User talk:Mick gold/Archive 1

Your VandalProof Application
Dear Mick gold,

Thank you for applying for VandalProof! (VP). As you may know, VP is a very powerful program, and in fact the just released 1.3 version has even more power. Because of this we must uphold strict protocols before approving a new applicant. Regretfully, I have chosen to decline your application at this time. The reason for this is that not enough mainspace edits. Please note it is nothing personal by any means, and we certainly welcome you to apply again soon. Thank you for your interest in VandalProof. Computerjoe 's talk 15:04, 14 September 2006 (UTC)
 * We generally say 250. Computerjoe 's talk 07:15, 15 September 2006 (UTC)
 * This page will tell you. I'll approve you considering you're only 7 off now :) Computerjoe 's talk 15:15, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

Welcome to VandalProof!
Thank you for your interest in VandalProof, Mick gold! You have now been added to the list of authorized users, so if you haven't already, simply download and install VandalProof from our main page. If you have any questions, please feel free to contact me or any other moderator, or you can post a message on the discussion page. Computerjoe 's talk 15:21, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

Re:Tipu Sultan spelling
Hi, I have replied on the your message on Wikiproject Karnataka. Hope this helps. -- Naveen  (talk) 07:01, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

Dylan and 'born again'
I'm bowing out of that fracas for now - just so you know, my point was not coming from a "we must protect christianity" POV - the other editor seems to have a hobby horse in this but if I do, it's absolutely not that one at all. But I think if we avoided the word "conversion" since it is loaded with implications, we might be better off. Also, the back and forth about whether he was Jewish, and bending it around into that his parents were Jewish is absurd too. He was Jewish, he was Christian for a time, he came back to Judaism - by all accounts. Not likely he went through anything formal, but that's what I'd look into if I were so inclined (like his autobiogs). Hard to argue with zealots. Tvoz | talk 16:26, 22 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Yeah - I'm pretty much convinced by your last edit, and I disassociate myself from the rants - my point is moot if there is independent characterization of it as a conversion, which your source seems to be. Haven't looked for this, but do we talk about his return to Judaism? Basically old Bob likes to try different things out, I think, and probably is vastly amused at these arguments, if he's aware.  I haven't read Chronicles yet -it's on my list though! Tvoz | talk 21:48, 22 April 2007 (UTC)
 * I think the new NYTimes quotes, added by Patsw are pretty good. I replied to your (User:Mick gold) earlier comment on my talk page. --Knulclunk 01:43, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Looks good to me. Sorry for my delay in getting back to you. Real life is keeping me busier than I would like right now! Thanks for all your efforts to source the material and quell editorial controversy on the page. Best Regards, Cleo123 05:28, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

Dylan, evidence of conversion
Oh, it was nothing. I'm very stubborn, and I never drop out of an argument, so that kept me going during the transcription (If only I had that stamina and commitment in college...).

I was actually on the lookout for the original "Behind the Shades" and "Wanted Man: In search of Bob Dylan". If you aren't in actual possession of the books which you've mentioned, I'll take a look at them and see if there are helpful parts which I can transcribe. --C.Logan 05:58, 29 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Lets hope. I feel like I've found the Holy Grail of Bob Dylan religious conversion argument sources- it includes, essentially, all the things which were missing in previous sources. Hopefully, both sides of the argument will be satisfied with this/these. Thanks for your encouragement and your support in this dispute, and thanks for your contribution of source material. --C.Logan 07:03, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

"Son of Jack Elliott"
Hi Mick, hope your'e well. I was wondering if you could shed any light on Dylan being billed as "Son of Jack Elliott" in Jack's article. I have never heard of, or seen this, anywhere other than in this article. Someone has linked it to a "source", but what was this - a flyer, poster outside a coffee house, Chapter? I don't know. As I'm sure you know, Dylan's first major N.Y. "Concert" was 12 April 1963 - I have a replica of the poster which reads thus: HAROLD LEVENTHAL Presents BOB DYLAN AT TOWN HALL '''FRI. EVE. APRIL 12th AT 8:30 PM. Tickets $3. $2.75. $2.50 On Sale at Box Office. No mention of Jack.

