User talk:Montgomery28

Jamaica
Thought you might find this interesting. I came across it while working on the lists for the World Women Contest. SusunW (talk) 13:58, 26 October 2017 (UTC)

Re: Louise Saunders
I see you made a recent addition to the article at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louise_Saunders. If you authored that article or know who did, may I suggest monitoring the Talk page for same. Cliffewiki (talk) 14:08, 17 November 2017 (UTC)

Trinidad María Enríquez
Not sure how or if she should be listed on your first women lawyers. She was the first to graduate with a degree in Peru, but not allowed to be licensed or practice. SusunW (talk) 19:08, 19 November 2017 (UTC)

Lists of first women lawyers and judges
Thanks very much for creating these six well prepared lists with extensive references: List of first women lawyers and judges in Asia, List of first women lawyers and judges in Africa, List of first women lawyers and judges in South America, List of first women lawyers and judges in North America, List of first women lawyers and judges in Europe and List of first women lawyers and judges in Australia and Oceania. It looks to me as if many of the individuals listed probably deserve biographies. I'll bring the lists to the attention of WP:Women in Red.--Ipigott (talk) 07:29, 29 May 2018 (UTC)

Ways to improve List of first women lawyers and judges in Illinois
Hi, I'm Onel5969. Montgomery28, thanks for creating List of first women lawyers and judges in Illinois!

I've just tagged the page, using our page curation tools, as having some issues to fix. Please ensure that you are getting the correct citation from the page you are copying from. In addition, you should provide an attribution in the edit summary showing which page you are copy pasting from.

The tags can be removed by you or another editor once the issues they mention are addressed. If you have questions, you can leave a comment on my talk page. Or, for more editing help, talk to the volunteers at the Teahouse.

 Onel 5969  TT me 21:21, 29 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Further to this, since the information appears to have been split from this article, you must provide attribution. This can be done on the article's talk page using split article, which is placed at the top of the page. If you have any questions about adding attribution, feel free to ping me. Cheers, Primefac (talk) 13:01, 30 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Hi Onel5969. I apologize for my delay in getting in touch with you. I am glad to read that you find the lists to be well prepared. I viewed your exchanges regarding the List of first women lawyers and judges in the United States. As you're probably aware, I have split the content into separate pages for each state, the federal district, and the territories to make any revision efforts less cumbersome. I made sure to follow any recommendations that you made for each page regarding the citations and categories (as well as providing attribution whenever possible). The new pages are formatted differently, as SEMMENDINGER made the great suggestion of foregoing the table design. I hope WP:Women in Red will be able to generate biographies for the female lawyers and judges shown on the lists. Thank you so much for all of your guidance! Montgomery28 (talk) 03:24, 31 May 2018 (UTC)


 * Thank you, Montgomery, for developing some 60 lists of first women lawyers and judges throughout the world and for working on further improvements. I am simply amazed at the tremendous amount of useful work you have been able to achieve in such a short time. I have already brought your work to the attention of Women in Red. Your lists could serve as a basis for the development of articles related to women lawyers if we manage to include lawyers as an editathon focus in one of the coming months. The articles First women lawyers and judges in Louisiana and First women lawyers and judges in Maine should probably be redirected to List of first women lawyers and judges in Louisiana and List of first women lawyers and judges in Maine. I see virtually all your lists are currently in Category:Lists of women by occupation and nationality. It might be useful to create a new subcategory Category:Lists of first American women lawyers and judges or Category:Lists of American women lawyers under Category:Lists of American women as the US states cannot really be covered by nationality. Our category expert might like to advise on this before we go ahead.


