User talk:Mono/Archive 12

Editing tests
Don't you have a sandbox for stuff like this? Airplaneman  ✈  22:10, 2 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Airplaneman, I'm sorry, however, I'd made a tweak to the code and needed to test it. Plus, it automatically excludes my userspace...--   m oo,ooo n o   celebrating 10,000 edits 22:13, 2 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Is it because you want to lower your userspace contrib percentage? Well, since you're still in the talk space, try your sandbox talk or something; then you won't have to waste 15 seconds of my life for a test not concerning me (no, I'm not angry…) also try the sandbox, which is in Wikipedia space I think. Emptying this right now. Airplaneman   ✈  22:28, 2 June 2010 (UTC)
 * There's a Unlink thing in TW or FR, use that.--  m oo,ooo n o   celebrating 10,000 edits 22:30, 2 June 2010 (UTC)
 * How? Does it replace the assessment and perform other maintenance and reassess if need be? Does it clean up the article in the process and clean up formatting? If so, I'd love to learn how (I tried and it just said "give reason", nothing about replacing this or that). Airplaneman   ✈  22:50, 2 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Dream on. It only delinks the template.   m oo,ooo n o   celebrating 10,000 edits 22:52, 2 June 2010 (UTC)
 * That's what I thought ;). Airplaneman   ✈  22:58, 2 June 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm proudly celebrating 23,000 :p Airplaneman   ✈  22:58, 2 June 2010 (UTC)
 * User talk:Sandbox for user warnings.  — fetch ·  comms   23:29, 3 June 2010 (UTC)

WP:AIV
First, thanks for your good work with spotting and fighting vandalism. An advice: don't start with level-4 warning unless for grossly defamatory edits and don't rush to report to AIV after 2 edits. Sure you can, and sure some will get blocked, but many will be declined with a progressively chilly response to your further reports. Materialscientist (talk) 05:10, 3 June 2010 (UTC)
 * OK. I've seen a technique used where some editors jump to a Level 2/3 warning with vandalism.  Is that acceptable?--   m ooooo n o   17:03, 3 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Well according to WP:UTM, level one, we assume good faith, level two, we assume no faith, and level three is assuming bad faith, if I remember correctly. It sort of depends on your own judgement, but if it is extremely bad-faith vandalism, it may be reasonable to start on level 2 or sometimes, 3.  Bramble  claw  x   21:12, 3 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I knew that. Anyway, I feel the "unconstructive" stuff is way too soft for people who came only to vandalize.  Testing is different...   m o n o   21:15, 3 June 2010 (UTC)
 * True about level-faith relation above. Thus usually the level depends on the edit. We try to accept good faith for the first one-two. For example, if editor deleted a paragraph without a summary, the paragraph might be wrong and thus level-1; if they deleted half of a word or of a reference, then its certainly bad, but could still be an accident, thus still level 1 or 2; if they typed jhlhjl, again, its just a test, but if they typed really bad words, then maybe level 3, etc. Materialscientist (talk) 21:36, 3 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Ok, sounds good...  m o n o   21:40, 3 June 2010 (UTC)

(complain) links
Hi Mono. Not to be a bother, but I would like to ask that you change the (complain) links in your edit summaries to something less offensive-sounding (eg. "discuss" or something). I'm not particularly upset by it, but new users looking for help could be turned off. Thanks in advance, Juliancolton (talk) 18:04, 3 June 2010 (UTC)
 * I would have to second this statement. A complain button is not a good thing to include in your edit summaries. ~ Nerdy Science Dude  (✉ • ✐) 18:10, 3 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Done. It may show up as complain for a little while due to caching.   m o n o   19:26, 3 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Mono, this is just a minor problem, but it currently reads "Edit summary( Discuss)", when it shoudl be "Edit sy=ummary (Discuss)". (Spacing) I do apologise if I sound like I'm nagging.  Bramble  claw  x   22:17, 3 June 2010 (UTC)
 * llI yrt to ifx ti laetr.  m o n o   22:46, 3 June 2010 (UTC)

RE: Logo
Sure I can! I assume by your sig that you would like the colors to be red, gold, and purple? I will try to make a logo that matches your current page. Ill whip one up, and let you see it. Please tell me if you want changes.