I would be very grateful for any light you may be able to shed on this matter. Cheers, Lion King 19:25, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

Hi Mick, thanks very much for your reply, I really appreciate it. That one has been bugging me for ages! The funny thing is, I had No Direction Home years ago, but loaned it out and of course, as per, it was never returned. It's the one where Dylan speaks to Shelton whilst on tour if I'm not mistaken - I'll have to lay my hands on another copy! Once again thanks for your time and trouble and for your prompt response. Best wishes, Lion King 08:20, 15 June 2007 (UTC) P.S. Thanks for the link to the Dylan talk page, I remember agreeing with you now! Lion King


 * I fully agree, I've left a note on Jack's talk page to see what transpires. If nothing is forthcoming, I'll remove the claim - does that sound fair? Cheers, Lion King 10:28, 15 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Mick, I've amended the Ramblin' Jack Elliott article. I would be greatful if you would please have a look, and if you can improve it, then by all means please do. Cheers! Lion King 14:31, 15 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Yes, good edit! Thanks for your help Mick. Cheers, Lion King 12:45, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

Lennon as atheist
I thinke the wording self descibed atheist works ok. Feel free to put it back or expierment with it. I just take exception to Flora's insistence that he believed in god or a higher power......Albion moonlight 08:37, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

Hammonds Folly
Thanks for making that edit. You did a better job than I would have done. Good Job.

Carolyn Hester's album
Thank you for rescuing me, Mick! I had gone through the whole "Relocation to NY" section, trying to improve the phrasing, as well as I could. I believe I had done an ok job mostly. That bit about Carolyn Hester and John Hammond gave me trouble: a lot of info squeezed into two run-on sentences. I have to admit I struggled, and knew I had left that bit only half fixed. I think you got it just right. Hult041956 17:44, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

Dylan's fan base
Footnotes; I dig. Should really have taken a closer look, but it seemed like a totally soulless and arbitrary list (lists are a pet peeve of mine on Wikipedia; I try to work on the protest songs page sometimes, but most people just contribute lists of protest songs, which does not an article make), but once the info's there I'm cool with it. however, apologies for ballsing up the references list.Warchef 15:59, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

Albert Grossman
Hi Mick, tag gone! Really good job, I knew I'd seen some of that before! I'm fine thanks, hope all's well with you. Best wishes, Lion King (talk) 15:44, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

Zweig country list
Thank you for the very good sort-out of the monstrosity which was the "list of 800 countries in which Stefan Zweig is still read"! :) Much much much better. 138.37.199.206 (talk) 15:10, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Bob Dylan on the Protest song page
Hi Mick. i was wondering if you might be interested in helping me expand the Bob Dylan section on the Protest song page, as it currently just gives the information that "Bob Dylan produced a number of landmark songs such as "Blowin' in the Wind" (1962), "Masters of War" (1963), "Talking World War III Blues" (1963), and "The Times They Are A-Changin'" (1964)." and has a little basic info on "The Hurricane" - hardly a fitting tribute to or investigation of Dylan's massive and significant contribution to this genre. I know Christmas is coming up, but I though I would ask if you have any interest, as your contributions to the Dylan page are always fantastic, well-referenced and right on the money. In any case, maybe you at least have some comments on how such a thing should be approached? thanks as always, and merry Christmas! Warchef (talk) 10:20, 19 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Hi Mick, thanks a million for your post; extremely well-thought out and insightful, I'm sorry I haven't had time to get back to you before now but I have also been a bit busy over the Christmas/New Year period. It's exactly that ambiguous nature with which Dylan treats the genre of "protest song" that makes a treatment of his role in the movement so difficult to write about, or at least do justice to. A pat entry would be something to the effect of "BD wrote a number of protest songs such as X,Y & Z, which became anthems of the civil rights movement." which I think we agree, does little to get to the heart of the matter. Like you, I find little outright, straight-forward protest in many of the songs (e,g, "Blowin in the Wind"), and many of the songs are too artful and literate, with too much going on, too much abstract imagery and poetry, to really say "this is a song about civil rights/war, etc." I mean, what exactly could one say that "wind" is actually protesting against? i think it's pretty hard to say conclusively that it's anti-anything in particular (The whole question of what exactly constitutes a protest song is a fascinating one - and one which is not particularly approached in the given article.) And i've always sort of found the nuclear fear which many people read into "Hard rain" to be a bit shoe-horned into the actual song itself, etc. however, for better or worse, Dylan is one of the key figures in the whole thing, and he has to be there, so i'd just like it to be a realistic portrayal, and not the commonly-accepted/parsed view of the issue. and as most people browsing the encyclopedia will probably link between the Bob Dylan and protest articles, it would be great if they could be somehow consistent. anyhow, a few protesty things that could maybe be agreed upon?:


