User talk:Moodman001

September 2021
Welcome to Wikipedia. We appreciate your contributions, but in one of your recent edits to Mood ring, it appears that you have added original research, which is against Wikipedia's policies. Original research refers to material—such as facts, allegations, ideas, and personal experiences—for which no reliable, published sources exist; it also encompasses combining published sources in a way to imply something that none of them explicitly say. Please be prepared to cite a reliable source for all of your contributions. You can have a look at the tutorial on citing sources. Thank you. DonIago (talk) 02:13, 19 September 2021 (UTC)

Help me!
Please help me with... Hi this is about my mood ring page - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mood_ring I'm the original inventor (1975) I need to put in the right image for the original mood ring, the one in there now is not correct. Please help, thank you Moodman001 (talk) 18:46, 26 October 2021 (UTC) Moodman001 (talk) 18:46, 26 October 2021 (UTC)
 * If you want, you can take a picture of an original mood ring (or just use one that's already been taken by you) and upload it to Wikimedia Commons. --I dream of horses (Contribs) (Talk) 19:41, 26 October 2021 (UTC) (added words at 19:42, 26 October 2021 (UTC))

Help me!
Please help me with... Thanks for your response re uploading the right mood ring image to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mood_ring However why would I upload it to Wikimedia Commons. --I dream of horses (Contribs) (Talk) 19:41, 26 October 2021 (UTC) (added words at 19:42, 26 October 2021 (UTC)) That is, will it replace the mood ring image already on the page, Thanks again!!! Moodman001 (talk) 19:49, 26 October 2021 (UTC) Moodman001 (talk) 19:49, 26 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Wikimedia Commons is a sister site of Wikipedia that is designed to easily upload photos to. They share servers, etc. You can then post a Requested Edit to add the photo to the article, even though the photo is on another site. --I dream of horses (Contribs) (Talk) 20:04, 26 October 2021 (UTC)

Help me!
Please help me with... Thx again for prompt reply. I'm afraid age has slowed down my brain;) wherein I'm confused. Perhaps you could spell out the steps, 1,2, 3 etc. When I go to Request Edit description it talks about text edits, didnbt see mention of gif images. Also, it asks to cite reference. The hisotry of the mood ring, original press articles, ads etc reveal the image of the orignal ring, BUT I'm not sure how to add them as a reference. Sorry for my confusion. Oh YES, could you do it for me IF I provide you the google drive link to the ring image? Moodman001 (talk) Moodman001 (talk) 20:31, 26 October 2021 (UTC)


 * Hi @Moodman001, it sounds like you might need somebody to talk you through the steps. It would probably be easier if you joined the "chat room" service. You can follow the link in the panel above. I'm going to leave this help request open in case another helper wants to offer a better solution. Salimfadhley (talk) 22:32, 26 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Sorry I missed you last night! I hope you got the help you needed. If not, we are still there. Salimfadhley (talk) 20:21, 27 October 2021 (UTC)

Help with request for citations
Greeting, please see paragraph that both asks for citations and fails to verify valid website for Congressman Joe DioGuardi

The original mood ring was created and marketed as the Mood Stone in 1975 by Josh Reynolds, and was based on over a year of research at his Stress Transformation biofeedback center in New York City.[citation needed] Manufacture of the mood stone was engineered by Maris Ambats, and the overall development, manufacturing and marketing efforts were funded by US Congressman, Joseph DioGuardi.[2][failed verification] The original mood ring retailed for $45 in a sterling silver or Vermeil setting.[citation needed]

1- what citation can I give you for ? I have a People magazine ref where 2-page story showed me, the inventor, in my biofeedback center - will that suffice?

2- [2] failed verification - something is wrong - The Hon. Joseph DioGuardi is owner of that site www.truthingovernment.org

3- What citation can I give you for - The original mood ring retailed for $45 in a sterling silver or Vermeil setting? I have dates and images of original ads showing the price, etc OR are they asking for a ref for "Vermeil"? Thanks again Moodman001 (talk) 19:28, 27 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Perhaps you have things back to front. You should write the article around the good quality sources you have, and not try to find sources having already written the article. If you don't have a source for the original price of the mood-ring then don't include that claim. Yes, it can be frustrating when you are forced to omit details you personally know to be true, however it makes for a better encyclopaedia when all claims can be verified with reliable secondary sources. --Salimfadhley (talk) 20:20, 27 October 2021 (UTC)

