User talk:Milspec7

Re you recent edit of Popular image of Cossacks
There were no "Petlura cossacks" that you are are referencing. Those were Ukrainian nationalists headed by Petlura that self-proclaimed themselves as "cossacks". The Zaporozhian Cossack Host in Ukraine ceased to exist in 1775 (this is a well known fact), since this Cossack host they were moved by the Cathrine the Great to the Kuban' region (Russia). Don Cossacks (also in Russia) -- who are basically Russians -- were not anti-semitic, in fact Jewish students in 1918 formed one of the brigades in the Don Cossack Army to participate in the defense of the Don Republic against the Reds. (See the Jewish Cossacks entry in Wikipedia, the very end of it). Of the pogroms committed in Ukraine in 1919 the huge chunk was done by the Ukrainian People's Republic Army (Petlura was the stateman at the time). Perhaps you could edit your entry to point out that these were Ukrainians (or perhaps "Ukrainian (self-proclaimed) Cossacks"). Or if you are okay with it, I can edit your entry. If you are not okay, I will leave it as is (but others will probably delete it).

TO: 173.76.253.77 Thanks for this information. Although it directly conflicts with the Red Cross accounts of the pogroms in Podolia, as well as those of my relatives, I understand that the situation was extremely confused. It would be hard today to prove either characterization of the perpetrators, and it's important to explain this problem. Go ahead and make the edits that you feel are appropriate, and, if they are reasonable and useful, I will be happy that you did it. We can all always weigh in later. Thanks for taking the time to address this matter. harmonbond (talk) 14:31, 21 February 2014 (UTC)


 * I have edited the section a bit (please check for correctness). Indeed, it is hard to sort out which (self-proclaimed or proper) Cossacks were responsible, probably it was some mix. I am also certain that Don Cossacks were not an anti-semitic people as a whole.173.76.253.77 (talk) 19:43, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
 * Hello, Milspec7. I have embedded the reference with a link to the Internet Archive where it is available for any reader in a variety of forms. Note that I have removed the "summarizing reports of the Red Cross's All-Ukrainian Relief Committee for the Victims of Pogroms." as such a notation is inappropriate for an entire book. The fact that the summary included 'Petlura cossacks' (when did Petlura become a Cossack Hetman?) is indicative of a highly unencyclopaedic, specious representation of the content of the source in question.


 * I will read through the text as soon as I'm able in order to establish what does exist in the cited source (although I have a huge backlog of citation checks & copyedits, so it's not likely to happen for some time). In the meantime, you may wish to read the source carefully yourself in order to establish chapters and page numbers for the asserted summary. I've tagged the citation for these outstanding matters and would be grateful if you would address them rather than reverting attempts at constructive editing. Thank you for your co-operation. --Iryna Harpy (talk) 22:29, 22 February 2014 (UTC)


 * Indeed, the direct (non-summary) accounts mention "Petlurists" (Petlura was the statesman of the Ukrainian republic), "peasants", and "soldiers" as perpetrators of pogroms. I was able to find "Gaidamaky" (=rebels) as well, but I could not find a direct account that mentions "Cossacks" specifically (from Kuban, Don, or Terek hosts, which are all located outside Ukraine). Perhaps I am wrong or I missed some documents, but it is important to rely on direct accounts.  The summary does use Gaidamaki interchangeably with Cossacks, which is incorrect. The summary also mentions that Petlurist/(Ukrainian Republic) forces were responsible, in particular those headed by Zaporozhsky ataman Semosenko, but the Zaporozhian Host/Sich was destroyed in 1775 and the  Zaporozhian Cossacks (proper) were relocated to the Kuban' region (in Russia, not Ukraine) -- this is where the Olympic games are taking place now.  So the summary and direct accounts differ quite a bit. I am afraid the summary could have been influenced by the politics of the time (Cossacks were the backbone of the White Army, which fought against the Bolsheviks. In 1919 the Soviet government ordered to exterminate all wealthy and middle-income Cossacks, which pretty much meant everyone.) In any case, obviously, it will be important to mention any direct evidence. [We should move this discussion to the talk page for Cossacks.]173.76.253.77 (talk) 04:56, 23 February 2014 (UTC)