User talk:Montigliani

Welcome!
Hi Montigliani! I noticed your contributions and wanted to welcome you to the Wikipedia community. I hope you like it here and decide to stay.

As you get started, you may find this short tutorial helpful:

Alternatively, the contributing to Wikipedia page covers the same topics.

If you have any questions, we have a friendly space where experienced editors can help you here:

If you are not sure where to help out, you can find a task here:

Happy editing! WikiDan61 ChatMe!ReadMe!! 18:24, 15 December 2023 (UTC)

Removal of cited material at Super League Greece
In this edit to Super League Greece, your edit summary said: ''Removal of vandalism. These additions are based on unreliable fan forums and no relationship with the Greek Championship over time. I haven't evaluated all of the sources, but a quick glance shows that the sources included the BBC, The Guardian, SKY Sports, The International Journal of Sports Policy and Politics'' and others. These are not gossip-mongering fan forums, but legitimate, respected news outlets and scholarly journals. If you dispute the facts cited, please discuss the matter at the relevant talk page. WikiDan61 ChatMe!ReadMe!! 18:24, 15 December 2023 (UTC)


 * I already wrote on the talk page. The other user has not replied and will not reply. I'm sorry you believed a user who just signed up today and just wants to slander a certain group and their president. See her edits https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/78.147.205.219 . It's his. I'm sorry but please know that you are dealing with a User:NikolaosFanaris puppet user who has been banned from the Greek wikipedia. Montigliani (talk) 22:07, 15 December 2023 (UTC)

December 2023
Hi Montigliani! I noticed that you have reverted to restore your preferred version of Super League Greece several times. The impulse to undo an edit you disagree with is understandable, but I wanted to make sure you're aware that the edit warring policy disallows repeated reversions even if they are justifiable.

All editors are expected to discuss content disputes on article talk pages to try to reach consensus. If you are unable to agree&#32;at, please use one of the dispute resolution options to seek input from others. Using this approach instead of reverting can help you avoid getting drawn into an edit war. Thank you. ~ ToBeFree (talk) 19:55, 15 December 2023 (UTC)


 * I already wrote on the talk page. The other user has not replied and will not reply. I'm sorry you believed a user who just signed up today and just wants to slander a certain group and their president. See her edits https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/78.147.205.219 . It's his. You shouldn't have locked the article so easily. I'm sorry but please know that you are dealing with a User:NikolaosFanaris puppet user who has been banned from the Greek wikipedia. Montigliani (talk) 22:11, 15 December 2023 (UTC)
 * If you suspect sockpuppetry, please create a report at WP:SPI. On the article's talk page, please focus on the article content. ~ ToBeFree (talk) 00:33, 16 December 2023 (UTC)
 * I would ask you to remove the other user's edits first. You can't have a discussion like that. His additions are malicious and do not exist in any similar league article. Not even in Italian. As for the complaint you suggest I make, I don't think it suits my character. I am a man of dialogue and democracy and not a fascist. Montigliani (talk) 08:40, 16 December 2023 (UTC)
 * This doesn't align with the usual process. If you have particular points of disagreement, I encourage you to address them directly on the talk page. Currently, it seems like you're not putting forth any concrete proposals. It's also worth mentioning the intent behind your account. Your involvement came after the edits had already been made, seemingly aimed at removing cited text. This action followed your accusation of my supposed bias or animosity towards a specific individual associated with Olympiakos. Can you clarify if you have a direct affiliation with the football club? Dynasty Power (talk) 13:10, 16 December 2023 (UTC)
 * I have (already) removed discussion comments from both sides of this dispute because personal remarks are unsuitable for article talk pages. Similarly, the question above about a "direct affiliation" can sometimes be reasonable but seems quite unnecessary in the current situation. The first step should be identifying which content issues you disagree about and which arguments unrelated to the other editor's personality might be for or against your proposed changes. ~ ToBeFree (talk) 13:43, 16 December 2023 (UTC)
 * I will be clear. Firstly his additions have no place in the league article. Let's make another article about them. And to speak and who supports them. Secondly, I have nothing to do with any group (answer to his question Dynasty power) Montigliani (talk) 13:50, 16 December 2023 (UTC)

