User talk:Montanabw/Archive 13

The welcome cookies you gave me..
Thank you! Saddleseatequitation (talk) 18:51, 30 December 2015 (UTC)

Gnu Ear Greetings
GROAN! That one is a winner... of what, I am not certain. Pun of the year? Montanabw (talk) 06:13, 31 December 2015 (UTC)

Fox hunting
I don't think this article fits happily into Category:British society. It's intended to be an international article. Rathfelder (talk) 11:48, 31 December 2015 (UTC)
 * That may be true, but the sport does unequivocally originate in Britain. It is practiced in other countries, but it's not as important socially in America, except in some places on the East Coast that have very strong traditions dating back to the 1700s. White Arabian Filly  ( Neigh ) 21:01, 31 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Yeah, that's my take also. shall we move this discussion to the article talk page?  Montanabw (talk)  21:02, 31 December 2015 (UTC)


 * I've moved it to Category:Rural society in the United Kingdom and improved the treatment of Category:Fox hunting. Is that a reasonable balance?Rathfelder (talk) 22:06, 31 December 2015 (UTC)


 * Seems reasonable to me.  Montanabw (talk)  22:14, 31 December 2015 (UTC)

Happy New Year, Montanabw!


Happy New Year! Montanabw, Have a prosperous, productive and enjoyable New Year, and thanks for your contributions to Wikipedia. Liz Read! Talk! 22:58, 31 December 2015 (UTC)


 * Send New Year cheer by adding {{subst:Happy New Year fireworks}} to user talk pages.

Found a bunch.
https://www.google.com/culturalinstitute/asset-viewer/bucking-horse-and-cowgirl/nAGhMKane3un7w?projectId=art-projectHafspajen (talk) 22:28, 31 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Check out my page, it's fantastic, he is great, much better thing then we have on commons, top quality too. Hafspajen (talk) 22:38, 31 December 2015 (UTC)


 * One problem is these sites aren't matching up the correct titles to the paintings. Montanabw (talk)  22:57, 31 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Well, the titles can always be corrected on the way. Hafspajen (talk) 23:23, 31 December 2015 (UTC)

A kitten for you!
i meant happy new year hope it is magical

United kingdoms my home (talk) 00:05, 1 January 2016 (UTC) 

Happy New Year, Montanabw!


Happy New Year! Montanabw, Have a prosperous, productive and enjoyable New Year, and thanks for your contributions to Wikipedia. Rubbish computer (Merry Christmas!: ...And a Happy New Year!) 02:17, 1 January 2016 (UTC)


 * Send New Year cheer by adding {{subst:Happy New Year fireworks}} to user talk pages.

Happy New Year

 * Spread the WikiLove; use {{subst:Happy New Year elves}} to send this message

Happy New Year, Montanabw!


Happy New Year! Montanabw, Have a prosperous, productive and enjoyable New Year, and thanks for your contributions to Wikipedia. – Davey 2010 Merry Xmas / Happy New Year 10:53, 1 January 2016 (UTC)


 * Send New Year cheer by adding {{subst:Happy New Year fireworks}} to user talk pages.

New article for a new year
I created Road to the Horse; it's now a big enough thing in horseland to meet notability. It's totally a stub, so you and feel free to expand. I'll see if I can find a YouTube video for an external link to it. Happy new year! 🎆🎇🎉🎊 White Arabian Filly  ( Neigh ) 20:29, 1 January 2016 (UTC)

I think we already have that article... or was it deleted and recreated? Montanabw (talk) 20:45, 1 January 2016 (UTC)
 * It must have been deleted if it existed before, because when I searched I didn't bring up anything except mentions at Robert M. Miller and Stacy Westfall. By the way, the Clinton Anderson link leads to some government official, not the trainer. White Arabian Filly  ( Neigh ) 20:54, 1 January 2016 (UTC)
 * Forgive me, and, but I'm still working on the New Year celebrations. SMirC-party.svg Atsme 📞📧 23:06, 1 January 2016 (UTC)
 * Heh, glad you're having them! I didn't intend to stay up last night but ended up doing it anyway because the championship football game was on late and then the neighbors kept shooting off fireworks. (The stock dogs were probably lying in the barn covering their heads with their paws.) By the way, we don't appear to have articles for any of the winners of Road to the Horse, except Stacy Westfall. All the links lead to different people or disambigs.  White Arabian Filly  ( Neigh ) 23:23, 1 January 2016 (UTC)


 * Yes we do, most of them, but they need work.  Montanabw (talk)  23:30, 1 January 2016 (UTC)

Because you thanked me
00:13, 2 January 2016 (UTC)

Broken link
In University of Montana was an external link with a line break. There were error messages in the reference section "Check |url= value", "line feed character in |url= at position 124". I removed this line feed and the link was working. Why have you reverted this fix to the broken link? --GünniX (talk) 08:38, 2 January 2016 (UTC)


 * Was chasing a vandal and missed your fixes. I reverted myself!  Sorry!   Montanabw <sup style="color:purple;">(talk)  08:40, 2 January 2016 (UTC)

Plain: 2016 year of the reader and peace
Thank you for continued support, latest a tricky DYK nom, with my review, and the peace bell by Yunshui! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:35, 31 December 2015 (UTC)

Click on bell for the soft sound of peace (and jest) ;) - the cantata was now on the Main page, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:10, 2 January 2016 (UTC)

Seabiscuit (film)
Your recent edit to the article on Seabiscuit (film) restored the words "an undersized and overlooked" to the description of the horse Seabiscuit. According to your edit summary: Well, he was small and he was overlooked, that's verified by other sources and part of his popularity IRL.

If you look at the article on War Admiral, it says:
 * The 2003 movie Seabiscuit features the match race between Seabiscuit and War Admiral. The film portrays War Admiral at 18 hands (72 in, or 183 cm) even though War Admiral and Seabiscuit were about the same size with Seabiscuit standing at 15.2 hands and outweighing War Admiral 1040 to 960 lbs

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 * }

Thanks for your comments
Thanks for the repeated wake-ups. Would you like to discuss? --Ronz (talk) 16:02, 24 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Responding at your page.  Montanabw <sup style="color:orange;">(talk)  16:56, 25 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Sound like a good idea. --Ronz (talk) 15:37, 26 March 2016 (UTC)

Happy Easter!

 * Thanks . Hmmm.  Having a connection to Doncaster Round Barn amuses me the most, (via the sire of Bend Or, and very impressive breeding...   but I am clearly missing something... help... hint...?   Montanabw <sup style="color:orange;">(talk)  21:35, 26 March 2016 (UTC)
 * I was just referring to Bend Or. I thought it was funny that he went to a famous Thoroughbred. (Why don't they mention that in any of the books? It's probably in that $100 TWH-only book I can't afford to buy--unless it's on a really good sale.) White Arabian Filly  Neigh 21:39, 26 March 2016 (UTC)


 * Interlibrary Loan can be a beautiful thing... Montanabw <sup style="color:orange;">(talk)  22:23, 26 March 2016 (UTC)
 * My local library doesn't even really have books anymore; they just have DVDs and CDs! My best finds are at the used bookstore. I've found books by J. Frank Dobie, Clarence Mulford (the original Hopalong Cassidy), and Olympic riders like Mary Gordon-Watson. I have hopes it'll turn up there sooner or later. White Arabian Filly  Neigh 01:10, 27 March 2016 (UTC)
 * No matter how much the local content sucks, Interlibrary Loan is something that exists nationwide and allows participating libraries to get books from anywhere else in the country ( survives on it, I think). But I do love used bookstores too!   Montanabw <sup style="color:orange;">(talk)  03:40, 27 March 2016 (UTC)

Mail
You've got mail. — TransporterMan  ( TALK ) 05:24, 27 March 2016 (UTC)

Have a Happy Easter
Moar: Main Page history/2016 March 27, with thanks for your grown-up ARCA statement, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:35, 27 March 2016 (UTC)

DYK for Black Allan (horse)
<small style="color:#999;white-space:nowrap;text-shadow:lightgrey 0.3em 0.3em 0.15em;">&mdash; <big style="color:#ffa439">Coffee //  have a cup  //  beans  // 12:58, 28 March 2016 (UTC)

AfD of interest
WP:Articles for deletion/El Shahbaa. You may have a book or something to use for sources. My efforts at finding sources were "laughable". 😡 White Arabian Filly  Neigh 20:48, 28 March 2016 (UTC)
 * She's an Al Khamsa foundation mare - she's listed in AK Arabians II on page 58. Might check with their site. I already packed my Forbis books up (don't get me started on Forbis) so I'm not much help there. The mare is going to be of marginal notability I'd guess. The AKII listing doesn't give any details on her beyond her breeding and when she was purchased (unlike entries for other horses which give more details). Ealdgyth - Talk 21:55, 28 March 2016 (UTC)
 * MBW - I'm out of sources for her. She wasn't behind my stallion so I don't really have any magazine articles for her and my Forbis is packed (and all I have is Classic Arabian Horse, not Bloodstock). I gots nothing to add so nothing to add to the AfD. Ealdgyth - Talk 17:05, 29 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Ah, the dear Judith Forbis (anyone who wears a turban for 50 years and lives in Arkansas ... Okay), but maybe if you could pop by the Afd and make a fast comment, that would help. Google books has Forbis/Classic and we have already added an excerpt there. WAF found some source material.  It's the usual nasty deletionist argument going on there.   Montanabw <sup style="color:orange;">(talk)  17:07, 29 March 2016 (UTC)

Talk page stalkers
Would an experienced user or Admin, assess the consensus HERE and move the page if deemed so?<span style="text-shadow: 4px 4px 15px #FF9900, -4px -4px 15px #FF0099;"><b style="color:#0000FF;">VictoriaGrayson</b><b style="font-family:Helvetica Neue;color:#707">Talk</b> 19:11, 29 March 2016 (UTC)

Re: that ANI close
Good call, and good point in your closing statement. I'd actually not even realized that we'd suddenly lost 3 editors in that dispute. I started a discussion at WT:SOCK regarding the use of WP:FAMILY that seemed to really trigger things, arguing that some change or clarification might prevent that sort of statement in the future. You might be interested in joining. —/M endaliv /2¢/Δ's/ 02:59, 30 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Thanks, it was heating up more than settling down. Yeah, check the talk pages of the users involved.  Three just quit. They might be back, but it could be awhile.   Montanabw <sup style="color:orange;">(talk)  03:02, 30 March 2016 (UTC)

"The Cloisters" at ANI
Thanks for your close of this, but one thing you wrote confused me a bit, that three editors had indicated a desire to retire from WP because of it. I didn't get that from the discussion, and I certainly hope you're not referring to me as one of them. I did (and do) want to stay away from the discussion, but it'll take a lot more than Alansohn's and DrChrissy's fervid dislike of me to leave Wikipedia. Did I miss something in the discussion?

Hope you're well, Best, BMK (talk) 04:53, 30 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Oh, I just saw the thread above this one, so let me take a look at the talk pages of the participants. BMK (talk) 04:55, 30 March 2016 (UTC)
 * So, you're talking about Kafka Liz, Victoriaearle and... Ceoil?? I don't know the editing of the first two and have nothing against them (and certainly didn't know that KL & C were partners)and Ceoil I only know a little bit. (Or am I wrong, and Ceoil is not the third person you're referring to?) In any case, if these are editors whose contributions you value, take solace in the fact that most retirements -- at least in my experience -- are not permanent.  Wikipedia is a wickedly hard addiction to kick, especially if you use it as a source (which most of the English-speaking world does) and so is exposed to it every time you look up a fact.  Then you see something wrong that needs to be fixed, and whammo, you're editing again. I've tried, and never lasted very long. BMK (talk) 05:06, 30 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Yep, you've got the gist of it right. I don't think it was because of anything you personally said or did, but the comment I reference in the thread above (and Montanabw referenced in her closing summary at ANI) seems to have done it. Sucks to see it happen. —/M endaliv /2¢/Δ's/ 05:37, 30 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Victoriaearle blanked her page, Ceoil blanked his page and KafkaLiz put up a "retired" banner. Yes, I think that it was one of the other people's comments at the ANI that prompted this. I hope you are right and that they will return.    Montanabw <sup style="color:orange;">(talk)  06:09, 30 March 2016 (UTC)

DYK for Flim Flam (horse)
Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 00:13, 30 March 2016 (UTC)

Thanks for all your help 💗 Horsegeek (talk) 22:25, 30 March 2016 (UTC)Horsegeek

Congrats...
Was finally getting ready to chime in at the FAC and I'm of course too late to support. Congrats though.--MONGO 22:39, 30 March 2016 (UTC)


 * Next time, perhaps!  Montanabw <sup style="color:orange;">(talk)  22:47, 30 March 2016 (UTC)

WikiProject Wales/Awaken the Dragon
Hi, I was wondering if you could help produce a few articles towards this in April? The idea is that people can use the Amazon vouchers to buy books for their future projects. I'm sure the getting articles to GA is compatible with the WikiCup too!♦ Dr. Blofeld  16:55, 30 March 2016 (UTC)


 * Would Welsh pony to GA help?  Montanabw <sup style="color:orange;">(talk)  17:31, 30 March 2016 (UTC)

Montanabw, good luck on that Wikicup! Horsegeek (talk) 22:53, 31 March 2016 (UTC)Horsegeek

Impact
--Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:18, 1 April 2016 (UTC)

AfD
Hi : A recent edit you performed at AfD has been reverted. You may want to check it out. North America1000 04:43, 1 April 2016 (UTC)
 * And the Tomfoolery begins... Montanabw <sup style="color:orange;">(talk)  05:43, 1 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Enjoy! The sideways smiley face.gif North America1000 05:49, 1 April 2016 (UTC)


 * Hey, I know you like horses, but what about unicorns? North America1000 15:38, 1 April 2016 (UTC)
 * NOT MORE (expletive deleted) UNICORNS! NOOOOO! (lol) =:-O  See:  User talk:Montanabw/Magic unicorns.  21:12, 2 April 2016 (UTC)
 * If I can briefly distract you from unicorns, take a look at Mouse!  Ϣere Spiel  Chequers  17:36, 1 April 2016 (UTC)
 * What a great April Fool's day, all! Thanks!  Montanabw <sup style="color:orange;">(talk)  21:12, 2 April 2016 (UTC)

About Women
Hi Montanabw. I'm an editor of the Italian Wikipedia. I'm trying to participate to an IEG with the project "Women are everywhere". You will find the draft at this link https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:IEG/Women_are_everywhere It would be great if you could have a look at it. I need any kind of suggestion or advice to improve it. Support or endorsement would be fantastic. Many thanks,--Kenzia (talk) 17:17, 3 April 2016 (UTC)

Houston, we have a problem...
Template:Did you know nominations/Spark (horse) is trying to say that this horse (who may have been imported in the 1740s) was the first American thoroughbred race horse. That's Bull Rock, however, who came over in 1730. (see Thoroughbred for sourcing). I've objected on the DYK page but... if others have better sources, this would be the time to bring them forward. Ealdgyth - Talk 22:13, 3 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Further on Bulle Rock - International Museum of the Horse, Britannica, and Colonial Williamsburg. Ealdgyth - Talk 22:39, 3 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Oh crap. I saw this at ANI--the nominator was trying to bully the article creator and was shoving their DYKs in their face. And yes, I have at least one book to back up Bull Rock being the first Thoroughbred racehorse in the US. Their hook is inaccurate. White Arabian Filly  Neigh 14:59, 4 April 2016 (UTC)

Thank you for contributing to A+F
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Category issues
Ok - so take a peek at this File:Quarter Horse trotting.jpg which was just categorized as Category: Quarter Horse racing. Can we possibly resolve that issue somehow? <span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.3em 0.6em,#BFFF00 0.8em 0.8em 0.6em; color:#A2006D;">Atsme 📞📧 16:25, 31 March 2016 (UTC)


 * Just change the category, people are not good at doing this. (If it's housed at Commons, go there.  If it' copyrighted, tag it for deletion.   Montanabw <sup style="color:orange;">(talk)  18:01, 31 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Just wrong category. So what category do we have to choose from?  Maybe we need to create some Commons categories, which I don't know how to do, but I bet I find somebody who can.  The image is my work, I released it, so it's good to go.  It just needs the right category.  Thx!! <span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.3em 0.6em,#BFFF00 0.8em 0.8em 0.6em; color:#A2006D;">Atsme 📞📧 20:02, 31 March 2016 (UTC)
 * I'm pretty sure there's a category for just regular, non-racing Quarter Horses. Although I haven't uploaded anything, I have categorized some dog pictures that were in the unidentified category. By the way, that picture might be good for Western pleasure, the images there are crap.
 * Add I put in the correct cat, American Quarter Horse. It can probably also be put in the Western riding cat as well. White Arabian Filly  Neigh 20:49, 31 March 2016 (UTC)
 * The only Commons categories that I can find directly referencing American Quarter Horse are:
 * c:Category:American Quarter Horse
 * c:Category:American quarter horse - which is a redirect
 * c:Category:American Quarter Horse (history)
 * c:Category:American Quarter Horse Hall of Fame and Museum
 * c:Category:Conformational side views of American Quarter Horses
 * Of course it's possible to create a more precise category for File:Quarter Horse trotting.jpg, but as there are only 81 files presently in c:Category:American Quarter Horse, there's no pressure to diffuse its contents into sub-categories. Sadly there doesn't seem to be a category c:Category:Western riding, but it may be worth creating if there are several files that would fit in it and if you can find a suitable parent category (probably c:Category:Horse riding in the United States). Cheers --RexxS (talk) 22:14, 31 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Oh, they are all there c:Category:Western-style riding, etc... look for existing photos in articles and then follow the category tree.  The Commons gang created a lot of categories without having English as a first language Montanabw <sup style="color:orange;">(talk)  01:30, 1 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Fixed the categories, IMHO, though, the photo having all the background removed looks really weird.  Montanabw <sup style="color:orange;">(talk)  01:33, 1 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Well, Atsme has the original - that's her Photoshopped version, and we have to remember that the images will get used beyond Wikipedia, so a black background may sometimes be appropriate. It would not be difficult to make a png version that had a transparent background which would work nicely on its own, but could also be used to create collages, or to place the image against a different background, etc. You too could be seen trotting across the Mongolian Steppes! --RexxS (talk) 02:25, 1 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Fixed the categories, IMHO, though, the photo having all the background removed looks really weird.  Montanabw <sup style="color:orange;">(talk)  01:33, 1 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Well, Atsme has the original - that's her Photoshopped version, and we have to remember that the images will get used beyond Wikipedia, so a black background may sometimes be appropriate. It would not be difficult to make a png version that had a transparent background which would work nicely on its own, but could also be used to create collages, or to place the image against a different background, etc. You too could be seen trotting across the Mongolian Steppes! --RexxS (talk) 02:25, 1 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Well, Atsme has the original - that's her Photoshopped version, and we have to remember that the images will get used beyond Wikipedia, so a black background may sometimes be appropriate. It would not be difficult to make a png version that had a transparent background which would work nicely on its own, but could also be used to create collages, or to place the image against a different background, etc. You too could be seen trotting across the Mongolian Steppes! --RexxS (talk) 02:25, 1 April 2016 (UTC)


 * I think it is a good idea to have the image with its background as an option; for the aficionado, it is useful to remove distracting elements, but for someone who has never been to a horse show, the disembodied image looks really odd! :-)   Montanabw <sup style="color:orange;">(talk)  02:44, 1 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Noted. Will upload the background, as well as more horse picts that can be used for color ID, performance, halter, etc.  Also plan to upload some performance video and on another completely different note, some really cool underwater video.  Let me know if there's anything in particular you need because I have at least 20,000 images to choose from, or that I can acquire under a CC-BY-SA 4.0 license. <span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.3em 0.6em,#BFFF00 0.8em 0.8em 0.6em; color:#A2006D;">Atsme 📞📧 15:13, 4 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Can you find one for Racking Horse?! 🐎 White Arabian Filly  Neigh 15:37, 4 April 2016 (UTC)
 * I'll look - but I know I have video of it. I'll see if a frame capture will be suitable quality. <span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.3em 0.6em,#BFFF00 0.8em 0.8em 0.6em; color:#A2006D;">Atsme 📞📧 16:44, 4 April 2016 (UTC)