Thx Salim, One of the citations can be addresses with newspaper ads showing the $45 mood ring. I have the newspaper sourtce of several of the ads. How do I enter those? Thx again. Moodman001 (talk) 23:42, 27 October 2021 (UTC)

Continued issues with mood ring article
Greetings, I need to "chat" with admin how I can add some pertinent ("my opinion;) material/copy back onto the article that was removed. What is next step for this to happen? Thx and have a wonderful week. Moodman001 (talk) 18:42, 29 October 2021 (UTC)
 * "Your opinion" content is considered original research, which is forbidden. See No original research. David notMD (talk) 16:20, 30 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Given your conflict of interest as the (claimed) inventor of the Mood Ring, you are prohibited from editing the article directly. Instead, you are instructed to propose changes on the Talk page of the article, so that a non-involved editor can decide to include or not. See Edit requests for process. I understand this sounds unfair. David notMD (talk) 16:29, 30 October 2021 (UTC)

Sources in Mood ring
Hi Moodman001, in connection with this edit of yours I just wanted to mention a rather important Wikipedia policy, which is that all information should be directly based on reliable sources. By "directly based on" I mean that we as editors can't take a source that says, for instance, "stress leads to a lower temperature in the skin of the hands" and use it to claim that a ring that measures the temperature in the hands will show when the bearer is feeling stressed. Of the four sources you added in the edit I linked to, three do not mention mood rings at all, so they cannot be used to support any claims about mood rings. The fourth source mentions mood rings in passing, but does not say anything about their reliability. This means that the claim "the mood ring can be a relatively accurate indicator of emotions" is original research.

A little later, you added a couple of sources to support information about the different colours and how the mood rings work, including the statement "A black stone reflects cold hands typically reflecting extreme stress, fear or anxiety"; however, none of the sources mentions mood rings, and none of them says anything about cold hands "typically reflecting extreme [emotions]". On the contrary, they all point out that while there is a correlation between hand temperature and certain emotions, the strength of the emotion is not significantly indicated, and there is considerable individual variation.

I hope this makes sense. Regards, --bonadea contributions talk 12:52, 31 October 2021 (UTC)

Dear Bonadea. Before we express our disagreement and rebuttal to some of the assertions pointed out above, please let me know if this is the appropriate space to reply. Thank you. Moodman001 (talk) 16:44, 31 October 2021 (UTC)


 * This is the appropriate place to reply to @Bonadea. I dream of horses (Contribs) (Talk) 17:06, 31 October 2021 (UTC)


 * Yes, I watchlisted this page when I posted here, so it is fine to reply here. Just a quick question: you say "before we express our disagreement" – who is "we"? --bonadea contributions talk 17:10, 31 October 2021 (UTC)

Dear Bonadea. By "disagreement" I mean we believe there's sufficient evidence to support the original claims with references. Eg, re - 'By "directly based on" I mean that we as editors can't take a source that says, for instance, "stress leads to a lower temperature in the skin of the hands" and use it to claim that a ring that measures the temperature in the hands will show when the bearer is feeling stressed.' There is sufficient evidence that anxiety, a mood state & form of stress reduces peripheral blood flow to the extremities, thus cooling the finger. The mood stone was developed with a specific form of thermochromic liquid crystal designed to reflect 7 colors over a specific temperature range with a designated start-of-color (brown) temperature (25degree C), with each of the 7 colors "calibrated" to specific temps, with the end color (dark blue) at specific temp (95degree C). This corresponds to the typical range of human finger temps. In essence the mood stone developed out of my biofeedback lab in NYC in 1975 was and still is a thermal biosensor calibrated to the normal range of human finger temp. There is sufficient evidence that by definition such "biosensor" can and does reflect "stress", as modulated by sympathetic activation of the autonomic nervous system, aka a "stress-response" (H Selye).

Also, your statement - "none of the sources mentions mood rings," this is true but the original mood ring is defined by the mood stone, biosensor with the above properties.

And, your statement - "and none of them says anything about cold hands "typically reflecting extreme [emotions]". On the contrary, they all point out that while there is a correlation between hand temperature and certain emotions, the strength of the emotion is not significantly indicated, and there is considerable individual variation."