 You have been blocked from editing from certain namespaces ((Article)) for a period of 2 weeks for edit warring. Once the block has expired, you are welcome to make useful contributions. During a dispute, you should first try to discuss controversial changes and seek consensus. If that proves unsuccessful, you are encouraged to seek dispute resolution, and in some cases it may be appropriate to request page protection. If you think there are good reasons for being unblocked, please review Wikipedia's guide to appealing blocks, then add the following text to the bottom of your talk page:. ~ ToBeFree (talk) 18:21, 16 December 2023 (UTC)

Please read this carefully: The block does not prevent you from creating a report at WP:SPI, and in case that report leads to being blocked as a sockpuppet, I'll immediately unblock your account. ~ ToBeFree (talk) 18:22, 16 December 2023 (UTC)


 * I admit I deserved the punishment. He has crossed the line. As for the puppet report, I don't know how to go about it. I would like you to do it for me.
 * I would also ask you to see the entry of the Greek championship. No one has ever done a scandal section before. Of course they exist, but he limits it to the years when Olympiacos dominates. And the other big groups have been accused and punished. Olympiacos never. Anyway, this article is about the teams' entries and achievements. There are entries for the various scandals. Something else. In ENGLAND the control is very strict for team presidents. Would they have let V. Marinakis take charge of Nottingham Forest if he had done all the things that the "yellow journalism" accuses him of? Montigliani (talk) 19:01, 16 December 2023 (UTC)
 * WP:SPI contains a box labeled "How to open an investigation:" with a "show" link at the right that opens it. It may take some time to read the instructions provided on the page, but two weeks should be sufficient to produce an investigation that contains convincing evidence of sockpuppetry. I'll neither make a content decision about the Greek championship nor create the SPI for you; it's you who maintains these accusations and you who needs to prove them in the correct venue. ~ ToBeFree (talk) 21:00, 16 December 2023 (UTC)
 * No. I will not do anything. I don't like anyone being punished because of me. I just want justice. You made a wrong decision, you should correct the article. Just reset the user version Abudabanas https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Super_League_Greece&diff=1190073197&oldid=1188262435 . Nothing has changed since December 4, 2023, except for the scandals added by ip 78.147.205.219 (16:52, 10 December 2023‎ 78.147.205.219  talk‎  68,802 bytes +8,340‎  Long overdue section needed for corruption in Greek football) before deciding to make an account Dynasty Power. Montigliani (talk) 22:23, 16 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Creating an account and stopping to make IP edits is fine; you'd need to provide evidence of this being or any other blocked user. If this is actually sockpuppetry, it can be reverted. ~ ToBeFree (talk) 22:30, 16 December 2023 (UTC)
 * But it's obvious it's him. Just look at his edits https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/NikolaosFanaris, especially in his article Evangelos Marinakis. Montigliani (talk) 23:07, 16 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Further accusations of sockpuppetry without evidence, especially when made on article talk pages, are not acceptable (WP:ASPERSIONS; focus on content) and may lead to an extension of the block, possibly without further warning. The only reason your block is limited to the article namespace is that I had hoped for you to create a sockpuppetry investigation at WP:SPI. You can still do so, with the required evidence – preferably in form of diff links, and certainly not just by linking to a full contribution list. ~ ToBeFree (talk) 18:21, 17 December 2023 (UTC)
 * You saw how he talks. With all due respect to you, you have made a tragic mistake that is growing. This man is very bad. I suggest you restore the entry of the Greek championship as it was before and I will not bother you again. Marinaki's entry does not interest me at all. Montigliani (talk) 18:28, 17 December 2023 (UTC)

Context / discussions archived
Hi ,

Thank you very much for your kind feedback. It's been quite a journey; I have archived it to now, so that the entire context and discussion history is in one place.

