User talk:Mr. Atan

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The Wikipedia tutorial is a good place to start learning about Wikipedia. If you have any questions, see the help pages, add a question to the village pump or ask me on my talk page. By the way, you can sign your name on Talk and discussion pages using four tildes, like this: &#126;&#126;&#126;&#126; (the software will replace them with your signature and the date). Again, welcome! Ktrimi991 (talk) 15:32, 7 September 2019 (UTC)

Names in languages other than Macedonian
If you wish to remove such content, better seek consensus on the talk page of the article before doing that. Ktrimi991 (talk) 15:33, 7 September 2019 (UTC) The Albanian names I removed on those few villages are where the number of Albanians are <20%. Plus, all those villages are in the Bitola Municipality, where the Macedonian is its official language, altho GREEK is sometimes used as well. There isn't a single bilingual sign in Bitola Municipality, so stop adding Albanian. Am I supposed to remind you as well that this is MACEDONIA, not your squip republic? Mr. Atan
 * First off, "squip republic" does not exist. Idk what you are talking about. On the articles, nobody is adding Albanian names; they have been there for long and you are trying to remove them. Settlements' names in languages other than English are not added only for those places where multilingual road signs are used. Open a discussion on the talk page of one of those articles where your edits were reverted for more community input. And do not say again "this is MACEDONIA". This is actually Wikipedia. Cheers, Ktrimi991 (talk) 19:49, 7 September 2019 (UTC)
 * @Mr.Atan. Greek is not used north of the border. Please no need for unsubstantiated claims of the sort. There are some signs on the main road in Greek by businesses to cater for monolingual Grecophone customers (overwhelmingly of Pontian descent) who cross the border to buy goods at a cheaper price. That is in no way an indicator of a Greek presence. The bulk of the Aromanian element that supported Hellenism left after the Balkan Wars for Florina. Those left north of the border spoke Aromanian and Macedonian. Among Slavic families that supported the Patriarchate of old, after the border was established those pro-Greek sentiments died out north of the frontier. On Albanian names, for some of those villages, Muslim Albanians were the only population before their numbers dwindled due to migration post WW2. Nonetheless the names stay due to their historic (and current) presence.Resnjari (talk) 19:58, 7 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Additionally, in the municipality of Bitola there are still villages which have a sizable Albanian population that speak Albanian among themselves and there are Albanian primary schools within them (i.e Kisava) etc. So yes there are places where Albanian signage is used. What the law did last year was to extend language services as mandatory in places where Albanians met the 20% threshold as opposed to the previous 25% mark. It has in no way changed or impacted the state adversely and Macedonians still remain the titular ethnic group of the state, as was. What it has meant for Albanians though is that they have better access to services in places like Bitola municipality.Resnjari (talk) 20:05, 7 September 2019 (UTC)
 * I removed the Albanian names where the per cent of Albanians is below 20%. Maybe they played a major factor in the past, but they're not playing it now meaning there's no need of the Albanian names to stay there. It is ridicilous that they are living in a country that isn't Albania and want full rights. In other words, there's absolutely no need of the Albanian name to stay there when the Albanians aren't making even 20% of the population in those villages. Hope you'll understand.Mr. Atan (talk) 20:15, 7 September 2019.
 * "It is ridicilous that they are living in a country that isn't Albania and want full rights." Wow. If that's what's driving your editing, then it comes under WP:RIGHTGREATWRONGS. Please, no need. On settlements, the Albanian presence is still there, only smaller. The wiki guidelines on placenames can be found here WP:NCPLACE: It states the following: Relevant foreign language names (one used by at least 10% of sources in the English language or that is used by a group of people which used to inhabit this geographical place) are permitted. The articles have this sourced about the Albanian presence, so the names are applicable.Resnjari (talk) 05:53, 8 September 2019 (UTC)
 * .... Ktrimi991 (talk) 07:05, 8 September 2019 (UTC)
 * There are some signs on the main road in Greek by businesses to cater for monolingual Grecophone customers (overwhelmingly of Pontian descent) who cross the border to buy goods at a cheaper price. Using "Pontic" as a description of the "overwhelminghty" of people who visit North Macedonia from Greek Macedonia (the people who you refer to), is an irredentist claim used by the ultranationalists from North Macedonia towards the people from the other parts of the region of Macedonia to prove that the people in Greece and Bulgaria can't be called Macedonians even though they do idendify as such. This ultranationalist claim which you seem to like repeating around in various talk pages, has no places in Wikipedia, as it is deemed a personal attack against entire groups of people, which you will regret. Such attacks usually lead to blocks. If you don't believe me, then I shall remind you what happened to these editors who were blocked from Wikipedia for keep calling the former POTUS Barack Obama an "African man" despite self-idendifying himself as Hawaian-American. --- ❖ SilentResident ❖ (talk &#9993; &#124; contribs &#9998;) 18:21, 8 September 2019 (UTC)
