User talk:Mo ainm/Archives/2011/August

Ifcp1
Our friend Ifcp1 has gone and 90.213.69.60 has appeared to remove the sourced content from the Linfield FC article. Do you know anything about the protocol of starting sock puppet investigations for this sort of thing? Does an IP count as a sock puppet? --Eamonnca1 (talk) 22:59, 1 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Just left a note here. Mo ainm  ~Talk  23:01, 1 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Would WP:ANI be a good place to put it too? --Eamonnca1 (talk) 23:07, 1 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Yeah might get a quicker response. Certainly can here quacking with this IP. Mo ainm  ~Talk  23:09, 1 August 2011 (UTC)

If you are suggesting i haave been editing from a different computer or another account then you are wrong, i have been upfront with all the discussions on here, i would like you to retract this accusation.Ifcp1 (talk) 00:44, 2 August 2011 (UTC)


 * The IP made a single edit only. I'm not sure that means it was an unconnected editor, it was an innocent error (got logged out and didn't realize it), or it was an "Oops! Busted, better not do that again" sock edit. If it were more than a single edit, and if the quacking weren't loud enough for an outright block or two, WP:Sockpuppet investigations would be the venue of choice. (Forgive me barging in on the conversation, but I saw the discussion at AN/I.) —C.Fred (talk) 01:02, 2 August 2011 (UTC)

As i said i have made no other edits than those signed by my account, talk to those who made the edit, as it was not me but its being linked to me on this very page, again sidestepping the real issue here.Ifcp1 (talk) 08:07, 2 August 2011 (UTC)

Linfield
Can you remember which of those players are capped and which aren't? The flags have made a comeback. --Eamonnca1 (talk) 20:20, 2 August 2011 (UTC)
 * The only ones with caps are Alan Blayney, Steven Douglas, Michael Gault, Daryl Fordyce, Gary Browne, Rory Patterson, Robert Garrett, Jamie Mulgrew, Albert Watson, Mark McAllister, Chris Casement. I left the underage caps in even though technically they could still declare for ROI until they get a full cap.  Mo ainm  ~Talk  20:48, 2 August 2011 (UTC)

Dessie Ellis
Hi Mo ainm, regarding your revert of my latest edit, do you disagree that as it stands this article doesn't satisfy WP:MOSBIO? Best, JonChapple Talk 13:12, 10 August 2011 (UTC)
 * I am of the opinion that we should use from Ireland or from Northern Ireland as the are factual and correct especially with the use of Northern Irish as it makes a judgement on the person that might not be true, having said that I think linking to the Irish people page is the most neutral way of saying it. Mo ainm  ~Talk  17:55, 10 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Okay, would you support a change to "from Ireland" for Ellis? WP:MOSBIO advises against linking to an ethnicity and specifies it should be a nationality. JonChapple Talk 18:05, 10 August 2011 (UTC)
 * And you will support the removal of Northern Irish from other articles? Mo ainm  ~Talk  18:09, 10 August 2011 (UTC)
 * If it's unsourced, yes. To be honest, I'd rather we just said Irish for Ellis though, per WP:MOSBIO. Citizens of the republic are described as Irish, aren't they? JonChapple Talk 18:24, 10 August 2011 (UTC)

Liam Neeson
Hi Mo ainm,

Liam Neeson has American citizenship and he is from Ireland, thus making him an Irish-American. William Harnett for example was born in Ireland yet he is still listed as an Irish-American on Wikipedia.76.125.58.198 (talk) 14:47, 12 August 2011 (UTC)
 * An Irish-American is a person who can trace back their ancestry, what was his search for his Irish ancestry? Walk to the mirror look in, yeah that's me I'm Irish. And the article you link to is linked separately Irish and American which should be changed. Having read the article he moved shortly after birth so possibly more of a case for I-A Mo ainm  ~Talk  14:53, 12 August 2011 (UTC)
 * It is also an American citizen who is originally from Ireland. Liam Neeson is already listed as an American person at the bottom of the article. I don't see how he cannot be considered an Irish-American.76.125.58.198 (talk) 14:58, 12 August 2011 (UTC)
 * It's OR unless it can be sourced. He also clearly identifies with the UK, as evidenced here ("I know we need to tighten our belts but not with our movie council"). I think it's best left at Irish. JonChapple Talk 15:02, 12 August 2011 (UTC)
 * The cats at the bottom of the page are different to what goes into the main body of the article, they are usually sub cats of something else and are just used to ease navigation. Mo ainm  ~Talk  15:10, 12 August 2011 (UTC)

No, it's not. He has American citizenship. "The people of the United States or simply Americans or American people are the inhabitants or citizens of the United States." 76.125.58.198 (talk) 15:04, 12 August 2011 (UTC)

Here is a reliable source that says he is an Irish American. http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/407938/Liam-Neeson 76.125.58.198 (talk) 15:12, 12 August 2011 (UTC)
 * But when we have conflicting sources the safest thing to do is to go by what the person calls themselves and in this case it is Irish. Mo ainm  ~Talk  15:21, 12 August 2011 (UTC)

The sources do not conflict. He was born in Ireland and currently resides and has citizenship in the United States. He can call himself Irish and still be Irish-American. As I have said earlier, many Irish-Americans do refer to themselves as Irish. It does not negate the fact that they are American citizens. 76.125.58.198 (talk) 15:28, 12 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Where is the source that he calls himself Irish American? Mo ainm  ~Talk  15:40, 12 August 2011 (UTC)

