User talk:Moogsoftware

Please do not add commercial links &mdash; or links to your own private websites &mdash; to Wikipedia. Wikipedia is not a vehicle for advertising or a mere collection of external links. See the welcome page if you would like to learn more about contributing to our encyclopedia. Thanks. -- Renesis13 23:24, 13 January 2006 (UTC)

You wrote:
 * I'm not certain how to leave a message on this page - this is the best I can guess. Why did you remove my posts as spam? The page Task list clearly has a number of external links at the bottom to relevant software. My addition was entirely relevant and in keeping with the article.

Please don't take offense to my removal. There are a number of reasons I removed it. I appreciate your dealing with this by talking to me. You obviously have good intentions. I personally feel the software is not notable enough to be written about in Wikipedia (keep in mind - Encyclopedia. See also: What Wikipedia is not). The important point here is that even lists of software products on Wikipedia are not web directories - they are lists of notable products that have encyclopedic value. If you feel your product fits, I'd suggest bringing it up on the talk page for the article. Again, no offense meant. Thanks. -- Renesis13 23:39, 13 January 2006 (UTC)
 * 1) The software in question does not have a Wikipedia article. (Thus, questionable notability; in other words, likely spam. See WP:CORP)
 * 2) All of your other contributions have been to add the same or similar external link to several pages.
 * 3) Wikipedia is an encyclopedia but not a web directory. If the software is relevant and notable, then it should be listed. I am not necessarily supporting those products already listed - just trying to monitor the addition of new listings.
 * 4) Seeing as the software is by "Moog Software" and your username is Moogsoftware, I assumed you are involved. See: Autobiography

You wrote:


 * No offence taken, I see your point about the multiple links. I am new to wikipedia and I am still struggling to understand how to add content in keeping with the general theme (in particular how to add new pages?)
 * In looking back I believe that the addition to the external links on Task list is reasonable since it is an external link amidst other external links. I accept that the other entries were out of place.
 * However, given that you believe the software is not notable enough I would like to propose to you that I add a wikipedia article about Moog Software and about our philosophy. We are not a large site it is true but it is a philosophy which I believe should be aired in wikipedia and which I think should be linked to from the relevant areas.  The crux of the philosophy is that people spend more time trying to use applications than they save by using the applications.  They then lose significant productivity just through having to deal with the very tool that is supposed to be helping them.  This has come about because of the perfect 'product problem' - if a company is selling a product that performs it's task in an optimal manner then they must invent solutions to imaginary problems to give the appearance of increased value in each subsequent version.  This leads to feature bloat which leads ultimately to the degredation of the tool itself and diminished value to the end user.  This is particularly true in the case of overly complex project management applications.  Our solution is to make our products free which leaves us free to make them as simple and intuitive as possible.  If you are amenable to this suggestion then this is how I will progress.
 * I would furthermore suggest that the existing programs on the Task list external links section are less notable than SimpleTODO. As evidence I show that ackerTodo's sourceforge project stats show download rates of around 20 to 40 per day yet SimpleTODO alone gains download rates far in excess of this.  Major independant download site tucows for example shows it has a popularity rating of 92%.  A very high popularity rating shared also by SimpleDesktop and SimpleBackup.
 * Given this would you suggest that the existing external links be removed or that SimpleTODO etc are added?

Your philosophy seems well founded, but part of notability is that there is a large enough group of people who would be looking for an entry about Moog Software for it to be necessary to include an article on it. You seem to have very good intentions and I hate to turn you down, but it does seem there are a couple policies that would contradict the article on Moog Software that you described or throw red flags up to other editors who may come across it: Wikipedia also highly discourages starting articles about yourself or your organization. Of course, this is all just my take, in repsonse to your request for my opinion. I would encourage you to read the policies yourself and try your best to see what you can do within them. I'd also encourage you to definitely try to get your message out using other appropriate means; it sounds like a good philosophy, but at this point probably not encyclopedic.
 * 1) Wikipedia is not a publisher of original thought (Original research, personal essays, etc.) (see entry)
 * 2) Wikipedia is not a soapbox (see entry)
 * 3) Wikipedia is not a mirror or a repository of links, images, or media files (see entry)
 * 4) Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate collection of information (FAQs, "resource for conducting business", etc.) (see entry)

My advice to you is to use other forums and directories and such to spread your message, and stick around Wikipedia if you have the time to help. Your research on ackerTodo is highly helpful, and I would suggest removing that link from Task list, as it sounds like it was probably spammed onto there. Another thing you might do is to contact those involved in the WikiProject Spam spam removal project and ask their opinion on your case. You are definitely going about it the right way by having participating in discussion, and I'm sure everyone appreciates that.

You could also go ahead and create the article, although the likelihood it will en up on Articles for Deletion is high. One reason I was monitoring the pages you modified was because earlier that day a president of another project management software company had gone around adding his links to all those pages. I checked his history, and in the past he created an article about his company, and that got deleted. He had links all over to his website, and they all got removed. It had been a few months so I guess he decided to try again. I appreciate you not going that route!

Hopefully someday you will have a strong enough influence that someone else will write an article about you! Good luck in the future, and keep in contact. Again, this is all just my take on the policy, and I am just trying to help. I'm perfectly happy to help you out however I can in the future. Thanks. -- Renesis13 18:42, 14 January 2006 (UTC)