Even crappy screen captures beat no images. Video needs to be very short on WP because generally no one will watch a whole long video (I like 10-second clips, personally). I'd say take a tour through the WP horse articles and ask if you can improve on what's there. What we need the most are free images of well-known racehorses, especially the still-living ones where we aren't allowed to use fair use images. We also need images of the rarer horse breeds. I wouldn't mind better images for the American Quarter Horse article, that's one that could benefit from better-quality images and then an upgrade to GA status. Horse showmanship and Halter (horse show) might also benefit from some good show photos. I'd almost give my eyeteeth for good photos for Trail (horse show), Western riding (horse show) and better images at reining. Montanabw <sup style="color:orange;">(talk) 18:58, 4 April 2016 (UTC)
 * What's the market price for eyeteeth these days? <span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.3em 0.6em,#BFFF00 0.8em 0.8em 0.6em; color:#A2006D;">Atsme 📞📧 20:13, 4 April 2016 (UTC)


 * LOL! Probably about the same as what we get paid for our contributions to WP!   Montanabw <sup style="color:orange;">(talk)  22:50, 5 April 2016 (UTC)

Clinton Anderson
Getting ready to archive my talk page, so I have restored the page to Draft:Clinton Anderson (horse trainer) and removed the copy vio. Pinging, who is also interested. — Diannaa (talk) 12:49, 6 April 2016 (UTC)

Horse related Commons images
Images uploaded:

File:Red roan Quarter Horse.jpg

File:Youth Western riding.jpg

File:Terry Bradshaw-ImpressiveSteeler-Betty Wills.jpg

File:Terry Bradshaw, Louisiana.jpg

More to come! <span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.3em 0.6em,#BFFF00 0.8em 0.8em 0.6em; color:#A2006D;">Atsme 📞📧 23:27, 6 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Thanks! (And that's a neat one with you, Terry Bradshaw and his horse!) By the way, I think part of the issue with Commons is that most of the pictures aren't being categorized so we can find them. I just found 10 or 15 Saddlebred pictures that weren't in the Saddlebred cat. I categorized several of them, and will probably do more later. White Arabian Filly  Neigh 21:55, 7 April 2016 (UTC)


 * Don't even get me started on the mess that commons categories are! But getting images into them is important, however messy they are ...  Montanabw <sup style="color:orange;">(talk)  22:11, 7 April 2016 (UTC)

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Delete
How do you delete a page? Cause there's a subpage I don't want anymore and I don't know how to get rid of it. Horsegeek (talk) 00:21, 7 April 2016 (UTC)Horsegeek
 * Horsegeek, I am a page stalker on here. I think the first thing you need to do is say here, or on the article Talk page,  which page you want to delete and why.  There is an official process called AfD (articles for deletion), but you need to have discussed this elsewhere before going there. DrChrissy (talk) 00:32, 7 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Just blank the page if it's in your userspace. That will trigger a delete when an admin notices it. If you really want it deleted asap, then place  on the page which will probably speed it up. Criteria for speedy deletion  applies to any page where the only substantial content to the page was added by its author. HTH --RexxS (talk) 14:49, 7 April 2016 (UTC)
 * . . To delete your own pages, use: or  on the page(s) in question. Cheers!   04:04, 12 April 2016 (UTC)
 * But please note that db-owner / db-u1 does not apply to talk subpages: Criteria for speedy deletion . --RexxS (talk) 14:22, 12 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Hi, (with cc to  and ). Weird. It worked fine for me when I used it a couple of times. Why would they make a template that only works for a part of our user pages? Cheers!   19:05, 12 April 2016 (UTC)


 * for pretty much anything where you're the only contributor is generally fine. I think some admins might balk at deleting archives of your user talk page, but generally so long as the history of contribs are maintained at your main user talk page it shouldn't be a problem., as others have said, is for User:, but not (usually) User talk: pages. However, if you're like me, and you're drafting an article in your userspace, you use the user talk for that page as a scratch pad or storage for references. You can also do if you're not quite sure and it's in your own userspace. —/M endaliv /2¢/Δ's/ 19:11, 12 April 2016 (UTC)

Nevzorov
Dear Montanabw, I'm a newcomer here. I'd like to ask you why did you undo my changes about Nevzorov (12:44, 23 March 2016‎). You deleted his publications that I had added.

Sincerely Maria Mariaved (talk) 13:24, 13 April 2016 (UTC) Mariaved

Request
There is an important discussion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Editor Retention about possibly finding a way to salvage Single-purpose editors and transforming them into positive WP collaborators in the general mainspace. I'm sure you run in to many of them as you wander around WP. I'm also sure that every now and then one of the SPA editors rises above the crowd and seems worthy of more of your time and effort. Your personal insight and experience would be appreciated. WP:WER has become a relative ghost town (and I may be one of the few ghosts left in town) and User:Robert's idea may be just the boost the Project needs to revitalize. It's an opportunity for the Project to actually do something beyond handing out awards. I think Dennis Brown would like it. Please comment. <em style="font-family:Bradley Hand ITC;color:black">Buster Seven  <em style="font-family:Bradley Hand ITC;color:black"> Talk  14:23, 14 April 2016 (UTC)

Will do. Thanks for the ping. Montanabw <sup style="color:orange;">(talk) 20:47, 14 April 2016 (UTC)

Endometrial cup
Hey, I added a bit to endometrial cup - I'm a lot better with humans than other animals but I think it's okay. Have a look-see and let me know what you think. :) Keilana (talk) 18:46, 19 April 2016 (UTC)

hey
aside from the fact that I'm not real happy with you at the moment: I do give you credit for this — Ched :  ?  09:31, 20 April 2016 (UTC)


 * Thanks.  Montanabw <sup style="color:orange;">(talk)  15:48, 20 April 2016 (UTC)

Rangeland Management
Hi Montanabw, thank you so much for you assistance in creating the page for Rangeland management. I look forward to working under your guidance and greatly appreciate your offering to assist me in writing more entries and expanding this one (which I plan to do a lot of)!

Mmontanamcintosh (talk) 05:41, 24 April 2016 (UTC)


 * Glad to help. I'll put your talk page on my watchlist, but if you want me to respond faster, put a message on my talk page so I get a notification. I usually am on wikipedia daily, but lately (springtime in Montana, the busiest day of the year) I've gone a few times when I've been offline for a couple days.  My best advice is to find the best quality articles you can and then "steal" the formatting, the footnote style and so on.  It's kind of a steep learning curve at first but once you get the hang of it, you'll do fine.  I also suggest you pop over to WikiProject Montana, sign up and say hello at the talk page.  There are several Montana residents on wikipedia and several expats in the project as well.  We're all good folks and willing to help.    Montanabw <sup style="color:orange;">(talk)  06:43, 24 April 2016 (UTC)

Photography
--Rosiestep (talk) 12:33, 24 April 2016 (UTC) via MassMessage

(To subscribe, Women in Red/Invite list. Unsubscribe, Women in Red/Opt-out list)


 * Ah. kodak moments.   LOL!   Montanabw <sup style="color:orange;">(talk)  23:56, 24 April 2016 (UTC)

Gamaliel and others arbitration case opened
You recently offered a statement in a request for arbitration. The Arbitration Committee has accepted that request for arbitration and an arbitration case has been opened at Arbitration/Requests/Case/Gamaliel and others. The scope of this case is Gamaliel's recent actions (both administrative and otherwise), especially related to the Signpost April Fools Joke. The case will also examine the conduct of other editors who are directly involved in disputes with Gamaliel. The case is strictly intended to examine user conduct and alleged policy violations and will not examine broader topic areas. The clerks have been instructed to remove evidence which does not meet these requirements. The drafters will add additional parties as required during the case. Evidence that you wish the arbitrators to consider should be added to the evidence subpage, at Arbitration/Requests/Case/Gamaliel and others/Evidence.

Please add your evidence by May 2, 2016, which is when the evidence phase closes. You can also contribute to the case workshop subpage, Arbitration/Requests/Case/Gamaliel and others/Workshop. For a guide to the arbitration process, see Arbitration/Guide to arbitration. ''This notification is being sent to those listed on the case notification list. If you do not wish to recieve further notifications, you are welcome to opt-out on that page.'' For the Arbitration Committee, Kevin ( aka L235 ·&#32; t ·&#32; c) via MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 13:39, 18 April 2016 (UTC)


 * Thank goodness this has nothing at all to do with Lady Catherine's forthcoming nuptials. Vesuvius Dogg (talk) 00:21, 25 April 2016 (UTC)


 * LOL! Gotta love that one .. hey,,  your thoughts on the above link? What would Melania have to say about Lady Catherine?  SCOMN!   Montanabw <sup style="color:orange;">(talk)  00:27, 25 April 2016 (UTC)

Not exactly withdrawn ...
Hi! Not that it matters much, but you as withdrawn when really I was waiting for  or some other user to comment on the question of how the size is to be calculated. Perhaps re-open it until someone knowledgeable (you?) does that? If that editor is right, it's withdrawn; but if not, it should run – she's an interesting enough person. Thanks, Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 22:10, 3 May 2016 (UTC)


 * Oh! OK, will undo.  I was unclear on that, so I can reopen.  I can look at the word count and see if I can assess.  Fascinating person, indeed.   Montanabw <sup style="color:orange;">(talk)  22:12, 3 May 2016 (UTC)

Disney
Hi Montana, I've worked a little on the TV angle recently and made some key additions. As the changes were mixed up with others elsewhere in the article, I've dropped a before and after of the section in User:SchroCat/litter tray 8 for comparison. I've tried to avoid adding too much about the programme itself, but I have raised WD's profile within the show so it becomes clear that he moved from behind the camera to being an integral part of the cast, and the knock on effect on his image, etc. Please let me know if you think I've hit the right note on that aspect.

I still need to deal with his Disneyland work a little more, which I hope to be able to do today or tomorrow I've added some additional info on this, but still have a little more to do, I think. Cheers – SchroCat (talk) 09:44, 4 May 2016 (UTC)

Here's a nice story to lower your tension level a bit :)
http://www.nbcnews.com/nightly-news/video/in-this-inner-city-philadelphia-neighborhood-concrete-cowboys-ride-675838019897

I'd do a double-take if I ever saw someone riding a horse in my town. wbm1058 (talk) 00:54, 30 April 2016 (UTC)
 * I once saw two people riding horses down Main Street! I live in the country about 5 miles from a small town and it was still a big surprise. White Arabian Filly  Neigh 18:48, 30 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Different cultures indeed! I live in the middle of the concrete jungle that keeps Birmingham and Wolverhampton apart, but we have a huge number of horses (one local district is nick-named "the Ponderosa"). It's not uncommon to be stuck behind a horse and trap gently trotting along the High Street, or to see the Rag-and-bone man looking for scrap with his horse and cart. --RexxS (talk) 00:02, 1 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Different cultures indeed! I live in the middle of the concrete jungle that keeps Birmingham and Wolverhampton apart, but we have a huge number of horses (one local district is nick-named "the Ponderosa"). It's not uncommon to be stuck behind a horse and trap gently trotting along the High Street, or to see the Rag-and-bone man looking for scrap with his horse and cart. --RexxS (talk) 00:02, 1 May 2016 (UTC)


 * Fascinating. I wonder if the UK has smaller distances and lower speed limits that make horse-drawn conveyances still feasible?  I'm only about 7 miles from town, and in the wild west to boot, but there are a couple stretches of highway between home and town that have high speed limits and no shoulder -- they would be suicide to take a horse on. (I think even bicyclists risk their necks on one bit...)   Montanabw <sup style="color:orange;">(talk)  00:24, 1 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Hopefully they're not texting while driving those shoulder-less roads... automatic collision-avoidance systems will save the day, the precursor to self-driving cars. In Ohio, most horses on the roads are pulling Amish buggies; concentrated in the mostly rural areas where they live. wbm1058 (talk) 11:43, 4 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Indeed, the horse WAS the original "self-driving" conveyance. That said, the human part of the operation still screwed things up a lot of the time...  Montanabw <sup style="color:orange;">(talk)  21:29, 4 May 2016 (UTC)

Question
I am going to do an article Bruce Nickells who is being inducted into the Harness racing Hall of Fame this summer. He was my father's former partner. One reason I've postponed it is the scant bio material I have on Bruce. Like I only know the year he was born not the date or where. I have two good photos of Bruce. One is a portrait size photo of him aboard Fast Clip, the other is a race winner photo taken in 1972 also involving Fast Clip. (And me and my father are in it BTW) If I were to use the race winner photo (That's the easier for me to use because the wall photo would have to be taken to Kinkos for scanning.) run into any form of copyright issues? Clip is mentioned as one of Bruce's more famous horses. Please get back to me....William, is the complaint department really on the roof? 00:37, 5 May 2016 (UTC)
 * The copyright of a photograph generally resides with the photographer, so you'd have to find out who took the photos before you could arrange to use them freely. If you can't find out who took the photograph, copyright will exist for 70 years after the publication of the image. I assume Bruce Nickells is still alive from this: http://www.standardbredcanada.ca/news/7-9-15/nickells-selected-hall-induction.html so you wouldn't be able to use the photos under fair use either, because a freely licensed photograph could still be taken even though he's 87 (although the photo could be included under fair use in an article on Fast Clip because a fresh photo of Fast Clip can't be taken). --RexxS (talk) 01:23, 5 May 2016 (UTC)
 * The copyright of a photograph generally resides with the photographer, so you'd have to find out who took the photos before you could arrange to use them freely. If you can't find out who took the photograph, copyright will exist for 70 years after the publication of the image. I assume Bruce Nickells is still alive from this: http://www.standardbredcanada.ca/news/7-9-15/nickells-selected-hall-induction.html so you wouldn't be able to use the photos under fair use either, because a freely licensed photograph could still be taken even though he's 87 (although the photo could be included under fair use in an article on Fast Clip because a fresh photo of Fast Clip can't be taken). --RexxS (talk) 01:23, 5 May 2016 (UTC)


 * , I have two ideas besides taking a photo of him now. The first is if the 1972 photo was published ANYWHERE prior to 1978 and we can make a "copyright not renewed" claim.  This could maybe be a local newspaper, an industry publication, or better yet a race program or a sales catalogue (because those generally are copyright not renewed).  is really good at finding stuff in old newspapers scanned in Google.   is the genius for searching in Hathi Trust materials (I once found an old National Horse Show program there...)   If the horse is deceased, RexxS is correct, you can probably do an article on the horse, if notable, and IMHO you MAYBE could pull off a "fair use" claim on the same image on the bio. I did get fair use for a horse photo with the lead image for Bask (the guy riding the horse is still alive), though not sure how it would hold up if challenged.  Montanabw <sup style="color:orange;">(talk)  17:43, 5 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Was Fast Clip notable? He won the American National in 1972 as a two-year-old, the Matron Stakes as a 4-year-old. He went 156.3 to win the Geer Stakes(? Not sure if that's the right spelling or name but the race was in Duqoin Illinois where the Hambletonian was raced at the time) as a three year old. Prior to his racing in the Realizaton as a 4 yo, his photo was supposedly in a New York City area newspaper (Late April or Early May 1973. The NY Daily News and Newsday were the best local papers so far as horse racing went) with something about him being 'always the bridesmaid never the bride' because he had finished 2nd like 10 times as a 3 yo. He was 2nd in world record time of 156.4 in the 1972 Little Brown Jug. Unfortunately Strike Out finished ahead of him and set the world record at the time of 156.3 for a 3yo pacer on a half mile track.

Driver Joe Marsh Jr. said he was driving a little sports car, just step on the gas and Clip goes and Driver Ted Taylor I think said Clip was the fastest pacer born in 1969 for an 1/8th of a mile. Clip also bit off 2 or 3 fingers of his groom's hand just before the horse was retired. He was a small mean horse.

All that said, 1- Most of it would be thoroughly unreferenced. The races and drivers don't have articles, though they should. Trouble with harness racing history- there is so little on the internet. 2- Most of this is from my memory of stuff 40+ years ago and probably originating from my father. How reliable my father's memories were, I don't know. I was there the day of the 72 Jug and as Clip and Strike Out made the final turn for home Dad said- "We have this race won" because Clip hadn't been used and had been covered up the whole race with Strike Out in front of him. We had the 4 post position and Strike out the 3.

There are 3 mentions of Clip on the internet. His being one of Hall of Famer Bruce Nickells most famous horses, his 2nd place finish to Strike Out in the Jug(Pacing's Kentucky Derby) and his finishing 2nd to Silent Majority in the LK Shapiro as a 3 yo. If someone around has a collection of Hoof Beats magazines from 1971-1973 Clip would be in it.

I may some old photos of Bruce in a collection of family photos. I haven't looked. My photo skills were not very good. Dad and Bruce's partnership, Brubil Farms, broke up in the late 1970's.

As for the photos- The portrait photo might have been published. It was from that Geers Stakes win in August or September 1972. The other one was a winner's circle photo/race photo the winning owners of a horse could get. That photo was taken at Sportsmans Park in the summer of 1972....William, is the complaint department really on the roof? 18:30, 5 May 2016 (UTC)

BTW if you would like to see the Sportsmans photo, I could scan it and then you a email. If you want to email this user....William, is the complaint department really on the roof? 18:37, 5 May 2016 (UTC)
 * I looked on Google newspapers and found a couple of articles, but no pictures. There were several others that I didn't look at, though.  White Arabian Filly  Neigh 19:39, 5 May 2016 (UTC)


 * Wow! Quite a few, really.  Possible paydirt:  Is the second place horse in this photo Fast Clip with Nickells? (Article says they were second) Here is a really bad-quality photo that might be of Nickells in the driver's seat looking at the guy on the ground: .  Nickells is the headliner here, here, and here.  Montanabw <sup style="color:orange;">(talk)  20:12, 5 May 2016 (UTC)

Mentioned you
I've unfortunately had to mention you while defending myself from frivolous charges by Spacecowboy420 at WP:ANI --RexxS (talk) 13:38, 6 May 2016 (UTC)

It's mouse time!
Many thanks for your input at the recent PR for Walt Disney. The article is now at FAC should you wish to comment further. Thanks again – SchroCat (talk) 07:30, 7 May 2016 (UTC)

W00t!
Congratulations on getting American Pharoah on the front page!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WOWZA! - Tim1965 (talk) 00:02, 7 May 2016 (UTC)

--Gerda Arendt (talk) 06:52, 7 May 2016 (UTC)

I agree. The first thing I saw coming on Wikipedia was American Pharoah. I was so surprised to see a horse on the main page. Horsegeek (talk) 19:09, 7 May 2016 (UTC)Horsegeek
 * Yee-haw! And it's even better to see him up there today! Congrats! White Arabian Filly  Neigh 20:08, 7 May 2016 (UTC)

Nyquist
Nyquist won the Kentucky Derby! It was him after all. Horsegeek (talk) 00:58, 8 May 2016 (UTC)Horsegeek
 * Hope you had fun watching the race! Montanabw <sup style="color:orange;">(talk)  07:34, 8 May 2016 (UTC)

Invitation to join the Ten Year Society
Dear Montanbw, you are now officially part of the permanent exhibits. Fortunately, it is not a petting zoo! Thus,

I'd like to extend a cordial invitation to you to join the Ten Year Society, an informal group for editors who've been participating in the Wikipedia project for ten years or more.