All the best! ~ ToBeFree (talk) 13:38, 24 December 2023 (UTC)


 * Thank you for everything. Merry Christmas! Montigliani (talk) 15:01, 24 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Merry Christmas to you too! Emoji_u1f60a.svg Noto_Emoji_v2.034_1f384.svg ~ ToBeFree (talk) 00:15, 25 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you very much. Please keep your eyes on him https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/Robust991 It's probably a new puppet of his Dynasty Power. Montigliani (talk) 07:58, 25 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you for the notification. Blocked and investigation created at . ~ ToBeFree (talk) 15:01, 25 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Good morning dear friend. I wish you and your loved ones a happy new year. The familiar puppet struck again https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Evangelos_Marinakis&diff=1192817739&oldid=1191650599.  He has a new name now, one of the protagonists of the shadow theater https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/Chatzidiavatis, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Chatzidiavatis. I don't think it will ever stop unfortunately. Montigliani (talk) 09:15, 2 January 2024 (UTC)
 * To you and yours too, thanks! The new sockpuppet is now blocked; please report these at Sockpuppet investigations/NikolaosFanaris when you see them. I have now extended-confirmed protected the page to prevent it from happening again on the same page. ~ ToBeFree (talk) 16:27, 2 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Thank you very much. Montigliani (talk) 18:21, 2 January 2024 (UTC)

March 2024
Please stop your disruptive editing. If you continue to disrupt Wikipedia, as you did at Super League Greece, you may be blocked from editing. Ad Orientem (talk) 23:07, 22 March 2024 (UTC)
 * If you are engaged in an article content dispute with another editor, discuss the matter with the editor at their talk page, or the article's talk page, and seek consensus with them. Alternatively you can read Wikipedia's dispute resolution page, and ask for independent help at one of the relevant noticeboards.
 * If you are engaged in any other form of dispute that is not covered on the dispute resolution page, seek assistance at Wikipedia's Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents.


 * I answered you with evidence. Montigliani (talk) 23:19, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

Name changes of the Greek football championship are already mentioned in the article. I also added the establishment of the VAR that you keep adding. However, in the table of the champions, the Championship is divided in 3 sections. Panhellenic, National, Professional. If the name is Alpha Ethniki or Super League does not matter. It is already mentioned. No matter the name, since 1980 it is a professional league and the league format is the same. A national round-robin league tournament. Thank youAbudabanas (talk) 18:21, 3 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Dear friend your changes are not correct. I will focus on professional football. So there is another league without playoffs, another with playoffs for places 2-5 and another with playoffs for champion. You have made mistakes elsewhere. So I will undo you and forgive me Montigliani (talk) 10:42, 8 June 2024 (UTC)
 * There is not a simple mistake on the Championship through the years section of The Super League Greece article. The evolution of the Greek Championship is presented properly with all the name and format changes from 1927 to present. If you keep reverting with no reason, we can call an admin if you 'd like to solve this. Abudabanas (talk) 11:21, 9 June 2024 (UTC)
 * And yet you have made many mistakes. I will try to fix them in another way. Of course, if you persist again, we'll need to enlist the help of an administrator. Montigliani (talk) 08:03, 10 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Call an admin to solve this. There is no mistake. It is exactly how the Greek Championship evolved through the years. List of Greek champions presented from the most popular greek sports website gazzetta.gr here (see ). Three sections of the Greek Championship. I also included a brief description of the league format per period, change of names, use of VAR. Everything is correct. Call an administrator or write down here your objections. Thank you Abudabanas (talk) 08:52, 10 June 2024 (UTC)
 * I already made some changes and you can see them. If you disagree, do what you think is right. Montigliani (talk) 09:04, 10 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Thing is that the Greek Championship organised by the HFF from 1927 onwards is divided in 3 sections. Panhellenic, National, Professional. This is how it was presented in the HFF site and how gazzetta.gr wrote it down recently. If the name is Super League or SL 1 (I agree with you on pointing the use of VAR) or Alpha Ethniki is something that should be mentioned of course, however they are both part of what stands from 1979-80 onwards. A professional league. Format? A national round-robin tournament followed occasionally by playoffs/playouts (sometimes for 2-5, others for 1-6, others between 2 teams for the title or between 3 teams for European Qualification. We can't write down so many details about the differences year by year). Abudabanas (talk) 09:26, 10 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Perfect work must be detailed. Montigliani (talk) 09:30, 10 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Ok. If perfect work must be detailed, then maybe we should write down that in the first HFF Championship the top 3 teams did not participate and excluded. We need a whole book my friend. That is what a brief decsription does. Occasionally. That means sometimes. We had playoffs for some seasons. The number of teams participating and the ranking was different multiple times. Abudabanas (talk) 09:37, 10 June 2024 (UTC)
 * I will not continue the pointless correction war for today at least. Just think that the detail always makes the difference. Montigliani (talk) 09:38, 10 June 2024 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for June 20
Hi. Thank you for your recent edits. An automated process has detected that when you recently edited Super League Greece, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Champions League. Such links are usually incorrect, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of unrelated topics with similar titles. (Read the FAQ* Join us at the DPL WikiProject.)