Cheers,

-- Wyatt 915  ✍  22:00, 4 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Yeah, that would be good! Thanks,  m o n o   22:14, 4 June 2010 (UTC)

Marriage
I would like to add some links to Marriage. I would like you to take a look at this first. I found this website in the internet. http://nomarriage.flippertv.com/No%20Marriage.pdf http://nomarriage.flippertv.com/Fire%20Your%20Wife.pdf http://nomarriage.flippertv.com http://www.nomarriage.com --Marriageamericanwomen (talk) 23:50, 4 June 2010 (UTC)
 * See our policy on external links. For info about specific links, make a request at this page.  m o n o   23:52, 4 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Your site seems to fall under WP:ELNO. Read that over carefully and perhaps ask at WP:ELN.  m o n o   23:57, 4 June 2010 (
 * Maybe you should leave a talkback for the asking user.  Bramble  claw  x   00:03, 5 June 2010 (UTC)

Template junk
Who has been helped? The help me template is for you to use, Mono, if you need help from other users. No one helped you an we don't know yet if you have helped. Confused --Jubilee♫ clipman  00:12, 5 June 2010 (UTC)
 * @jc: I created the template! You'd think I'd know how to use it...   m o n o   00:14, 5 June 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm confused... where did the template come from? Was it inserted by you, or was it inserted by the sking user?  Bramble  claw  x   00:15, 5 June 2010 (UTC)
 * The asking user inserted the template; I replaced it with the "helped" template after helping the user.  m o n o   00:17, 5 June 2010 (UTC)
 * m o n o  00:24, 5 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Good idea, bcx.  m o n o   00:31, 5 June 2010 (UTC)

Your warning
Mono, are you as concerned as I am concerned about your concern over my edits regarding this particular graph over here that you're friend P of L has kindly shown me to provide some sort of information about my edits? Then I have the perfect solution to your little problem. :| TelCo  NaSp  Ve :|  00:55, 5 June 2010 (UTC)
 * No, I am not.  m o n o   01:22, 5 June 2010 (UTC)
 * TeleCom, I honestly think Mono was trying to help you. I know I was. That's not editcountitis. It is actually a policy and users do actually get in trouble for myspacing. I don't think your case is nearly as bad as most, but it's something worth considering. We are here (or supposed to be) for building an encyclopedia, not making the best userpage. (That was not dissing userpages {I happen to like mine}, but an example) PrincessofLlyr  royal court 01:38, 5 June 2010 (UTC)
 * I find it helpful to recieve "steering" and reminders of why we're here. pol seems to have stated what I meant; I didn't really even mention your edit count; it is a quick and cruel way to measure contribs. Since you are "clueless" (as you said on your talkpage), and haven't read the policies, let me guide you towards adoption. Essentially, it's mentoring from an experienced editor, which is really helpful for new users.  I know you're just learning the ropes; I've noticed new users tend to be rather myspacey. Anyway, welcome to Wikipedia! Good luck,   m o n o   02:19, 5 June 2010 (UTC)

I think I'm dumb ; Mono doesn't agree
Dear Mono:

I just wanted to thank you thank you for responding to my questions about PJTF in April. I went back today to closely re-read my talk page, and realized that in fact you had answered the questions under my "Additional Questions" header that I originally thought PrincessofLlyr had answered. In fact, I thought that your only response to me was "woof!" in response to the final question I asked (which should explain why I re-contacted you about answering questions shortly before your retirement- a rather dumb-a**, naively posed but well-intended request.) Sorry about not realizing this earlier!!! And thanks again for your helpfulness:)

loafysam (talk) 02:31, 5 June 2010 (UTC)
 * You're not dumb. I'm glad I could be of help; research is very interesting.  Anyway, if you need anything else just let me know.  :p,   m o n o   02:41, 5 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks Mono! If you do like researchers I hope you don't mind answering a few more questions I have about PJTF, specifically about your role in it.

Are/were you initially a fan of the series? Did you mainly take PJTF work up because it was desperately needed? What was the very first thing that comes to mind when you recall the moment (or whatever it was) when you realized, well, I'm going to spend a lot of time and effort on this task force!

What was your inspiration for creating the PJTF template (circa Feb. 2010, the current look that it has now)? How did you collaborate with others (or not) to develop this look?

Also, are you willing to work with PJTF for years, if needed? I know that PJTF recently held a roll call for new editors, and someone on the PJTF Talk page had a question about enforcing work (in response to your section "Our Staffing Problem".) How does PJTF plan to enforce contributions and membership?