Best regards,  — SMcCandlish ☺ ☏ ¢ ≽ʌⱷ҅ᴥⱷʌ≼  07:20, 8 May 2016 (UTC)


 * Why thank you! I appreciate the invite.   Montanabw <sup style="color:orange;">(talk)  07:35, 8 May 2016 (UTC)

It's almost here...
The second-to-last note of this always sounds like a neigh to me. White Arabian Filly  Neigh 20:15, 6 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Quite possible . What I've always wondered, though, is how the foal is "raised in the trees... on wobbly knees..."  I don't think horses can climb trees (though if you grammatically parse that lyric and exclude the independent clause represented by the elipses, that IS what he's saying... LOL!)   Montanabw <sup style="color:orange;">(talk)  20:42, 6 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Mint Julep.jpg Might as well drop one of these off while I'm here. —/M endaliv /2¢/Δ's/ 20:26, 6 May 2016 (UTC)

YUM! Thanks, ! Mint Juleps for all! The party is here (well, I might not be, as I will be glued to the TV, but the rest of y'all have fun now )! Oh yes, we all need hats too! Fedoras for the guys and fancy things with flowers for the ladies... or just the goofiest things you can find. Stop by and show off your hat, grab a Mint Julep -- and "behaive"! Montanabw <sup style="color:orange;">(talk) 20:39, 6 May 2016 (UTC)

Also, everyone: American Pharoah is TFA for Derby Day (which will start on the WP UTC, meaning it's up about two hours from now.  Be on the lookout for vandals, and all watchlisting will be much appreciated.   will be waiting with fingers poised over the keyboard to have a bio of the winner live within the hour (because neither one of us are rooting for Nyquist, even though he is a strong favorite).   Montanabw <sup style="color:orange;">(talk)  20:39, 6 May 2016 (UTC)

Nyquist is certainly a strong favorite. Tomorrow we will see who wins though. 📆 Horsegeek (talk) 21:06, 6 May 2016 (UTC)Horsegeek


 * and in the meantime there is a certain race for fillies coming up very soon. I'm rooting for Weep No More, bang in form and cute as a button. Oh Songbird, where art thou?  Tigerboy1966  21:42, 6 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Think there's another Triple Crown winner in there somewhere? I was looking at the records earlier, and every time a horse wins all three races, it seems like some foal gets inspired and wins the Triple Crown himself within a year or two. (And in the 70s, there were Secretariat, Seattle Slew and Affirmed.) White Arabian Filly  Neigh 21:54, 6 May 2016 (UTC)




 * I had Cathryn Sophia in my exacta for the Oaks and a show bet on Weep No More (she did look damn good in the post parade, and BTW, we had no article on Corey Lanerie, so I just started one, anyone want to dive in and expand, feel free!), so though I spotted the winner, everything else on my tickets laid an egg and I made no money at all (dang, I have to figure out not just who to pick but how to bet them!). Yes, we all missed Songbird in the Oaks,  and dear Rachel Valentina couldn't quite live up to her mama's standards, though she tried.  As for the Triple Crown, well it is true that it seems they run in batches, three in the 1940s also.  I'm not particularly fond of the favorite this year, I'm probably going to put my money on yet another gray, colt that will, most likely, break my heart (again).  This time, at least, there are (I think) four of them, mostly courtesy of Tapit.  That said, you gotta give a nod to Baffert's not-particularly well-regarded horse this year, just because someone said he "runs like an anteater"  And then there is the very, very quirky Lani --  does a Japanese-owned Tapit son out of a Sunday Silence mare have a shot when he doesn't like to work in the mornings? Basically, other than the favorite, the race is really quite wide open.  My friends in town are betting based on the names...   Montanabw <sup style="color:orange;">(talk)  01:35, 7 May 2016 (UTC)


 * Well we have articles for Nyquist, Brody's Cause, Mohaymen and Exagerrator, so sod's law predicts a 1-2-3 for Gun Runner, Mor Spirit and Outwork. As for the Japanese entry, well if they sent over one of their top colts like Leontes, Makahiki, Air Spinel or Dee Majesty then the American horses would be in big trouble. Lani is a nice horse but he's only running overseas because he isn't quite up to top class in Japan. As for Baffert's comment, I have never seen a running anteater run although I once saw a fairly lively hedgehog.  Tigerboy1966  16:00, 7 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Heh, we call it Murphy's Law over here and yes, it governs the known universe. I also strongly suspect that whoever coined the phrase must have been a horse owner too!   Montanabw <sup style="color:orange;">(talk)  17:32, 7 May 2016 (UTC)

He DOES make misspellings, but I like that Nyquist writes his own Tweets! Vesuvius Dogg (talk) 17:52, 7 May 2016 (UTC)

Nyquist sure is popular. Wow. Just think about it, a tweeting horse. Horsegeek (talk) 19:17, 7 May 2016 (UTC)Horsegeek
 * If he does win, I get bragging rights for starting his article. It's hard to overlook an undefeated horse, and such a handsome one at that. But this is a very big field, full of possibilities ... I've placed no bets. Vesuvius Dogg (talk) 20:12, 7 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Well here we go I'm going 1: Brody's Cause, 2: Nyquist, 3: Exaggerator. I don't gamble but my cat Gus has a thing for speed horses with silly names and has bet next week's food budget on Danzing Candy.  Tigerboy1966  22:11, 7 May 2016 (UTC)

Well Vesuvius Dogg, its time to brag. Horsegeek (talk) 00:59, 8 May 2016 (UTC)Horsegeek


 * Well folks, we had a lot of fun and the best part of a wikipedia party is ... no hangover! I'd say it's time for us all to go over and whip 2016 Kentucky Derby  into shape for ITN.  (I had money on Exaggerator and Mohaymen so dang!  Half the superfecta still = Cash poor!   Montanabw <sup style="color:orange;">(talk)  01:51, 8 May 2016 (UTC)
 * I hope nobody bet on the 13 horse in the Woodford Reserve! 😨 White Arabian Filly  Neigh 15:31, 8 May 2016 (UTC)

Article improvement project - with BLP issues
I've got a project and am posting here to draw my talk page stalkers that aren't necessarily the horsey people. But also pinging and, who were invaluable last year. Given the big picture, I think it's time to bring Doug O'Neill (trainer of Nyquist (horse) up to GA status the way we did with Ahmed Zayat last year, and for a similar reason—a highly colorful and controversial person is going to be getting a big media spotlight in horse racing land, and if his bio here is at GA status, it will be a lot LESS drama with vandals and people do like to do childish stuff like this. As we did with Zayat's financial woes, we need to address O'Neill's medication violations in a complete fashion, without whitewashing, but also in a fair fashion—I will not be surprised if PETA and that ilk began to target him and we need to be super-accurate with the article.  So, welcome anyone who wants to watchlist and (I hope) lend a hand.  I'm going to put up the GAN soon, but we can continue to improve the article until a reviewer comes along (or anyone here who wants to review, please feel welcome, and DO be appropriately critical!)  Montanabw <sup style="color:orange;">(talk)  23:06, 8 May 2016 (UTC)
 * I made a few minor copyedits. I may try to look at Google newspapers and see if I can find some old stuff about when he first started racing for the background material. White Arabian Filly  Neigh 14:43, 9 May 2016 (UTC)

Fresh eyes
Would appreciate a look at Lauren Kieffer, an up-and-coming eventing champion with a good shot at making the Rio team. Vesuvius Dogg (talk) 07:19, 11 May 2016 (UTC)

Thanks
For the help with Fast Clip. I have begun a draft article on Bruce Nickells. You can find it here. I'll work on the article more this week. Feel free to go at it also if you want.

I'm going to try calling Bruce at his Florida home this week too. In addition to congratulating him on his Hall of Fame selection, I will ask if he would care to share a recent photo and supply me with his birthdate and where he grew up. I know the year- 1928, and that he grew up in Illinois....William, is the complaint department really on the roof? 17:59, 8 May 2016 (UTC)

That and maybe a death date for Fast Clip, by the way, if he was a stallion, do you know where he was retired to and if he sired any/many offspring? Montanabw <sup style="color:orange;">(talk) 18:57, 8 May 2016 (UTC)


 * Fast Clip was sold by Dad and Bruce in 1975 or 1976 to some Canadian farm or breeder. After that I know next to zero details about Clip except-
 * He sired a stallion named Close Clip. Saw him race at Pompano Park around 1980.
 * According to Dad, Clip didn't sire any notable horse due to poor broodmares being bred to him.
 * Also according to Dad, that Clip was the most prolific sire in Canada. They try breeding up to 120(?) broodmares to a stallion and he got 95% or more into foal. Which leads to some jokes which I think I posted to this talk page once before. That he worked at a real Fast Clip and was certainly living up to his Dad's name- Good Time.
 * Bruce might be able to give me some details. Thanks for the help....William, is the complaint department really on the roof? 19:42, 8 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Be careful not to run afoul of original research. If you can't back up your info with third-party published stuff, you can't use it on WP (that said, if you do get a lot of good stuff, I'd suggest writing up an article for one of the harness racing magazines -- they always need copy and once it's published, it's a source for WP!  LOL!   Montanabw <sup style="color:orange;">(talk)  19:47, 8 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Somewhere in the past, I've seen an email from an article subject containing their CV forwarded to OTRS for verification, and then the content "published" on the article talk page. It's usually acceptable for a subject to provide their own uncontroversial biographical details. --RexxS (talk) 23:08, 8 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Thanks RexxS, pinging to ask you if he has questions.   Montanabw <sup style="color:orange;">(talk)  23:09, 8 May 2016 (UTC)


 * I found this photo of Fast Clip on the internet. He's the #11 horse in the photo. It is from his 1973 Matron Stakes win. There were 11 horses in that race, we drew the #11 post position or the only horse not at the gate. Wolverine was a mile track, 10 horses across. Ambro Mystic, a pacer from Canada and also in the photo as he came in 3rd, had the 1 post position and we were behind. Prior to the race that looked good because if you read the program, Mystic always went to the top. Program has last six races and no matter, 7, 8, 1, 5, post position, he was 1st at the 1/4 pole in every race. Except he didn't go to the top that night and we were buried. 10th at the 1/4, 1/2, and 3/4. 6th at the turn and like 4 or 5 wide. Clip took off. We went by a tiring race favorite, Keystone Pebble who's in the photo and finished 4th, and edged Breadwinner by a head and Ambro Mystic by a neck. The photo can't be used for the article, and I do have a IC for the Matron Stakes win already. Just thought I'd share....William, is the complaint department really on the roof? 22:59, 10 May 2016 (UTC)


 * Actually, I'd bet the magazine IS now copyright-not-renewed, a lot of those industry publications from the 70s are., isn't there a place online where one can check to see if these older publications qualify as public domain now?   Montanabw <sup style="color:orange;">(talk)  19:52, 11 May 2016 (UTC)
 * I'm not aware of one for publications; [this https://collections.stanford.edu/copyrightrenewals/bin/page?forward=home] is for books. More likely the tag most useful will be PD-no notice.  Best way of checking that is examining a physical or online copy of the publication.  Sometimes a later one will do, if you can show it was not copyrighted later.--Wehwalt (talk) 20:14, 11 May 2016 (UTC)

AfD
10 d and 8 k = delete? No explanation on the close for Brumby? I queried the closer - would like for it to be reviewed - your thoughts? I'm not experienced at this process so any direction you can provide will be greatly appreciated. I also posted my query at project WIR. <span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.3em 0.6em,#BFFF00 0.8em 0.8em 0.6em; color:#A2006D;">Atsme 📞📧 21:00, 11 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Oops, make that 11d and 9 k <span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.3em 0.6em,#BFFF00 0.8em 0.8em 0.6em; color:#A2006D;">Atsme 📞📧 01:01, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
 * I'd recreate the article directly in mainspace and see how it survives AfD2, IMHO... ;-)   Montanabw <sup style="color:orange;">(talk)  16:30, 13 May 2016 (UTC)
 * I've decided to leave it in the hands of the article creator. <span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.3em 0.6em,#BFFF00 0.8em 0.8em 0.6em; color:#A2006D;">Atsme 📞📧 04:38, 15 May 2016 (UTC)
 * I found this statement to be 100% telling "that we have absurdly lax standards for pornographic actors is not an argument to have absurdly lax standards everywhere else as well. (In actual fact, the standards even for porn actors have tightened in the last few years,they used to be even worse)." To insinuate that standards are lax for GNG is ridiculous. WP has few standards AT ALL. This is an encyclopedia that anyone can edit, one that anyone can nominate any article for deletion, one that has no oversight over admins once they become admins as they are in effect in it for life with slim possibility of removal, one that ... the list is endless. There are no standards here, instead there is a pretty small group of folks who wish to shape things to their vision. It is virtually impossible to change this system run amok, as that small group is very vocal. I think the best we can ever do against them is state our truth and politely refute theirs. In truth, it is inevitable that we will lose more than we win, but those that we do win, are thus, much sweeter victories. I thank you for your hard work on the AfD . Montanabw, as always, much respect. SusunW (talk) 18:20, 15 May 2016 (UTC)

I'm all about trying to look for change at the meta level, and simply the work of creating more women's biographies and fighting to keep them is going to be, in time, revolutionary. The small, noisy group of naysayers will, eventually, either grow up or go on to other things. To me, the important thing is to never give up! Montanabw <sup style="color:orange;">(talk) 18:54, 15 May 2016 (UTC)
 * I don't think that change will happen in our lifetime ;) but I will never give up. SusunW (talk) 19:17, 15 May 2016 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Ann T. Bowling
Hi there, I'm pleased to inform you that I've begun reviewing the article Ann T. Bowling you nominated for GA-status according to the criteria. This process may take up to 7 days. Feel free to contact me with any questions or comments you might have during this period. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of David Eppstein -- David Eppstein (talk) 22:41, 18 May 2016 (UTC)

Hey stalkers!
You asked for it, so by popular demand, Talk:Cow tipping/GA1. Montanabw <sup style="color:orange;">(talk) 20:06, 20 May 2016 (UTC)

DYK for Corey Lanerie
Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 12:01, 21 May 2016 (UTC)

Anbe Sivam PR
Hello, Montanabw. I've listed the above-linked article for PR here as I wish to take it to FA. Feel free to leave comments. Thanks. — Ssven2  Speak 2 me 15:12, 21 May 2016 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Cow tipping
Hi there, I'm pleased to inform you that I've begun reviewing the article Cow tipping you nominated for GA-status according to the criteria. This process may take up to 7 days. Feel free to contact me with any questions or comments you might have during this period. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of Atsme -- Atsme (talk) 15:00, 22 May 2016 (UTC)

CONGRATULATIONS - the article was promoted to GA. Very well done in every aspect of the review!! See my comments on the review page! I love reviewing articles like this one. <span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.3em 0.6em,#BFFF00 0.8em 0.8em 0.6em; color:#A2006D;">Atsme 📞📧 15:10, 22 May 2016 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Cow tipping
The article Cow tipping you nominated as a good article has passed ; see Talk:Cow tipping for comments about the article. Well done! If the article has not already been on the main page as an "In the news" or "Did you know" item, you can nominate it to appear in Did you know. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of Atsme -- Atsme (talk) 15:21, 22 May 2016 (UTC)

Preakness Stakes
Ten-cent superfectas, baby! (Need math geek to help me figure out the best way to win something in a field of 11) Montanabw <sup style="color:orange;">(talk)  18:15, 21 May 2016 (UTC)  OH YES! TEN CENT SUPERFECTA, BABY! (Montanabw buying the cheap beer, oh yeah! Thank you, Cherry Wine!) Old age and treachery defeats youth and skill! Montanabw <sup style="color:orange;">(talk) 23:00, 21 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Great race! I was rooting for treachery! Vesuvius Dogg (talk) 23:05, 21 May 2016 (UTC)
 * I created J. Keith Desormeaux, so there! LOL!  Montanabw <sup style="color:orange;">(talk)  23:07, 21 May 2016 (UTC)
 * I've been with out-of-town company all day - what happened? <span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.3em 0.6em,#BFFF00 0.8em 0.8em 0.6em; color:#A2006D;">Atsme 📞📧 00:40, 22 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Exaggerator won the Preakness, I created an article on his trainer about an hour before the race, plus on a hunch I put Cherry Wine in my 10-cent superfecta and so I won about 30 bucks! LOL!  Montanabw <sup style="color:orange;">(talk)  00:53, 22 May 2016 (UTC)
 * How freaking exciting!! I knew Exaggerator would win this one, and he'll also win the Belmont.  The rest of the field may be a little tough to pinpoint but I'd be willing to gamble on Exaggerator for the win, and if Cherry Wine breaks a bit sooner than he did in the Preakness, will push Exaggerator but Lani may surprise us on a dry track and pass Cherry Wine to be the one to push Exaggerator.  It will be the most exciting race of the 3.  If I were to bet on it, my Trifecta would be Exaggerator, Lani and Cherry Wine.  Lordy, and I just got back from a good run in Vegas! *LOL*  <span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.3em 0.6em,#BFFF00 0.8em 0.8em 0.6em; color:#A2006D;">Atsme 📞📧 01:38, 22 May 2016 (UTC)
 * I just did the chart for the Preakness, and equibase noted that Cherry Wine actually hit his head on the gate and ran second to last much of the race. Very impressive to finish second.  What we had here was a near-identical setup as this year's Santa Anita Derby:  muddy track and very fast early pace. Both good for Exaggerator.  There weren't very many speed horses in the Derby, most were closers, and that favored Nyquist's front-running style.  Will be interesting to see who enters the Belmont, and if Exaggerator can run on a dry track as well as on a sloppy one.   Montanabw <sup style="color:orange;">(talk)  01:51, 22 May 2016 (UTC)
 * I saw him swerve coming out of the gate but didn't see what made him do it. I think Nyquist lost because he was going too fast right out of the gate. I wish they'd had the speed clock up there, because they were flying to be on a sloppy track! White Arabian Filly  Neigh 14:08, 22 May 2016 (UTC)

Great info to have, Montanabw! The head bang may explain why Cherry Wine didn't really settle. My hands-on experiences with TB racing happened so long ago, I've forgotten most of it but watching the Triple Crown races is still an adrenaline rush! Boy does it stir memories of my short-lived jockey career when I rode for Red Barn Farms. They had me slated to go to the Derby, but my parents denied permission thinking I was too young - another coulda, woulda, shoulda. The following year, Diane Crump earned the honor of being the first female jockey. Anyway, not having seen any of the horses run in prior races except for the Derby, much less breezed in training, all I have to go on is the video of the actual race. I get too flustered watching horse racing which is why I tend to avoid it, but the call of the Triple Crown is too hard to resist. What I noticed most about Exaggerator in the Derby was that his distance running is superior to this particular field of horses. The Belmont at 12 furlongs is quite a bit longer than the 9.5 furlongs of the Preakness, so what I've seen of Nyquist, I believe he will fade on the stretch and Exaggerator will start leaving the pack with both Cherry Wine and Lani pushing him hard. Lani could make it a pretty exciting finish if his jockey rates him properly - could be he was riding overly cautious on the sloppy track. If none of the three ended up with a pull or sprain and make it to the Belmont, it should prove to be a very exciting race. Wouldn't it be fun if our project team could watch it together in person? Bring us another bucket of iced down beer, please. 🍻 <span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.3em 0.6em,#BFFF00 0.8em 0.8em 0.6em; color:#A2006D;">Atsme 📞📧 14:17, 22 May 2016 (UTC)
 * and, you've got to join WP: Horse racing if you haven't already. Awfully good folks there, though mostly Brits. I enjoy the place.  As for the 2016 Belmont Stakes, if it's still redlinked, we need  to give us a hand to get it started!   Montanabw <sup style="color:orange;">(talk)  23:28, 22 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Oh my - we are one busy project. I recently created Bubba Cascio who trains AQHA running horses.  He won the All-American Futurity twice - remember Dash For Cash?

