User talk:MotherHubbard

Hello MotherHubbard. That's a clever name! Do you notice any conflicts between your membership in the Church of Scientology and your libertarianism? 60.49.12.26 06:14, 6 August 2005 (UTC)


 * I don't know if I'd be classified as a mainstream libertarian, but I really don't see any conflict. I've been asked that before, but there are actually quite a lot of libertarian-leaning Scientologists. MotherHubbard 16:14, 6 August 2005 (UTC)

I do not believe your statement that Novell alleged in their law suit that Billings is a Polygamist. Even if they had, such an allegation would not be sufficient grounds for your edits. Wikipedia is based on factual information and not allegations. I have contacted the writer that released the article quoting Novell's allegation, and have obtained a copy of the original Novell press release. It says nothing of the sort. I have not found anything in the public court records that even begin to support your assertion. If you have something reliable in this regard, please provide it to me. Firewriter 18:45. 9 April 2007 (UTC)

Reference on Germans and hydrogen
Hello, MotherHubbard,

I noted your changes to this article and think they improved it. I would like to know more about the German use of hydrogen for vehicles during World War II. Do you have a reference you could share? -II


 * This article discusses Germany's production of hydrogen internal combustion engines during WWII. I'm not sure where a scholarly reference might be. It also discusses this at hydrogen vehicle. MotherHubbard 16:56, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

Hey MotherHubbard, Kabede here. Thought this might be the best way to contact you. I'm interested in talking with you about "the cave" sometime if you have time. I, like you, believe the truth about Roger Billings should be known. My biological mother is one of his "wives", and I lived there for a short time in the 90's. As all of my siblings have spent some time visiting and been exposed to many of the evils that exist there, I would be interested in hearing your experiences and any information you may have regarding that cult. The only people I can remember leaving in the 90's are Merkley, and the Cherrys for a time. I left many young friends there who are now trapped as adults. It is a tragedy and a travesty that needs to be brought to light. I can post my email if you like. Kabede 21:32, 22 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Thanks. I have a good friend that was with the group for a while, and still has ties there, and I'd rather not risk involving my friend by revealing to much specific information, but I'm willing to talk in general terms about what I know. I really wish somebody would do some good journalism on this group, and interview some former members. There's so much spin and historical revisionism. I heard that some of the group are claiming they aren't even a religious group anymore, and that they never were. If somebody published something based on interviews, we could quote it on Wikipedia as a "verifiable source". MotherHubbard 01:19, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

My personal email is bedecakes@hotmail.com  My family knows some of the ex-spouses of men who joined up. I have actually contemplated contacting them, maybe try contacting Don as well. The only problem is that so many ex-members live in fear of Roger. Who knows what he is capable of, when I have seen him beat children, and know of young girls he took to wife. I used to be afraid of him, but not anymore. Give me an email sometime if you like, and we can discuss in more detail. Kabede 18:00, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

Comments on Billings article
Your un-factual attacks on Roger Billings are not in the best spirit of Wikipedia. If you have specific material that you do not believe is verifiable, please remove those items, and leave the rest of the article in tact.

The hydrogen engines that were operated in Germany before World War II were operated on "town gas", and common product produced at that time from coal. Town gas is made up of hydrogen, carbon monoxide, and methane. It has properties very different from hydrogen making it much easier to use in the internal combustion machine, and of course, has pollution in the exhaust. The only other German project I have uncovered was the work of Rudolf Erren who experimented with hydrogen engines for air ships. His work was to convert Diesel engines to hydrogen, but was never successful.

It is a verifiable fact that Billings has made a very important contribution to the field of hydrogen energy and in many other fields. Your quoted "allegation" on its face, constitutes an unverifiable fact.

Please let me know if you have anything factual regarding this matter. Firewriter 18:20. 9 April 2007 (UTC)

Your personal agenda on this matter is revealed from your post on Kabede.

