User talk:Mptp94/3 February 2006 to 25 September 2006

Grand Lodge of Massachusetts
Freemasonry in Massachusetts dates to the early 18th century, and the foundation of its Grand Lodge is wound through with the threads of the (then) ongoing disputes between the Moderns and the Antients.

After the formation of the Grand Lodge of England (later referred to as the Moderns) in 1717, and the amalgamation of individual Lodges into that body, Lodges and Masons in the Boston area asked one Brother Henry Price to go to London, and petition the Grand Lodge for a Warrant in order to be considered regular, in accordance with a regulation dated in 1721.

First Provincial Grand Lodge
by the Grand Lodge of England (Moderns) 1733

Price did so, and returned in the spring of 1733 with more than just a Warrant for an individual Lodge - he was made "the Provincial Grand Master of New England and Dominions and Territories thereunto belonging" by the Grand Master, The Right Honorable and Right Worshipful Anthony Lord Viscount Montague.

This Provincial Grand Lodge was historically known as St. John's Grand Lodge, and chartered numerous Lodges in the Colonies, the first one, in Boston, being known and recorded as First Lodge in the English rolls of 1734, now known as St. John's Lodge.

(problem here: at http://www.mastermason.com/wilmettepark/Revere.html only four Lodges were listed as having been created by St. John's Grand Lodge * St. John’s Lodge, Boston - 1733 * Philanthropic Lodge (originally St. John's Lodge, Marbelhead - 1760 * St. John’s Lodge, Newburyport - 1766 * Union Lodge, Nantucket - 1771

However, on the Grand Lodge of Massachusetts webpage, under the history of the GL, we find, regarding the St. John's Grand Lodge, that after First Lodge was chartered "Within the colony, four more Lodges were chartered in Boston and one each at Salem, Marblehead, Newburyport and Nantucket."

Eight more Lodges were chartered in Massachusetts by this body, bringing the total to nine:


 * First Lodge (St. John's Lodge), Boston - 1733
 * , Boston
 * , Boston
 * , Boston
 * , Boston
 * , Salem
 * Philanthropic Lodge (originally St. John's Lodge), Marbelhead - 1760
 * St. John’s Lodge, Newburyport - 1766
 * Union Lodge, Nantucket - 1771

Working class men, Scotland and the Antients
Lodge of St Andrew warranted by GL of Scotland (which, with the Irish Grand Lodge at the time, were considered Antients) 1756 which became a Provincial GL in 1769, by joining with three British military units in petitioning the GL of Scotland:


 * Lodge of St. Andrew (Scotland)
 * British Army Lodge #58 (Antient) in the 14th (Irish) Regiment of Foot
 * Glittering Star Lodge #322 (Ireland) with the 29th regiment
 * Lodge Number 106 (Scotland) with the 64th regiment (which left before the inauguration of the GM, Joseph Warren http://www.phoenixmasonry.org/the_builder_1918_october.htm)

Due to the Revolution, and based on the state of affairs between the US and Great Britain, the Scottish Provincial Grand Lodge drafted new constitutions, breaking from the Grand Lodge of Scotland and becoming Massachusetts Grand Lodge, 1782.

There was a growing rift in the Lodge of St Andrew regarding this decision to seperate, and in December of that same year, it came to a vote. Thirty Masons voted to stay part of the Grand Lodge of Scotland, and nineteen voted for the Massachusetts Grand Lodge. No action was taken on this vote, and it was laid on the table until the end of the war. In January of 1784, they voted again, with twenty-nine voting for Scotland, and twenty-three for Massachusetts. Those voting for membership in the Massachusetts Grand Lodge were expelled from the Lodge of St. Andrew. However, they formed their own Lodge of St. Andrew under the new Massachusetts Grand Lodge, which caused confusion for some time, until it was renamed Rising States Lodge.

