itself may be a better place for a lot of this (i.e. if it were up to me I'd make our notability requirements much stronger, or at least apply them more strictly). Mike Turnbull (talk) 11:46, 29 March 2022 (UTC)

OMG! There are literally dozens of imdbtitle instances again now (see search 2 above in this section). There was just one imdbname when I checked, which I fixed today. I'll restart the name cleanup asap: do you want to help? This time I think we'll need to post some sort of message on the Talk Page of anyone we notice has done this more than once in the current set. I'll compose something and post it here for you to copy if you like.... Mike Turnbull (talk) 17:45, 11 May 2022 (UTC)

Suggested notification:

Hello! Please stop using the imdbtitle link as I noticed you did at foo. The reasons for not using that type of link are explained at WT:WikiProject_Film/Archive 79. There is a template imdb title which can be used in the external links section of articles. Thanks. Mike Turnbull (talk) 17:53, 11 May 2022 (UTC)


 * Yep 4 dozens atm. Sure, I'll dig in. Message looks good. There's also WP:IMDB/BLP but it's not as explanatory. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 17:59, 11 May 2022 (UTC)
 * OK, Well ✅! Now I'm going to bed.... Mike Turnbull (talk) 21:56, 11 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Possibly something else to comb through:. Some like adding spotify in a similar manner to imdbtitel, but at least they show as EL. Still, yuk. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 20:53, 11 May 2022 (UTC)
 * We'll have to find a bigger comb! I looked at the first example Heavyweight (podcast) and it alone has a huge set of open.spotify references. I think we (i.e. you!) need to raise the issue elsewhere. I looked at the archive in WP:RSN and couldn't find anything specific, although there were some comments about Spotify in general. Mike Turnbull (talk) 22:01, 11 May 2022 (UTC)
 * If you check my edithistory today you'll see I found a real imdb-enthusiast. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 08:38, 12 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Also Reliable_sources/Noticeboard. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 08:46, 12 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Interesting that after you raised this at the RSN, User:Citation bot cleaned up Heavyweight (podcast) in this diff so that it no longer appears on your hitlist. So invoking that on the pages in question will remove most if not all of the problems. I'll try Anders (singer) in a moment to see if this works there.... Yup, it did! Mike Turnbull (talk) 12:26, 14 May 2022 (UTC)
 * It doesn't work with them all but the worst ones (the totally bare URL within a citation) are tidied up fairly well. Where the bot fails, it does nothing and the article will still be on your hitlist. There may be a case for doing a dummy edit to indicate in the page history that the bot was tried and further action is still needed. Mike Turnbull (talk) 13:23, 14 May 2022 (UTC)

Slightly off-topic, but I'm learning some interesting search-fu at Help_desk. Apparently Trappist the monk is the one to ask. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 14:05, 16 May 2022 (UTC)

Just killed another dozen. Interestingly, this worked. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 16:18, 25 May 2022 (UTC)


 * Thanks, . I had by coincidence checked for them today and was going to go on a purge this evening. So now I'll have to do something else :-) Mike Turnbull (talk) 19:22, 25 May 2022 (UTC)
 * I'm guessing you're also trimming these now and then. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 15:43, 17 November 2022 (UTC)
 * @Gråbergs Gråa Sång Yes, I continue to take a look at the search output every now and again when I feel like it: see my User Page. I assume you are doing the same but no worries if not.... Mike Turnbull (talk) 15:49, 17 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Ah. I have actually been going to this thread when I wanted those links. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 19:31, 17 November 2022 (UTC)

Question from Goldendragonfly77 (18:22, 27 November 2022)
Hi,

How do I edit my text? I am very new here and may be missing something. I see suggestions, but when I go to edit it only shows the name...

Thank you --Goldendragonfly77 (talk) 18:22, 27 November 2022 (UTC)

Question from Goldendragonfly77 (18:49, 27 November 2022)
Hello again,

I think I figured it out. But appreciate your mentorship as I learn the ropes here.

Best

Melissa --Goldendragonfly77 (talk) 18:49, 27 November 2022 (UTC)


 * Hi @Melissa and welcome to Wikipedia editing. In a few minutes I'll place some general advice on your Talk Page so you'll have it handy. I see that you a put a bit of a biography on your User page. That's fine but note that User Pages are not supposed to be just autobiographies but rather should say a bit about what we hope to do as Wikipedia editors. There's more guidance at the link WP:UPYES. Don't think of that page as a draft article about yourself: apart from anything else it won't be indexed by search engines and doesn't follow the very strict rules for real articles about living people given at WP:BLP. By all means add any more questions you would like me to answer by adding to this section of my Talk Page (no need to have new sections for each continuing conversation). Mike Turnbull (talk) 13:16, 28 November 2022 (UTC)

That diagram....