 * It would be good to have you as a member of Women in Red. You can join by clicking on "Join WikiProject" in the box at the top of the Women in Red page. (cc )--Ipigott (talk) 10:46, 1 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Eesh, sorry, meant to look this over yesterday but lost it in the shuffle of the day. Let me take a look sometime today/tomorrow at the category tree and see what I can come up with. -- Ser Amantio di Nicolao Che dicono a Signa?Lo dicono a Signa. 15:21, 1 June 2018 (UTC)


 * Just wanted to let you know, Montgomery, that it is highly probable Women in Red will be focusing on lawyers in September.--Ipigott (talk) 07:19, 2 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Thanks for all your work in this area. Highly appreciated! I'm looking forward to working on articles related to women in law. Also adding as she's our guru for redlists. --Rosiestep (talk) 08:50, 2 June 2018 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for June 1
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A page you started (List of first minority male lawyers and judges in North Carolina) has been reviewed!
Thanks for creating List of first minority male lawyers and judges in North Carolina, Montgomery28!

Wikipedia editor Winner 42 just reviewed your page, and wrote this note for you:

"Thank you for your article, please remember to add the Template:Split article to the talk page later, thanks."

To reply, leave a comment on Winner 42's talk page.

Learn more about page curation.

Winner 42 Talk to me!  17:51, 8 June 2018 (UTC)

Thanks for your guidance, Winner 42. I made sure to add the template that you specified to the talk page for each new page created. Montgomery28 (talk) 19:42, 8 June 2018 (UTC)


 * It looks like you've misunderstood what was requested. Adding the bare text
 * Template:Split article
 * wasn't what was intended. It does nothing. split article is a template which links the new article to the old article to preserve the attribution that the previous contributors are entitled to. split article needs some parameters to make it work correctly. In this case, because you were copying from the one article, it's possible to use a little wiki magic so that the same text can be used on each talk page. It's also good practice to add the relevant projects to the talk page. I used the text in the following box on your Alabama page, and it'll work on all of them...


 * Hope that helps, Cabayi (talk) 21:10, 8 June 2018 (UTC)

Thank you very much for the clarification. I've gone through the pages and made sure to include the box above. I'm still trying to get the hang of most of the "Talk Page" functions and your guidance is much appreciated! Montgomery28 (talk) 22:35, 8 June 2018 (UTC)
 * You're welcome. I'm glad I could help. Cabayi (talk) 05:45, 9 June 2018 (UTC)

Ways to improve List of Ministers of Justice and Law (Columbia)
Hi, I'm Boleyn. Montgomery28, thanks for creating List of Ministers of Justice and Law (Columbia)!

I've just tagged the page, using our page curation tools, as having some issues to fix. Please add your references.

The tags can be removed by you or another editor once the issues they mention are addressed. If you have questions, you can leave a comment on my talk page. Or, for more editing help, talk to the volunteers at the Teahouse.

Boleyn (talk) 19:52, 26 June 2018 (UTC)

Linking to other wikipedias
Hallo, I've just created an article for Bakolalao Ramanandraibe Ranaivoharivony and have linked her from Minister of Justice (Madagascar) - but I nearly missed this out as she was already showing as a blue link, which led to the (totally unsourced) French article. I see that you added that link.

There's a better way to link to a foreign-language wikipedia: use ill for "interlanguage link". The code is  (missing out the second title if they are identical), which produces a red link with a little blue link beside it to the French (etc) article. When the en-wiki article is created, it automatically updates (I understand) to become just a plain blue link. So until then we can see that there isn't yet an English wp article, but we are offered a helpful link to the French one, if we can read enough French to choose to follow it.