It's OK to remove this message. Also, to stop receiving these messages, follow these opt-out instructions. Thanks, --DPL bot (talk) 18:24, 20 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Ok! Thanks for the update. Montigliani (talk) 09:20, 22 June 2024 (UTC)

June 2024
Please stop your disruptive editing in Super League Greece. Please refrain from disruptive edits and do not try to force your point of view against the consensus. Furthermore, you have already violated WP:3RR.

Your recent editing history shows that you are currently engaged in an edit war; that means that you are repeatedly changing content back to how you think it should be, when you have seen that other editors disagree. To resolve the content dispute, please do not revert or change the edits of others when you are reverted. Instead of reverting, please use the talk page to work toward making a version that represents consensus among editors. The best practice at this stage is to discuss, not edit-war; read about how this is done. If discussions reach an impasse, you can then post a request for help at a relevant noticeboard or seek dispute resolution. In some cases, you may wish to request temporary page protection.

Being involved in an edit war can result in you being blocked from editing&mdash;especially if you violate the three-revert rule, which states that an editor must not perform more than three reverts on a single page within a 24-hour period. Undoing another editor's work—whether in whole or in part, whether involving the same or different material each time—counts as a revert. Also keep in mind that while violating the three-revert rule often leads to a block, you can still be blocked for edit warring&mdash;even if you do not violate the three-revert rule&mdash;should your behavior indicate that you intend to continue reverting repeatedly.

Miria~01 (talk) 18:24, 22 June 2024 (UTC)


 * May I ask you something. Are you an administrator? Also what is your relationship with the other user? Because here there is a collaboration of 2 users to impose their wrong opinion. I know I've broken the three reset rule, so I'm stopping for today. Montigliani (talk) 18:41, 22 June 2024 (UTC)

 You have been blocked from editing for a period of 1 week for edit warring and violating the three-revert rule, as you did at Super League Greece. Once the block has expired, you are welcome to make useful contributions. During a dispute, you should first try to discuss controversial changes and seek consensus. If that proves unsuccessful, you are encouraged to seek dispute resolution, and in some cases it may be appropriate to request page protection. If you think there are good reasons for being unblocked, please review Wikipedia's guide to appealing blocks, then add the following text to the bottom of your talk page:. Bbb23 (talk) 18:50, 22 June 2024 (UTC)