There is no need for it. His American citizenship is enough to prove that he is an Irish American. 76.125.58.198 (talk) 15:52, 12 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Of course there is the onus is on the editor to back up with sources any addition if challenged. Mo ainm  ~Talk  16:03, 12 August 2011 (UTC)

I have already given a source that refers to him as Irish American. You are asking for a very detailed and exact statement from him which you know does not exist and which frankly is not needed. He is an American citizen who was born in Ireland. That by definition is an Irish American. Perhaps you can open a new section on the discussion page so a consensus can be reached? 76.125.58.198 (talk) 16:13, 12 August 2011 (UTC)
 * It already was discussed before. Mo ainm  ~Talk  16:15, 12 August 2011 (UTC)

And it ended with no clear consensus. 76.125.58.198 (talk) 16:21, 12 August 2011 (UTC)
 * So stick with existing consensus. Mo ainm  ~Talk  16:34, 12 August 2011 (UTC)

Obviously there is no consensus if we are still debating this. 76.125.58.198 (talk) 16:37, 12 August 2011 (UTC)
 * There is a consensus, he identifies myself as Irish. The opening line of the American Irish article should give you a clue to it's use: "Irish Americans are citizens of the United States who can trace their ancestry to Ireland". It is for people born in America with roots in Ireland not for people who were born in Ireland. Bjmullan (talk) 16:52, 12 August 2011 (UTC)

Hi BJ, Irish Americans also includes American citizens who were born in Ireland. There are quite a few Irish-born individuals who are listed as Irish Americans on Wikipedia. 76.125.58.198 (talk) 16:57, 12 August 2011 (UTC)


 * "Irish-American" is an ethnic marker, not a nationality, and stating "Irish-American" does make it sound like Liam Neeson was born in America and is of Irish descent which is 100% wrong. The US has only one citizenship and thats American. He is however born in Northern Ireland and is thus of British citizenship (unless he resigned his nationality, which we'd need proof of), however he is of Irish ethnicity and possible holds dual-citizenship if he signed up for Irish citizenry. Whatever he personally is, he is defiantely not Irish-American. Mabuska (talk) 10:58, 15 August 2011 (UTC)

Fair enough. You do have a point. Since he does have American citizenship however, I have decided to add 'American' to the Nationality section of the infobox. So he is listed as both an Irish citizen and an American citizen. Does this sound like a good solution? 76.125.58.198 (talk) 14:38, 17 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Depends if there is proof he is an Irish citizen. It would also be wrong to add in an ethnic nationality and a citizenship nationlity in the same section as there is nothnig there to distinguish between the two. Mabuska (talk) 10:40, 19 August 2011 (UTC)

"Portadown FC "
I would like to ask the reasoning behind my comments beings removed ??? Hope its as good as the evidence behind the Problem Section ? ehhhh got an agenda with Portadown FC ? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ritchie 44 (talk • contribs) 15:07, 15 August 2011 (UTC)
 * This post here explains exactly why they are "your" comments and opinion. Read WP:NPOV Mo ainm  ~Talk  15:16, 15 August 2011 (UTC)

No you see the problem section is written by people that like yourself with an agenda, knowing nothing about Portadown FC or there about, I see you have edited the Linfield FC page also you state a open mind and view yet your the perpetrater doing so. So again it begs to ask the yet unanswered question's " I would like to ask the reasoning behind my comments beings removed ??? Hope its as good as the evidence behind the Problem Section ? ehhhh got an agenda with Portadown FC ? " answers on a postcard? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ritchie 44 (talk • contribs) 15:22, 15 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Ok I'll play along for now, what is my agenda? Mo ainm  ~Talk

What is the need for sectarian comments on a football page not in any way relating to the football club on its page? saying you so much about the history of the club you would also known that the social club is not related to the club and is privately owned ? you also mention a scuffle at the oval believe it or not Portadown FC do not play there and every time Fans travel to that pit we get attacted no mention of that or on their page. in any of the above pick your agenda thanks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ritchie 44 (talk • contribs)
 * Firstly do not refactor my comments please, secondly every incident in the Problems section is reliably sourced with verifiable sources if they are not true then find a source that says so and add it to the article. Also would you please sign your comments using ~ Mo ainm  ~Talk  15:48, 15 August 2011 (UTC)

Could I see this "source" with reference to the football club ? Ritchie 44 (talk) 16:17, 15 August 2011 (UTC)
 * They are all on the page. Mo ainm  ~Talk  16:22, 15 August 2011 (UTC)

That in no way is in reference to Portadown and the words have been twisted to suit your agenda however you decided to delete my comments about community relations and non sectarion support ps here's my ligitment links .....http://www.portadownfc.co.uk/uefas-10-point-plan/   http://www.portadownfc.co.uk/2011/06/24/portadown-fc-community-relations-initiatives-2011-12/

Ritchie 44 (talk) 16:42, 15 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Again you are spouting shit, what agenda? Your getting tiresome now I have told you why your comments were removed and I have told you what to do if you dispute the content that is in the article, which by the way I didn't add, so if you wan't help with the article fair enough you are welcome to comment here on how we can remedy the situation, if you just want to bitch and moan and make unfounded accusations then fuck off somewhere else and do it. Mo ainm  ~Talk  16:47, 15 August 2011 (UTC)

There are links to community relations and non sectarion support, I don't no how to add links to the page, therfore everytime i add a comment it will be deleted, There is little truth to the comments and its important to out shaddow them with the acts the club has been doing in recent years. Ritchie 44 (talk) 17:08, 15 August 2011 (UTC)