Thanks for your help and also for that link to research in WP. If you're interested, here's my research methodology (mentioned in the essay.) Cheers, loafysam (talk) 15:35, 5 June 2010 (UTC)
 * I suppose I was initially a fan of the series.
 * PJTF work wasn't desperately needed; I joined to see how things worked and to get to know the community.
 * I felt (for the template) that we needed to communicate our current work better.
 * PJTF will eventually run out of work; I am more focused on WP:APPLE right now.
 * I suggested and implemented the roll call, as PJTF needs participants willing to participate.
 * It is a loose system, so we won't be checking everything. However, it sets a tone for the projects.

m o n o  19:45, 5 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Do you mind? I would say too that the "requirements" might discourage users who are really just fans. That's the difference between us, we're editors first and fans second. They're fans first. That's just my take. PrincessofLlyr  royal court 20:16, 5 June 2010 (UTC)
 * That's exactly what I meant. Btw, pol, you don't have to use tps for me; just jump in.  m o n o   20:17, 5 June 2010 (UTC)

The Report
Please don't move a WP Report interview for someone else unless the report is overdue and you know the editor has disappeared. The interview for WP Comedy hasn't been closed yet and I still have all weekend to get it ready for publication. Furthermore, your note about the proposed redesign is a tad long-winded and downright condescending. The WP Report is a team effort, which doesn't sit well with the phrases "My goal is to modernize the way we report" and "I'd like to thank all the interviewers and interviewees." If I remember correctly, you rage quit on the Report after Pretzels and I wouldn't let you rearrange the WikiProject Desk to your liking. You've only conducted interviews for two articles and I ended up having to write both intros for you (one of those interviews I published after you quit and briefly "retired" from Wikipedia). You like to add boxes, templates, and pictures to everything, but what we really need more than anything else are editors who want to write articles. -Mabeenot (talk) 05:57, 5 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Noted.  m o n o   19:39, 5 June 2010 (UTC)

Template talk:Administrator topicon
I've replied here. Connormah (talk &#124; contribs) 20:15, 5 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the clarification. Connormah (talk &#124; contribs) 20:21, 5 June 2010 (UTC)

Re: WikiProject Animals Signpost Interview
Hello Mono. I think you may be mistaken. Was it someone else? If not, can you give me the diff? --The High Fin Sperm Whale 00:09, 6 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Sorry. I originally wrote it to the one who requested the interview.  However, could you head over to the interview page and perhaps answer some questions? Cheers,   m o n o   00:11, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

Warnings
Mono, please calm down. Don't issue a level four if the user is testing, and hasn't been told about the sandbox before.  Bramble  claw  x   02:19, 6 June 2010 (UTC)
 * This is clearly just testing, right?--  m o n o   02:23, 6 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Not testing, but not a level 4 offense.  — fetch ·  comms   02:27, 6 June 2010 (UTC)
 * I gave that edit a 3 and they vanded/tested again, so I jumped to a 4. We can count, right?   m o n o   02:29, 6 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Mono, I like your no-nonsense approach to dealing with vandals, but seeing as all of the user's previous edits were self-reverted, they would likely have reverted it quickly. I know those were offensive comments, and I know I should've studied their contribs more carefully before welcoming, but I think issuing a level 4, then notifying them of a sandbox doesn't make sense. To sum it up, I just think it would've been better to mention the sandbox first. I admit my own fault in not checking their contribs, but I feel from their edit pattern that a lesser warning would have sufficed. That's my opinion, you're entitled to yours. I'm just expressing what I think.  Bramble  claw  x   02:31, 6 June 2010 (UTC)


 * Give them a few minutes after the warning. You added those warnings so quickly after each other that you conflicted me thrice.  Bramble  claw  x   02:31, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

Uh. They're self-reverting multiple times, so issue them a self-revert notice. Then if they keep doing it anyway, issue a 3/4.  — fetch ·  comms   02:32, 6 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Mono, I think you're going along the lines of this, but a little overzealously. I think it's BITE-y to go straight to level four for the diff you mentioned above. Airplaneman   ✈  03:35, 6 June 2010 (UTC)
 * I did not issue a level 4 warning initially. I issued a level 3 warning, then issued a level 4 warning after another bit of vandalism.    mo no so ck   03:44, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