There is a huge amount to learn about editing Wikipedia and I keep finding new quirks myself. Happy Editing, and thanks for all your work on the encyclopedia! Pam D  15:08, 2 August 2018 (UTC)

Perfect. Thank you so much for your guidance, PamD! The coding that you provided to me will be invaluable for any future editing efforts. Montgomery28 (talk) 16:11, 2 August 2018 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Dyllón Burnside


A tag has been placed on Dyllón Burnside, requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section G11 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the page seems to be unambiguous advertising which only promotes a company, group, product, service, person, or point of view and would need to be fundamentally rewritten in order to become encyclopedic. Please read the guidelines on spam and FAQ/Organizations for more information.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason, you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. However, be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself, but do not hesitate to add information in line with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. If the page is deleted, and you wish to retrieve the deleted material for future reference or improvement, then please contact the. power~enwiki ( π, ν ) 19:54, 16 August 2018 (UTC)

Hi Power~enwiki: Thank you for getting in touch with me. I pleaded my case and respect the ultimate decision to delete the page in question. It is my hope that someone will create a page about the subject matter that better corresponds with Wikipedia's guidelines. Montgomery28 (talk) 22:38, 16 August 2018 (UTC)

Unspecified source/license for File:Liliana del Carmen Estefan at 2014 MIFF.jpg
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References and BLPs
Hi Montgomery28. A belated welcome to Wikipedia. I'm sorry no one welcomed you properly when you first began editing. I've added a welcome message to the top of this page that gives a great deal of information about Wikipedia. I hope you find it useful.

I regularly search Wikipedia for use of unreliable sources that get by the bots that normally take care of them. I came across your recent editing at Gloria Estefan through such a search, and without reviewing your edits in detail, saw that you used multiple unreliable sources (ethnicelebs.com, medium.com, ancestry.com - I stopped looking at that point). I went ahead and reverted the edit completely.

Working on biographical information about living persons is difficult. Wikipedia's Biographies of living persons policy requires strict adherence to multiple content policies, and applies to all information about living persons including talk pages. Sources must be high-quality, and editors are encouraged to remove unsourced and poorly sourced information without waiting for discussion.

It would greatly help if you worked in smaller increments, introducing or changing only a few sources at a time, and only one or two paragraphs at a time. If you had done so, I would have been able to easily weed out the poor sources and do some quick salvaging, as I normally do. I'm happy to work with you to salvage the edit, clarify my perspective on all of this, review any sources, and review more of your edits.

I see you have worked on the edit in the time I wrote this. It looks far, far better. Please remove the ancestry.com ref. It would help to add quotes within the references for the National Archives of Atlanta sources. Thank you. --Ronz (talk) 17:05, 11 October 2018 (UTC)

Attorney general
Hello, I noticed that you have deleted the content of almost all of the sub-sections of the "Attorney general" article and put some of them into the relevant main articles. While it is often a matter of editorial judgment as to how long or short the summary should be, the "WP:Summary style" does not generally mean deleting all content from each sub-section. Some of the sub-section is indeed too long, and if you would like to help trim those down to the right length, that would be appreciated. But it is not encyclopaedic to just have a bunch of subheadings and links. --165.225.80.244 (talk) 17:36, 3 December 2018 (UTC)

Hello 165.225.80.244. I had thought that my changes were in keeping with typical editing operations, as I have had others make similar changes to pages that I have created or done work on. If you feel that the elimination of some of the “Attorney General” page’s contents make it less encyclopedic, I trust your judgment and I am open to you restoring any subheading data as you see fit. Thank you for getting in touch with me. Montgomery28 (talk) 19:20, 3 December 2018 (UTC)

Maps and flags on lists
Hi Montgomery, I see you reverted my edit on the List of first women lawyers and judges in Asia. While I really appreciate all the work you have done on these lists, I personally think this is unnecessary and excessive details. If you look at all the other lists in similar categories, none of them include a map of the continent at the top, nor do they include flags for the countries listed. These things can very easily be found by people clicking on the link to the relevant page such as Asia or Bangladesh. I would suggest removing them from all such articles you have added them to. Thanks Melcous (talk) 06:11, 1 February 2019 (UTC)

Hi Melcous: To reiterate my comment, I had added the maps to serve as a visual aid for researchers. I do realize that you can find maps on Wikipedia. However, it can be a cumbersome process to find one that is straightforward enough to mitigate the researching process. As for the flags, there was another Wikipedia user that had started adding them, and I completed the additions for the other lists in order to honor their contributions.

