User talk:Middayexpress/Archive 41

Mo Farah Edit
You deleted this from the biography section...

"His Father on the other hand was born in England and grew up in Hounslow. His parents met after his father went on holiday to Somalia."

If you read the second last paragraph of this article, it pretty much backs up what I wrote - http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/general/athletics/brian-viner-interviews-mo-farah-846351.html

I think it's important to mention that he has a British father who was born and raised here. After all, he has talked about his father publically to a national newspaper.

So any chance you can reference it? Because I don't know how to reference it on Wikipedia

Thanks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.177.11.69 (talk) 00:17, 18 July 2011 (UTC)


 * The passage was unsourced; I've fixed it now. That said, if you were the person who added that phrase as you indicate ("If you read the second last paragraph of this article, it pretty much backs up what I wrote"), then that means you are User:Bazancourt since he/she first added that phrase to the article (c.f. ). I presume you forgot to log in? Whatever the case, in future, please remember to do so and also to sign your posts. Thanks, Middayexpress (talk) 05:47, 18 July 2011 (UTC)

Yep, it's me Bazancourt
There are times when I am logged in and when I make my edits, my name doesn't appear. And there are times when I'm not logged in, and my name does appear after making a change.

Hmmm, maybe it's browser I'm using. I'll look into it. Thanks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.176.43.6 (talk) 20:00, 18 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Good to know. Middayexpress (talk) 20:03, 18 July 2011 (UTC)}}

Can I ask why you threw out some of my contributions to Somali Bantu?
Hello Middayexpress,

Yesterday I also tried to my best knowledge to fill in some gaps and address some byass about the origins of Bantu's in Somalia, and about there abuse in the civil war. I worked in Ethiopia, Somalia and Northern Kenya, worked with hundreds of them, interviewed dozens of them, so I felt qualified to write this, realizing that few others have looked into their faith. The current version largely represents the views of non-Bantu Ethnic Somali's, who serves to mask abusive relationships: it represents their 'allegiance' as a free choice and it completely avoids the subject of the gross abuse, specifically made against them during the civil war. Also, the myth that all Bantu's originate from other parts of Africa, is used by Somali warlords and government officials to allow the continued treatment of Bantu's as refugees, denying them their right to own and farm land. UN and aid organisations who have any doubt on these arguments are likely to turn also to Wikipedia, so it has a real purpose to make these additions.

What can I do to make such additions acceptable?

Thanks for your advice, Pieter Smit, Amsterdam.

P.S. Your editing of what you left in from my additions was an improvement! Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.95.147.126 (talk) 06:38, 19 July 2011 (UTC)

Hello Middayexpress,

Yesterday I also tried to my best knowledge to fill in some gaps and address some byass about the origins of Bantu's in Somalia, and about there abuse in the civil war. I worked in Ethiopia, Somalia and Northern Kenya, worked with hundreds of them, interviewed dozens of them, so I felt qualified to write this, realizing that few others have looked into their faith. The current version largely represents the views of non-Bantu Ethnic Somali's, who serves to mask abusive relationships: it represents their 'allegiance' as a free choice and it completely avoids the subject of the gross abuse, specifically made against them during the civil war. Also, the myth that all Bantu's originate from other parts of Africa, is used by Somali warlords and government officials to allow the continued treatment of Bantu's as refugees, denying them their right to own and farm land. UN and aid organisations who have any doubt on these arguments are likely to turn also to Wikipedia, so it has a real purpose to make these additions.

What can I do to make such additions acceptable?

Thanks for your advice, Pieter Smit, Amsterdam.

P.S. Your editing of what you left in from my additions was an improvement! Thank you.82.95.147.126 (talk) 06:49, 19 July 2011 (UTC)

Sorry, Pieter again, bit in a hurry, forgot to logon and sign my question to you about the deleted contributions. Still have to get used to the system. Pieter. Pieter Felix Smit (talk) 06:54, 19 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Hello. I reverted your edits because the material was original research. It was also written in a non-neutral register and contradicted much of the standard literature on Bantu peoples in Somalia (c.f. WP:FRINGE and WP:REDFLAG). In addition, the material had strong elements of advocacy in it, which is not allowed on Wikipedia under any circumstances. It is not our place as editors to side with one group of people over another through our edits. Now that I think of it, there may also be conflict of interest issues at work since you also indicate that you have worked closely with the Bantu people (see WP:COI).


 * That said, here are some specific things that were wrong with your edit:


 * You changed the text to suggest that it's only Somalis who regard the Bantus as hailing from southeastern Africa. This is inaccurate. Just about all of the standard literature underscores the fact that Bantus are, for the most part, descendants of peoples who were brought from parts of southeastern Africa in the recent Arab slave trade (I think perhaps you're confusing them with peoples like the Bajuni, whom belong to the separate Swahili culture, as is explained in the intro). That's only in the past few hundred years. This is why many Bantus still speak Bantu languages that are spoken in southeastern Africa, and have similar cultural practices as peoples in that part of the continent as well as social systems, etc.. All of the latter has been confirmed by the Tanzanian government, which is why it now officially grants Bantus citizenship and land in their ancestral homeland in southeastern Africa.
 * You added a phrase suggesting that Bantus have farmed in East Africa for thousands of years. This is also inaccurate. It is generally acknowledged that Bantus as a whole ultimately originate in Western Africa and arrived in Southern and Eastern Africa relatively recently (see Bantu expansion). This has been confirmed on linguistic, cultural, archaeological and genetic grounds.
 * You changed the text to suggest that the Italians tried to abolish slavery. They didn't. They abolished it outright at the turn of the 20th century; it just persisted informally in certain areas through forced labor.
 * You suggested that Bantus were forced to attach themselves to the Somalis' patrilineal clan system of social stratification. This is also wrong. While there may have been a few isolated cases of this, these particular Bantus for the most part voluntary tried to assimilate into the Somalis' clan system and for security reasons. Most Bantus have actually been shut out from the Somali clan system, which is generally reserved for ethnically Somali people. Hence, why the pejorative sheegad ("pretender") is attached to client groups, as explained in the article.


 * The rest of the edit put undue weight on the hardships Bantus faced at the hands of militiamen, which are already touched on. There's also a passage in it where you suggested that conditions for the Bantu improved under the leadership of the Islamist groups such as Al-Shabaab. This is only partly accurate. A notable percentage of Al-Shabaab members are actually themselves Bantus. The group has also desecrated some Bantu graves, alongside those of Sufi Muslims and Christians.


 * That's basically what was wrong with your edits. Much of the article is already based on academic references from Somali Studies scholars (none of whom, in this case, are Somali btw), which are the highest quality sources there are on the subject. Have a look at this page; it gives a good overview of the Bantus' history and circumstances. Best regards, Middayexpress (talk) 09:59, 19 July 2011 (UTC)

2011 Horn of Africa famine
Hi,

Can you respond to the talk page comments I made? This is a front-page article, and I don't want to be edit-warring over it. Anyway, good work.  Batjik  Syut  fu  23:18, 21 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I already left a response there. Middayexpress (talk) 23:21, 21 July 2011 (UTC)

149.254.234.138
It appears the page you recently created was an attempt to create a Sock puppet report. However we don't create pages in the main namespace to do this. Instead use the WP:SPI page where clerks automatically archive the reports in a systematic format. Shadowjams (talk) 21:48, 25 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the deletion request; you beat me to it! The page was indeed mistake. I've filed one properly here. Best regards, Middayexpress (talk) 21:52, 25 July 2011 (UTC)