User talk:Michellecrisp/Archive 6

Miranda Devine
I have reverted some additions you made to this page. It can be reinstated if it is better worded and referenced. See talk page of the article for further discussion. Thanks.Recurring dreams 08:15, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

Welcome to WP, Old Falconians
Hi there,

Do you have any particular interest in the List of Old Falconians or are you just cruising by? I ask because I am interested in sending it to WP:GA for approval once it has sufficient citations. Grumpyyoungman01 02:59, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

Vandalism
Your changes to Old Falconians amount to vandalism of site because they are totally wrong. You should not meddle with things you do not understand 1 Rodney Marks is a hoaxer but not in itself a hoax. There are plenty of net hite to quickly establish this fact. So why do you not research it? 2. Tony Steele. Only NSW cricketer??? Again lack of research leads to ignorance! Go to your local library. Find Pollards list of ALL Australian cricketers. Name of Tony Steele is there. It is official. So are you going to reinstate it? ```` —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 144.133.198.32 (talk) 01:35, 25 April 2007 (UTC).
 * dear Mr unsigned, Wikipedia relies on citated evidence. such beligerent tone of comment is not appreciated on Wikipedia "you do not understand". Accusation of vandalism is not following Good faith principles of Wikipedia. please reveal your real identity. secondly we need evidence that these people attended North Sydney Boys, they may be real but no citated evidence exists to say they went there. Tony Steele has never ever represented Australia: http://content-aus.cricinfo.com/australia/content/player/7672.html I do not believe if you've only represented the state for a few matches is notable enough for Wikipedia. please check your facts Michellecrisp 03:26, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

Tony Steele
He did play cricket for Australia on a tour of NZ but not in a Test match. Refer to The Complete Illustrated History of Australian Cricket by Jack Pollard. Contact ACB if necessary. He is recognised as an Australian international cricketer but NOT a Test plater. The wording of entry was careful to make this distinction. That seems to have eluded you!144.133.198.32 07:23, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

Tony Steele
Could you please remove the dubious tag. I have given you 2 precise references. Have you not checked them out or contacted ACB or Balmain-UTS Club? Here's the third reference! Tony was my personal friend, class mate and for a while after school kept in touch. His career was a matter of intense interest to me. You are correct: he was never a Test player or a ODI man. But do you not know there is a third category? I have already told you this. Tony went on a tour of NZ with the Australian XI earning a baggy green cap but not playing a Test Match. That still earns international status. Perhaps you have not heard of this before in cricket but it is very common in Rugby Union. There are dozens of Wallabies who have never played a Test. Off the top of my head here's a few: David Dix, Greg Burrow, Sean Spence, Andy Town. There are these days still an occasional junior player on an extended Australian cricket tour who does not play a Test or ODI but does play, for example, against an English county side. Such a person is in the same category as Tony Steele. That is, an Australian international cricketer but not a Test or ODI player. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 144.133.198.32 (talk) 04:50, 2 May 2007 (UTC).

Tony Steele
Another cricketer in same position as Tony is Alan Walker from Manly Club in late 1940s. In fact, Alan is feted as a dual international for Australia in cricket and Rugby Union (5 Tests). But in cricket he toured England without playing a Test. He played against county sides. (There are others in this category). Until recently, Alan was the only person ever to be such a dual international. But following a reclassification of Wallabies by ARU, Dr Otto Nothling also became a dual Australian international in cricket and Rugby Union. In days of Tony and Alan ODI status did not exist.

Not well known is that famous swimming coach Lawrie Lawrence is a Wallaby. In RU he is in same position as Tony in cricket. Both toured NZ with an Australian team but never played a Test and never represented Australia again.

The qualification to be an internatiional is to run onto the field for even one second. That is why so many reserves are coming on for the last 5 minutes of RU Tests! But a player selected for Australia who never gets on the field is not an international. Example in RU: Kevin O'Hara (personally confirmed to me by ARU HQ). Tony batted for Australia in NZ and I in Australia was reading his scores in the press with avid interest! Are you saying I was dreaming the whole thing? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 144.133.198.32 (talk) 19:45, 2 May 2007 (UTC).

Dubious Item Now Verified
Result of taking book out of library: The Complete Illustrated History of Australian Cricket by Jack Pollard (Viking Press, 1995) states at p. 437: "An Australian 'B' team returned this visit by playing eight matches in New Zealand in February and March 1970, under the captaincy of Sam Trimble. The Australian team was S. C. Trimble, G. S. Chappell, G. R. Davies, A. Turner, R. J. Inverarity, G. D. Watson, J. A. Steele, J. A. MacLean, D. Chadwick, T. J. Jenner, D.A. Renneberg, A. L. Thomson, D. K. Lillee and K. J. O'Keeffe." 144.133.198.32 19:56, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

Tony Steele discussion at WikiProject Cricket
Hi Michelle, please see Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Cricket and scroll down to a discussion I have started. Grumpyyoungman01 01:09, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

"If Wikipedia is consistent then everyone who represented Aust or NZ at Aus A or NZ B needs to be included in wikipedia." - Wrong. They all need to be eligible to be included, but Wikipedia is not collectively exhaustive, it only aims to be. Grumpyyoungman01 12:43, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

Cricketer independently verified
Hi Michelle, there has already been an independent consensus that Steele be included on the list. See here, Steele also now has his own article, which was not created by Steele's friend Bob (anon). He is legitimately on the list and I think the only thing that you could insist upon is Steele being referred to as an A class player and not an international player. But an independent editor from the Crikect project has asserted that it is fair to call him an international player, see Nick Mallory's comment down the bottom of the section, he said it was ok to change it back to "international" and that is what Bob has done. Grumpyyoungman01 03:07, 18 May 2007 (UTC)
 * thanks for that. I agree with the finding but not Anon's insistence that Tony Steele is an international player. Michellecrisp 03:12, 18 May 2007 (UTC)


 * I personally think that it would be better for him to be called A-class and not 'international'. But I don't know enough about cricket to have a firm opinion. When I asked for help on the WikiProject Cricket site before they were really helpful and efficient. That is the place that you would need to go to to get an independent consensus as the matter won't be resolved just between yourself and Bob. Grumpyyoungman01 03:17, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

Professor Tickle
Needs evidence he is Old Falconian! Now that is a challenge seeing he was one of early pupils and today only I remember him. But all is not lost. I have booked an appointment at school archive room to obtain his number on Entry Roll Plus some others 144.133.198.32 11:30, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

Standard of evidence
I would like to make a point with you (especially after matter of Tony Steele). My standard is far higher than Wikipedias. I could claim Peter Finch, Oscar-winning actor, was OF. Numerous citations including SMH and Finch himself. But false. And Australian Dictionary of Biography states Blair Wark VC was at North Sydney High. Again false. So my position with Steele arose from the deepest conviction not past friendship. Cheers (and apologies for perhaps stirring you up a little earlier) 144.133.198.32 11:39, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

notability changes
I am not threatening or anything like that. I had a look at what you have said on the talk page and it all seemed sensible. - Grumpyyoungman01 06:41, 24 May 2007 (UTC)


 * no offence taken. Michellecrisp 06:42, 24 May 2007 (UTC)