I do respect your suggestions, though, and I have removed the flags. Additionally, I have eliminated the maps and instead added map-related hyperlinks to the opening paragraphs for each list. Although it takes away from the ease of research that I had originally intended, I wanted researchers to still have a map option available to them in some manner. Although this detail was not mentioned in your comment, I kept any photo content intact—as I felt that those additions humanized any of the women listed.

I plan to turn my attention towards the U.S. lists for women and minority male lawyers and judges soon. They currently are formatted like the prior versions of the international lists. I hope to find a workable solution for the existing map portions, as I am repeatedly reminded that American research can be just as daunting as international research. It certainly doesn’t help that several states have the same county names. Thank you very much for getting in touch with me. Montgomery28 (talk) 08:17, 1 February 2019 (UTC)


 * Hi Montgomery, I think it is worth reaching some consensus on the purpose and scope of these lists before moving forward with them. You speak of serving as an aid to researchers, but I would suggest that that is not the primary purpose of wikipedia and perhaps indicates that what you are looking to do is a project that belongs somewhere else rather than here.
 * I note that has removed similar content to that which I did from List of first women lawyers and judges in Asia. You don't see the problem with having the first woman, who happened to be a lawyer, to become a vice president or a particular minister in the government? You even had women who were not lawyers but the first to take one those roles. This just muddies the scope of the article and makes the list both unwieldy and unhelpful. Political roles are a separate thing, and there are already other lists of first women ministers and heads of state etc.
 * I also think adding entries like 'first blind female' or 'first female of X ethnicity' is unhelpful as that then makes it a list that could continue ad infinitum with various combinations of attributes. Personally, I think the list should be very clearly defined to (as per the title) the first female lawyer and the first female judge in each country. I understand that perhaps the first female law graduate who was not allowed to practice might also be a useful contribution, and/or the first at various levels of the judiciary, but even then I think there needs to be clearer criteria than currently seems to be being applied. Thank you Melcous (talk) 07:03, 3 February 2019 (UTC)

Hi Melcous: Please refer to the "Talk" page for "List of first women lawyers and judges in Asia." I offer explanations as to why certain entries were added to the page. I have seen the edits by but have not reverted any of them at this time. Thank you for your time. Montgomery28 (talk) 07:28, 3 February 2019 (UTC)

Mirrors
Thanks for contributing to the article List of the first women holders of political offices in Europe ‎. However, one of Wikipedia's core policies is that material must be verifiable and attributed to reliable sources. You have recently used citations which copied, or mirrored, material from Wikipedia. This leads to a circular reference and is not acceptable. Most mirrors are clearly labeled as such, but some are in violation of our license and do not provide the correct attribution. Please help by adding alternate sources to the article you edited! If you need any help or clarification, you can look at Help:Contents/Editing Wikipedia or ask at New contributors' help page, or just ask me. Thank you. Kuru  (talk)  12:40, 14 February 2019 (UTC)

I have sent you a note about a page you started
Thanks for creating Sarah Shields.

User:Kudpung while examining this page as a part of our page curation process had the following comments:

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Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 01:59, 24 August 2019 (UTC)

Hi User:Kudpung: I've added some biographical details. Hopefully, the new content will work. Thank you. Montgomery28 (talk) 04:06, 24 August 2019 (UTC)

Jennie Mitchell Kellogg
Thank you for writing a new, interesting article about Kansas history. I would offer one comment; try rewriting the article without parenthetical expressions. The information could be conveyed much better without the use of parentheses. Keep up the good work. Cuprum17 (talk) 17:51, 24 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Thank you so much for the suggestion, Cuprum17. I have since revised the page to eliminate the parenthetical expressions. Montgomery28 (talk) 18:42, 24 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Reads much better, thank you! Cuprum17 (talk) 19:17, 24 August 2019 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Elizabeth K. Ohi