Spotlight on women entertainers!
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DYK archive
Hello Montanabw, you archived a DYK (which was passed) here. Your edit summary reads "to prep 4 sans pic (need more hooks, used up most without pics)". I am not at all clear with the edit summary and what the archive was all about. I performed the QPQ and noticed that the DYK has not been credited. Can you please help me understand whats going on?  Arun Kumar SINGH (Talk)  07:50, 24 May 2016 (UTC)


 * Basically, congratulations! It has been "promoted" to a prep set to be ready to go on the Main Page as a DYK in a few days. My edit summary was for the DYK team, incidating tt is now waiting in Template:Did you know/Preparation area 4 for an administrator to put it into the DYK queue, (my estimate is that it will be on the Main Page May 25-26 (depending on your time zone)). "Sans pic" just meant "without the picture" because we were running out of articles to promote and so some of the ones that had photos with their nominations had to be promoted without the pictures. It will probably be credited in the qpq check after it appears on the main page.  Montanabw <sup style="color:orange;">(talk)  08:14, 24 May 2016 (UTC)


 * Hello Montanabw, thanks for the detailed reply. I am aware about the word "sans" but just was not sure about leaving the picture behind. Pardon my ignorance, but I am fairly new to DYK (this was my 5th attempt only) and usually I see a note on my TP about that DYK; hence the confusion. Cheers, Arun Kumar SINGH (Talk)  08:24, 24 May 2016 (UTC)


 * The note on your DYK will show up when it appears on the main page in a couple days; I can't do that part. I know it's a bummer to not have the picture run, but we usually have more images than we can run and have to triage a bit.   Montanabw <sup style="color:orange;">(talk)  08:38, 24 May 2016 (UTC)


 * Hello Montanabw, absolutely fine, no issues. I can see lots of pictured DYK's in the nominations and can understand that there is only so much we can do. Thanks for all your help once again. Cheers, Arun Kumar SINGH (Talk)  08:44, 24 May 2016 (UTC)

Cow tipping DYK
I think it was an oversight that I was not listed as a GA contributor at the DYK nom? - Brianhe (talk) 09:43, 24 May 2016 (UTC)


 * Oh! My bad!  Of course!  I'll add you!  So sorry!   Montanabw <sup style="color:orange;">(talk)  21:30, 24 May 2016 (UTC)

Page mover granted
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Difference
Are the Cheju pony and Jeju horse different breeds? I can't figure it out. Horsegeek (talk) 01:50, 25 May 2016 (UTC)Horsegeek


 * Cheju pony and Jeju horse might be different spellings of the same breed (like Ghengis Khan, Chingis Khan...). Can happen when a non-Roman alphabet language is put into Roman letters. Also, not all equines under 14.2 are ponies, that's a "legal" cutoff mostly for show purposes (see pony for explanation of that).  A lot of these Asian horses are pretty small and the local people view them as horses, while the 19th-century Colonial powers looked down on them as "mere ponies." On the other hand, List of horse breeds in DAD-IS lists both, though both from Korea, so perhaps  could weigh in here, as that editor knows the DAD-IS classifications and language issues better than I do.   We either should note both names at the Jeju horse article if they are the same, or maybe add something on the "Cheju" situatio to the Jeju article for now... not sure.  FWIW, we tend to view The equinest as a very weak source.  The breed encyclopedias are better.  (They too have limits, but at least they are not self-published).   Montanabw <sup style="color:orange;">(talk)  02:02, 25 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Strongly agree, the equinest should not be cited anywhere in this project, not WP:RS or anything like one. I don't know a word of Korean; however, Jeju and Cheju seem to be simply two different transliterations of the same name. Although the Cheju Pony was listed in DAD-IS when I compiled the List of horse breeds in DAD-IS, it no longer is. The Jeju Horse page uses the "Cheju" spelling in its image captions. Mason is unhelpful, but I think there's little doubt they are the same breed. Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 23:21, 25 May 2016 (UTC)


 * Just replying based on my knowledge of Korean transliteration, it wouldn't be surprising if they were the same breed. The province of Jeju, for which the breed is named, was formerly called Cheju. Transliteration of Korean is a touchy subject, with at least one reformation coming after the Korean War (which would be when the name of the province began to be transliterated as Jeju). It's at least as controversial, probably much more so, than using Pinyin to transliterate Chinese (Mao Zedong vs. Mao Tse-Tung). In Hangul, Cheju and Jeju would be written the same way to my understanding. Might be worth asking someone who can do research in Korean to see if there's an indication of more than one breed so named. —/M endaliv /2¢/Δ's/ 23:37, 25 May 2016 (UTC)
 * See generally MOS:KO by the way. South Korea adopted a new romanization system in 2000. And of course adoption outside South Korea will have lagged. But yeah, if "Jeju Horse" exists nowhere before 2000, I wouldn't be surprised. —/M endaliv /2¢/Δ's/ 23:49, 25 May 2016 (UTC)
 * I think might have studied Korean or knows someone who does, so I'm pinging her.   Montanabw <sup style="color:orange;">(talk)  01:44, 26 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Hi, Cheju and Jeju are Romanizations of the same thing, Jeju-do. :) Keilana (talk) 14:05, 26 May 2016 (UTC)

Oh, LOL. I speak a bit of Cantonese and Vietnamese. Horsegeek (talk) 02:04, 26 May 2016 (UTC)Horsegeek


 * So you get t about the transliteration issues. I think for now, I'd create a redirect from Cheju to Jeju and call it good.   Montanabw <sup style="color:orange;">(talk)  02:07, 26 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Hmmm...it all sounds French to me. 😜 <span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.3em 0.6em,#BFFF00 0.8em 0.8em 0.6em; color:#A2006D;">Atsme 📞📧 06:20, 26 May 2016 (UTC)
 * You have a problem with french ? :D --Tsaag Valren (talk) 10:13, 26 May 2016 (UTC)


 * Problem solved! (, the saying here in the USA is, "it's all Greek to me!" (and trouting ! 😜 ) Montanabw <sup style="color:orange;">(talk)  15:16, 26 May 2016 (UTC)
 * SMirC-spent.svg <span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.3em 0.6em,#BFFF00 0.8em 0.8em 0.6em; color:#A2006D;">Atsme 📞📧 16:25, 26 May 2016 (UTC)
 * PS: Thank you for the trout!! Ձուկ.jpg  Oh, and I not only have trouble remembering idioms, I can't remember acronyms, people's names, user names, my kids' names....and well, it's all Greek to me. SMirC-what.svg <span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.3em 0.6em,#BFFF00 0.8em 0.8em 0.6em; color:#A2006D;">Atsme 📞📧 16:42, 26 May 2016 (UTC)

Greek, Korean, so confusing. Horsegeek (talk) 16:46, 26 May 2016 (UTC)Horsegeek
 * I have been told that learning English is not easy, either... after all, we've borrowed from so many other languages and have so many exceptions to the rules. (Others often ask why, for example we have cattle/beef, sheep/mutton, swine, pigs/pork, and let's not even discuss goose/geese or why sheep and deer are identical in the singular and the plural!)   Montanabw <sup style="color:orange;">(talk)  17:16, 26 May 2016 (UTC)
 * We refined the British dialect. Yes, that's what we did - and it began back in the mid to late 1700s.  Then, like you said, we mixed in a little Italian (I only know the cuss words), Spanish (I only know ranch Spanich), French (everything 'cept English is French, isn't it? No, wait - it's Greek.  Never realized folks in Greece spoke Greek), German (which sounds like Dutch to me), Russian (named correctly cuz they're always in a rush), and so on.  It also explains why American English and British English don't always jive, although I do enjoy watching Mr. Bean - he makes me laugh - out loud. <span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.3em 0.6em,#BFFF00 0.8em 0.8em 0.6em; color:#A2006D;">Atsme 📞📧 23:14, 26 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Who's 'We'? I never refined my British dialect (I speak Black Country). Nevertheless English as we know it was forged in the centuries following the Norman Invasion of 1066, when the rulers spoke French and the peasants spoke Anglo-Saxon (sort of old German). That's why the names of the animals come from Germanic roots like 'sheep' (Schaf), but the name of the food comes from French roots like 'mutton' (mouton). One class saw the animals only in the field and the other class only saw it on the dinner plate. --RexxS (talk) 23:29, 26 May 2016 (UTC)
 * "We" is whoever identifies with we, or maybe oui or ons or نحن or nosotros or 我们 or noi or 우리, etc. etc. in the big melting pot called the Newnited States ofa 'Merica. The 'me' in we cultivated a business out of seeing animals in the field in order to know how good they'd look on the dinner plate.  🍴🍺 <span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.3em 0.6em,#BFFF00 0.8em 0.8em 0.6em; color:#A2006D;">Atsme 📞📧 01:49, 27 May 2016 (UTC)

Update: I figured the hanja (Chinese character writing) for Jeju horse was probably the hanja for the island's name, plus the Chinese character 馬, for horse. From that, Google got me to ko:제주마, which turns out to be the Korean WP article on the horse! I can't confirm that it's the same thing as Cheju pony from that (I can't read Korean), but based on what Google Translate says for the first paragraph of the section "개요", I have a pretty strong suspicion. The Korean article that matches up to pony is ko:조랑말, and the string "조랑말" appears in the Korean article on the Jeju horse. Now here's where help is needed. Apparently wikidata:Q12616452 is the Wikidata item for the Korean page. It needs to be merged with wikidata:Q2962169, which is the one that has all the other interwikis. I have no clue how to do this. —/M endaliv /2¢/Δ's/ 18:01, 26 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Wikidata boggles my brain, now calling {{u}Pigsonthewing}}: Can you do the wikidata fix described by Mendaliv?
 * I think you got a wrong ping! Haha, but I did see this. The wikidata is now merged. — Andy W. ( talk  · ctb) 18:14, 26 May 2016 (UTC)
 * I love it when a plan comes together. I think you need to shortcut WP:ENB here as the as it seems to be the equine noticeboard. Wikidata looks like fun, I just wish there was a guided walkthrough on things like creating items. —/M endaliv /2¢/Δ's/ 20:25, 26 May 2016 (UTC)


 * LOL!.  Great reference! It's not always the equine noticeboard, sometimes it's just the fun place to hang out, other times, I host the Latest Drahmahz.  Usually something happening.   Montanabw <sup style="color:orange;">(talk)  22:28, 26 May 2016 (UTC)
 * The only thing missing is the iced-down beer!! <span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.3em 0.6em,#BFFF00 0.8em 0.8em 0.6em; color:#A2006D;">Atsme 📞📧 23:16, 26 May 2016 (UTC)

Okay, ice beer anyone? LOL Horsegeek (talk) 00:45, 27 May 2016 (UTC)Horsegeek

Derby
Just wanted to say thanks for the review, I believe you made the article a lot better! Disc Wheel ( T  +  C )  11:22, 28 May 2016 (UTC)

Sonia Gandhi
Can you take a neutral look at Sonia Gandhi?<span style="text-shadow: 4px 4px 15px #FF9900, -4px -4px 15px #FF0099;"><b style="color:#0000FF;">VictoriaGrayson</b><b style="font-family:Helvetica Neue;color:#707">Talk</b> 19:57, 28 May 2016 (UTC)

Sip 'n Dip Lounge
I love this article. All right Piano Pat! North America1000 10:32, 29 May 2016 (UTC)


 * She claims that she doesn't "rock," but actually, she does. (And can perform a wicked Johnny Cash rendition!).  Montanabw <sup style="color:orange;">(talk)  18:38, 29 May 2016 (UTC)
 * I've never heard her, but I'd bet that Piano Pat rocks even if she doesn't (supposedly) play rock... North America1000 23:45, 29 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Indeed. If we created her own article, it most likely would be promptly AfD'd.  But the link to the CBS Sunday Morning story gives you a pretty full-on experience!   Montanabw <sup style="color:orange;">(talk)  01:28, 30 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Do it! Then we can start an RfC to exempt it from deletion forever! Aah, maybe just leave content about Piano Pat in the article. North America1000 01:43, 30 May 2016 (UTC)
 * If you find the funky and quirky out-of-the-way places fun, I'm working on the Dude Rancher Lodge in Billings for my next project. Stay tuned!   Montanabw <sup style="color:orange;">(talk)  02:21, 30 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Nice one! North America1000 02:38, 30 May 2016 (UTC)
 * And allegedly haunted. (So is The Murray Hotel in Livingston) Gotta love the offbeat places.   Montanabw <sup style="color:orange;">(talk)  03:11, 30 May 2016 (UTC)

And we're live: Dude Rancher Lodge. Anyone need a qpq?
 * I did! White Arabian Filly  Neigh 14:38, 30 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Good work on the articles M! I always get a kick out of seeing this hotel when I am in Fraser, Colorado. The place is probably not article worthy but I thought you'ld enjoy seeing it - if you haven't already that is :-) Cheers. MarnetteD&#124;Talk 19:45, 30 May 2016 (UTC)


 * You never know. I found these third-party sites (other than reviews):   and the Simpsons may have borrowed the concept!  LOL!   Montanabw <sup style="color:orange;">(talk)  06:20, 31 May 2016 (UTC)

DYK for Dude Rancher Lodge
— Maile (talk) 12:01, 1 June 2016 (UTC)

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Barnstar
Best. Barnstar. Ever! Thank you,. Montanabw <sup style="color:orange;">(talk) 03:15, 2 June 2016 (UTC)
 * You're welcome, you earned it. - Brianhe (talk) 03:23, 2 June 2016 (UTC)

DYK for Cow tipping
Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 00:08, 3 June 2016 (UTC)
 * Moo! North America1000 06:01, 3 June 2016 (UTC)

Sockpuppet investigation
Hello Montanabw. I just want to let you know that Sockpuppet investigations/Agarc192 was not filed correctly. If a case isn't filed following the instructions at WP:SPI (or with the sock reporting function of Twinkle) the bot that maintains the list of open cases will not see it, so it will never be noticed by SPI clerks. Thankfully, we have another bot that tries to find cases like this. No worries, though - I went ahead and formatted it for you. ​—DoRD (talk)​ 12:20, 3 June 2016 (UTC)

Thanks. I tried using the menu tab with the new set of prefs, it clearly needs work as it didn't bring up the template, just created the page. Hm... Montanabw <sup style="color:orange;">(talk) 17:56, 3 June 2016 (UTC)

Arbitration/Requests/Case/Gamaliel and others closed
An arbitration case regarding Gamaliel and others has now closed and the final decision is viewable at the link above. The following remedies have been enacted: For the Arbitration Committee, Kevin ( aka L235 ·&#32; t ·&#32; c) via MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 03:38, 4 June 2016 (UTC)
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TWHNC
Can you or some of your talk page stalkers please keep an eye on the Tennessee Walking Horse National Celebration article? There's this new editor who is rearranging sentences and stuff. They're trying to help, but not doing much; they changed the lead so the reason for founding the show is after the stuff about when they founded it. I took it to their talk but no response. I've already reverted three times and don't want to edit war, but don't want to keep their un-chronological and run-on sentences in the article. I am hoping to be able to get the article to GA by the time the show is held this year. I'm not happy with their messing with the lead, especially. They make it sound like the organizers held the first show before they got the idea. White Arabian Filly Neigh 15:12, 31 May 2016 (UTC)


 * On it. ("Bad cop hat" on... This is why people accuse me of biting newbies... sigh) Your version is current, I gave the other user a warning.   Montanabw <sup style="color:orange;">(talk)  22:36, 31 May 2016 (UTC)
 * OK, now I get the creepy feeling that it may be a sockpuppet case. Different new user, same kind of edits and on same pages as the first.  White Arabian Filly  Neigh 20:17, 2 June 2016 (UTC)


 * I'll police the page, if you want to file an SPI, go to WP:SPI and ping me when you do, I'll add my assessment.  Montanabw <sup style="color:orange;">(talk)  22:36, 2 June 2016 (UTC) Follow up: I went ahead and did a SPI, may not be that big of a deal, but weird.  Very weird.   Montanabw <sup style="color:orange;">(talk)  01:17, 3 June 2016 (UTC)
 * Thanks for that, I've never filed an SPI (although I did once catch a sock IP that was doing weird things with the infoboxes on dog articles). I added a comment on the casepage about their weird style of English. White Arabian Filly  Neigh 20:13, 3 June 2016 (UTC)
 * And they have just made another weird edit. This one is more of a problem than the previous stuff because it changes the meaning of the sentences with bad results. Really, the class is also known as the canter?  White Arabian Filly  Neigh 20:23, 6 June 2016 (UTC)

recent edit
I just noticed your recent edit at an editor's talk page. Can I suggest that calling a group of editors "trolls" may attract negative attention which you did not intend. Perhaps you should edit that comment, and then come back and delete this post. Trying to be helpful. DrChrissy (talk) 20:48, 6 June 2016 (UTC)


 * The "young earth creationism" promoters can be trolls. But you have a point, I don't want those idiots to pick me up on the radar. ;-)   Montanabw <sup style="color:orange;">(talk)  20:52, 6 June 2016 (UTC)

10
Your proposal is a "10" alright. I had walked away from the whole thing in deep disgust last night. I'm beyond pleasantly surprised today to find intelligent, rational people are still willing to put time into this project. I can't thank you enough.

Getting the current science properly represented has been a Herculean task for the past 4 years; I am so happy you've come along and offered your expertise.

I added a proposal after many had already weighed in, and thought it might be wise to alert those folks to new additions and arguments. Still today, there haven't been many editors yet to ivote, so I think the idea of alerting those who have is a good one. People will appreciate it, I would imagine.

I saw a couple places I might suggest a slight change to wording, if you are open to that?  petrarchan47  คุ  ก   18:37, 8 June 2016 (UTC)


 * Can you post a diff to your proposal? That GMO RFC is a tl;dr and I sometimes have trouble finding new stuff in there.  Montanabw <sup style="color:orange;">(talk)  19:27, 8 June 2016 (UTC)


 * I mentioned the problems to Wordsmith here. The problem with an addition of OR to the stated goal of the RfC (detailed on Wordsmith's page) extends to your proposal. I see that you took cues perhaps from other proposals, however most of them are not in alignment with the stated goal. Admins may decide to change the RfC goal to match the majority of the already-submitted proposals, but I highly doubt it and hope that won't be the case. If not, I would suggest your proposal should address only the issues in the statement we are trying to replace. Make sense?   petrarchan47  คุ  ก   21:42, 10 June 2016 (UTC)

Sister article
As we have had a quick chat about before, the "Evolution of the horse" now has a sister article - the Evolution of the wolf. Regards, William Harris  •   talk •   11:36, 11 June 2016 (UTC)

DYK for J. Keith Desormeaux
Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 12:02, 11 June 2016 (UTC)

Belmont Day
Hello, again Happy Belmont Day and best wishes to all!

With all the stakes on the undercard, I thought I'd focus on updating the respective wiki articles for these and leave the Big Race to all y'all. I'll also update Kent D's page, and will look to update the page of any relevant sire. Anything else?Jlvsclrk (talk) 16:35, 11 June 2016 (UTC)


 * Also, watch for vandals. I had to put semi-protection on the Desormeaux articles due to odd vandalism... someone thought it was funny to change all the numbers around... 19:13, 11 June 2016 (UTC)

Labor history of Butte
I notice that you reverted my edit to Butte, Montana, and, of course, you were perfectly right to do so. What I had meant to do, before I was called away by my wife in mid-edit, was to link to an article I just started: Butte, Montana labor riots of 1914. Because of your interest in the history of Butte, I would invite you to review the article and make appropriate edits. Thanks. Plazak (talk) 10:59, 12 June 2016 (UTC)

Domestication of animals
Hello Montanabw, I trust you are across this one: http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2016/05/frozen-scythian-stallions-unravel-mysteries-horse-domestication Regards, William Harris  •   talk •   21:35, 3 June 2016 (UTC)


 * Curious to see the underlying study if anyone can find it. Many sources say that the Y-DNA of modern horses traces to either one or a very few stallions.  Could be that there was more diversity back then but did not continue through to today -- be very curious to know further details, such as whether the animals were bred in captivity or captured, evidence of individual domestication (riding leaves some skeletal evidence) and so on.  Very interesting and worth staying tuned.  Ping me if you can find the study or the paper!   Montanabw <sup style="color:orange;">(talk)  23:55, 3 June 2016 (UTC)
 * Sadly, there is no paper, it was a presentation at a seminar (that usually means "pre-paper"!) https://latestnewsresource.com/en/news/breaking-news-zamorozhennye-skifskie-zherebtsy-raskryli-tajny-odomashnivanija-loshadi Regards,  William Harris  •   talk •   11:29, 12 June 2016 (UTC)

Merge proposal Dosage and Thoroughbred Breeding Theories
A while back you proposed a merger of Dosage Index and Thoroughbred Breeding Theories. I worked on the latter a bit and added a section on Dosage with a link to the Dosage Index article. Similarly I added a quick section about Inbreeding versus Outcrosses, since I thought there was something specific to be said about inbreeding for thoroughbreds. (And more to follow if I can just track down the article I was reading last week.) LMK what you think. Jlvsclrk (talk) 07:21, 18 June 2016 (UTC)

, I'll look and comment on the article talk pages as needed. You might also want to think about if we need to add (sourced) entries to Glossary of equestrian terms and/or Glossary of North American horse racing. Montanabw <sup style="color:orange;">(talk) 21:55, 18 June 2016 (UTC)

Citing RS
I'd rather sit in a dentist's chair and suffer through a root canal. The most work intensive WP articles I've ever worked on are clearly the Middle Eastern & South Asian articles. I'm up for a breath of air after attempting to fix citations on Faisalabad. Didn't want you to think I was ignoring Project Equine. <span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.3em 0.6em,#BFFF00 0.8em 0.8em 0.6em; color:#A2006D;">Atsme 📞📧 19:45, 18 June 2016 (UTC)


 * My sympathies! To do those "big" articles right is a LOT of work!   Montanabw <sup style="color:orange;">(talk)  21:55, 18 June 2016 (UTC)

Two things
1- What states, if any, besides California has the Breeders' Cup been raced in? 2- Are screen captures of videos allowed for photo files in biographies? I just did an article on Sandra Smith who is probably best remembered for the Star Trek episode Turnabout Intruder. There is what looks to be a screen capture in the Turnabout Intruder episode but I'd prefer a better one of Smith from that episode. In light of her ST work, I was surprised she didn't have a WP article. She did over two dozen guest appearances on television....William, is the complaint department really on the roof? 12:50, 18 June 2016 (UTC)