Misuse of CSD templates
Please read the CSD template rationale carefully, they are narrowly defined. Recently, you have been using CSD:U2 as a rationale for deleting userpages of IP users, however, CSD:U2 clearly states "User pages of users that do not exist (check Special:Listusers), except userpages for anonymous users who have edited, redirects from misspellings of an established user's userpage, and for the previous name of a recently renamed user (which should normally be left as a redirect to the new name for a reasonable time)."(bold mine) Anon users with static IP addresses are allowed to maintain their own userpages just as registerred users are. The CSD:U2 is only really for userpages for which no username exists. -- Jayron  32  04:57, 7 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Thank you for making me aware of that. It is not often that you see IP addresses maintaining userpages; I'd never seen one before today.  Cheers,   m o n o   05:02, 7 June 2010 (UTC)
 * True, it does not often happen, but it is not specifically dissallowed under any Wikipedia rules. There are some users that are vehemently against registering an account, and it is within their rights to not do so.  Anyhoo, keep up the good work, just be a tad more careful when using the CSD templates.  -- Jayron  32  05:17, 7 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks for clarifying.  mo no so ck   17:04, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

Wikipedia_Signpost/2010-06-07/From_the_team
Any room to mention to the book editions of the Signpost? Headbomb {talk / contribs / physics / books} 06:28, 7 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Sure! I knew we had those, however, I forgot to include that.   mo no so ck   17:03, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

Re: MacBook Air

 * Lead needs to be expanded
 * Rename "Overview" section to something else. "Overview" is too generic for a section name. The entire article is technically a summary/overview of the topic.
 * "Technical problems" seems too bias a section name. Try renaming to something else; perhaps under a "Reception" section. Public reviews can also go there, both positive and negative.
 * The sections with the big tables and graphs should be the bottom sections (that's my own opinion), right before "See also", since they take the longest to scroll over. The more compact text sections should go before those.

Gary King ( talk ) 21:41, 7 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Thank you.   m o n o   21:42, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

Your replies on the Help Desk
Thanks for responding to a couple of questions on the help desk recently - it's always good to see people responding there!

However, I'm going to be a blunt here - your last two answers weren't particularly helpful, in my opinion! Let me explain why I say that (and please don't take this as criticism, it's meant to be helpful advice for the future!)


 * Wikipedia:Help desk: the question was about why using PNG would be preferable to using a JPG for a photograph. You used the template - but I feel that saying that the user could edit it didn't answer the query. To be honest, I don't know the answer to the user's question (I've not looked into it), but they probably can't create a PNG image! I would also guess that  might also be a bit miffed to be templated, considering that they are an admin with almost 140K edits over the last 3-1/2 years!
 * Wikipedia:Help desk: the question was about protecting the iPhone article because of persistent "vandalism". You correctly replied that articles are not locked unless there is lots of vandalism, but then again used the 'fix' template - the user had said that they had reverted, but didn't want to keep doing that! I feel that the first part of the answer was spot on, but I would have referred them to the article's talk page in the first instance, and then if it continued, perhaps to go to WP:RFPP.

Again, this is not meant to be critical - I just thought I'd let you know what I was thinking - YMMV! --  Phantom Steve / talk &#124; contribs \ 19:55, 8 June 2010 (UTC)
 * On the first message, my intended meaning was since (as far as I could see) there was no need for the template. Therefore, my point was that "since it was incorrect, you can fix it by editing." On the second question, I began with an explanation of why pages are protected, then my intended point was "if there is misinformation, you can fix it by editing." I'll be more clear about my messages in the future. Smiles,  m o n o   20:41, 8 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Mono, what happened to WP:DTTR for the umpteenth time? :( For instance, I usually reserve template message use only for welcoming and vandals. And I left a couple suggestions for MacBook Air a few weeks ago that you could still work on, Airplaneman   ✈  20:38, 8 June 2010 (UTC)
 * I don't need talkback messages from you because iStalk your talk page :) Airplaneman   ✈  20:54, 8 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Did you ever see User_talk:Mono/Archive_12?  m o n o   20:56, 8 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Yup. Didn't feel like dragging on the issue, but since you brought it up again, I think a level three was still too strong. I would have done a level one, maybe two, and then skip to three or four if they continued. About MBA again - Note 3 says "The Adamo is 9987.99mm thick", which I highly doubt. Probably a vandal's work. I'm doing some work on the tech specs table right now. The lead needs expansion, but I think you should worry about it after filling out the rest of the article, most notably the reception section, so you can have a summary of the rest of the article in the intro. Airplaneman   ✈  21:10, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

←Likely subtle vandalism... m o n o  21:16, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

BDAV
Hello, you declined my requests to redirect BDAV (container format) and BDAV MPEG-2 Transport Stream to .m2ts article. You wrote: ''The title you suggested seems unlikely. Could you provide a source showing that it is a commonly used alternate name? Try BDAV instead.''