Hi Mr Turnbull, I hope this finds you well. You previously commented on my thread at the help desk. Well, here is the diagram. I just wanted a second opinion, have I satisfied the requirements of MOS:CSDG? Thank you. X750. Spin a yarn? Articles I've screwed over? 03:53, 27 November 2022 (UTC)


 * Hi @X750. I'm going to be a bit picky, since many people would be quite happy with the diagram and it looks quite good even at small scale. The only real chemical issue is that diazo compounds are linear, not bent (see the parent diazomethane article). In some drawings, chemists hedge their bets by using =N2 but if you are going to draw the group out it should be =N+=N- in a straight line. Triphenyl phosphine is tricky because it is so large to draw despite not doing much more than removing an oxygen atom. So I might have been tempted to write (C6H5)3P on the left and (C6H5)3P=O on the right, especially since you chose that sort of representation for toluene on the arrow and have used "Pc" as text to indicate the phthalocyanine part (which you should certainly not draw, especially since you are placing the whole diagram in an article about Iron(II) phthalocyanine). A couple of other points (now I'm being really picky!): the arrow needs to be big enough that it covers the widest text below it, which means in this case it is worth giving it more space overall. Finally, in the article, the convention is not to use a thumbnail as that can be difficult to read but instead to place a colon before the filename and set its width in pixels. See my source code for how I've done that below.
 * FePcCat.svg
 * I commented at the Teahouse that there can be text before or after the diagram that serves as a sort of caption. In this case, I'd ignore the part where you say "within diatomic nitrogen atmosphere and toluene solution" since chemists can see these in the diagrams and non-chemists will wonder "what other sort of nitrogen is there?". Mike Turnbull (talk) 15:38, 27 November 2022 (UTC)
 * No problem with being picky, do it once do it right. Thank you for those points, I'll get onto it. X750. Spin a yarn? Articles I've screwed over? 16:31, 27 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Hi Mr Turnbull, I've uploaded a new version of the svg. Has it taken your concerns into account? Also, I can't figure out how to draw N2 without there being a pink box (in ChemSketch) around it for some reason... if you know how that'd be swell too. X750. Spin a yarn? Articles I've screwed over? 01:53, 28 November 2022 (UTC)
 * @X750 The drawing was perfect but I made one more change and uploaded the new version over your previous one so you can see the difference. The first change was to use Inkscape's File/Document Properties/Resize page to drawing menu in order to add a 10px border around the whole thing. It doesn't matter about having a border when the image is used as we've got it here but it makes a big difference in thumbnails as your previous version had no white space and the thumbnail frame bashes into the picture. Secondly, and related, I used the instruction  instead of  in the second line of the .svg file. This ensures that the file will automatically scale to fill the available browser window allocated to it. Compare what you'll get by clicking on your previous version on Commons: this opens your file as a fixed-width picture top left in the browser. My version expands the image to fill the browser window. These are minor changes but I think are improvements. I don't know why you are getting the pink box in ChemSketch but I'll post here again if I find an answer. Mike Turnbull (talk) 13:03, 28 November 2022 (UTC)
 * I see the changes you've made, I'll incorporate it into my other svgs I've uploaded and any future uploads. Please working with you as always. X750. Spin a yarn? Articles I've screwed over? 16:30, 28 November 2022 (UTC)

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Citations in article University of Hamburg
Michael D. Turnball, how I can add citations in this article? Previous edits has been reverted (as unconstructive).

85.109.136.232 (talk) 20:49, 2 December 2022 (UTC)


 * (Note that my name is Turnbull, not Turnball but please just call me Mike). What exactly do you want to cite? Please give the details here in this thread and I'll help you prepare the information + citation ready to add to the article. Mike Turnbull (talk) 21:54, 2 December 2022 (UTC)

Citations in the article about Biology
Mike, how I edit articles about Biology?

For example, the article about Saccharomyces cerevisiae!

85.109.136.232 (talk) 21:59, 2 December 2022 (UTC)


 * You edit those articles just like any others. However, before you do any such editing, please note that competence is required and it would be better if you continued to discuss your plans here on my Talk Page. Mike Turnbull (talk) 22:06, 2 December 2022 (UTC)

Reply?
Michael D. Turnball! I think that p-Anisidine, like all moderately toxic substances, is considered harmful or fatal if swallowed (I have read article Toxicity class.

On the second hand, I think that p-Anisidine is considered fatal if swallowed - due its carcinogenicity!