"I just wanted to say I applaud your efforts to set the record straight on Roger Billings and the Church of Jesus Christ in Zion. I live relatively close to where their "cave" is located in Blue Springs, Missouri, and one of my buddies used to be a member of their polygamist cult back in the 90s, but left in a hurry after it started getting too weird. MotherHubbard 19:56, 2 February 2007 (UTC)"

The Underground is not a "cave" and does not house a "cult". It is a legitimate school with students of many faiths and backgrounds. Clearly you have a strong personal bias that motivates your edits in a manner that is not in the best interest of Wikipedia. If you live close to the Underground, perhaps you should arrange a visit to find out first hand what is really going on.

As far as Kandi Klein (Kabede) is concerned, it is a clear fact that she does not have a good relationship with her mother, and is on a personal witch hunt to discredit Billings. She blames him for breaking up her family. I should know since I am her Mother. I was forced to leave my relationship with her father due to physical abuse when she was too young to understand. While it is true that she did visit me on a few occasions, she is not aware of the things she claims. I am not, and have never been the wife of Roger Billings. He does not beat children and is not a polygamist. Kandi was young when she last visited me over ten years ago. She has a lot of anger, but is not a good source of information about Roger Billings. Treepoet 19:00. 9 April 2007 (UTC)

Sorry MotherHubbard about my biological mother's post. She is right on some things, like the fact that we don't have a relationship currently, the fact that physical abuse was present in her and my father's relationship with one another, but little else. I do not blame Roger for breaking up my family. My parents' divorce was the best thing that could have happened to it. I would have preferred my biological mother not join up with a cult in order to leave, but that is what happened. Eileen may claim that she never was the wife of Roger, but she did, at least for a while, go by his last name. She did have two of his children. She did share a bed with him and his first wife. If "wife" is not the term she chooses to go by, so be it. Maybe "spiritual wife", "eternal companion" or something else would not be so reprehensible to her. The point is that Roger maintains a sexual relationship with many women. This she cannot deny. Well, I guess she can, but run a few DNA paternity tests, and they will speak volumes. While it is true that I have not been out there in many years, that does not nullify what I experienced and witnessed while there. And I SAW children physically abused. I SAW young women who bore his children. I lived there for a year together, and visited for months at a time each summer for many years. Eileen knows the truth, but wants to cover it up to protect Roger's reputation. It is bad for business after all. Okay, the last two sentences are somewhat conjecture as to the reason for her denying the truth, but that does not change what is the truth about Roger. As to a "witch hunt" to discredit him, he has done a good enough job in discrediting himself with his actions. I am merely reporting some of his past ones. Kabede 21:49, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

Revert on Roger Billings, adding tabloid references
MotherHubbard,

I noticed that you reverted my edits on the Roger Billings site last night.

As I understand it, the Pitch is an alternative weekly magazine that spends a significant amount of energy trying to "dish out dirt" on the local government in Kansas City. While it may be a respected source by some, it is indeed a tabloid, and it's references don't seem to fit in with the BLP rules on reliable sources.

I quoted the BLP rules section that caught my eye below, for your convenience.

I do not think that the references from the Pitch (Johnson 2005) should remain.

Jimmy Wales has said:

"I can NOT emphasize this enough. There seems to be a terrible bias among some editors that some sort of random speculative 'I heard it somewhere' pseudo information is to be tagged with a 'needs a cite' tag. Wrong. It should be removed, aggressively, unless it can be sourced. This is true of all information, but it is particularly true of negative information about living persons." He considers "no" information to be better than "speculative" information and reemphasizes the need for sensitivity:

"Real people are involved, and they can be hurt by your words. We are not tabloid journalism, we are an encyclopedia."


 * He was talking about gossip rags, like National Enquirer, etc. Just because a periodical covers controversial material doesn't make it inappropriate for Wikipedia. One of the goals of the Washington Post is to "dish out dirt" on the federal government. But it's still a good source. The Pitch is in tabloid format (which just means how the papers are arranged), but so is the New York Post, and I don't think anyone would complain about citing an article from there. The Pitch article is a well-written piece of investigative journalism based on actual interviews. It's not the kind of thing Jimbo Wales is worried about. MotherHubbard 16:45, 18 May 2007 (UTC)