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Copyright problem: Chiyoko Sakamoto
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Hi Diannaa: I am Jonathan Watson, the author of "Legacy of American Female Lawyers". In 2018, I mentioned my Wikipedia-related work at http://solanolibrary.com/Home/BlogPost/5/16589. I admit that I could have done a better job constructing the pages for Elizabeth K. Ohi and Chiyoko Sakamoto, as in hindsight the content could have been differently arranged. Plus, I should have taken the opportunity to conduct further research in order to uncover any new details. I have recently created pages for the California historical figures Mary Virginia Orozco, Emma Ping Lum and Abby Abinanti, and I hope that they are in better keeping with Wikipedia's guidelines. Please let me know if there is anything that I can improve on regarding future contributions. Montgomery28 (talk) 23:21, 24 August 2019 (UTC)

I have sent you a note about a page you started
Thanks for creating Marion Griffin (American lawyer).

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I have sent you a note about a page you started
Thanks for creating Denise Goupil.

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 Onel 5969  TT me 20:48, 27 August 2019 (UTC)

Mahram
Hello I came across your article List of first women lawyers and judges in Europe; that's a lot of work! I notice you made this edit in January, adding Fatima Arslan, First female lawyer under the Mahram in the Netherlands. What did you mean by that? AFAIK Mahram is an Islamic law on marriage prohibitions; how is it relevant to a lawyer in the Netherlands? Moonraker12 (talk) 20:52, 31 August 2019 (UTC)

I rechecked any data about her, and it turns out that she’s the first Netherlands female lawyer to wear a hijab. I’ve updated her entry. Thank you so much for contacting me. I don’t think I can sign with this mobile device, so will update in the future. Montgomery28 (talk) 06:15, 1 September 2019 (UTC)

Signature went through. Thanks again! Montgomery28 (talk) 06:16, 1 September 2019 (UTC)

Signature went through. Thanks again! Montgomery28 (talk) 06:16, 1 September 2019 (UTC)


 * Ahh! That make more sense... I'm guessing that Mahram is the part of Islamic law which governs coverings like the hijab (it deals with purdah, as well as marriage prohibition, so it's all of a piece). Anyway, thanks for replying: Regards, Moonraker12 (talk) 21:57, 3 September 2019 (UTC)

Cut-and-paste moves
Please do not make cut-and-paste moves of content from draft space to mainspace. This breaks edit history, and is a violation of Wikipedia's terms of use. Please make your edits in the existing draft, and then request that they be moved to mainspace. bd2412 T 13:48, 22 September 2019 (UTC)

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 * added a link pointing to Edwin Torres

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Please stop marking your edits as minor when they do not meet the criteria
Thank you for your contributions. Please mark your edits as "minor" only if they are minor edits. In accordance with Help:Minor edit, a minor edit is one that the editor believes requires no review and could never be the subject of a dispute. Minor edits consist of things such as typographical corrections, formatting changes or rearrangement of text without modification of content. Additionally, the reversion of clear-cut vandalism and test edits may be labeled "minor". Thank you. Melcous (talk) 11:02, 28 March 2020 (UTC)

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Cabinet of Kiribati
May I thank you for your creation of Ministry of Justice (Kiribati), 2 years ago ? Since I have created all the ministries of the Cabinet of Kiribati but the one of the Office of the Attorney General (Kiribati). I am writing here for any help to improve my stubs. Regards.-Arorae (talk) 06:56, 2 August 2020 (UTC)

Hi Arorae: Sorry for my delay in responding to you. I wonder if you might be able to gather enough sources for Office of the Attorney General (Kiribati) by visiting http://www.legal.gov.ki/. If you click on the "PacLII" link, you can access materials such as the Constitution of Kiribati. The constitution includes a section that mentions the establishment of office of the attorney-general. Maybe you can use it as a starting point for your page? Good luck to you! Montgomery28 (talk) 05:46, 4 March 2021 (UTC)