, Screen captures can be used in the same manner as photos, depending on their copyright status (see California Chrome, where we have a screen capture of the Belmont start), It's all about licensing. For your other questions, see Breeders' Cup, which, if accurate says, it's been in Kentucky, California, New Jersey (Monmouth Park), Canada (Woodbine, Toronto, Ontario), New York, Florida, Illinois (Arlington), and - believe it or not - Texas (Lone Star Park). Montanabw <sup style="color:orange;">(talk) 21:55, 18 June 2016 (UTC)


 * Turnabout Intruder, the Star Trek episode Smith appeared in, has a screenshot. It wouldn't really be good for Smith's article, though she is in it. You mean if I took a screenshot of Smith from the episode, I could post it? Thanks for the horse race help....William, is the complaint department really on the roof? 23:46, 18 June 2016 (UTC)


 * Probably not, as she is a still-living person, so "fair use" doesn't apply. You need an image that is under a free license.  If she was deceased, you could do it with a fair use rationale, but she isn't.   Montanabw <sup style="color:orange;">(talk)  00:00, 19 June 2016 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Ann T. Bowling
The article Ann T. Bowling you nominated as a good article has passed ; see Talk:Ann T. Bowling for comments about the article. Well done! If the article has not already been on the main page as an "In the news" or "Did you know" item, you can nominate it to appear in Did you know. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of David Eppstein -- David Eppstein (talk) 22:01, 18 June 2016 (UTC)

HOORAY (doing cartwheels!) Hey, ! Thanks for the kickstart! Montanabw <sup style="color:orange;">(talk) 22:05, 18 June 2016 (UTC)
 * You're welcome! Congratulations!! ^_^ Keilana (talk) 03:48, 19 June 2016 (UTC)

Deletion discussion about Religious communism
As you participated in a related discussion at Articles for deletion/Christian communism, you are invited to join the discussion at Articles for deletion/Religious communism. Graham (talk) 19:23, 19 June 2016 (UTC)

Wind Horse
The revert now links to a dab page. Buddhist mythology may be an option, but "Windhorse was predominantly a feature of the folk culture, ... a rather than a Buddhist religious ideal," Mannanan51 (talk) 05:32, 21 June 2016 (UTC)


 * Possibly cannot be helped. May need to expand the dab into a short article. Linking to a dab deliberately can, in some cases, be accepatable.    Montanabw <sup style="color:orange;">(talk)  05:38, 21 June 2016 (UTC)

Help requested: Good Article Review
Hello, I was just wondering if you would be interested in reviewing another of mine and Worm That Turned articles? Tessie Reynolds is another powerful woman who took a little step forward in the history of women's rights - though just wearing "manly" clothing on a bike! Don't worry if you can't - I know there are 101 other things for Wikipedians to do! ツStacey (talk) 09:04, 22 June 2016 (UTC)

Andy Miller (harness racing)
I just did an article on this driver and his trainer wife Julie. Andy has the nickname, The Orange Crush. I tried to put it in his horsemen's box, along with a reference for the nickname, but it isn't appearing. Could you please fix it for me? Thanks....William, is the complaint department really on the roof? 12:17, 22 June 2016 (UTC)

The article is fixed now. Feel free to tweak the articles to make them better....William, is the complaint department really on the roof? 13:12, 22 June 2016 (UTC)

Hequ Horse
Has the Hequ Horse article been created yet? I looked around, and even searched its nickname, but nothing showed up. So I decided to create it. User:Horsegeek/Hequ Horse I'm not so sure if it's created, but I just wanted to double check... Thanks. Horsegeek (talk) 20:13, 20 June 2016 (UTC)Horsegeek
 * Looks like not. I think the Wikidata item is Q10522273, by the way. —/M endaliv /2¢/Δ's/ 21:07, 20 June 2016 (UTC)


 * What kind of source material do you have on it... this isn't a breed with an alternative name, is it? (Might be...)  Looking at the article on French wikipedia, I'm wondering if we are talking about the Tibetan pony ... we also have the Heihe horse ... I'd start with List of horse breeds in DAD-IS, which lists it, and there is an entry (in fractured English) here.    Montanabw <sup style="color:orange;">(talk)  04:08, 21 June 2016 (UTC)

It seems more related to the Heihe horse. On the sources I have, none say anything like Heihe. The nicknames are Hequl, Nanfan, and Khetsyui horse. I'm sure it's not the tibetan pony. But it doesn't look like the heihe article mentions anything about having three types of the breed. That's what the sources on Hequ say. But this is it I think: https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hequ_(cheval) Horsegeek (talk) 16:01, 21 June 2016 (UTC)Horsegeek
 * Hello. I've written the french article about Hequ horse, and it passed de GA review, so, if you wish translate.... you're very welcome :) --Tsaag Valren (talk) 20:11, 23 June 2016 (UTC)

Thank you for your permission Horsegeek (talk) 00:06, 24 June 2016 (UTC)Horsegeek

Barnstar
When will I ever get a barnstar? I gave others them. Kimono111 (talk) 20:17, 22 June 2016 (UTC)


 * You have made exactly three edits to article space. The answer should be obvious....William, is the complaint department really on the roof? 21:19, 22 June 2016 (UTC)


 * Wikipedia is not a social networking site. Please read WP:NOTHERE.   Montanabw <sup style="color:orange;">(talk)  18:20, 24 June 2016 (UTC)

List foo
Hey MB – check this: List of bars. Hint: scroll down to the tiki bars section. Cheers, North America1000 15:09, 24 June 2016 (UTC)


 * LOL!  Montanabw <sup style="color:orange;">(talk)  18:21, 24 June 2016 (UTC)

Welcome to the Hall of Fame!
--Rosiestep (talk) 09:01, 23 June 2016 (UTC) via MassMessage (To subscribe, Women in Red/Invite list. Unsubscribe, Women in Red/Opt-out list)


 * Hey WP Equine members, (especially - on the above list is the Cowgirl Hall of Fame, which has gobs of redlinks!   Montanabw <sup style="color:orange;">(talk)  18:25, 24 June 2016 (UTC)

What next
Hi again! As a newbie here, I'm still trying to figure things out and really appreciate the help. I hope you don't mind a few questions:
 * if I've edited an article and want a second look, who should I ask. for example, I recently changed the Byerley Turk article because it was on the cleanup listing, but I'd like a second look because it is a High importance article
 * when a big race day rolls around, like next week with the Belmont, is there a list or something to show who's going to handle what? I'm glad to pitch in, but I'm not sure where, so for now I'm just tidying up older articles as I see issues
 * do I like bullet lists too much?

Thanks so much for your help! Jlvsclrk (talk) 02:10, 5 June 2016 (UTC)


 * Hi, and great questions. First off, tidying up old articles is VERY MUCH needed! When you want to get other eyes, you can either post a message at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Horse racing or Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Equine and ask for help, or post on the article's talk page (to draw anyone else who has it watchlisted) or do what you did here -- ask a helpful wikipedian!  You'll get to know folks here and figure out who the go-to people are for different things.   For the upcoming 2016 Belmont Stakes, the article is slowly being worked on in dribs and drabs, and updates as the field develops are always good. Source as you go, that is way better than sourcing after the fact. Usually someone does do a "drive-by" and make it all come together with the charts and payouts, but sometimes the pre-race narrative and post-race analysis gets short shrift (look at examples from earlier years as examples, some really... suck)  take a look at what was already done at 2016 Kentucky Derby and 2016 Preakness Stakes to see what the final, post-race product looks like. Also, as I have something like 200+ people watchlisting my talk page, posting here with an edit summary or section heading that indicates "help needed" may draw more folks than just me.   Montanabw <sup style="color:orange;">(talk)  03:08, 5 June 2016 (UTC)


 * Hi again! I'd noticed a while back that there was no wiki entry for the Grade 1 Belmont Oaks Invitational Stakes, and put it on my to-do list. Just found out that it used to be the Garden City Stakes/Handicap, so a move is needed, but I'm afraid to do it because there are redirects out there already and I'm not sure how that works. Can you clarify?? I'm planning to update the page tomorrow but no tearing rush. Reference" http://www.equibase.com/profiles/Results.cfm?type=Stakes&stkid=1983 Thanks again! Jlvsclrk (talk) 06:27, 25 June 2016 (UTC)

Prep5
Can you remove from Prep5 "... that while Inger Hanmann created enamels for the Copenhagen Airport, her daughter Charlotte made processed photographs of urban environment?". It is unclear what it means but more importantly, the Charlotte Hanmann fact is not supported by a citation and you will get the sort of criticism I am currently being subjected to. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 05:40, 26 June 2016 (UTC)


 * You're right. Will do.  Montanabw <sup style="color:orange;">(talk)  05:42, 26 June 2016 (UTC)


 * I fixed the problem, it actually was sourced, but with one those "multiple footnotes at the very end" things that I dislike. I made a tweak.  They can criticize me all they want, I'm used to it! LOL!   Montanabw <sup style="color:orange;">(talk)  05:54, 26 June 2016 (UTC)


 * I looked and asked the authors for details of translation. Perhaps we should word something less precise, if they can't come up with it. I find "urban environment" only in mirror sites. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 06:28, 26 June 2016 (UTC)


 * I ran one of the sources from the mom's article through google translate and it popped up, added that source to the Charlotte Hanmann article, only to note that it was the source used, just at the end of the next sentence (I really hate it when people do that multiple source at end of multiple sentence thing!). And with "urban" content. I think it's OK now.  Montanabw <sup style="color:orange;">(talk)  06:32, 26 June 2016 (UTC)

U.S. presidential primaries hooks being held until after June 15
Hi, I'm wondering why you went ahead and closed all the outstanding nominations for U.S. presidential primaries hooks that were being held until "after June 15" per the DYK rule of not running such hooks within 30 days of a political election? Personally, I also questioned the wisdom of nominating a news event in March and having it run in June, but them's the rules. I reverted your closure of Template:Did you know nominations/Romney's March 3 Speech, but am holding off on Template:Did you know nominations/Bernie Sanders' Dank Meme Stash and others until I hear from you. User:PFHLai had added re-review icons to these nominations to solicit updated reviews, but there have been few takers. I guess this is my next project :). Thanks, Yoninah (talk) 12:59, 26 June 2016 (UTC)


 * If them's the rules, go ahead and revert both. We were after June 15 and nothing much was happening.  I don't have particularly strong feelings,  other than they are both no longer timely in the least (and the Dank Meme Stash article has references to April 2016 in the lead, so it's out of date too.  Frankly, I don't see either of them passing any time soon, but if you want to "bless"  them, go for it.   Montanabw <sup style="color:orange;">(talk)  19:08, 26 June 2016 (UTC)
 * Thanks. Yoninah (talk) 19:44, 26 June 2016 (UTC)

Question
How does one find an expert Wikipedian in a given field, such as a botanist in Texas? Is there a way? <span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.3em 0.6em,#BFFF00 0.8em 0.8em 0.6em; color:#A2006D;">Atsme 📞📧 19:56, 26 June 2016 (UTC)


 * Officially, there is expert that can be placed on the page, which can't hurt, but seldom generates action (the one on laminitis languished for about 4-5 years). Unofficially, the better approach is to go to a wikiproject (biology or Texas, for example) and post at the project talk, or go to articles similar to the one where you have a question and see who is doing the "expert" edits and then pop by their talk page.
 * 4-5 years!! Yikes.  I'll try the "better approach".  Thanks for the tip!!  <span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.3em 0.6em,#BFFF00 0.8em 0.8em 0.6em; color:#A2006D;">Atsme 📞📧 21:29, 26 June 2016 (UTC)

Map pins
I don't remember offhand, but it has something to do with a line in the infobox coding that can be added or subtracted as you wish. I have to disappear for a bit, but I'll look when I get back and see if I can find it. -- Ser Amantio di Nicolao Che dicono a Signa?Lo dicono a Signa. 03:26, 27 June 2016 (UTC)

GAR input sought
Hi, I followed here from WikiProject Quality Article Improvement and I am reaching out for an opinion; as the member of the project I hope could provide input on the topics of sourcing, neutrality, extraordinary claims, and level of detail in the articles, as well as general Wikipedia policies.

It has been suggested to me by editor Coretheapple in the Discussion area of a current GA reassessment that the review be brought to the attention of a wider audience. The issues above are included in the review, so I hope there's enough of a cross-functional applicability. The article in question is Hyacinth Graf Strachwitz; no specialist knowledge is required to be able to contributed to the GAR.

I would welcome feedback or a review of the article to see if it still meets Good article criteria and whether it should be retained or delisted as a Good article. I would also welcome any feedback you'd be willing to share. Thank you and happy editing. K.e.coffman (talk) 07:55, 27 June 2016 (UTC)


 * Well, the article does over-rely on Roll 2011, which is in German and a hardcopy source that I cannot access, so even if it is reliable, it's over-used. That said, I am no expert on military history, nor do I speak or read German with any fluency at all (I must rely on machine translation).  Looks like there are people on both sides of the issues.  You may want to ask  to look at the GAR, as she has some expertise on Third Reich topics, and I tend to avoid that area.   Montanabw <sup style="color:orange;">(talk)  00:52, 28 June 2016 (UTC)

review times
GAs seem to take from 1 to 3 hours in far many cases - I fear one cause is collecting things. (sigh) Collect (talk) 14:29, 25 June 2016 (UTC)
 * My last one took three weeks. Rightfully so.  Wikicup is part of the situation, points for both reviews and passing.  That part is good, but maybe GA should move to a qpq system like DYK.  Thoughts?   Montanabw <sup style="color:orange;">(talk)  23:07, 25 June 2016 (UTC)
 * I did one DYK - seemed to be heaven for nitpicking <g> (Charles S. Strong), and I did 2 GAs - one was "GA by negotiation" editing with Slim Virgin at Christian Science, the other was (I think) the only "GA by reduction on Wikipedia" on Joseph Widney (which Eric guided me on).  I think the process on DYK was tougher, as I am not a horrid writer (IMHO). I think GA should have one MOS review by a person who is truly dedicated to those minutia, a different person to vet the claims, and a third to simply aim for readability ... having one reviewer adequately do all three tasks provides too strong an incentive for shortcuts, I fear. Should they divide the tasks in such a way? Collect (talk) 00:20, 26 June 2016 (UTC)
 * They sort of do -- but that is called FAC! Basically, DYK has gotten to to the point that their standard is close to GA itself.   Montanabw <sup style="color:orange;">(talk)  00:53, 26 June 2016 (UTC)
 * So I noticed <g> Collect (talk) 01:38, 26 June 2016 (UTC)
 * The reason for rapid GA reviews is probably the GA Cup which finishes at the end of the month. As for filling prep areas, I suggest you be very careful otherwise you just provide ammunition for the extreme nitpickers and anti-DYK folk. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 05:56, 26 June 2016 (UTC)
 * That makes sense. As for the nitpickers, ah heck, I haven't had enough drama in the last 48 hours, might as well go stir up some.  Montanabw <sup style="color:orange;">(talk)  05:59, 26 June 2016 (UTC)
 * That's easy enough, Montanabw - let's prep another GAC together. *lol* <span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.3em 0.6em,#BFFF00 0.8em 0.8em 0.6em; color:#A2006D;">Atsme 📞📧 20:22, 26 June 2016 (UTC)

For fun - look at my recent posts. I can not understand why in (FITB) an editor would regard me improving an article by using best sources and obeying the MOS is somehow such an affront that he must "shame" me on his own UT page, and chase down my own edits in order to stubify articles which have had unsourceable claims removed. Happy 4th! BTW, is Angela Merkel editing lately? <g> Collect (talk) 22:47, 27 June 2016 (UTC) OK, so let me be sure I am correct on this. You and appear to be having significant disputes over the biography of "a much-feared and notoriously bitchy celebrity biographer whose works fell squarely in the “unauthorised” category." Am I correct? And, among other places, the dispute has spilled over to the talk page of ? Oh d-d-d-d-dear! Even I lack the courage to dive into the middle of that one! Montanabw <sup style="color:orange;">(talk) 01:04, 28 June 2016 (UTC)
 * <g> I did not seek any dispute - I just find it amusing(?) that I am accused of having added POV language to an article, which is not only not POV, it was there before I even arrived.   I believe the term is "Kafka strikes again".  Unless I used tachyons.   I thought you might find the contretemps which is entirely from the other editor "interesting" (and yes - I consider causing major edits to any article to make it substantially improved to be a worthy endeavor). Collect (talk) 01:10, 28 June 2016 (UTC)
 * I want you and Blofeld to both trot over here, light a nice campfire, join hands and sing Kumbayah — and then roast some trout. he knows better, and as far as I can tell, a content dispute became too personalized. Which is the way of wiki these last few months, and I hope all that settles down. I'm also too lazy-ass to research it thoroughly and I think both of you are good editors, so that's why I am weaseling, ducking and running!   Montanabw <sup style="color:orange;">(talk)  01:20, 28 June 2016 (UTC)

Sabino TB?
Take a look at this little fellow. . V. late foal but nicely-bred. I would name him Cubone.  Tigerboy1966  11:27, 11 June 2016 (UTC)
 * He's a cute little thing; I once knew a horse named Shotgun who was marked similarly to him, although he wasn't a Thoroughbred. It's odd how you can breed two solid animals and get patterned offspring. White Arabian Filly  Neigh 18:06, 11 June 2016 (UTC)


 * We'd definitely say "Sabino horse" here in the USA, though folks who raise Icelandic horses, where this pattern shows up a fair bit, say it's splashed white -- but whateer genetic mechanism that exists in the Icelandics doesn't appear to be the same gene that we see in Paints.  Montanabw <sup style="color:orange;">(talk)  19:12, 11 June 2016 (UTC)
 * Cropout. First I've seen in a TB. They're talking about naming the foal after Bob Baffert.   If he can't dazzle them with brilliance, he could always "Baffert them with BS".  Anyway, I'm sitting here thanking my lucky stars I didn't do a Trifecta today. SMirC-worry.svg Runners came out of the woodwork. <span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.3em 0.6em,#BFFF00 0.8em 0.8em 0.6em; color:#A2006D;">Atsme 📞📧 01:43, 12 June 2016 (UTC)


 * For me, I got 25% of my ten-cent superfecta, LOL!  Montanabw <sup style="color:orange;">(talk)  05:31, 12 June 2016 (UTC)


 * The foal's leg and belly markings are similar to Top Notch Tonto, a popular Listed/ G3 performer in England.. And Ive checked the pedigrees without finding a link. Let's hope we see some more like this one, it would make the sport even more fun.  Tigerboy1966  12:09, 12 June 2016 (UTC)
 * Maybe someday we'll see pintos winning the big races, like Piebald from National Velvet. Actually, one of the grays in the Belmont yesterday (not Lani) had an odd white spot on his right hind leg, far above the hock. I wonder if he was born with it? It was a lot bigger than a dapple would be, and he didn't have others. White Arabian Filly  Neigh 15:29, 12 June 2016 (UTC)
 * Uh oh. If it spreads to the point it becomes commonplace, we may need to rewrite the breed characteristics section for "Thoroughbred". Best to wait and see if any of the "whities" win notable races. <span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.3em 0.6em,#BFFF00 0.8em 0.8em 0.6em; color:#A2006D;">Atsme 📞📧 21:53, 12 June 2016 (UTC)
 * See dominant white: There are multiple lines now in the TB world with white and spotting patterns. The most interesting is the Puchilingui  bloodline [see here http://www.oakwoodfarmtb.com/Puchilingui.jpg ] and more here-- we used to call that "sabino" but the studies of the W allele suggest it is possibly responsible; what's even weirder is that some are probably embryonic lethals, but others may be completely harmless.   Montanabw <sup style="color:orange;">(talk)  06:31, 15 June 2016 (UTC)
 * I'd call him Dipped in Paint from his breeder's comment. Interesting that he says Bodemeister throws a lot of white. (I added a brief note on Bodemeister's page for the colt.) Jlvsclrk (talk) 21:49, 22 June 2016 (UTC)
 * Officially "Southern Phantom" after a naming contest.  Tigerboy1966  20:05, 28 June 2016 (UTC)

Dressage: Xenophon
On June 27, I edited the Wiki page "Dressage", adding a reference to Xenophon; specifically, a link to his book The Art of Horsemanship. You reverted my edit, commenting: "Reverted good faith edits by VexorAbVikipædia (talk): Xenophon is not a source for being the source." I don't understand this. How can Xenophon's own writings not be a source for Xenophon? I am completely, utterly perplexed.VexorAbVikipædia (talk) 22:04, 28 June 2016 (UTC)