as follows - Provincial GL by the Grand Lodge of England (Moderns) 1733; Lodge of St Andrew warranted by GL of Scotland (Antients) 1756, ; post revolution, Provincial Grand Lodge (Antients) drafts new constitutions, becoming Massachusetts Grand Lodge (Antients)1782; Lodge of St Andrew votes to stay part of the GL of Scotland, dissentors expelled from St Andrew and become new Lodge under Grand Lodge of Massachusetts (Antients) 1784; Union of St John Grand Lodge (Moderns dating from 1733) and the Massachusetts Grand Lodge (Antients from 1769) 1792, creating (formal title) the Most Worshipful Grand Lodge of Ancient Free and Accepted Masons in Massachusetts (now - of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts; Lodge of St Andrew affiliates with

Rathbone
Well, the block on Basil Rathbone has ended, and he has picked up right where he left off!. Same edits, same reverts, etc. Can we get him blocked perminantly? I would put the request in, but I don't know how. Blueboar 14:16, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

women in freemasonry
According to the freemasonry article the GOdF officially recognizes female freemasons. Also I was having this conversation on Blueboar's talk page. It is troubling to me that in about 20 minutes after I posted a responce on his talk page you managed to write out a complete response to me and reply in his place. If I wanted to respond to you, I would have. Seraphim 20:54, 8 February 2006 (UTC)


 * I'm so glad you are troubled . . . I'm not the only one on wikipedia to respond to issues raised on another's talk pages, to a third person.--Vidkun 22:18, 8 February 2006 (UTC)
 * The issue is that you responded to it so quickly. Before he even had a chance to respond, when you had no active discussion on his talk page, it means that you are monitoring his talk page. Seraphim  22:59, 8 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Actual, ANY page that I have edited on, be it talk page or main article page, is automatically on my watchlist, except when i go in and manually UNWATCH them. So, when I go and look at my watchlist, and I see a topic header I am interested in, I look at the topic.  It's a function anyone can use.--Vidkun 01:34, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

Something must be done
I'm going to petition some of the more agressive admins to just block the problem user forever. Do you see this as an issue? The emphasis fixes, for instance, are obvious MOS requirements, and he's reverting them out of spite. Hipocrite - &laquo; Talk &raquo; 15:38, 9 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Unfortunately, I have to agree. This user seems to have a history of bad faith edits, reverts, and personal attacks, and some of those attacks have been extremely personal in nature, by way of attempting to cast aspersions on other editors' motivations for editing.--Vidkun 15:40, 9 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Hi Vidkun, I've blocked him for personal attacks, for 3 hours. I would block for longer, but that is policy. If he does it again please let me know, and the blocks will be longer. Cheers (and would you mind removing his attacks?)  Ban  e  z 


 * I understand. However, he to be blocked for short periods first, and then longer and longer if he persists. If things get really bad, arbitration.  Ban  e  z  18:08, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

Thanks
Thanks for the heads-up on my redundancy in the Wiica article - Talliesin

Rathbone on alert section
Thanks, I went and fixed it. Ardenn 16:39, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

Regarding Rathbone
I'm intrigued by his information, and hope he takes the time to properly source it. Thats why I urged him to do it. I appreciate your remarks, but fail to see their relevance. If he's faking sources, isn't that an issue for admin? I don't see how it has anything to do with me - I am neither admin, nor an expert on Freemasonry. I can't exonerate Basil, nor confirm your suspicions of intellectual fraud. If your message was intended as a cautionary one, I thank you. However I had no intention of taking sides or participating in a debate that I know nothing about. I merely expressed my frustration with the article on the talk page, and urged Basil to help break the impasse by citing his sources. That was going to be the extent of my participation, I assure you. Deucelow 22:22, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

Thanks. I have urged him to cite - thats all I can do really. If he chooses not to, or is unable to then that reflects on him. His information will not be included without references. I'm certainly not going to chase him around to do it, or weigh in on his side. Lifes too short! Deucelow 22:34, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

Barnstar
The Original Barnstar

Sorry
You are right. I over reacted and I am sorry. This is all you you are getting from me. but thanks i deserved it for being an ass. SaintDante 00:51, 25 February 2006 (UTC)

Listen. Could you respond? I dont think you like me but could just respond? SaintDante 19:11, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