 * The accusation against me is false. Two users working together trying to impose their point of view. It is true that I violated the limit of 3 resets and I apologize. They take turns undoing so as not to commit the same offense. Now the point of our argument is really funny. There is no dispute. They just think that the details I add are unnecessary. No mistake. I'm asking you. It is needless to mention for example that until 2019 the champion emerged from the regular duration of the championship and from 2019 until today it emerges after conducting playoffs; Montigliani (talk) 18:57, 22 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Please do not try to force a point of view as if you had the sole truth. You also ignore all arguments of other users and sources, that contradict your argument, e.g..
 * Furthermore, the detailed information, which you mentioned, are all described in the notes. However, you derive from that a further division of the league from 2005 and 2019, therefore WP:OR und WP:SYNTH, without providing valid sources, which explicitly represents your point of view. Miria~01 (talk) 19:19, 22 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Do you want sources? Here you go: https://www.iefimerida.gr/spor/super-league-hrysi-biblos-ton-protathliton-elladas, https://www.slgr.gr/el/statistics/, https://www.slgr.gr/el/management/, https://www.fosonline.gr/podosfairo/superleague/article/53037/super-league-anadeixi-protathliti-me-playoffs
 * My right is clear. Of course you managed to block me by vandalizing. I must congratulate you. Montigliani (talk) 19:59, 22 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Because of the personal attack, I've revoked Talk page access. Considering that part of the basis of the block was personal attacks, you're lucky I haven't extended the block. If you continue the personal attacks after expiration of your block, I will block you again up to and including indefinitely.--Bbb23 (talk) 23:05, 22 June 2024 (UTC)
 * You punished me very quickly, before I could give you an explanation. But look at the actions of the two users who accuse me.
 * Firstly. Remove sources from entry: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Super_League_Greece&diff=1230879331&oldid=1230441127
 * Secondly. Use of purely fan sources by user Abudabanas in another entry: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_PAOK_FC_records_and_statistics&diff=prev&oldid=1231642635
 * Thirdly. There was an agreement between the two users, before they began to take turns canceling me: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:List_of_unbeaten_football_club_seasons&diff=1230185711&oldid=1225927505
 * There are other oddities, but I don't want to go into it and have you accuse me of personal attacks again. I'm not doing anything wrong, I'm not adding anything that doesn't apply, I'm not removing any source as they all offer something. I explain what I do each time. Just follow me. If you still think I'm a problem, then punish me as you see fit. Montigliani (talk) 20:33, 29 June 2024 (UTC)

 You have been blocked from editing for a period of 1 month for edit warring, as you did at Super League Greece. Once the block has expired, you are welcome to make useful contributions. During a dispute, you should first try to discuss controversial changes and seek consensus. If that proves unsuccessful, you are encouraged to seek dispute resolution, and in some cases it may be appropriate to request page protection. If you think there are good reasons for being unblocked, please review Wikipedia's guide to appealing blocks, then add the following text to the bottom of your talk page:. Bbb23 (talk) 21:00, 29 June 2024 (UTC)


 * You suddenly blocked me again without warning me first or without asking me to clarify. I tell you again that our treatments have no essential difference. I simply propose that the championships of Super League 1 be entered in a different column from those of the A national category. The other user wants them in the same. But there are 2 big differences. The first is that the champion now emerges after a play-off, while not before, and the second is that Super League 1 is a different entity from the Greek Football Federation(HFF) and the Association of Football Societies (EPAE) that existed earlier. The champions and the order of the champions does not change. If you look at the introduction of the article it says exactly what I am telling you. The issue now is why the other user insists on separating primaries into only two substantive categories. The first from 1927-1959 and the second from 1960 to today (it mentions of course that in 1980 the championship became professional). I'll tell you what I understand. The user, as can be seen from his contributions, is a fan of PAOK. His team is in great rivalry with the other Thessaloniki team, ARIS. So I think he is trying to reduce the value of the ARIS championships, which are all before 1959 and he is afraid with my own separation that the value of 2 of the 4 PAOK championships, which are before the creation of the Super League, will be reduced. But if you look at the statistics here https://www.slgr.gr/el/statistics/ the Super League distinguishes the championships it organizes from the previous ones, starting from 206-07. Please study what I write and unblock me. I am not going to continue the war if I am found to be in the wrong. Of course I haven't, but since I can't find it, I'll move on. Montigliani (talk) 20:36, 5 July 2024 (UTC)