 * Read WP:PRIMARY Xenophon cannot be a source for a statement such as "Classical horsemanship dates back to Xenophon." He didn't know he was going to be the father of classical horsemanship at the time he wrote.  You need a different source that verifies the importance of Xenophon.  Also, you don't site a multi-page section of a book for a single, simple proposition.  If, for example, the editor of that book has a statement in the preface that Xenophon was the father of classical horsemanship, that might work -- attributing the statement to the person who wrote it and the precise page number in the specific work.   Hope that helps.   Montanabw <sup style="color:orange;">(talk)  03:26, 29 June 2016 (UTC)

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Bannack, Montana redux
Sorry for the delay, but I took a look - it has to do with the way the coordinates are listed. If you take a look at the article now, the maps are showing because I changed the way the coordinates are entered in the infobox. That look about right to you? -- Ser Amantio di Nicolao Che dicono a Signa?Lo dicono a Signa. 20:07, 29 June 2016 (UTC)

Regarding your editorial critique of Deer Lodge Montana: History
You have twice referred to that as 'very poorly written'. Could you elucidate. If my writing style is indeed that lame, I will simply delete it which will return the article to its prior state. RegardsJwilsonjwilson (talk) 19:27, 30 June 2016 (UTC)


 * It's salvagable if you would add a few inline citations. But as it was, it was horribly overlinked, unsourced, timeline list instead of a narrative, written with poor sentence structure and odd phrasing ("Butte City"???). I did some cleanup, but it needs more.  You aren't a newbie, you really should know how to edit an article by now.   Montanabw <sup style="color:orange;">(talk)  21:47, 30 June 2016 (UTC)


 * Thank you for your clarifications. Will decide what to do. RegardsJwilsonjwilson (talk) 12:53, 2 July 2016 (UTC)

Abu Farwa
I'm looking at a reader comment sent in to Wikimedia by OTRS regarding Abu Farwa. I don't think you are an OTRS agent (although perhaps you should be). Do you know an OTRS agent with interest in articles about horses? If you do, please share and I'll bug them. If you do not, my fallback position is to ask for permission to share the question with you. Would that be okay?-- S Philbrick (Talk)  14:23, 28 June 2016 (UTC)
 * I think I more or less fit that description,, if I can be of any help. Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 14:59, 28 June 2016 (UTC)
 * ticket:2016062810019398 Thanks in advance. I noticed after the fact that Montanabw has edited this article, so may be interested.-- S Philbrick (Talk)  15:11, 28 June 2016 (UTC)
 * and : I am not an OTRS agent, but perhaps that is something I should pursue.  Where do I go to look into this?  As for Abu Farwa, I am familiar with the horse and have a great deal of source material for him; let me know what's up, as I can fix any material in that article to RS if there was something problematic. I suppose OTRS will be needed for some photos (I think someone mentioned to me that they had images of him they had taken themselves... he died back in the early 70s, so we could find fair use images, but free is always better...   Montanabw <sup style="color:orange;">(talk)  18:12, 28 June 2016 (UTC)


 * Here's the place to apply for OTRS:


 * OTRS


 * If you do apply, let me know so I can add my name in support. There are several things that OTRS agents deal with; you hinted at one, helping with permissions for images. Another major class of items is dealing with email sent to Wikimedia identifying either problems in articles or asking questions. My query to you relates to someone who believes they found an error in the article. We take privacy very seriously so I apologize for being less than open about the issue. I've requested permission to share the problem with you but have not yet received a reply. If we do not get permission I suspect that justlettersandnumbers will be clever enough to ask you questions without violating confidences.


 * One additional point regarding OTRS agents. Many are admins; it is not a technical requirement. It is useful because many queries come in about an article that was deleted so the ability to see deleted material can be important but there are many tickets that don't require this ability.-- S Philbrick (Talk)  18:25, 28 June 2016 (UTC)
 * Sorry, two more points. The info queue (where people email with general problems) is almost under control, with a couple hundred open tickets in the English queue. More help is needed there, but the real need is in Permissions (making sure that permissions for images, and in rarer cases, text are proper and can be accepted.) I used to work in Permissions, but now concentrate on info. The backlog at Permissions is over 1000.-- S Philbrick (Talk)  18:31, 28 June 2016 (UTC)

Follow-up
I received permission to share the email so I emailed Montanabw the original and followup emails. I have more than a dozen active tickets so I am hoping I can leave it in your (joint) collective capable hands. Will that work?-- S Philbrick (Talk)  02:34, 29 June 2016 (UTC)


 * Got the email. The Abu Farwa email raises an old and well-discussed spat about an ancestor in his pedigree and I will address any corrections that need to be made in the article.  It's one of those things that modern equine coat color genetics understand quite well today, less so in the 1950s and 1960s. (Horse people can have unbelievable drama-o-rama about horse markings)  It's all about the white-spotting stuff, such as in the discussion of the Thoroughbred foal with the splashed white markings we are discussing in a thread above this one. On it, and thanks.   Montanabw <sup style="color:orange;">(talk)  03:49, 29 June 2016 (UTC)
 * , that's fine with me. A far as I can see, it's a topic that should be discussed on the talk page (I'd probably have responded to the ticket with a message to that effect). I'll send a note to suggest the person posts there, partly as a way of inviting in an apparently expert potential new editor. I'm completely clueless about the actual details of the breeding, NOT an area where I have expertise. Montana will surely deal with that. Regards to both, Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 08:47, 29 June 2016 (UTC)
 * I agree, and in many cases such as this I do recommend that the person use the article talk page. However when I saw the rather strong opinions in the subject matter I knew it would be a good idea to reach out to Montanabw. I didn't initially realize that Montanabw had edited this particular article; had I realize that I might've jump directly to suggesting use the talk page. However the note above makes it clear the right editor is involved :) Thanks to both of you for agreeing to get involved; it looks like it's in good hands. -- S Philbrick (Talk)  12:35, 29 June 2016 (UTC)
 * I have the situation fixed. The person pointed out a legitimate error that I hadn't spotted, and which I fixed. That said, they probably should be educated about what is and is not RS, lol (but they were right about the error). I'm getting a little frustrated at how much stuff is now being self-published or posted to Instagram or wherever.   Montanabw <sup style="color:orange;">(talk)  19:16, 29 June 2016 (UTC)
 * Thanks for getting involved. Based upon your response, I think it was clear we needed a subject matter expert, so I'm happy you stepped in - sorry if it was more work than you had hoped. Regarding RS - I've always been trouble about the general problem, but hoped it would be getting better - it may not be which has far-reaching consequences. -- S Philbrick (Talk)  22:58, 3 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Blogs, instagram, facebook, there is so much material being copied into those places, much of it crap but some of it not... yes. There is  lot of work to be done.   Montanabw <sup style="color:orange;">(talk)  23:09, 3 July 2016 (UTC)

Hook
Thank you very much for the good hook on Template:Did you know nominations/The creation of the violin. Is there the word "to" missing? "ALT5: ... the Roma fairy tale, The Creation of the Violin, features a fairy queen who uses the power of music to make people happy or sad?" NearEMPTiness (talk) 04:40, 5 July 2016 (UTC)

Poopers!
I just created Hillary Blumberg but misspelled Hilary - there's only one "l" in her name. Is that what your new "move tool" is all about? Can you rename it to Hilary Blumberg? <span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.3em 0.6em,#BFFF00 0.8em 0.8em 0.6em; color:#A2006D;">Atsme 📞📧 17:37, 5 July 2016 (UTC)

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Thanks
You inspired WP:CONFUSESTUB. Good job!--Paul McDonald (talk) 13:45, 6 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Hey! Thank you!  That was cool!  Montanabw <sup style="color:orange;">(talk)  21:44, 6 July 2016 (UTC)

In case you haven't read this...
It's interesting. <span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.3em 0.6em,#BFFF00 0.8em 0.8em 0.6em; color:#A2006D;">Atsme 📞📧 17:15, 7 July 2016 (UTC)

Duct tape occlusion therapy
Thank you so for the link to this posting Duct tape occlusion therapy ! I have a HUGE growth atop my shoulders, but I guess even 2 rolls of duct tape can't fix everything... Nikto  wha?  17:17, 7 July 2016 (UTC)


 * I pick things that hit my funny bone... I am not a medical professional and I do not recommend you try this at home! ;-)   Montanabw <sup style="color:orange;">(talk)  17:33, 7 July 2016 (UTC)

The Fat is in the Fire now...
I don't know if this is the first RfC I've ever filed, but I haven't filed many. Take a peek, all: Wikipedia_talk:Notability  Montanabw <sup style="color:orange;">(talk)  20:06, 7 July 2016 (UTC)

Thanks for the review..
Hi Montanabw. Thanks a lot for the GA review of Sabrina Sidney. It's been a few years since I went near the FA process, I was wondering if the article stood a chance? I'm not a big fan of the process, so would value your opinion on whether it's worth it. Same question to any Talk page Stalkers! <b style="text-shadow:0 -1px #DDD,1px 0 #DDD,0 1px #DDD,-1px 0 #DDD; color:#000;">Worm</b>TT(<b style="color:#060;">talk</b>) 15:39, 5 July 2016 (UTC)
 * (watching) Yes, go for it. It doesn't hurt, and there's nothing to loose. Cautious people do a peer review first. I have a FA mentioned in the last Signpost that was promoted the second attempt. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:27, 5 July 2016 (UTC)


 * PR takes a while, but it is a good idea before trying FAC. You might want to ping some of the regular FAC reviewers to do the PR, particularly those who have worked on UK subjects in the past.  Montanabw <sup style="color:orange;">(talk)  21:46, 6 July 2016 (UTC)


 * Just ping those who opposed Rob's RfA, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:39, 6 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Without irony: you have a collection of users there who ping each other for FA reviews. I don't, - for me the FAC page and the project page are enough to raise attention. - I recommend to ask Brianboulton and Ian Rose for a quick feasability check, - they see more FAs than we do. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:05, 7 July 2016 (UTC)

Barnstar for you
I'll second that!! <span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.3em 0.6em,#BFFF00 0.8em 0.8em 0.6em; color:#A2006D;">Atsme 📞📧 01:41, 9 July 2016 (UTC)

ani which you may be interested in, includes diffs
There is currently a discussion at Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you. Fouetté rond de jambe en tournant 23:51, 9 July 2016 (UTC)

Reference errors on 9 July
Hello, I'm ReferenceBot. I have automatically detected that an edit performed by you may have introduced errors in referencing. as follows: Please check this page and fix the errors highlighted. If you think this is a false positive, you can [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?action=edit&preload=User:A930913/RBpreload&editintro=User:A930913/RBeditintro&minor=&title=User_talk:A930913&preloadtitle=ReferenceBot%20–%20&section=new report it to my operator]. Thanks, ReferenceBot (talk) 00:19, 10 July 2016 (UTC)
 * On the Rosie Stephenson-Goodknight page, [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=729017191 your edit] caused an unsupported parameter error (help) . ([ Fix] | [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Help_desk&action=edit&section=new&preload=User:ReferenceBot/helpform&preloadtitle=Referencing%20errors%20on%20%5B%5BSpecial%3ADiff%2F729017191%7CRosie Stephenson-Goodknight%5D%5D Ask for help])

DYK for Tennessee Walking Horse National Celebration
Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 01:19, 10 July 2016 (UTC)

10 July
Took only 300 years to restore a good name. - Thank you for your work on the article. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 06:27, 10 July 2016 (UTC)

A little on my deletion phylosophy
As can be seen from my recent vote on Elijah Rasheed, I think that any leader with recognition throughout any church with millions of members is worth having an article on. I have to agree with you that we have way too many articles on people who have only appeared in pornographic films. I consistently vote delete on those articles, unless there is really good reason to keep, and I have never seen an article with even a marginally good reason to keep. On business people I very rarely see any, regardless of gender, who have any notability brought to AfD. I maybe should make more keep votes on academics, I vote in a fairly low percentage of the academic related AfDs I review, but in most of these cases the article has either been looking to be on the way to being saved, or I just do not have any confidence in the sources balancing out. I actually also take a long term view towards the pornographic actors categories, and in doing so am not quite as depressed about it. Yes, we have too many articles and keep them with far too shoddy reasoning. However, we used to have more articles than we do now, and even as Wikipedia overall has expanded, and in theory new people have become notable in the industry, stricter standards have cut the size of the category. It would be nice if more non-notable porn actors had their articles deleted, but I have to admit I just lack the patience to mount many deletion campaigns, especially when they are going to be contested. To me the biggest problem Wikipedia has in articles is articles created by people or their close friends to boost egos when they are no where near even marginally notable.John Pack Lambert (talk) 18:09, 10 July 2016 (UTC)


 * For me, I don't think that WP is in danger of running out of server space, and too many AfD discussions run into more bandwidth than a FAC, so to me, the presumption in favor of notability should be respected (i.e. the "no consensus" close should just be a "keep" IMHO) !  You are right that there is a problem with what I call "puff pieces" by generally non-notable people (just prod-tagged something like that yesterday) and articles written (usually poorly-written) by undisclosed paid editors are also a problem.  I would say that academics, ambassadors and people who work in the third world are the areas where I see too-rapid deletion, and yes, I agree that the problem is that when a person is actually creating content, it is hard to also take on various drama areas for reform; this AfD stuff is eating my wiki time.  The solution is probably a lot of people working together.  Montanabw <sup style="color:orange;">(talk)  18:36, 10 July 2016 (UTC)

Anglicans...
Don't exist prior to about 1536 or so (the line is pretty fuzzy). I don't touch anything past 1500 as far as ecclesiastics. Ealdgyth - Talk 18:50, 10 July 2016 (UTC)

Regarding your editorial critique of Deer Lodge Montana: History (redux)
I have substituted rewritten and referenced version. Hope this will be seen as improvement. RegardsJwilsonjwilson (talk) 18:15, 11 July 2016 (UTC)

A woman who might be notable
Currently a redirect, Nicole Hamilton. More on the talk page. Msnicki (talk) 19:50, 14 July 2016 (UTC)

Horse whips
I can certainly understand that you disagree with the result of this discussion, which deleted Category:Whips (horse), but how can you justify defying the decision that was made by creating Category:Horse whips shortly after the decision was implemented? (To me, that looks like disruptive behavior. I've deleted the new category as the functional equivalent to re-created material.) I do know what it's like to have decisions made about content that you disagree with or don't understand; it's not productive though for Wikipedia to try to circumvent community decisions that are made through the correct processes. If you want to challenge the decision that was made, the proper course would be to first bring it up with the user who closed the discussion, and then, if you are not satisifed, to use WP:DRV. Good Ol’factory (talk) 22:23, 14 July 2016 (UTC)
 * The CfD discussion got sidetracked from a rename to an upmerge discussion. The upmerge is inappropriate because the horse tack and equipment category has mostly been a diffusing category. I am adding a note to that category to reflect this reality. Also, I am seriously concerned that this equipment gets a "BDSM" category, which is derivative, while the equestrian equipment subcategory is removed.  This needs to be reversed.   Montanabw <sup style="color:orange;">(talk)  22:26, 14 July 2016 (UTC)
 * My last sentence above outlines the procedure that should be followed. To unilaterally decide to reverse a decision of CFD is disruptive. Good Ol’factory (talk) 22:28, 14 July 2016 (UTC)
 * The CfD was improperly posted, no one at WikiProject Equine was notified and I have been offline for a few days. This was a massive waste of time and bandwidth but if you insist, then fine, off to the drama boards we go (again).   Montanabw <sup style="color:orange;">(talk)  22:32, 14 July 2016 (UTC)
 * It was not improperly posted. There is no requirement that any WikiProject be notified of a nomination. Users and WikiProjects who care about particular content should watchlist it and/or create a system for monitoring the content they "claim". Many users and WikiProjects already do so, and that's the reason the requirement is that a CFD template be added to the category when it is nominated. Good Ol’factory (talk) 22:35, 14 July 2016 (UTC)
 * A lot of these CfDs don't seem to appear in article alerts, which we do have. Not sure if that's just a category tagging issue or what. Also, not all project members subscribe to article alerts.  At any rate an argument as stupid as "whips aren't just used on horses" is most certainly not a policy-based argument as the closer claimed to have followed.  As you commented, this is a dispute over a categorization scheme, and it is nothing about "claiming" a topic -- it is about WP:COMPETENCE and people knowing what equipment is used for.  Historic equipment claimed by the BDSM crowd needs to also be categorized with its proper and historic use, not defined by some ignorant group of people who wouldn't know a horse's ass from a hole in the ground. (the argument that equipment is used on dogs particularly floored me). I've notified the closer that he made a poor close.   Montanabw <sup style="color:orange;">(talk)  22:43, 14 July 2016 (UTC)
 * I can see several sides to this discussion, but the point that surprises me is how little alerting there was of articles relating to horse whips. I have been contacted before by editors very interested in catagorisation to discuss my edits, and to be honest, I simply don't understand some of the logic.  Although there might not be a requirement for alerts at relevant articles, perhaps there should be one to ensure those editors that deal with the subject matter (perhaps on a daily basis) know what is going on and that a true content-related consensus can be appraised. DrChrissy (talk) 23:12, 14 July 2016 (UTC)

I have come to the conclusion that most of the drama boards are toxic cesspits inhabited by people who rarely if ever actually create content and have no clue whatsoever about actual article curation. Yet, they scream "POLICY" and "CONSENSUS" at the drop of a hat, even when they actually can't really present any actual policy-based citations, and the WPALLCAPS links often don't even say what they state. The problem is, if people don't try to reform some of them, you get absolutely useless "consensus" (consensi? consensuses?) that are useless for people who actually use the encyclopedia. These deletion discussions are such a waste of time and energy. My view is that no one should be allowed to participate in a deletion discussion unless they have created content; most of the people at the drama boards wouldn't know how to create or properly curate content if it bit them. Sigh... Montanabw <sup style="color:orange;">(talk) 23:35, 14 July 2016 (UTC)
 * I hope you're not implying that I have rarely if ever created content and have no clue about article curation. If so, I feel you may have misjudged. My experience with CFD (at least—I'm not as active with AFD and wouldn't speak to that) is that the vast majority of the editors there are experienced with article content creation. Good Ol’factory (talk) 00:01, 15 July 2016 (UTC)
 * If memory serves, you only proposed the renaming of the category, which I was grumpy about but could live with. I started pounding my head against the wall about the upmerge, particularly after the person who argued that quirts are used on dogs, or that the upmerge was ok because "whips are used on other things besides horses" (**headdesk**) My rant is continued at BU Rob's page. But I don't want to invest a lot of time on this stupid thing.   Montanabw <sup style="color:orange;">(talk)  01:58, 15 July 2016 (UTC)
 * If it's any consolation, the user who made the comment about dogs often makes statements that perplex me. I've learned to nod and smile. Good Ol’factory (talk) 04:51, 15 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Slight. But apparently the closing admin read those remarks as statements of policy.   Montanabw <sup style="color:orange;">(talk)  05:36, 15 July 2016 (UTC)
 * I highly doubt that the admin did that. I would not assume the worst. Good Ol’factory (talk) 06:12, 15 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Well, we are (pun intended) probably beating a dead horse here. So I think I'm just going to close the thread. Montanabw <sup style="color:orange;">(talk)  06:16, 15 July 2016 (UTC)

Fulbright scholar
posted an interesting bit of info on my TP regarding Fulbright scholar. Apparently, such low numbers should carry some significance, no? I was led to believe they're a dime a dozen. Oh, and while I felt my last post in the AfD was important in quelching the ongoing drama, it may create an unintentional stir - never know what might materialize in such discussions - so I'll apologize in advance. SMirC-worry.svg <span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.3em 0.6em,#BFFF00 0.8em 0.8em 0.6em; color:#A2006D;">Atsme 📞📧 17:11, 17 July 2016 (UTC)


 * No worries, is just re-raising the debate about endowed chairs that was discussed two weeks ago. What we have going on here is nothing more and nothing less than a screaming case of a double standard cloaked in claims of "policy" that are taking an in-house AfD "consensus" that isn't even the consensus at WP:N... GNG is clear that the SNGs can stack-- even if a person doesn't meet a SNG singly, you can add accomplishments across multiple areas and meet notability.  Once again, we are seeing systemic bias against an article on a woman of color from the Third World (and Muslim, to boot), and that is a classic example of what gives Wikipedia a black eye as an environment haunted by people who are hostile to women and women's issues. This too shall pass.  Wikipedia is having growing pains again, and so long as good people of goodwill don't rage quit (or depression-quit) and just hang in there, eventually sanity will prevail.  Might be another 10 years from now and in the meantime it will feel like passing kidney stones or something, but...  Montanabw <sup style="color:orange;">(talk)  00:46, 18 July 2016 (UTC)
 * lol* <span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.3em 0.6em,#BFFF00 0.8em 0.8em 0.6em; color:#A2006D;">Atsme 📞📧 01:04, 18 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Those "low numbers" are for one country (the UK) for one year. They soon multiply. Take a look at our Fulbright Program article for some idea of the figures involved, . I'm not sure if more than 360,000 is "a dime a dozen", but it seems a lot to me. Cordless Larry (talk) 07:07, 18 July 2016 (UTC)