Stalwart Builders
I just got a copy of this book, and it will help out immensely with the GLMA article, just as soon as I get a chance to sit down and go through it again. MSJapan 05:17, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

Categories
Hi. See User talk:Cynical for the whole thread. Cheers, Rklawton 19:36, 3 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Interesting that Freemasonry in particular was picked up on, though I didn't see a specific reason why it should in the context of the article - perhaps that's useful for article purposes somehow? MSJapan 11:35, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

Looking for articles to work on?
Hello, Vidkun. I'm SuggestBot, a Wikipedia bot that helps new members contribute to Wikipedia. You might like to edit these articles I picked for you based on things you've edited in the past. Check it out -- I hope you find it useful. -- SuggestBot 16:31, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

Edit on Wicca
Hi, Vidkun. I reverted what seemed to be a nonsense edit on the Wicca page (see diff), but that also meant removing your edit, which was basically just a citation request for the nonsense edit. Just wanted to explain what was happening. Justin Eiler 15:26, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

Wiccan Rede
Here's the ERN version. As you can see, there are many relatively minor differences. Intriguingly, the last line has "an ye harm none", but has "the" in the first half. So no early published version agrees with the anonymous editor's version, but every one of them has at least one "ye" in one of the places s/he added them, and all the places are "yeified" in one or other of the versions. Paul B 22:50, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

Review Reqest
I've been working on an article related to Appendant bodies and would appreciate you casting an eye over it. The bit about other order mentioning Shriners etc could usefully use some input from your side of the pond, similarly the section on youth organisations. [] TIAALR 15:46, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

response to "wikipedia dissillusionment" comment
Don't worry, I've been under the same university standards - we are not allowed to use encyclopedias as sources, either. What they were warning against was using Wikipedia as a source for sources - as often the sources listed are not at all good, or are biased/fringe views (take a look at the history of some of the sources used on the Knights Templar pages, for instance). In the case of mathematics profs, I'm not talking about research - they were warning against the use of Wikipedia as a source for formulas/extra info (basically, they told us to go find a text on the subject instead). DonaNobisPacem 18:06, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

Mediation Cabal
Hi there, I have volunteered to be the mediator for the Virginia Military Institute case in the Mediation Cabal. Please see this link to voice your thoughts and evidence in the discussion section. Thanks! Cowman109Talk 02:48, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

RGLE
Keep an eye on RGLE, as Artifex99 is a sneak vandal, and he should be up for a 3RR next time he reverts. Use WP:AIV if it becomes an issue. MSJapan 02:49, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

MHCUSA
Please cast your eye over MHCUSA. -- RHaworth 16:07, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

RGLE
You are preaching to the choir here... they are totaly and completely irregular (and a bit of a scam as well). Unfortunately, Wikipedia is not the place to argue regularity. All we can do is insist on NPOV by saying: "RGLE, and its offshoots, say they are regular and adhear to the ancient land marks, the rest of the world says they are irregular". That at least is citable fact. Blueboar 21:35, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

VMI Case
I have updated the VMI Case, and I'd like to know if you are alright with the case being closed. Feel free to reply directly after my note in the mediator's comments section. Cowman109Talk 00:40, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

AfD Nomination Regular Grand Lodge of England
I've nominated the article Regular Grand Lodge of England for deletion under the Articles for deletion process. We appreciate your contributions, but in this particular case I do not feel that Regular Grand Lodge of England satisfies Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion. I have explained why in the nomination space (see What Wikipedia is not and Deletion policy). Your opinions on the matter are welcome; please participate in the discussion by adding your comments at Articles for deletion/Regular Grand Lodge of England. Don't forget to add four tildes (&tilde;&tilde;&tilde;&tilde;) at the end of each of your comments to sign them. You are free to edit the content of Regular Grand Lodge of England during the discussion, but please do not remove the "Articles for Deletion" template (the box at the top). Doing so will not end the discussion. Ardenn 05:31, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

My Wiccan views on Divinity rewrite
I can't really figure out how to word the idea that the Goddess and God are tribal deities, particularly since I'm not sure where this has been published. I've also slowed down on my edits, and I should probably move it to Talk:Wicca. Shall I copy your comments there too? What I've written actually includes several ideas that I haven't yet found references for (half my library is awol at the moment); I'm hoping others can help with some of this.