 * his performance at the march on washington with baez, amid king et al. does place him firmly in the thick of things
 * his relationship with Seeger & Guthrie, and the huge influence they had on his art, places him very firmly in the American protest-folk tradition of the early 20th century, however little these influences might have manifested themselves directly in his lyrics (always felt Dylan belongs much more to this tradition than to that of his contemporaries; that he agreed with the former's emphasis on realistic social injustices rather than the latter's abstract notions of "love and peace", but that's always open to debate)
 * it's probably more true to say that his songs were adopted by the movement rather than being written for it (however, one or two exceptions such as "Masters of War', "Oxford Town", "Hattie Carroll" could be argued to be actual "protest songs" - whatever they are)
 * he rather forcefully distanced himself from the protest movement - i always thought it was interesting how people then thought that "protest" and "folk" were synonymous, that by turning his back on one he was turning his back on both. i feel he abandoned "protest" (or tried to point out that it had never been his mandate to begin with) and re-imagined folk on his three electric albums... however, all this is neither hear nor there, just thinking out loud.

anyway, i've some more thoughts on the matter, but have to go now. your comments on my discussion page have already been hugely helpful, i'll try to formulate them into text as soon as i've the chance, but if you've anymore ideas in the meantime i'd love to hear them. and if you'd like to make any contributions directly to the article, well that would be spiffing! peace Warchef (talk) 15:55, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