 * The UK is one thing, Pakistan is another. Sort of like kids getting into Harvard; in California, a few thousand is probably typical and no one cares but their mom and dad, but out here in Montana, 4 or 5 is pretty impressive and they all get an article in the local paper.  Fulbright scholars are a factor of considerably more than kids going to college, but the principle can be extended. And as I pointed out there, the ways an individual can be notable can be "stacked" -- a person on the margins or gray areas of several different SNGs can all add up to meet WP:N. And I think that is the case here.  Montanabw <sup style="color:orange;">(talk)  07:51, 18 July 2016 (UTC)
 * I'm willing to listen to that argument, but I just don't think it is the case here. When supposedly influential scholars, wherever they are from, publish with vanity presses such as VDM Publishing, it takes quite a lot of "stacking" to convince me. Cordless Larry (talk) 08:53, 18 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Is our encyclopedia judging notability on a worldwide scale which tells me rule-of-thumb is determined only by advantaged countries where the stats inherently reflect success and high numbers? If that's the case, we are not a world encyclopedia based on the accomplishments and notability of people's accomplishments in their respective countries which would include disadvantaged countries.  That would be judging everyone's notability disproportionately.  Being an American, I'm ok with making WP an American encyclopedia because America rules *lol* but it wouldn't be fair to do so because disadvantaged countries would be left out. I was under the impression we looked at notability based on national notability first - not unlike we do with national sports figures. <span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.3em 0.6em,#BFFF00 0.8em 0.8em 0.6em; color:#A2006D;">Atsme 📞📧 13:35, 18 July 2016 (UTC)
 * The problem is that pretty much anybody can publish with VDM, . Certainly someone capable of writing a Wikipedia article could (in fact, we probably already have done, as they "publish" collections of Wikipedia articles that they sell for extortionate cost on Amazon). So, yes, I don't expect someone from Pakistan to regularly be publishing books with OUP or CUP, but there is a middle ground that would still demonstrate notability. Cordless Larry (talk) 13:44, 18 July 2016 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Secretariat (horse)
Hi there, I'm pleased to inform you that I've begun reviewing the article Secretariat (horse) you nominated for GA-status according to the criteria. This process may take up to 7 days. Feel free to contact me with any questions or comments you might have during this period. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of Atsme -- Atsme (talk) 05:20, 20 July 2016 (UTC)

DYK for Wolkentanz
Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 03:32, 22 July 2016 (UTC)

DYK for Speightstown (horse)
Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 12:01, 21 July 2016 (UTC)


 * Nice profile! Dance to follow, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:18, 21 July 2016 (UTC)


 * Congrats to for what I think is their first DYK!   Montanabw <sup style="color:orange;">(talk)  18:55, 22 July 2016 (UTC)


 * Thanks for all the help!! Jlvsclrk (talk) 19:33, 22 July 2016 (UTC)

patents
What's the source for "Women were not even allowed to register patents in her time. ", referring to Catharine Littlefield Greene, as  you discussed at WP:N talk? Our article on her says "only because social norms inhibited women from registering for patents." which is very different.  DGG ( talk ) 18:10, 7 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Since women were not legal entities and often their earnings and assets belonged to their husbands or fathers, I am not sure how there can even be a question? The first Married Women's Property Acts in the United States did not start granting women control of their own property until the 1830s, and Greene died in 1814. However, since you ask, speaks directly to the situation with regard to patents, specifically on pages 7-8. SusunW (talk) 19:24, 7 July 2016 (UTC)
 * SusunW, even in the medieval period, legal disqualification to control their property applied only to married women, not for example, widows.  DGG ( talk ) 01:07, 8 July 2016 (UTC)

the ownership rights of widows in the middle ages were largely confined to a life estate in property, mostly so they could support their children and not see the land go to a different man's male line. There were variants from one nation to another as well, seen even today in various state laws governing divorce (community property states tend to be those that had strong Spanish influence and a different tradition from that of the English) so broad generalizations aren't particularly useful, especially when not fully explained. Montanabw <sup style="color:orange;">(talk) 02:58, 8 July 2016 (UTC)
 * I am well aware of the concept of feme soles, but as Montanabw points out, those were an outcropping of British common law. There was a similar vehicle called usus in Dutch law, but, more importantly most studies show that in both Europe and the U.S. the number of unmarried women at any given time fluctuated primarily based on war, disease, disaster killing off marriageable partners. Most studies confirm that on average 14-20% of any given population was unmarried at any given time (hard to break down single, divorced, widowed, because those statistics weren't readily kept, so most figures are based on female-led households). Even if you account for a margin of error, 75% of historic women were married. Even more, access to assets was limited. In the US, studies in the colonial period show women controlled about 4% of the assets. In the case of widowhood, that life interest Montanabw mentioned, usually entitled them use of 1/3 of an estate for their lifetime. They could live there, they could rent it, but it wasn't theirs to control as it belonged to the male heir. None of which negates my original point that women did not control their own assets nor property and had limited means to file for such things as patents. SusunW (talk) 15:54, 8 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Indeed,, and Wikipedia is not a perfect source. I am uncertain as to the year when women could file patents in their own right, but the point that there have been periods of time when women could not legally file a patent is true ...  For example in 1715, women could not file a patent, a man had to. But that source also hints at a woman obtaining a patent in 1795.  In the case of the cotton gin, the patent was in 1794. Another set of examples again notes the law in 1712.  What I am not sure of is at what point between 1715 and 1795 the laws changed; certainly the US Constitution in 1789 was a watershed year, and I believe the first US Patent laws were passed in 1790, but I am not certain at what point the law in America permitted women to file patents, if it came with the original 1790 statute or only later. this source notes the first woman to have a US patent in her own name was in 1809 and is "credited with being the first woman patentee in the United States." (though on the next page, the book hints at the possibility that women might have been able to file patents as early as 1790). The 1809 date is also noted here. Certainly the social convention existed long past the law itself.  This article notes that women also faced difficulties in getting the money to complete the patent process.   Montanabw <sup style="color:orange;">(talk)  19:53, 7 July 2016 (UTC)


 * The more fundamental question, which I will discuss elsewhere, is to what extent we adjust to cultural bias. In past time, and to some extent today but in a much lesser extent, it is not only women who were severely disadvantaged in   education, occupational possibilities, expected social role, and even legal capacity. In the US at that period black people were disadvantaged to a much greater extent. So were poor people: they could not vote either, and outside cities they were likely to be illiterate; though in the US at the time there were not  institutional bars against them people acquiring education, wealth, and a political role. In most earlier periods and most regions of the world, only a small  minority of people had the opportunity to have a political role, or education, though there was I think almost always some small degree of opportunity for upwards social mobility. See the classic statement in Elegy Written in a Country Churchyard.  Shall we include someone who could have been a notable scientist, or a judge, or an artist, or businessperson,  but whose sex prevented her education? There are hundreds of millions who could have done so except ... for the sex, their race, the social position, their poverty, the lack of opportunity in the times or country when they lived. Perhaps it might even be to most of the people who ever lived--they could have been notable enough for an encyclopedia, but...      We have no way  of judging what they could have done.  An encycopedia is devoted to the accounts of those, who by whatever combination of circumstances, actually did.
 * In a positive direction, we can include those who did do what was important enough to be notable, but were denied recognition, by adjusting the way we interpet the standards. That's wherethe emphasis should be. — Preceding unsigned comment added by User: (talk • contribs)
 * Well, that IS basically what I was trying to do ... looking at how the standards, especially the SNGs and the non-guideline, very non-policy "outcomes" pages are applied. Right now, they are applied with a white male first world bias, and that is not appropriate. Montanabw <sup style="color:orange;">(talk)  02:58, 8 July 2016 (UTC)


 * I'm not sure we do understand each other yet. I have argued at dozens of AfD for interpreting WP:RS broadly for people from other cultures  which do not have WP:RS conforming sources, and most of the time the argument has been accepted.  I have also argued at AfDs that decreasing the level of actual importance for non-white males is not appropriate. Or a Black person  is notable only in newspapers that are directed towards   Black readership, but are not mainstream in the usual sense, we might well accept that, at least before 1960 or 70.  But take a black man who  taught at a traditionally Black college in the early 20th century. Nowadays he might have become a notable researcher.  But how can we know this?  Or a woman who in the late 19th century became head of a  city's temperance society. Nowadays she might have become a state legislator and thus eligible for an article. But how can we possibly tell that?  There are mildly successful but not notable painters, both male and female. Can we assume the women would have been more successful if there had not been cultural prejudice?    But what we can  do: take for example  a scientist who worked with her notable  husband in the mid 20th century but not on the tenure track while he was, and worked jointly, and there are sources saying she was of equal importance. That should be accepted as notability--and is.


 * WP is an encyclopedia that discusses the real world as it is and as it was. The RW constructed barriers against many people.  DGG ( talk ) 04:22, 8 July 2016 (UTC).


 * I don't buy the "we have to take the world as it is and blindly follow the dominant culture's dictates," if that is what you mean. Clearly we look at the source material and follow where it leads.  We aren't engaged in crystal ball-gazing, we look to sources.  Your example of coverage in "black newspapers" prior to the 1970s is exactly what I am talking about; for women, it might be a society column instead of the front page.  Or it might be noticing that the same woman scientist is listed as second author to the Department head in 100 articles and realizing that the ultimate discovery was hers. That's not "original research" nor is it "synthesis," it is following the source material where it leads.  Montanabw <sup style="color:orange;">(talk)  04:32, 8 July 2016 (UTC)
 * I do NOT mean to be contentious, but would like to point out that "black newspapers" were as a rule local and regional sources, which I have seen you argue time and time again are not reliable. This is why we are asking for clarification. The "rules" are unevenly applied. SusunW (talk) 15:54, 8 July 2016 (UTC)
 * , I generally object to using local sources to show notability when there ought to be better sources if the person is truly important (e.g if a technology company has only local sources, they are not significant enough for an article) ; I have always consistently from the day I came here argued for being flexible about sourcing in cases where because of bias the sources are not likely to cover even the important individuals. There is a difference. To the extent we are ever flexible about such sources its in part because of the work I and a few of my colleagues did here back in 07 and 08.    DGG ( talk ) 05:20, 23 July 2016 (UTC)
 * , thank you for all you've tried to accomplish, and for your diligence and understanding. I never realized the depth of the issues we're facing because until recently, I had limited exposure to arguments at AfD, and prefer to keep it that way, but realize I'm reaching for stars. I am sincerely trying to develop a better understanding of the entire process from many different perspectives, but it's far too difficult for me to simply dismiss the low notability requirements for a JV sports player or porn star while the opposite holds true for academics, female notables, philanthropists, authors and television news personalities. WP:N has become a minefield rather than a helpful guideline because we often find ourselves debating situations where CIR should be applied, particularly in situations where !votes reflect a rush to judgment or lack of understanding because the time wasn't invested in reaching a fair and neutral determination. There are instances of bias, as well as an inability to properly interpret guidelines or make decisions per IAR.  I've also experienced situations where COI issues have erupted where there were none - misguided suspicion often results in a wrongful verdict which is something I can speak to from experience.  Another prime example is seen in television journalism, specifically a notable news correspondent/journalist who has won prestigious national awards for excellence in reporting on-the-scene (in US or another country) in dangerous situations, such as a natural disaster in the making, civil unrest, etc. With regards to independent sources, common sense tells us that it's highly unlikely networks and MSM are going to write about their competitors when they have their own to write about.  What does that do to "independent" sources?  I seriously doubt we'll see major networks like ABC, CBS, NBS, FOX, etc. with all their numerous subsidiaries including digital news sources, publishing companies, radio stations, etc., publishing "multiple articles" about a notable news correspondent who reports for the competition.  Unfortunately, according to WP:N such sources are not considered independent, therefore are being wrongfully excluded.  Common sense isn't so common anymore.  The same applies to universities that publish articles about their alumni or when a notable religious or ethnic organization recognizes notable achievements of a member, etc..  Regional awards (multiple) are also being excluded without considering recipients are judged by peers, or taking into account the impact and sheer volume of local tv news stations in a particular region, not to mention the award being based on the extent of the impact to that region.  Award recognition for having made landmark strides as a minority is also being dismissed and the list goes on.  We're actually not lowering the standards by allowing such sources to determine notability, particularly dating from 2005 & before, back to a time when the information age was in its earliest stages of development.  What we're doing now is actually perpetuating bias by assuming bias when we should be recognizing notability where notability is due.  It's time for WP to change it's thinking and enter the 21st Center regarding its acceptability and determination of RS.<span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.3em 0.6em,#BFFF00 0.8em 0.8em 0.6em; color:#A2006D;">Atsme 📞📧 13:12, 23 July 2016 (UTC)


 * It actually isn't a "source" issue - it's a double standards issue. We can't eliminate the bias until we eliminate the double standards but in order to eliminate the double standards we have to eliminate the bias....and well, here we are today. SMirC-facepalm.svg <span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.3em 0.6em,#BFFF00 0.8em 0.8em 0.6em; color:#A2006D;">Atsme 📞📧 16:53, 8 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Atsme makes a real good point that the double standard is alive and well, and comparing SNGs such as WP:PORNSTAR versus WP:ACADEMIC is a particularly egregious example. NSPORTs also has issues with women's sports notability, far fewer professional leagues for women but compared to extremely minor professional leagues for men, the general discouragement of "amateur" sports leagues presents a bias... rather than examining the quality of the players on the league, they apply a broad brush, leaving out many women in team sports that don't reach to an international level.  Montanabw <sup style="color:orange;">(talk)  19:07, 8 July 2016 (UTC)
 * How sporting of them. <span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.3em 0.6em,#BFFF00 0.8em 0.8em 0.6em; color:#A2006D;">Atsme 📞📧 15:36, 10 July 2016 (UTC)

Wikipedia Primary School
Re : This category does go on talk pages, see Categories_for_discussion/Log/2016_July_6. – Fayenatic  L ondon 06:25, 24 July 2016 (UTC)

Indigenous women & Polar women editathons
(To subscribe, Women in Red/Invite list. Unsubscribe, Women in Red/Opt-out list) --Rosiestep (talk) 21:08, 24 July 2016 (UTC) via MassMessage

First ever AfD alert of the day
I've decided that instead of beating my head against the wall every time I read WikiProject Women/Article alerts (8 AfDs noted in today's edition), I'm going to take a page from 's book. Every time I read AfD and get frustrated, I will choose one of the articles that I think is particularly worth salvaging and post it here on my talk page for anyone who watchlists my page to look over for themselves. To try and minimize drama here, I shall just post the AfD page. I will not comment as to my reasoning here (but I will at the AfD). Here is my first one: Articles for deletion/Pooja Dhingra. Montanabw <sup style="color:orange;">(talk) 03:50, 17 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Saw this linked to on Keilana's talk page, came around to see if I could help, found it closed already. I wanted to encourage the effort, but couldn't; so, in lieu of notability help, have an image. --GRuban (talk) 18:20, 18 July 2016 (UTC)

SAVED! Montanabw <sup style="color:orange;">(talk) 20:13, 18 July 2016 (UTC)
 * So, um ... any others that you think are worthwhile to look into saving? I took a quick glance over WikiProject Women/Article alerts and saw mostly minor actresses... --GRuban (talk) 14:09, 25 July 2016 (UTC)

Chrome is back!
I see there are a bunch of parked update links at the Chrome talk page, but not sure what the protocol is. An update is needed though since he just won the San Diego. Probably should mention the Pegasus thingie too, since it sounds like they'll keep him in training for it. The Pacific Classic this year could be a real race if Chrome, Beholder, Effinex, Nyquist and Dortmund all show up as currently planned. Jlvsclrk (talk) 03:28, 24 July 2016 (UTC)
 * If they'd bring American Pharoah back to training and enter him in the Pegasus with Chrome and Nyquist, that would be the greatest horse race possible! (I know that's extremely unlikely, but still...it'd be something to see. Like the old match races but better.) White Arabian Filly  Neigh 18:07, 24 July 2016 (UTC)
 * LOL. Sure, and let's ship Frankel over while we're at it, for a royal Donnybrook. :) Is anyone else having trouble updating today? Having a devil of a time making updates. Jlvsclrk (talk) 23:10, 24 July 2016 (UTC)
 * I've been having a weird thing going on with pages scrolling up and down when I'm in the edit window. Very odd. White Arabian Filly  Neigh 20:46, 25 July 2016 (UTC)


 * I'm back on-wiki. What I'm noticing is that my computer connection is slower than snot, everywhere.  Sunspots?  Montanabw <sup style="color:orange;">(talk)  21:05, 25 July 2016 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Secretariat (horse)
The article Secretariat (horse) you nominated as a good article has passed ; see Talk:Secretariat (horse) for comments about the article. Well done! If the article has not already been on the main page as an "In the news" or "Did you know" item, you can nominate it to appear in Did you know. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of Atsme -- Atsme (talk) 21:01, 30 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Nice! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:12, 30 July 2016 (UTC)
 * We were, as they say, moving like a TREMENDOUS MACHINE! LOL! Thank Atsme, for a thorough(bred) review, and especially to  for a lot of hard work -- and access to hardcover books!  Montanabw <sup style="color:orange;">(talk)  03:13, 31 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Happy days! So happy. Jlvsclrk (talk) 06:43, 31 July 2016 (UTC)

Of all the policies you need to read before citing, Proposed deletion is number one.
You keep removing prods with summaries like this one: "makes a claim to notability, so passes PROD". Have you read Proposed deletion? Ever? Because you're quoting the rationale for removing a speedy tag, not a prod. A prod is meant to indicate that there is no reasonable expectation that the article would survive an AfD. Articles with mere unsupported claims to notability are deleted through prod constantly. You can't honestly believe that all the articles from which you are removing prods stand a reasonable chance of being kept at AfD. Many of these articles offer no source at all, reliable or otherwise, and Google offers nothing either. Please read the policies I keep pointing you at, every word of them, before you continue to waste everyone's time with these unnecessary AfDs. Because, honestly, this level of willful ignorance of policy, if continued, could rise to the level of actionable disruption, as could continual mal-justified keep votes on one particular editor's AfD's, in what is increasingly coming to look like bad faith. — swpb T 12:58, 1 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Get the beam out of your own eye, swpb. WP:CONTESTED says, quite clearly "To object to and therefore permanently prevent a proposed deletion, remove the proposed deletion/dated tag from the article". The PROD template itself says "You may remove this message if you improve the article or otherwise object to deletion for any reason". False allegations of disruption are themselves disruptive. Consider yourself warned. Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 14:57, 1 August 2016 (UTC)
 * The allegation isn't false (I'm not sure you've observed the full pattern), but it could be premature: whether it ends up meritting action is entirely determined by how Montana goes forward. And while the policy is that a prod can be removed for any reason, consistently removing prods for a bad reason, especially while targeting one prod'er, is 100% disruptive. I don't know how you can imagine that it isn't. To Montana, it would be unwise to conclude from Andy's incorrect comment that you can't eventually find yourself in trouble. I don't expect you will, but I've been around enough to be confident that you can.  — swpb T 15:00, 1 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Montana did nothing wrong. Take your mock outrage somewhere else....William, is the complaint department really on the roof? 15:29, 1 August 2016 (UTC)
 * , I check WikiProject Women/Article alerts, an which pops up on my watchlist daily (that's how many article about women are PRODed and AfD'd, it's ridiculous), and  then I'm sometimes drawn to the various topic lists and pages that are linked at the same time as these.  I have placed PROD templates, and I have removed PROD templates.  I have sometimes left PROD templates alone because I agree with them.  I have !voted both "keep" and "delete" on AfDs (though I am admittedly on the inclusionist side), and my friendly talk page stalkers have given you good advice: Get over it and please leave me alone.   Montanabw <sup style="color:orange;">(talk)  17:45, 1 August 2016 (UTC)
 * I only want one thing from you, and that's more care taken. Four or five times now, you've asserted that policies and guidelines say things that they clearly do not say, or that sources have been added where they haven't. That must stop, immediately and forever. Either read the policies and guidelines, or don't mention them at all. As for your apparently particular interest in what I'm doing, if you say you have no such interest, I'll take your word for it, until you give me good reason not to. — swpb T 17:52, 1 August 2016 (UTC)
 * swpb, unless you can actually point to some evidence of "asserting that policies and guidelines say things that they clearly do not say" and "claiming that sources have been added where they haven't", you're starting to cross the line into harassment here. ("Four or five" problematic edits out of 88,000 will get you laughed out of ANI if you're foolish enough to try to escalate this, in any case.) For the record, one does not need and never has needed to provide any reason for contesting a proposed deletion, and "anyone can deprod anything for whatever reason they like" is a principle which has always been upheld whenever it's been questioned, most recently last month. &#8209; Iridescent 18:19, 1 August 2016 (UTC)
 * How about four or five in less than a week, all of the same pattern? Not enough for ANI (which you brought up, not me), but not as innocent as you'd have it sound. Here's the diff of "claiming that sources have been added where they haven't", clear as a bell—were you really suggesting I'd just make that up? I don't think "anyone can deprod anything for whatever reason they like" was meant to include bad faith removals. And no, there isn't enough to support a case of bad faith yet; Montana will decide if there eventually is. I don't want to keep coming back to this talk page, but there's no reason I should let your misrepresentation stand unanswered. — swpb T 18:26, 1 August 2016 (UTC)
 * "anyone can deprod anything for whatever reason they like" does indeed mean any reason or none. Ealdgyth - Talk 18:28, 1 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Start an RfQ on "editor A continuously and selectively removes editor B's prods" and we'll see how far that logic goes. — swpb T 18:31, 1 August 2016 (UTC)
 * If you noticed the history, another editor DID begin to locate additional sources, and I think added one to the article.  Montanabw <sup style="color:orange;">(talk)  19:33, 1 August 2016 (UTC)