Your suggested redirection BDAV -> m2ts is wrong. The term "BDAV" is also used for one of two common Blu-ray video disc formats. But it is also used for the BDAV container format.

I already provided a source showing that it is a commonly used alternate name:
 * the official Blu-ray specification - http://www.blu-raydisc.com/assets/Downloadablefile/BD-ROM-AV-WhitePaper_100604%281%29-15916.pdf
 * glossary of AfterDawn.com - http://www.afterdawn.com/glossary/term.cfm/bdav

Here are more references: --89.173.66.229 (talk) 05:48, 9 June 2010 (UTC)
 * http://www.file-extensions.org/m2ts-file-extension
 * http://filext.com/file-extension/M2TS
 * http://www.fileinfo.com/extension/m2ts
 * http://www.videohelp.com/hd
 * http://www.videohelp.com/glossary?M#M2T,%20m2ts,%20mts
 * http://www.blu-raydisc.com/Assets/Downloadablefile/2b_bdrom_audiovisualapplication_0305-12955-15269.pdf
 * http://www.blu-raydisc.com/Assets/Downloadablefile/bdj_gem_application_definition-15496.pdf
 * Hello. My rationale was "most people won't look for BDAV (container format), rather they'd want to find a redirect at BDAV" so I declined your request. Since nothing existed at BDAV, I suggested it, not knowing a lot about the formats.  In this case, you may want to submit a DISAMB page at  Article_wizard/Disambiguation.  Thanks,   m o n o   05:55, 9 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Thank you for answer. I will try to create a disambiguation page, but I will also try to create the same redirection through redirects for creation.--89.173.66.229 (talk) 06:05, 9 June 2010 (UTC)

The Wikipedia Signpost: 7 June 2010
<div style="margin-top:10px; font-size:90%; padding-left:5px; font-family:Georgia, Palatino, Palatino Linotype, Times, Times New Roman, serif;">Read this Signpost in full &middot; Single-page &middot; Unsubscribe &middot; EdwardsBot (talk) 12:00, 9 June 2010 (UTC)

WikiCup 2010 April newsletter
Round two is over, and we are down to our final 32. For anyone interested in the final standings (though not arranged by group) this page has been compiled. Congratulations to, our clear overall round winner, and to and , who were solidly second and third respectively. There were a good number of high scorers this round- competition was certainly tough! Round three begins tomorrow, but anything promoted after the end of round two is eligible for points. 16 contestants (eight pool leaders and eight wildcards) will progress to round four in two months- things are really starting to get competitive. Anything you worry may not receive the necessary attention before the end of the round (such as outstanding GA or FA nominations) is welcome at WikiCup/Reviews, and please remember to continue offering reviews yourself where possible. As always, the judges are available to contact via email, IRC or their talk pages, and general discussion about the Cup is welcome on the WikiCup talk page.

Judge iMatthew has retired from Wikipedia, and we wish him the best. The competition has been ticking over well with minimal need for judge intervention, so thank you to everyone making that possible. A special thank you goes to participants and  for their help in preparing for round three. Good luck everyone! If you wish to start receiving or stop receiving this newsletter, please feel free to add or remove yourself from WikiCup/Newsletter/Send. J Milburn, Fox and The ed17 17:34, 30 April 2010 (UTC)

WikiCup 2010 May newsletter
We are half way through round 3, with a little under a month to go. The current overall leader is, who has 570 points. He leads pool C. Pools A, B and D are led by, and  respectively. Anything you worry may not receive the necessary attention before the end of the round (such as outstanding GA or FA nominations) is welcome at WikiCup/Reviews, and please remember to continue offering reviews yourself where possible. As always, the judges are available to contact via email, IRC or their talk pages, and general discussion about the Cup is welcome on the WikiCup talk page.

Two of last year's final 8, and, have dropped out of the competition, saying they would rather their place went to someone who will have more time on their hands than them next round. On a related note, a special thank you goes to for his help behind the scenes once again. There is currently a problem with the poster, perhaps caused by the new skin- take a look at this discussion and see if you can help. The competition has continued to tick over well with minimal need for judge intervention, so thank you to everyone making that possible. Good luck to all! If you wish to start receiving or stop receiving this newsletter, please feel free to add or remove yourself from WikiCup/Newsletter/Send. J Milburn, Fox and The ed17 20:49, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

Backlog Elimination Drive Wrap-up
Oh bot, please archive this. m o n o  17:48, 9 June 2010 (UTC)

Oh bot, thank you. m o n o  17:48, 9 June 2010 (UTC)