The Basement Tapes
Hi, Mick gold. Wow, I didn't realize when I was discussing with you that you were a Barnstar contributor—congratulations, that is a great achievement! Well, I was wondering whether you would be interested in helping me to clean up The Basement Tapes article. A while back I posted a suggestion that the The Basement Tapes and The Basement Tapes (Sessions) articles be merged, but I have gotten no response from anyone to that proposal. But both articles are a mess as far as I'm concerned, and could be merged into one really good concise, well-referenced article. Right now The Basement Tapes article is not terrible but it isn't referenced at all, which really takes away from its quality. From your Heylin and Marcus quotes in the other discussion we had, I know you have some sources you could use to reference it, and I have some good sources too. It's kind of an overwhelming project for one person to tackle, but if two people went at it, it'd be all the easier. Yeah, and The Basement Tapes (Sessions) article is right now very un-NPOV and not refernced either. I really don't think there needs to be a list of every track recorded—instead, an external link could be provided to one of the websites that lists and discusses every track. But again, there is a lot of overlap between the two subjects and I think The Basement Tapes (Sessions) article could be merged into the other. Well, let me know if you are interested in helping, or possibly if you can suggest anyone else I might try asking. Thank you very much. Moisejp (talk) 01:36, 20 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Hi, Moisejp. Yes, I agree with you. The Basement Tapes and The Basement Tapes (Sessions) can and should be merged. It makes no sense to have 2 articles. As you say, The Basement Tapes article is not bad, and The Basement Tapes (Sessions) is terrible. It could be structured around 4 sections:
 * 1. The background - the motorbike crash and re-grouping in Woodstock
 * 2. The recording sessions: what is known about the 107 (?) songs recorded
 * 3. The artists who recorded the songs: The Byrds, The Band, Julie Driscoll, Manfred Mann etc. Plus the 'official' album release from CBS in 1975.
 * 4. The aftermath: the bootlegs, The Genuine Basement Tapes, Greil Marcus's Invisible Republic.
 * Unfortunately, I'm busy with work right now. I don't have time to do a major re-write. It's not too difficult. You just need 1 or 2 good reference books: Heylin's Behind the Shades and Marcus's Invisible Republic are good starting points. And then you start re-working the material with footnotes. (If you do not make a start, it is possible no-one else will. "The journey of a thousand miles begins with one footstep," as Chairman Mao used to say.) I did this on the Bob Dylan article, but I don't have time to do it on all the Dylan-associated articles. For example, I think The Freewheelin' Bob Dylan is quite well-written and accurate, but the info has not been sourced. I'm sure that you could make a good start, and if you write an entry on the Bob Dylan Talk page appealing for help, others might join you. Which brings me to my last point. You seem to be a serious editor and yet you haven't registered as a User and acquired a Talk page. This is useful. This is where people may leave messages and suggestions for you. In the same way that you've left a message on mine. best wishes Mick gold (talk) 15:06, 20 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Hi, Mick gold. Thanks a lot for all the advice. I'm pretty busy these days too but as you say if I don't take the initiative it's possible no one else will. I'll see what I can do and try to fit in some time over the next few weeks or so. By the way, no one else has given any votes for our proposal to get rid of the The Basement Tapes (Sessions) article, so presumably no one has any objections. Do you know what I have to do to proceed with that? Thanks again. Moisejp (talk) 02:34, 9 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Hi Mick gold, how's it going? Thanks for your words of encouragement. For The Basement Tapes my strategy has to been to first make sure that everything that's in there is cited, and then after everything is cited I am going to look more at the article as a whole and see what parts can be fleshed out/smoothed over/moved/etc. So far I have citations for most of the info except the Dwarf Music section and a couple of other bits and pieces. When I get to the adding more information stage I may ask for your advice; looking ahead, I'm not sure yet how much/little to talk about the unreleased songs, and, assuming I don't list all of them, deciding which ones to talk about. But anyway, I'm not at that stage yet, and it may become clearer to me as I progress.
 * Good work on the The Freewheelin' Bob Dylan page with all the citations you've added. That helps the article quite a bit. There's still a fair amount of uncited information, though. When I get a chance I will go through it and see what I can do. Maybe some of the uncited information can be replaced with other relevant, cited information. Shelton's No Direction Home has quite a bit of information about Freewheelin' and the time period, so I will see what I can do with that when I have time.
 * I agree that it'd be great if we could slowly but surely get more of the Dylan-related articles up to snuff. I would like to at some point tackle some of the other album articles, such as Another Side of Bob Dylan and John Wesley Harding. But as you have said it takes several weeks to fix up an article. I also have some non-Dylan-related Wikipedia projects I am slowly working away at. Ah, at times it is frustrating and overwhelming how many "bad" articles there are on Wikipedia, and how much work it takes a single person to fix each one up, but it is really satisfying to see an article improve bit by bit and turn into something good. Well, good luck to both of us, and I will keep in touch about our ongoing "Dylan improvement" project. Take care! Moisejp (talk) 11:31, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

Gawain
Within 30 minutes we both added that the Gawain manuscript is in the British Library. I think you should have reverted my addition rather than yours: yours was better! It's suprising what escapes the FA process. Thincat (talk) 11:24, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

cats for Spivey Records
You've not actually edited the article since that bot's visit, so I'm assuming you're going by the preview window. That doesn't actually show categories (for some reason that's by no means clear to me). Just go ahead and try adding them. If you have any more trouble, I'll do my best to help out. Alai (talk) 22:58, 28 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Excellent. Welcome to the wacky and endlessly murky world of categorisation!  Alai (talk) 00:30, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

The Freewheelin' Bob Dylan
Hi. :) I've responded at the article's talk page to your request for an assessment of this article. I just wanted to drop you a personal note to say that the assessment in no way accurately reflects the quality of the article, but is due to the technicality that it does not include information about album personnel. I could and would include that information myself so that I can give it the "B" which is the highest assessment we can give, but then I wouldn't be able to assess it. :) Since I seem to be one of the very few members of that project who is assessing album articles at this point in time, that might mean it goes without assessment. As I indicated at the talk page, I'm more than happy to re-evaluate it if that technical limitation is overcome. I'm watching your talkpage for now in case you'd like to discuss this further. If you choose to respond but not within the next couple of days, please just drop me a note at my talk page, and I'll be happy to take it up there. Cheers. --Moonriddengirl (talk) 18:17, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