Good catch, let's remove "reflecting extreme [emotions]... and strength of emotion". However a black stone (temp below 25C) when significantly effected by finger temp (ie, in normal indoor air temp ambient), very typically reflects a state of fear &/or anxiety. I believe that the refs that were originally used (as I remember #1 & #4) and additional refs I could render, would and do support the claims.

I may have stated this above, however your statement - "we as editors can't take a source that says, for instance, "stress leads to a lower temperature in the skin of the hands" and use it to claim that a ring that measures the temperature in the hands will show when the bearer is feeling stressed.'

Good point - the bearer may not be attuned to (ie, feel) their stress response, this does vary from individual to individual, nonetheless, the finger temp does reflect nervous system activity, "cold hands" (or, finger temps below 26C) typically reflect a stress-response, typically with the associated emotion of fear &/or anxiety. NOTE sorry to be so repetitive, I'm stressed now;) Moodman001 (talk) 18:33, 31 October 2021 (UTC)


 * Hi @Moodman001, based on what you have written above I think you might be misunderstanding two very important principles of Wikipedia which at first can seem absurd and counterintuative.
 * The first is that we don't do original research. We simply report on what other sources which have done research. This leads to the slightly odd sounding result that even if we happen to be experts on a subject, Wikipedia doesn't let us write what we know. We can only write about what the sources say.
 * The second is that we don't synthesize. This is an odd sounding term, but it's asking us not to join the dots as you seem to be doing above. You've found some research above that suggests that skin temperature correlates with emotion. You've found another source that shows how the mood ring's colour correlates with skin temperature. Does it follow that a mood ring's colour is an indication of mood? Well, that's a nice theory but unless we have a reliable secondary source that says exactly this we just cannot make the statement on Wikipedia.
 * I'd urge you to reconsider what @Bonadea is saying, since they are trying to explain how we edit on Wikipedia. This editor is not trying to challenge your knowledge of mood rings but this editor is definitely trying to ensure that your edits are more appropriate. Salimfadhley (talk) 18:47, 31 October 2021 (UTC)

THANK YOU Salimfadhley - you are very clear. Let me try this - re your - "You've found another source that shows how the mood ring's colour correlates with skin temperature. Does it follow that a mood ring's colour is an indication of mood?

Clearly a thermochromic material's color can be stated to reflect the temperature impinging on the material (ie, the mood stone, aka thermal biosensor). Re, "... a mood ring's color is an indication of mood.." Good point, it is supportable that the color/finger temp does reflect an underlying cause of such temp/peripheral blood flow to the extremities, and in this case evidence reveals emotions (but not their degree of extremeness), such as fear and anxiety. Thx again! I'm learning, just need to get the real story out w/o compromising wiki "law" Moodman001 (talk) 19:04, 31 October 2021 (UTC)


 * Yes, it is far from intuitive that we can't use our own expertise or draw conclusions from facts we know, unless there are sources that explicitly draw the conclusions for us. Believe me, I have struggled with that, too! This policy page explains it pretty well.  It is longish, but includes plenty of examples of what is and is not considered original research.  I'm sorry if I made you feel stressed, that was absolutely not my intention.  The sources you found are of very good quality – papers in peer-reviewed journals and books, which is exactly what Wikipedia wants, but unless a source directly supports the content in an article, it can't be used, no matter how reliable it is.


 * I think I was a bit unclear in my first post to you above – I wasn't wondering about "disagreement" so much as your use of the plural pronoun, "we" and "our". That might mean that more than one person uses this Wikipedia account, which is not allowed; if that should be the case, don't worry, just disclose the fact and then create an individual, separate user account for each person. (I realise I used "we" above, myself, saying "we can't use our own expertise" :-)   That was an inclusive "we", meaning you and me and other Wikipedia editors.)  Regards, --bonadea contributions talk 19:51, 31 October 2021 (UTC)

THANK YIOU, "we" is me;) Where would I submit a new write-up? Cheers. Moodman001 (talk) 20:45, 31 October 2021 (UTC)


 * The place to do that is the article talk page, Talk:Mood ring. Have a look at the information page Edit requests, which talks about how to add an edit request, and how it should be formulated. Note that for a substantial change or addition, it is usually best to start a discussion on the article talk page first, without an edit request, in order to reach a WP:CONSENSUS about the content.


 * In connection with posting to talk pages, could I ask you to have a look at this information about indenting talk page posts? It makes the discussion easier to follow when responses are indented. Thanks! --bonadea contributions talk 10:47, 1 November 2021 (UTC)