User talk:Miniapolis/Archives/2014/January

Copyediting mentoring?
Hi! Are you still interested in mentoring copyeditors? I've just joined the group and am primarily interested in editing for things like copyediting and references, so this seems like a good place to start. Happy new year!

SarahTheEntwife (talk) 22:59, 3 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Hi, Sarah Happy New Year to you too, and welcome to the GOCE. I've found that copyediting is best learned by doing. The "How to copy edit" link on the GOCE homepage is a good jumping-off point, and you may want to bookmark the Manual of Style; it seems humongous at first, but is a useful reference. I'm glad to see you've signed up for the January copyediting drive; doing articles from the backlog is a low-stress way to get started. Let me know any other way I can help. Have fun and all the best,  Mini  apolis  00:31, 4 January 2014 (UTC)

The Signpost: 01 January 2014

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Help!
Thank you again for the copy edit of USS Mahan (DD-364) article and your favorable comment about it. However, today this tag was hung on it. This article is written like a personal reflection or opinion essay rather than an encyclopedic description of the subject. Please help improve it by rewriting it in an encyclopedic style. (January 2014) Could you take the time to help me out here? Pendright (talk) 21:44, 4 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Not to worry; the tag was removed by a third editor, and I left a note on the tagger's talk page; they should've elaborated on the article talk page or in the edit summary. All the best,  Mini  apolis  00:50, 5 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Thank you! Pendright (talk) 01:13, 5 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Glad to help (and I wasn't the only one :-)). The tagger is an experienced editor and frankly, I was surprised but we all goof sometimes. Good luck with GA and all the best,  Mini  apolis  01:18, 5 January 2014 (UTC)

Mullum Malarum
I have listed it at the GOCE. Can u pls begin a copy-edit of it, or request someone else to? Bcos I can't wait for long. &#45;--- Kailash29792 (talk) 10:33, 30 November 2013 (UTC)
 * The article's listing on WP:GOCE/REQ is  a request; however, copyediting is not "rewriting". Neither is "check[ing] the sources and writ[ing] according to them" or "avoid[ing] copyvio trouble" (FWIW, I don't go near articles with suspected copyright problems). Those are the jobs of the nominating editor, and after those problems are fixed is the appropriate time for a copyedit.  Mini  apolis  21:32, 30 November 2013 (UTC)
 * , everything in the article is now verifiable and the copy-editor need not check the source before editing. &#45;--- Kailash29792 (talk) 02:47, 1 December 2013 (UTC)


 * Bafflegab 1978 has finished copyediting the article, but somehow I am not satisfied with the final outcome. Feels like a plastic surgery gone wrong. Can u pls re-edit it? Kailash29792 (talk) 15:17, 5 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Baffle is a very good copyeditor and in any case, I don't second-guess my colleagues. Take up whatever issues you have with their copyedit with them.  Mini  apolis  16:01, 5 January 2014 (UTC)
 * The thing is, Kailash, I can only copy-edit what's in the article. If you give me a sow's ear I cannot make a silk purse from it, and if I've misinterpreted something it's because it wasn't clearly written in the first place. I did check some sources but don't understand Tamil so checking those sources doesn't help, even with Google Translate. Feel free to make corrections and to request another copy-edit at the GOCE requests page after significant changes have been made, but please don't expect miracles from us because you'll be disappointed. Sorry for dumping on your talk page Miniapolis. :-) Cheers, Baffle gab1978 (talk) 17:33, 5 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Glad you saw it, since I thought it was Kailash's place to contact you. Most requesters are appreciative, but some don't understand what is and is not part of a copyedit (and have no clue about the amount of serious time we put into it :-)). All the best,  Mini  apolis  18:10, 5 January 2014 (UTC)


