User talk:MonteGargano

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Help with Latin
Hi, thanks so much for your contributions!

I have created a personal user award to recognize contributions related to ancient Roman history, which I have dubbed "The Barnstar of Tacitus". Is my translation correct: "stella horreorum Taciti"? Thanks. Informata ob Iniquitatum (talk) 21:36, 7 June 2018 (UTC)


 * The problem here is that "barnstar" (as a description of a 5-pointed star) is an idiom that makes no sense in Latin. Thus, a "translation" like "stella horrei" would mean a star belonging to a barn, and that doesn't mean anything.  As a modern English idiom, the term "barnstar" (meaning "a reward" or an acknowledgement of success) stems from the idea of a builder's mark, placed on a completed building.  Such a mark is more-or-less equivalent to the inscriptions on Roman buildings, but that doesn't fit the image implied by the English word.  A closer match would be the various impressions that the Roman legions made on their bricks; the buildings forever carried their mark, though again, those marks were mostly inscriptions.  If we continue with the idea of the legions and their marks, the word "signum" comes to mind as a useful term.  The aquila was the signum for all the legions, and then each legion had its own particular signum.  From this you might choose "signum stellare Taciti", "the starry ensign of Tacitus".  Less military would be a word like "insigne", such as "insigne stellare Taciti", "the starry badge of Tacitus".  If you want to maintain the reference to a barn, you should probably use an adjectival form.  I would suggest "stella horrealis Taciti", "the barnen star of Tacitius", but neither the Latin nor the English form of that word is attested!! MonteGargano (talk) 03:54, 8 June 2018 (UTC)


 * Thanks! I chose "Horreorum" based on two examples: Hirundo Horreorum, the archaic name for barn swallow and lex horreorum, which applied to Rome's granaries and warehouses.  Both use the nom. singular and the gen. plural. I am eager to improve my near-nonexistent Latin skills. Despite understanding the concepts,I struggle with their application. Informata ob Iniquitatum (talk) 04:23, 8 June 2018 (UTC)


 * Taxonomic names are a tricky business. In the first example you cited, the implication is "swallows who live in barns".  In other cases, it seems that gender and number are messed up in citations; the writers don't know Latin, and they don't check their sources, and they end up with grammatical travesties.  I did find what I think is a taxonomic example of "horrealis", the fungus moth Ateliotum horrealis [sic] (which should be Ateliotum horreale), i.e. a barn moth.  But this would be a word from the dreaded "Victorian Latin", so caveat lector. MonteGargano (talk) 05:16, 8 June 2018 (UTC)

Another Latin question
Salve amice,

Aiutum! I am struggling with the difference between evocare and devocare, evoco and devoco. I understand evoco to mean to summon, or lure. An evocatio was a ritual designed to "distract" a city's gods by a besieging army. But I find in Pliny's Natural Histories XXVIII ch.4, devocare is used for summoning Jupiter. Are the two interchangeable?

Evocatus is a veteran heeding the call to return to duty. So what would a devocatus be?

If you can help, awesome, don't feel obliged to respond if you can't :-) Informata ob Iniquitatum (talk) 04:44, 11 July 2018 (UTC)


 * This is the kind of question that explains why I put Latin-4 and not Latin-5 on my User page! However, I have a favorite source for Latin synonyms, from the early 19th century: Synonymes latins, by Jean Baptiste Gardin-Dumesnil.  There’s an English translation by the Rev. J.M. Gosset, and there are plenty of copies online.  M. Gardin-Dumesnil lists “devocare” and “evocare” as synonyms, although he translates them with the nuances that you mention.  I also came across another old book online, Thesaurus Linguae Latinae Compendiarius, Or, a Compendious Dictionary of the Latin tongue, compiled by Robert Ainsworth.   Under the word “devocatio”, he includes “evocatio” with his dagger mark for BAD LATIN, despite it being from Pliny.  He does the same for devitabilis/evitabilis.


 * Unfortunately, I have no answer to the question, only a few things to consider. MonteGargano (talk) 02:28, 10 August 2018 (UTC)

Can you translate Latin to English?
Hello, I am in need of translation of small texts from mid-1700s Latin to English. Is this something you are able to do, and if so, would you be willing? Eewilson (talk) 02:52, 28 November 2021 (UTC)


 * I don't have time to take on any new projects. Sorry about that. MonteGargano (talk) 16:31, 28 November 2021 (UTC)

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