This has become harassment. Like all of the editors in this thread, I believe Montana hasn't done anything a normal uninvolved contributor like myself would do, and User:swpb needs to take their cases to AfD as opposed to complaining on the page of the editor who happened to remove a PROD in good faith. BusterD (talk) 19:09, 1 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Indeed. swpb, you need to take a serious chill pill.  In the meantime, perhaps you should consider if you have done an adequate job of WP:BEFORE. Before wasting more server space arguing over overeager AfDs than the article itself would require to be at FAC, maybe remember that there is no deadline. Or just hang at NPP and keep tossing all the garage band and one-season junior hockey players; that's the work of the angels and we'd all appreciate you for it.   Montanabw <sup style="color:orange;">(talk)  19:32, 1 August 2016 (UTC)

The first thing you need to read is the opening sentence of Proposed deletion: "Proposed deletion (PROD) is a way to suggest an article for uncontroversial deletion." That double emphasis on uncontroversial deletion is there for a reason: PROD is not suitable for articles where there is a reasonable possibility that its deletion may be debatable. That principle lies at the very heart of both of our short-cut processes. It is abundantly clear from Articles for deletion/Ray Galletti that there is some difference of opinion about whether Gallietti appearing in four notable TV series is sufficient to meet our notability guidelines. If MontanaBW believes that appearing in those four notable TV series may be a sufficient claim to notability to mean its deletion is not uncontroversial, then she's perfectly entitled to remove the PROD. That she gave you the courtesy of leaving a reason in her edit summary is something you should be grateful for, not something that requires your presence here to whine about. You owe her an apology, and you need to re-think your approach to editors who remove PRODs in good faith. Nobody elected you marshall to clean up PRODding, and you need to back off. --RexxS (talk) 22:08, 1 August 2016 (UTC)

Digital Anthropology research
Hello Montanabw, My name is Stephanie Barker and I am a student at the University of Colorado Boulder. I am currently enrolled in a Digital Anthropology class, which attempts to answer how the digital world affects culture and how culture affects the digital world. For my final project I am doing an ethnography on women Wikipedia users and as a member of the WikiProject Women page I was hoping I could ask you some questions about your experiences editing Wikipedia pages. 1. Have you ever been locked into an intense editing war? If yes, please explain the situation to me. 2. How did you become interested in editing Wikipedia pages and did you have any initial fears/hesitations when you started editing pages? 3. Have you ever been a victim of a mass deletion or other vandalism on Wikipedia? If yes, please explain the situation to me. 4. How would you describe your gender? 5. Is there anything else you would like to share with me about your experiences as a Wikipedia editor? Thank you for taking the time to read this email. I would like you to know that I am only sharing my research with my professor and the other students in my class. If you would like me to send you a copy of my final project, I would be more than happy to! Sincerely, Stelba90 (talk) 00:45, 2 August 2016 (UTC)
 * , I would be glad to answer you off-wiki. Can you send me an email? Thanks.   Montanabw <sup style="color:orange;">(talk)  01:14, 2 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Wikipedia has suspended my ability to send emails because I have sent too many today. Could you possibly email me instead? Stelba90 (talk) 01:18, 2 August 2016 (UTC)
 * I tend not to respond first when someone asks me to contact them, for simple safety reasons. But go ahead and try in a couple days...  Montanabw <sup style="color:orange;">(talk)  02:27, 2 August 2016 (UTC)

Name for an article
Hall of Fame harness racing driver William D. 'Buddy' Gilmour. Should I name the article William D. Gilmour (William Gilmour already has an article) or Buddy Gilmour? He was more commonly known as Buddy. BTW I just did an article on HOF driver Jim Dennis....William, is the complaint department really on the roof? 12:56, 1 August 2016 (UTC)


 * I think Buddy Gilmour could work, though William D is acceptable.  Montanabw (talk) 05:55, 9 August 2016 (U

Easy Goer photo
Hello Montana, thanks for your help with the photo. Here is a photo of Easy Goer in action in his record-setting Gotham Stakes mile in 1:32 2/5. https://www.thoroughbredracing.com/articles/looking-back-gothams-glorious-history/                        Peteski132 (talk) 04:32, 2 August 2016 (UTC) Thanks so much Montana. Peteski132 (talk) 04:51, 2 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Done. Note the fair use rationale.  We can only use it in the one article.   Montanabw <sup style="color:orange;">(talk)  04:48, 2 August 2016 (UTC)

Articles for deletion/No Woman (film) (4th nomination)
Hello: I post this link as it may be of interest to you. I can see both sides of the argument on this one. So check it, if you desire or not. Kierzek (talk) 17:24, 4 August 2016 (UTC)

In case you find interest
Hello Montanabw. We recently participated in a discussion which motivated my filing of an Arbcom request. Although you are not a named party, your interest in the RFC mentioned juxtaposes to potential interest in the Arbcom request as well. I am therefore, inviting you to consider your own interest in the matter, and welcoming your involvement should you find it desirous. Best--John Cline (talk) 17:23, 5 August 2016 (UTC)

DYK
I'm hoping you can fill a prep set or two as I am almost out of hooks that I can promote. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 18:54, 10 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Thank you. Just what was needed. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 05:02, 11 August 2016 (UTC)
 * I'll take a good whack at it; some of yours have pictures, so may have to be spread out a bit. Montanabw (talk) 05:14, 11 August 2016 (UTC)

Thanks
Thanks for, through your user page, pointing me towards Randy in space. Gave me a good chuckle to start my day. Cheers, Airplaneman   ✈  11:14, 11 August 2016 (UTC)

3 hands dyk
Thanks for rescuing this from limbo.--Smerus (talk) 15:28, 12 August 2016 (UTC)

Lauren Kieffer
Although Lauren and Veronica took a bad spill yesterday on the BRUTAL Rio cross-country course, which took out many riders, she had a nice write-up in The New Yorker over the weekend. Thought you might appreciate it. (Horse and rider were uninjured BTW.) Vesuvius Dogg (talk) 15:03, 9 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Cool article, but they need to put the horse stuff on TV when people can see it... I saw about 3 seconds of somebody on the cross-country course, and then they flipped to swimming. Again. White Arabian Filly  Neigh 20:09, 9 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Yes, like anyone gives a rat's rear end about the qualifying heats in swimming. I want to see the horses -- and the fun weird stuff like fencing or yachting! Montanabw (talk) 05:16, 11 August 2016 (UTC)

Hey and  -- here's another good New Yorker article, this one on dressage:. Montanabw (talk) 05:32, 11 August 2016 (UTC)
 * I saw a bit of dressage today. I think it was Charlotte Dujardin and Valegro, but not sure. The other day a woman in the bookstore I go to said that most of the horse stuff is on USA channel, which I don't have. At least they're showing trampolines and archery. White Arabian Filly  Neigh 20:07, 12 August 2016 (UTC)

RfC on pageant notability
You mention that you had opened such on my talk page, but did not provide a link.John Pack Lambert (talk) 03:54, 15 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Looks like you found it. Sorry that I forgot the link.   Montanabw (talk) 06:00, 16 August 2016 (UTC)

A cool tool
I came across this on the dog WikiProject. It's recent changes to articles, but only tailored to a specific project, not everything on Wikipedia. Do we have this on the horse project? (If we do I can't find it.) Do you think we could get it or set it up somehow? It's very handy for fighting vandals, and would be especially good for those who don't have everything watchlisted. White Arabian Filly Neigh 15:08, 10 August 2016 (UTC)


 * That's a part of MediaWiki, not specific to the dog project. Go to any page and click "Related changes" on the sidebar and it will generate the list for everything linked on that page. To get it to work for every horse article, you'd need to generate a page equivalent to WikiProject_Dogs/Related which includes a link to every horsey article—if you ask Anomie nicely, AnomieBOT can keep such a list automatically updated based on categories. &#8209; Iridescent 15:57, 10 August 2016 (UTC)


 * Yes, such pages are very useful. Many moons ago, one was created for WP:WikiProject Middle-earth, which is at WikiProject Middle-earth/Pages (similar examples exist in a number of places, see for example these search results). I knew about this, but had forgotten that you can get a bot to create it! (I want to do a similar page for WWI topics, but haven't found time to request it yet). Such a list based on categories can end up including articles on the edge of a project's scope, so you might want to tailor the initial list a bit and then periodically update it with new articles from something like User:AlexNewArtBot. I recently asked for User:AlexNewArtBot/WWISearchResult to be created, but am struggling to understand the coding used there. Carcharoth (talk) 16:39, 10 August 2016 (UTC)


 * Because I'm, like, helpful and shit, here's every article on Wikipedia which falls into Category:Horses or one of its subcategories, sorted by category. Because Category:Summer Olympic disciplines is included under Category:Equestrian sports, someone will need to go through and remove all the non-horsey Olympic events. It also includes some things which are only very tangentially related to horses and which you probably don't want in your remit, like locomotives which were owned by primarily horse-drawn railways, or towns which were founded by Cossacks. Feel free to move/copy the list elsewhere if you want to bring it under the project's remit. &#8209; Iridescent 17:37, 10 August 2016 (UTC)


 * Ah, but what about all the articles tagged by WikiProject Horses? The full list of 3533 is here; compare that with the over 20,000 articles on the list you created. Articles tagged by a WikiProject and articles within a categorisation scheme produce lists that can be quite different. Sometimes there are also articles that haven't been tagged or categorised yet (either too obscure or too new). Carcharoth (talk) 20:17, 10 August 2016 (UTC)


 * It's actually WikiProject Equine (shortcut WPEQ) -- we include donkeys, mules, zebras... the old "wikiproject horses" should be a redirect to WPEQ now
 * No Eohippus, then? That's just prejudice against us old'uns. --T-RexxS (rawr) 22:28, 10 August 2016 (UTC)
 * The predecessors to equus (genus) count too...! LOL!   Montanabw [[User talk:Montanabw|(talk) |undefined 22:31, 10 August 2016 (UTC)


 * Just like all the whole Equus family. Horsegeek (talk) 23:58, 19 August 2016 (UTC)Horsegeek

I accidentally messed up your signature. Horsegeek (talk) 00:00, 20 August 2016 (UTC)Horsegeek

Thank you
Thank you for your vote of confidence and your kind comment back in April in support of my nomination for Editor of the Week, which I just got today, to my great surprise. I find your user page quite interesting. I can relate to the early one on the left, saying that you'll take some time off the computer...after just one more edit. I've let food burn on the stove just trying to finish an article. Thanks again! – Corinne (talk) 20:11, 21 August 2016 (UTC)

The question in the ANI thread has been changed
Hi there, thanks for your feedback about the question- I've changed it as per your and Gerda's suggestion. You may wish amend your comment; though I have made a note of the question's change. jcc (tea and biscuits) 21:20, 21 August 2016 (UTC)

YGM
--Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 03:30, 23 August 2016 (UTC)

Required notice
There is currently a discussion at Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you. — swpb T 19:59, 19 August 2016 (UTC)


 * Hey everyone, this is a real dandy, I'm inviting everyone to this party, and if you want to watch, bring your popcorn!  Montanabw (talk) 17:24, 20 August 2016 (UTC)
 * I like mine sweet-and-sour! ;-) DrChrissy (talk) 17:55, 20 August 2016 (UTC)


 * Turned out sweet, matching a TFA on justice. Why does WP need so many inventive ways to waste time? Look! How many articles of DYK quality could have been written with that accumulated writing skill. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:53, 21 August 2016 (UTC)


 * Glad things turned out OK in the Pit Of Hell. Sorry I could not support you in the boomerang - I actually think the damn things should not be allowed without a completely separate thread being started.  I've seen too many people "escape" because a boomerang is thrown which deflects attention from the original "offender" (not suggesting you were an offender here). All the best. DrChrissy (talk) 16:04, 21 August 2016 (UTC)


 * You DO make a good point about boomerangs. That is food for thought and I should mull it over.  Perhaps we should look at the WP:BOOMERANG essay and open an appropriate discussion at the relevant pages.   Montanabw (talk) 17:44, 21 August 2016 (UTC)
 * IMO, it is a fairly poor point as the original poster often does not have "clean hands" and all behavior should be looked at in the same thread. --<b style="color:navy">Neil N </b> <i style="color:blue">talk to me</i> 18:13, 21 August 2016 (UTC)
 * That often is true (and I personally have benefitted from boomerangs several times when I have been attacked in a way that turned out to be quite a bad faith post by the filing party). But the question is if they are really fair and if they have a chilling effect on people bringing legitimate cases to ANI.  I'm OK chatting about this a bit here on my page to see what thoughts arise.   Montanabw (talk) 18:18, 21 August 2016 (UTC)
 * If they have a chilling effect then that's good. Perhaps the poster realizes their own behavior contributed to the situation and will think twice when they know all behavior is examined. ANI threads are not court cases. The "accused" can point out problems with the accuser's behavior and experienced editors and admins can look at the whole situation. If you have two threads I can practically guarantee 75% of the content will be duplicated. And what if multiple editors are involved? --<b style="color:navy">Neil N </b> <i style="color:blue">talk to me</i> 18:28, 21 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Boomerangs are not good when you know that multiple followers will pile in, distract discussion from the main issue you wanted addressed, and get you sanctioned in the process. If someone has an issue with an OP that is sufficiently strong, they will/should be sufficiently motivated to start a separate thread.  Aren't issues at AN/I usually raised by a single editor, so I don't understand where the multiple editors is a concern wrt boomerangs. DrChrissy (talk) 19:30, 21 August 2016 (UTC)

This is why it is a sticky issue. , as I've said, I have personally benefitted from boomerangs that landed on people who dragged me to ANI in bad faith (some have even blocked), so for me it has sometimes been a good antidote to bullying—when it is the "real" bully who filed. But for actual victims, the propensity of bullies to double down and threaten a boomerang is very, very scary -- and I've been threatened with boomerangs a time or two, luckily with none thrown. So I can also relate to 's view. And of course, there are a few people who have claimed that I am bullying them (I don't think so, of course, but the "you're the bully/no, YOU'RE the bully" argument is completely fruitless). On the above one, I did ask for a boomerang, but mostly for just the reason you list -- to discourage further disruption and frivolous filing. (I should start an essay titled, "ANI is not your shmoo"). But I've seen it abused. I could see a "close with suggestion that victim consider action at the appropriate board..." Montanabw (talk) 22:28, 21 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Idle comment: Perhaps it's the sunny weather where I am, but I feel ANI's bark is worse than its bite. Sure there's random tangents, pile-ons, some silly comments and occasional false equivalences. But most actual outcomes seem reasonable enough.


 * A fringe view, I know. -- Euryalus (talk) 03:50, 23 August 2016 (UTC)


 * Well, speaking as someone with a clean block log, I have no grounds to personally disagree, but I've seen some other folks get dogpiled. At the end of the day, I'd rather be dragged to ANI than ArbCom, I'll say that much!  (grin)  Montanabw (talk) 04:52, 23 August 2016 (UTC)

Sinatra
I've never made a "push" to promote Sinatra to FAC, and who the hell are you to judge my own editorial decisions in the article, you couldn't be bothered to work on it when I invited you, all you did was conflict with RO like a seven year old girl. The infobox looked hideous, excessively long and bloated, making the article look amateurish. Given that I was trying to produce a better article, a simple photograph looked much more attractive. Perfectly justified. More inappropriate was your behaviour on the talk page turning up to try to force something on an article you'd not edited. You're exactly the sort of editor wikipedia needs to crack down on with infobox enforcement. Learn to respect the views of others and butt out.♦ Dr. Blofeld  08:28, 23 August 2016 (UTC)


 * Chill, Blofeld. First off, neither you nor I had done much work on the article before you decided is was -- appropriately -- a good FAC candidate. Second, my interest at the time stemmed in part from my father's then-recent death and his fondness for the "rat pack" performers of that era such as Sinatra, Dean Martin, etc. (I made some edits on Dino's article too, also Wayne Newton, etc...) You also conveniently seem to forget that RO drove you batshit nuts.  Luckily for you, I was the one who engaged with that highly disruptive (and now indeffed) editor and freed you up to to the more substantive work that you wanted to do.  Also keep in mind that most of the time when I proposed something in the article, you were a little touchy about it, (you really do kind of have to look at your own tendencies toward a wee tiny bit of ownership, my friend) so the only issue I pushed on was the infobox, where we actually reached a compromise that didn't quite satisfy either of us, but that's what a compromise is; each gives a little to get a little.  The infobox there did need improvement, and the collapsing was my very sincere attempt to reach a middle ground and so we got the look you wanted (which I still think is ugly, but oh well) but the metadata and collected information that I felt necessary was included (which you didn't really care for, but you could live with it).  My view is that we each are entitled to our personal opinions and to express them.  Now, let's get back to quality content and stop attacking each other.  Someday the infobox wars will be settled, then maybe we can take that skillset and move onto negotiating peace in the Middle East or resolving the abortion debate in a manner that will leave all sides holding hands and singing Kumbayah.  Montanabw (talk) 16:45, 23 August 2016 (UTC)

If there wasn't a certain degree of ownership by people who bother to put in weeks of work on articles promoting them to GA and FA then decent articles would soon rot again and you know it. You're the same. If I went and proposed to remove infoboxes on some of your horse articles by starting a thread on the talk page and inviting people like SchroCat, Cassianto and Ssilvers to comment, you'd think "Who the heck is this guy to think he can lay down the law on these articles?". You'd be outraged that people who contribute nothing to horse articles would think it within their right to control what you've done, right?♦ Dr. Blofeld  18:13, 23 August 2016 (UTC)


 * You make a good point, as far as content goes. But on formatting, though sometimes it does admittedly make me very, very, grumpy (even to the point that I'm dragged kicking and screaming into making the requested changes and I might have bruised feelings for some time after) I actually have been asked to change citation formats (early on, usually at GAN), and even after FAC, some people have pointed out formatting and layout things to me such as accessibility concerns in ALT text for images, or colors of quoteboxes and such. ( recalls that I got hit with the latter on California Chrome in fact -- and right in the middle of my RfA -- the user who did it was being a total troll about their timing and they knew it, but it was a legitimate issue, no matter how irritating the source).  So, I agree with you very much on questions of content, absolutely.  But when it comes to the techie stuff -- and infoboxes, to me, are techie stuff -- I certainly do have my preferred style and way of doing things, but if the tide turns against me, there are times I've just learned to sigh deeply and say, "well, whatever the wikigods decree this week."   Montanabw (talk) 18:56, 23 August 2016 (UTC)


 * All that said, for the record, I think that there can be a lot done with cleaning up infoboxes (some are bloated, I don't like the ones with bar of color at the top, etc...I think the design should be standardized across all areas... only content and parameters alter from one subject area to another), but I sincerely do think they have a legitimate purpose in most articles, for all the reasons we've all laid out a hundred times already.  Montanabw (talk) 18:56, 23 August 2016 (UTC)