 * Bafflegab, I'm sorry if my quote offended u. That was bcos the final outcome of ur copy edit did not vary considerably from how the article originally was. Kailash29792 (talk) 01:58, 6 January 2014 (UTC)
 * There's no offence taken and no need to apologise, but I thought a reply was needed. Perhaps a Peer review before GA nomination might give you some ideas about developing the article. Anyway good luck with it. Cheers, Baffle gab1978 (talk) 08:05, 7 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Yes—under the circumstances, peer review is a good idea. All the best,  Mini  apolis  14:43, 7 January 2014 (UTC)

The Signpost: 08 January 2014

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What does your name mean?
Just curious -Tomlamusga (talk) 04:39, 12 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Just an alternate spelling of the city in your home state :-).  Mini  apolis  16:01, 12 January 2014 (UTC)

The Signpost: 15 January 2014

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January 2014
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 * * Lice kao zemlja A Face Like Earth, in a collection of stories by Gojko Antic with a preface by Mirjana Strcic. [

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 * staff with a built-in grapple, a sword, explosives, firearms and his version of Detective Vision Tactical Vision  .   The ''
 * Origins Multiplayer Gameplay|last=Shaw-Williams|first=Hannah|publisher=[GameRankings.com] / CBS Interactive |date=September 19, 2013|accessdate=October 11, 2013|archiveurl=http://

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 * /> Others found the use of previous elements tedious, with replacements simply mimicking the old such as the glue grenade, with an identical purpose to the ice grenades in Arkham City.<ref
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 * The name "Khorasan" derives from the Middle Persian khor (sun) + asa arising from , or "land where the sun rises". The Persian Khāvar-zamīn , "the eastern

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 * of the Tribe of Zebulun. Zabul is the Pashto and Arabic form of the Hebrew Zebulon, and Zabul ( lang-ps|زابل) is an historic province in modern Afghanistan.

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 * January 10, 2014}} Cohen left Columbia to join Stone as a partner and co-CEO at Cornerstone which was recognized in 2007 for its integration of musicians in advertising campaigns. ''

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 * CNE), known as a new employment contract, new recruitment contract or new-job contract in English is a French employment contract proposed by Prime Minister Dominique de Villepin
 * social measures, although Giscard d'Estaing and the ministers supported economic liberalism.

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 * drew a line equitable for both parties, Romania received nearly 80 percent of the disputed area allowing it to exploit a significant—but undetermined—portion of an estimated 100 billion cubic

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 * Gadag, Lakkundi was the residence of the Chalukyan kings. It is known for its 101 stepwells known as kalyani or pushkarni and its Hindu and Jain temples. A sculpture gallery is

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Thank you
hi Miniapolis, thank you for your work on Red Fort. Gryffindor (talk) 05:03, 2 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Glad to help; it's an interesting article! Good luck and all the best,  Mini  apolis  14:52, 2 January 2014 (UTC)

You were too nice
Hi Anne. I think we're going to need to be a little bit tougher than just asking that one to slow down. I don't want to bite the newbie, but there's a serious competence issue there. They (she?) is doing very little to each article they go to, but what little they are doing is net negative from what I've looked at. Maybe call them off? --Stfg (talk) 20:02, 20 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Hi, Simon, and thanks for your suggestion. I haven't looked at their contribs, but I saw the 53 articles on the drive page and thought "yikes!" I'm sure you had to deal with this in those halcyon days when you were a coordinator; what do you mean by "call[ing] them off"? I'm all for editor retention, but fast and sloppy we don't need (although I went into this backwards; the ANI OP seems to shoot first and ask questions later). Any advice more than welcome. All the best,  Mini  apolis  20:18, 20 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Hi Anne. I've emailed you. Cheers, --Stfg (talk) 20:50, 20 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Thanks; check your inbox. All the best,  Mini  apolis  21:07, 20 January 2014 (UTC)

SSRI discussion
Hi Mini,

I wanted to drop a line and thank you for your comments on the SSRI discussion. As little as I like defending myself against charges of bad faith editing, I did appreciate that you looked into the issues rather than simply shooting off an vote based solely on my comments. Others did not seem to do that, which strikes me as a little irresponsible.