Hi there. I've done the job for you Mick. Think it's not the "complete" personnel but it looks fine to me. And good job!Sillyfolkboy (talk) 16:28, 9 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Thanks, Sillyfolkboy- why no Talk Page? Mick gold (talk) 17:49, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

I guess you mean "why no userpage?" Well i'm still pretty new, though I read the wiki rules out of boredom years ago. I suppose I like the idea that people might think I'm a bad editor just because i don't have a user page! Maybe when i think of something useful that could go there i'll make one. Keep up the great work on the Dylan stuff, it's stuff like that that's the real strength of Wikipedia. A normal encyclopedia couldn't be half as detailed on those articles. I'm working on Jeff and Tim Buckley articles myself at the moment, quite bizarre in that the articles tend to consist of edits just by me and various bots. Hope they're useful to someone someday! Sillyfolkboy (talk) 18:55, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

FYI
Hi Mick - most American Jews have Eastern European origins and their language was Yiddish, so many of their "Jewish" names are actually Yiddish not Hebrew. Zushe sounds like Yiddish to me, but I don't have a source, so I'm ok with saying Hebrew for now. Cheers Tvoz / talk 06:38, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

Bob Dylan referencing
Yeah sorry i didn't make this obvious! I meant the formatting of the referencing is all over the place (in terms of placement/order of details, italicisation, "quotations" for titles or not etc). Do you want me to have a look or can you do that sort of thing too? I recommend perhaps a FA review or peer review after this as older FA standards were not as strict and i imagine the article will be improved in numerous respects. What do you think? Sillyfolkboy (talk) 07:25, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

I've just started work on fixing the citations, this is the kind of thing I'm doing. It's one of the more anal sides of wikipedia but the fact is sometimes the links break and without the right info it's quite hard to find them again. There's a user who looks at referencing on the peer reviews: user:ealdgyth and i'll ask her to check things over when I'm done. It's a big task so I'll be doing this over a week or so. Some citations aren't good quality reliable resources (expectingrain.com for example). The beautiful thing about Dylan is that there are people writing quality published articles about him week in week out; finding a good source should be relatively easy. I'm confident that now, and in the future, the chronicles series will provide much information and act as a source too. I think the article so far is pretty good. It's length could be a problem because I think we could be more concise; spinning off more in-depth information into separate articles (like electric controversy and album articles etc) where possible. However, Dylan's body of work is vast, so it is logical that the article reflects this. Looking forward to improving things with your help! Sillyfolkboy (talk) 11:46, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

FAR
Bob Dylan has been nominated for a featured article review. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. Please leave your comments and help us to return the article to featured quality. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, articles are moved onto the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Remove" the article from featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. Reviewers' concerns are here.
 * I replied at mine. — Realist  2  14:57, 6 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Ping — Realist  2  13:20, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Sorry to be a ball-ache but remember to place the fullstop/comma before the reference. Good luck with making improvements, and be sure to remind the nominator that he should also be addressing the issues where possible! Cheers. Sillyfolkboy (talk) 21:02, 15 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Hi, I moved the references at the end so that the citations support what the sentence says. However, you can do it on a fact by fact basis with cites mid-sentence if you think it's more clear. I don't think either way is wrong per se. Also, sorry but I won't be able to help out in the next few days as I've got a lot of other things to do. All the best. Sillyfolkboy (talk) 03:47, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

Dylan page number
Hi Mick, thanks for the message - I'm using the paperback edition, by all means subsitute for the hardback edition. Best, 650 Norton (1951) (talk) 19:52, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

John Birch
Hi Mick, "Paranoid" was never included in the title when it was released on the withdrawn copy of Freewheelin'. As for titles in songbooks, and spoken intros on live versions, I would have thought they do not negate the original title of the song, the withdrawn studio version was titled: "Talkin' John Birch Society Blues." Best wishes, 650 Norton (1951) (talk) 15:54, 12 September 2008 (UTC)