 * where did you pop up from? I have not encountered you on these pages before. Anyway what you wrote up there makes no sense. People who speak Macedonian in northern Greece when they come over to shop on market day (Tuesday) in Bitola etc use Macedonian. The Greek signage etc is aimed overwhelmingly at customers who are monolingual Greek speakers, often of Pontian descent whom were resettled in the Florina region after Muslims (Albanian and Turkish) were made to leave in 1923 due to the "exchange of populations". You may not be aware but people at a local level across the border in Greece still use designations that are not always the word Greek for themselves to distinguish various linguistic and other differences which the state does not recognise (and neither does a sizable part of the Greek populace). Academia does note this reality and the term "Pontian": (p. 117., para 7, 10 , p. 42 , p. 103. etc). Saying someone is of Pontian descent is not offensive, for when one gets into a conversation eventually it comes out, well that's what happened when i encountered such individuals. And yes, last year when i walked the main road from my grandparents village near the Greek border to Bitola (a 2 half hour walk in scorching heat) i did stop to chit chat with people along the road at certain points where there was Greek signage and a business, due to curiosity. My comments here are from personal observations. You shouldn't jump the gun like this because from appearances it may look like one is saying that so and so is a nationalist and racist. I hope that is not what your implying of me and that its a innocent misunderstanding on your part, and if its not, frankly its odious and disgusting. If you wholeheartedly think i wrote something offensive in those previous comments, you should not relent but report me to the appropriate noticeboards.Resnjari (talk) 19:20, 8 September 2019 (UTC)
 * I appreciate that you took time to explain what it is really about. I am relieved that the aforementioned cases of Pontic idendity of visitors to North Macedonia are not always brought up in relation to nationalism in the country. Since this is the case, just ignore my above comment. As for why I am here, it happens that I am keeping a close eye to articles relating to countries like Russia which staunchly opposed the historic Prespa Agreement and which were accused by the international community for promoting far-right POV in the Balkans and abroad, including the region of Macedonia (with recent cases reported both in North Macedonia and in Greece). That's why I am checking on articles such as North Macedonia–Russia relations which led me to this editor here, hence finding this conversation. I keep an eye on contributions and I am trying to make sure any propaganda and Russian/far-right nationalist POV wont have any place in Wikipedia. My only problem is that, due to my sheer size of bookmarked articles, it may take time to check everything WP:ARBMAC-related. Have a good day. --- ❖ SilentResident ❖ (talk &#9993; &#124; contribs &#9998;) 22:41, 8 September 2019 (UTC)
 * , if Russia is your concern, then your comments should have mentioned Russia (and probabaly started a different thread on the talkpage), something which was not the topic discussed here with the said editor in the talkpage. Read the comments in full so all the context is gleaned before going off on a tangent that no one else had in mind as it becomes very unpleasant and can carry appearances of WP:TALKSTALK and even trolling. Thanks.Resnjari (talk) 15:35, 9 September 2019 (UTC)
 * "if Russia is your concern, then your comments should have mentioned Russia (and probabaly started a different thread on the talkpage), something which was not the topic discussed here with the said editor in the talkpage." My concerns were in relation to your labeling of the customers from Greece as overhelmly Pontic which sounded worrisomely similar to the claims made by nationalists that the population is overwhelmly pontic. Perhaps if you had avoided the term "overwhelmly", or if you have it clarified like this: "the ones I met were overwhelmly", then nothing of all that would have happened. Russia is indeed my concern, as is nationalism. Don't forget that. These will be tackled in Wikipedic context, and in line with the project's rules, not for the sake of tackling it on every contributor's talk page otherwise it is crossing the lines of harassment.
 * "Read the comments in full so all the context is gleaned before going off on a tangent that no one else had in mind as it becomes very unpleasant and can carry appearances of WP:TALKSTALK and even trolling. Thanks." If my memory does not fail me, I am not the first editor you have felt you are being stalked or hounded by. Is that right? If I am correct, you appear to have had similar incidents with other editors on the Albania/Serbia topic area. Well, it can't be helped. If you are failing to distinguish between checking on contributions/contributors and the act of stalking, then you better fix this, the sooner the better. Because (and unfortunately for me), our roads will cross multiple times given how the Macedonia topic area is of common interest for both of us and you will have to get used to it. Our cooperation will be much smoother if you aren't as suspicious and badfaithing of your fellow editors for having such motives. Good day. --- ❖ SilentResident ❖ (talk &#9993; &#124; contribs &#9998;) 16:50, 9 September 2019 (UTC)
 * @SilentResident, missed this reply, but it looks like you took no note of what i said above which was "Pontian descent", not "Pontic" or whatever you want to infer from my comments when when i said no such thing. And yes those people are of Pontian descent. As i also noted that scholarship uses the terms Pontian for people in the Florina region. I highly doubt they are nationalists. Northern Greece is a multiethnic region, even with the 100 years or so of demographic changes, just like the rest of the country which contains many multiethnic, multilingual and in the modern era multifaith communities. As for Russia, don't give a crap and i have no idea what it has to do with me or the thread i was engaged in. As i said before if it was something to do with this editor a new thread could have done the task. Coming out of nowhere in a discussion about articles that had no prior involvement from you and then going off on all sorts of tangents could lead one to think that someone is engaging in a little WP:TALKSTALK. If you got nothing else to do with your time, why not, you might learn something if you have open mind.Resnjari (talk) 21:47, 12 September 2019 (UTC)


 * And could you tell me the proper reason what is your need of the Albanian names of the villages in Macedonia (the ones with less than 20% Albanians and somewhere even less than 10%)? @Resnjari Mr. Atan (talk) 19:42, 20 September 2019 (UTC)