I did not want to get into a discussion about myself over there because I firmly believe that any COI of mine is not the key issue. It is not a situation in which I have privileged access to information that others do not have and am asking others to trust me. Everyone can see the article and evaluate both it and the cited references for themselves. If Satan states that the sun rose in the East this morning, it is still true. If Mother Theresa insists it rose in the west, it is still false. The identity and motives of the messenger seem to me irrelevant when all have equal access to all of the data. Thus I felt that discussing my motives was off-topic. However, I am more than happy to discuss them here, knowing full well that you will likely regard anything I write with skepticism.

I have no COIs in this matter (all of the SSRIs are now off patent, sold by generics companies as commodities for pennies a pill. Having a COI with respect to SSRIs would be like having a COI with respect to cement or pork bellies).

Like everyone else, I do have some biases:

1) While Wikipedia is not supposed to be used for medical decision making, I'm sure that it is used that way frequently. Many of the pharmaceutical articles get over 1000 hits per day. I feel strongly that we owe it to these people to offer the most accurate possible description of the safety and efficacy of these drugs. This includes:


 * Not fibbing to make these drugs look better than they are (SSRIs in particular are not terribly effective drugs; ALL drugs have important side effects, and
 * Not exaggerating or overstating the freqency/severity of side effects or the evidence supporting causation; Likewise not unduly trivializing the data supporting their efficacy.

In the talk page of one of the fluroquinolone articles (which was openly dominated for 2 years or so by a group engaging in litigation against the manufacturers of Cipro and Levaquin, in flagrant violation of the COI rules and inexplicably without intervention by Wikipedia Admins), I ran across a note from a practicing physician complaining that the articles vastly exaggerated the risk of these drugs (They did relative to what is in medical textbooks and most review articles), and that after reading the articles, several of his patients had refused to take their antibiotic prescription, putting themselves at great risk in the process. I was horrified by this, just as I am horrified by many of the lies and mis-statements of Big Pharma over the last 15 years.

2) Item #1 begs the question as to what is a true and reliable assessment of the safety and efficacy of these products. I am frankly a very conventional guy who believes that there are a million eyes following all things medical, and the mainstream opinion as found in medical textbooks and non-industry funded review articles is usually correct. Thus my problem with the concept of "Post-SSRI sexual dsysfunction". For what its worth, I also deleted a remark in the SSRI article stating that these compounds have remarkable antibacterial properties.  Its just not in the textbooks or in the authoritative reviews.

3) I spent several years in the industry, working in discovery research on drugs for AIDS (before HAART existed, it was quite urgent then), multi-drug resistant bacterial infections, and Alzheimer's disease (but NOT SSRIs!). I loved the work and loved coming to work each day working on things that felt like they really mattered.

Recognizing my own potential (and actual) biases, and the potential for others to respond to me as you did, I have actively sought out feedback from senior editors and Admins within the Wikipedia Medicine and Pharmacology Projects to review all my major edits as well as actions like nominiating this article for deletion. I do this both for ethical reasons, and frankly, to put some ammunition in my belt in the event that my motives are questioned. I can point back to an admin or senior editor who has evaluated pretty much every major edit I have made, and at my request.) Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Doc James reviewed my article on sofosbuvir and at least implicitly OK'd it (all he did was correct a typo), but a week later I got hit with an "advertisement" flag by one of the the other senior editors. I do the best I can.

In any case, it is good to make your acquaintance. I see you are a horse lover (which is a little outside my experience), and a veteran editor/Admin. I respect and appreciate that you did not use your position to swat me down. I'm sure it would have been easy to do so.

Respectfully, Formerly 98 (talk) 00:14, 25 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Thanks very much for your thoughtful comments. Your help would probably be appreciated at WikiProject Medicine, which tries to keep the medical articles as reliable as possible because many readers (including me) come here first. No worries about any consequences to our discussion; I'm primarily a copyeditor who happens to be an admin, and have no trouble keeping the mop and the pencil in separate hands :-). Thanks for sparking a productive AfD discussion and all the best,  Mini  apolis  00:40, 25 January 2014 (UTC)

The Signpost: 22 January 2014

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