 * Thanks but I created some years ago Constitution of Kiribati, and there is not enough secondary material on PacLII… Arorae (talk) 14:36, 6 March 2021 (UTC)

Ministry of Justice (Ghana)
Hello Montgomery28, I made some edits on a page you created; Ministry of Justice (Ghana). After creating the history of the ministry and listing the ministers that headed the Ministry, I was wondering if the list could include the list of Attorney General of Ghana (from Bashiru Kwaw-Swanzy onwards) since both ministries were merged from 1965 onwards when Bashiru Kwaw-Swanzy was Attorney General.

I wanted to seek your opinion on this because you created the page.

Have a lovely day and kind regards.

Hello Kinvidia:

The additions that you made really provides a great insight into the office's history. I think you have a great idea of including the list of attorneys general. I wish you well and I look forward to seeing the future ways that you enhance the page. I hope you have a lovely day too. With regard, Montgomery28 (talk) 05:25, 4 March 2021 (UTC)

Thank you for your thoughts Montgomery28. Kinvidia (talk) 17:58, 4 March 2021 (UTC)

LGBT people
Please note that itself is meant to be empty of individual articles; rather, all LGBT people are supposed to be filed in one or more subcategories based on nationality and/or occupation. For example, the correct category for Lauren Rowles is not, but.

Note that not every occupation that LGBT people might do necessarily always has an "LGBT occupation" category, and even the ones that do have occupational categories don't necessarily always have "occupation-from-Country" subcategories, so it might sometimes be necessary to just categorize a person as "LGBT people from [Country]". But you should still find and use the most appropriate available subcategories instead of just filing a person directly in. Thanks. Bearcat (talk) 14:53, 30 June 2021 (UTC)

Thank you for your guidance! Montgomery28 (talk) 22:38, 19 July 2021 (UTC)

Additions to the List of gay, lesbian or bisexual people by section
Hi Montgomery28,

Thank you for your tireless efforts to the sections of the List of gay, lesbian or bisexual people. It's much appreciated. However, I would like to make some suggestions about the entries. Several years ago, the pages were a complete mess and it took several editors a lot of time cleaning them up. Could you please follow the already established conventions for new additions? An example would be:


 * spaceJohn Doe
 * space1940–2007 (En dash, not a hyphen)
 * spaceAmerican
 * spaceComposer, conductor, pianist (devoid of an "and" and no linking of common words)
 * spaceG (reference)

Also, please no additions that do not have stand-alone articles, as an already established guideline. It makes things much easier and is more cohesive. Thank you, and thank you again for all of your hard work! Cheers! ExRat (talk) 16:51, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

Thank you so much for your guidance! Montgomery28 (talk) 22:39, 19 July 2021 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for July 21
An automated process has detected that when you recently edited List of first women lawyers and judges in Asia, you added links pointing to the disambiguation pages Palestine and Islamic court.

(Opt-out instructions.) --DPL bot (talk) 06:00, 21 July 2021 (UTC)

Notability issues
Hi Montgomery, I would like to start another discussion about the amount of people you continue to add to the lists of the "List of first women lawyers and judges" articles. The large majority of people you are adding (e.g. firsts in a particular region) are not notable and have no wikipedia articles to link to (nor should they). All this appears to do is clutter the lists and make them less readable and less useful. Can you please explain what guidelines you are using to add people and why you think they should be included? I am personally very tempted to simply remove many of them, however I realise you are obviously putting a lot of time into this. Do you have any consensus from any other editors that this is a good idea? Thank you Melcous (talk) 10:52, 21 September 2021 (UTC)

Hi Melcous: Thank you for reaching out to me. I am fine with whatever is needed to keep the lists readable and handy, so please feel free to edit the pages as you see fit. Montgomery28 (talk) 21:36, 21 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Okay, thank you. Melcous (talk) 22:47, 24 September 2021 (UTC)

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Rename?
Hi there, are you amenable to renaming List of Hispanic/Latino American jurists to List of Hispanic and Latino American jurists? It seems a better fit compared to similar articles (e.g., List of Hispanic and Latino Americans, Hispanic and Latino Americans), but I know there's nuance there.

