User talk:Mnavon

JFW | T@lk  13:40, 19 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Chilazon
You added to Tzitzit:
 * The chillazon dye is identical to that produced from kela ilan plant (Indigoferra tinctoria) (Baba Metzia 61b)

Closer reading of the Gemara there implies that kela ilan was used as faux Techelet, and certainly not as a replacement. JFW | T@lk  14:03, 19 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Though there is no doubt that "kela ilan" was used as faux tekhelet, this does not, in any way, mitigate the point that it is a valid criteria for true tekhelet. Indeed, the fact that it was used as forgery implies that it was the same hue - at least close enough that people were duped to thinking it was the real color. As such, comparison to this well known plant source is a welcome "lead" to establishing the true color source. Mnavon 13:28, Jan 4, 2005 (UTC)


 * In that case you should have written: "The Talmud (Baba Metzia 61b) states that the kela ilan plant was similar in color to techelet." Your old insert implied that it was valid techelet. None of the meforashim say that it was a valid but inferior dye. JFW | T@lk  18:23, 4 Jan 2005 (UTC)

OK, I think what I need to add is that the "kela ilan" plant was a counterfeit source of the dye. Mnavon 09:43, Jan 5, 2005 (UTC)

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