By the way, thanks for your input in this and other areas of Wikipedia. It's really nice to brush into people as knowledgable and conscientious as you. You also seem to have managed to get a lot done in the time you've been here. Cheers, Fuzzypeg 05:47, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

Knights of Columbus
I've asked for a peer review for the Knights of Columbus article, with the hopes of making it a featured article. Any help you could give would be great. Thanks! Briancua 13:49, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

RfC on Frater FiatLux
It's here. I know you made several comments on Talk:Golden Dawn tradition. Perhaps you could give an outside view? -999 (Talk) 18:41, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

WP:WPN
The reason why I added the dablink was because I was trying to get to the Nintendo Wikiproject. I thought that the shortcut was naturally WP:WPN (Wikipedia:Wikiproject Nintendo). Instead, I come to neopaganism, which is a big WTF for me. I google it, find the correct project, and the real shortcut is WP:NES, which to me is kind of obscure. So, in short, I added the dablink at the top to aid in navigation. If you agree that it would aid in navigation and redirecting lost users, please restore it. If not, that's fine, because WP:NES is firmly etched in my mind. Hbdragon88 23:28, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

new AFD on Jabhulon
By a strict application of WP:RS... we may now be ready to resubmit the article for AFD... see talk:Jahbulon Blueboar 03:29, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

Aldux didn't vandalize Jkelly's page; he REVERTED vandalism
Hi, before assuming that someone is guilty of vandalism, it's a good idea to check the history of the page, not just the last edit! See also here. Cheers. AnnH ♫ 14:17, 1 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Vidkun, thanks for trying to keep my talk page from being abused. It is appreciated. Clearly you haven't met Aldux yet, so you wouldn't know that there is really no danger of vandalism from this account. (''cross-posted from User talk:Aldux). Jkelly 15:31, 1 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Sorry about the false accusation. I was dealing with three names that were unfamiliar to me, and I copied the wrong one. Jkelly has kindly fixed my mistake. AnnH ♫ 15:42, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

As a former military man
An AFD you may have a view on: here

Incidentally, do you know of a military class ring with a bright blue, amythest almost, stone? I saw one at some meetings in SPAWAR recently, but didnt take the time to find out what it was. Would be grateful if you could offer a possible explanation. BBALR 22:06, 5 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Thanks for that, since I asked the question I've had a nose around the articles. Given the context, he was a civilian, it could have been anything.  Regards.  ALR 15:29, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

New AfD on Jahbulon
FYI - I have filed a new AfD on Jahbulon. With most of the supporting material for the speculative stuff deleted due to WP:RS issues, I think it is ready for deletion. Blueboar 19:13, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

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Earth Pentacle
Thanks for picking me up on the errors in that pentacle. I've figured out what it's supposed to say (finally) and I'll correct and rearrange all these words (including reversing the word order so they read right to left). I should have read the instructions for construction as soon as I got home, to make sure I got it right, rather than just following some dodgy picture I found on the net. :-) Fuzzypeg ☻ 23:28, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

Chat
Hi, Vidkun. It's entirely possible we know one another outside of this context. If the term "bad seed" pierces your heart, then you'll find me at the Dagda's harp.

If that doesn't make sense to you, you're not who I guess you are, and we'll have to do this another way.


 * It's also my nickname where the above references are found. I'll see if I can contact you other than through here.
 * Septegram 16:18, 25 September 2006 (UTC) *looking mildly smug at having figured out who you were*


 * A Massachusetts Masonic veteran who uses a septegram in his userbox and works on the B* page? How many of those are there likely to be?
 * Septegram 16:37, 25 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Heh heh. *preens*
 * Thanks for the FList.
 * Septegram 16:49, 25 September 2006 (UTC)