I'm also wondering about how, if at all, to represent Benjamin N. Cardozo there. Maybe a See also? --BDD (talk) 16:07, 5 April 2023 (UTC)


 * Hello @BDD . I am amenable to renaming the list. Regarding Benjamin Cardozo, I think your idea of placing him under "See also" might be best. His ethnicity has been analyzed by various scholars, and some might consider his addition under the Latino category as questionable. Thanks for reaching out! ~ Montgomery28 (talk) 16:46, 5 April 2023 (UTC)

Emma Ping Lum
When you created Emma Ping Lum, it included that she was a member of Kappa Beta Phi legal sorority. I have not been able to read either of the sources for that sentence. (which are still there as references). I noted that Kappa Beta Phi is sort of a joke honorary, but Kappa Beta Pi is a legal sorority. It may be that she belonged to a local sorority, with the Phi name. Could you help sort this out? Thank you.Naraht (talk) 13:49, 11 July 2023 (UTC)


 * Hello Naraht: According to the book History of the Greater San Francisco Bay Region, Volume 3 (Lawrence Kinnaird, 1966), "EMMA PING LUM of San Francisco is the first woman of Chinese ancestry to...Miss Lum is a member of the California State Bar Association, San Francisco Bar Association, the Queen's Bench, and Kappa Beta Phi legal sorority..." The portion that I quoted can be seen in a screenshot under Google Books. I was looking for comparative data, and it appears that Harriet A. Haas was another California attorney that was a member of the Kappa Beta Phi legal sorority. I see what you mean regarding the linked page to Kappa Beta Phi, and there is an organization known as Kappa Beta Pi that is identified as law-oriented on its page. I'm not sure then if the legal sorority that Lum and Haas belonged to underwent a name change in the decades to follow? Maybe it was eventually changed to Kappa Beta Pi to distinguish it from Kappa Beta Phi, as supposedly higher institutions around the U.S. tried to abolish the latter from being organized by students. I hope this might help. Montgomery28 (talk) 16:06, 11 July 2023 (UTC)
 * I wasn't able to get the correct area of the google books page to verify, so I asked... (that can get tricky, I've literally referenced hundreds of things to google books new enough that all you see is clips.) I think the next step would be to see if yearbooks for her Law School could be gotten. Sorry if this comes off as doubting you, I think we agree that Kappa Beta Pi seems to fit better.Naraht (talk) 17:14, 11 July 2023 (UTC)

Nomination of Mary Gloria Lawson for deletion
A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Mary Gloria Lawson is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Articles for deletion/Mary Gloria Lawson until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article until the discussion has finished. Let&#39;srun (talk) 14:35, 20 July 2023 (UTC)

Dear Let&#39;srun: Thank you for reaching out to me. I cannot be certain, but I believe I might've created the page as part of the WikiProject Women in Red. If there is the possibility that expanding the page's scope and data might enable it to meet Wikipedia's requirements, I would be more than happy to undertake that process. I think having Wikipedia pages devoted to state historical figures that are often overlooked might be beneficial to underrepresented populations, especially given the ongoing political and cultural climates in the United States regarding history. However, that is just my perspective, and am open to whatever decision is made in this evaluation process. Thank you again for contacting me! Montgomery28 (talk) 17:54, 20 July 2023 (UTC)


 * As I wrote, my WP:BEFORE check came up empty regarding secondary sources, save for a brief AP article written at the time of her death (and even that is really too short) needed to fulfill the general notability guidelines. If you can find sources I couldn't, however, I'd be happy to withdraw the Afd. Let&#39;srun (talk) 18:54, 20 July 2023 (UTC)

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