85.109.136.232 (talk) 21:54, 2 December 2022 (UTC)


 * Let's not worry about what you think and stick to what you and I write into articles on Wikipedia. We should not write harmful or fatal if swallowed because that's not either source says and is thus considered WP:SYNTHESIS. Mike Turnbull (talk) 22:00, 2 December 2022 (UTC)

Question from BarbaryTeardrop (23:53, 12 December 2022)
Hello. I'm an academic publishing a scholarly book that includes a screenshot of a section of a Wikipedia page. The section has disappeared since I took the screenshot, and I'm trying to find out why (mostly out of curiosity: stumbling upon the now-deleted section is an important crux in the book because it really rattled me). I've tried searching the edit history but can't decipher it, and I don't seem to have an option to contact the person who has done the most editing of it in recent history. I'd be grateful for any advice you have. The page in question is "Space Shuttle Columbia disaster." Many thanks. --BarbaryTeardrop (talk) 23:53, 12 December 2022 (UTC)


 * @BarbaryTeardrop It should be fairly easy to find the version of the article Space Shuttle Columbia disaster by reference back to your screenshot. The key will be to know when you screen-grabbed it: can you provide that date from the timestamp on the file? If not, I can do a search based on a portion of the text, if you could type that back into this thread. The best portion to use would be one that has changed considerably between then and now in a given section of the article. I'm intrigued as to why the screenshot is "an important crux in the book": are you making some point about Wikipedia or about the investigation of the disaster? One key general guidance is that Wikipedia is not a reliable source (please read the linked essay) but everything stated in an article should be cited to somewhere that is a reliable source and it is the latter that an academic should be tracking down. Mike Turnbull (talk) 11:00, 13 December 2022 (UTC)

Question from Garytzahnow (23:56, 11 December 2022)
Hello, I need help with adding my name to the several movies I've been in, who else will add my own name? I've tried, but don't know the ins and outs on wikipedia. I'm not self promoting, or abusing the system, please help, thank you. Gary Zahnow --Garytzahnow (talk) 23:56, 11 December 2022 (UTC)
 * If you are adding your own name, is that not self-promotion? Chris Troutman  ( talk ) 01:25, 12 December 2022 (UTC)
 * @Garytzahnow Your own Talk Page at User talk:Garytzahnow already has a lot of advice and I have little to add. The edit request mechanism, via the Talk Page of any relevant article is the only way you can legitimately have the information added and this will only happen if you provide a source reference that is reliable and independent of you, for example a review of the movie which mentions you but is not based on an interview. Please read the links I have provided for extra details and note that IMDb is not considered a reliable source for Wikipedia. Mike Turnbull (talk) 11:48, 12 December 2022 (UTC)
 * I don't have information that was 45 years ago, nor do I know where, or whom I'd get that information from. (Do you honestly think they keep records of all extras & bit part actors?) I was cast as an actor as a young lieutenant for 3 weeks, where I was involved in bloody battle scenes, bar scenes & a ballroom scene as an extra/ bit player. <"Young Joe the Forgotten Kennedy, filmed in Pioneer Square, Seattle, Wa. 1976-77) There are 10 other films of mine & I deserve respect for being in them, and they should all be listed.
 * On IMDB I've been added to the cast list, and many of the movies I've been in are listed there. Again, I am not self promoting, I'd just like my name added to all my movies, that's all...."is that too much to ask for?" Who else will add my name in these movies?
 * I've contributed money toward wikipedia in the past. How do I get my own page? Merry Christmas & Happy New Year 2023,Gary Zahnow Garytzahnow (talk) 00:12, 13 December 2022 (UTC)
 * @Garytzahnow If you can't find a source of information that you wish to add to a Wikipedia article (any article, not just about films) then it can't go in because there is a fundamental policy of verifiabliity: readers must be able to check that what the encyclopaedia says is accurate. If the only reason you have created an account here is because you want to include material about yourself, then I'm afraid you have come to the wrong place. Why not contribute on other topics you are knowledgeable about and you may find you actually enjoy it here! That would in many ways be a better thing to do than contribute money, since the WMF is not short of cash but is short of willing and competent volunteers as editors. Merry Christmas & Happy New Year 2023 to you also. Mike Turnbull (talk) 11:19, 13 December 2022 (UTC)

God Jul!
Happy Holidays text.png Hello Michael D. Turnbull: Enjoy the holiday season&#32;and winter solstice if it's occurring in your area of the world, and thanks for your work to maintain, improve and expand Wikipedia. Cheers, Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 13:37, 21 December 2022 (UTC) Spread the WikiLove; use {{subst:Season's Greetings}} to send this message Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 13:37, 21 December 2022 (UTC)