User talk:Mr Tan/plan draft-2

Dr Wee Kim Wee is not a member of PAP. He doesnt belong to any political party. Please amend accordingly. Thanks!

Note
I do not want any points to be deleted for the time being. Please ask User Nichalp and see Maharashtra and Maharashtra/temp for more details first.

Tan 13:52, 13 May 2005 (UTC)

English, editing, etc.

 * 1) "Passed away" is suitable for some contexts, perhaps, but it's merely a euphemism for "died", and we shouldn't be using rather twee euphemisms in an encyclop&aelig;dia (see the main Talk page for an explanation of register).
 * 2) It is not acceptable for an editor to post "Keep off" notices on Wikipedia pages; it's not acceptable for Mr Tan to do it, nor for Nichalp to do it (see Wikipedia:Village pump (policy)#Temp pages for a discussion of this.
 * 3) The temp article was full of grammatical errors, and also needed to be wikified (with regard to headers, dashes, etc.); it is not aceptable for editors to revert changes which merely tidy and correct the article. Mr Tan's approach to such matters is already the subject of an RfC, and he has been censured by a number of editors, defended by none. His poor attitude to Wikipedia shouldn't be taken as a r&ocirc;le model by others. Mel Etitis  ( &Mu;&epsilon;&lambda; &Epsilon;&tau;&eta;&tau;&eta;&sigmaf; ) 11:34, 13 May 2005 (UTC)


 * Let's let Mr. Tan finish his work first. When it's finished, we can see if it contains good styling and grammar. All I can say about Mr Tan's grammar and styling is that they are very, very unique.


 * But if it is not good, we can edit it. JMBell° 12:03, 13 May 2005 (UTC)


 * I understand your good intentions here, and I can see your point &mdash; but I feel that Mr Tan has to learn that Wikipedia is a collaborative project. he has to learn that his determination to take control of articles (and of this temp page), and to impose his agenda on others, is not acceptable.
 * His approach seems to be to find an article of which he approves, and then to force other articles into the same mould, regardless of Wikipedia style and policy; this "editing by analogy" has led to trouble in a number of ways. The idea that he's going to replace the existing article with one of his own devising, when the main article is being edited by a number of other people and his replacement is riddled with stylistic and grammatical errors, needs to be nipped in the bud.
 * If there's to be a temp article at all (and I don't see the point in this case), then every editor on the main article should be involved in the temp version. Mr Tan, however, is trying to use the temp article to sidestep the need for collaboration. Mel Etitis  ( &Mu;&epsilon;&lambda; &Epsilon;&tau;&eta;&tau;&eta;&sigmaf; ) 13:58, 13 May 2005 (UTC)


 * He can learn that way. Right now, he doesn't seem to be learning anything, so why don't we let him do his stuff, and then teach him the lesson when he's finished? If he still won't have any of it, he can learn the hard way. It's his choice now. JMBell° 15:40, 13 May 2005 (UTC)

Please let me finish my work in the death first--you have deleted the necessary points in the death section. I know that it needs rephrasing, but please do not interfere with the deletion of points, even if it maybe to be unnecessary to you.

Tan 22:35, 13 May 2005 (UTC)


 * You kep reverting my corrections of the grammar and of the Wikipedia style; when you stop doing that, you might find that adding genuine content is more rewarding. You need to learn that no article belongs to you, not even the temp page, and that it is not acceptable for you to insist on your poor English and incorrect style. Add material by all means, but don't try to correct other people's grammar &mdash; you're simply not up to it. Mel Etitis  ( &Mu;&epsilon;&lambda; &Epsilon;&tau;&eta;&tau;&eta;&sigmaf; ) 15:05, 13 May 2005 (UTC)

I never say that the article is mine. I know that adding genuine content is good either. But I insist that you stop your edits on the removal of facts. If they are not genuine facts, why should I have wasted my time to put it up then? I wouldn't mind you editing the style and grammar, in fact, I'm happy to let you do that. But please, show mutual respect for each other lah. I do not want you to delete the facts first. They are genuine, for I am armed with a collection of newspaper information about him, prepared to be edited right here. I know that the facts will be re-edited. So, since I'm know Wee Kim Wee very well, let me complete the edit of the content first before you step in.

Ah, yes, before I forget, I would like to add a statement of apology concerning the do not edit this page notice.

Tan 22:15, 13 May 2005 (UTC)


 * I'm glad that you're prepared to have the grammar and style corrected (and that you've aplogised for the noyice), but I'm worried that your message above was accompanied by your reverting all my corrections to the grammar and style. The two aren't clearly consistent... Mel Etitis  ( &Mu;&epsilon;&lambda; &Epsilon;&tau;&eta;&tau;&eta;&sigmaf; ) 15:33, 13 May 2005 (UTC)

I apologise again, as I could not detect your corrections to the grammar and style in contrast to my content that I intended to revert. However, had not it been accompanied alongside, I wouldn't have delibrately reverted.

I will elaborate on ''His 69-year-old companion, Vincent Wong, immediately rushed out of his house upon receving a call from Wee's family stating that he was in a critical condition. Wong arrived at Wee's house at 5:25 am, fifteen minutes after Wee had died.

It was raining as the convoy reached his house and the entrance was lined with wreaths and a Guard-of-Honour. '' so, please do not hide the content for the time being while I add some more content to elaborate my information.

Tan 00:07, 14 May 2005 (UTC)


 * Well, at least we're getting somewhere. Tan, may I ask you to retain this good nature and stop accusing us of vandalism and attacking etc.? If we collaborate peacefully, we can build up our articles together, and we won't waste so much time on RfCs and RfArs and so. And you might even get a chance to improve your grammar. ;) All the best and regards to all. JMBell° 16:25, 13 May 2005 (UTC)

If you notice, Mel is a very hard-headed person, if you can notice his reverts, combined with my explanations in talk pages. As for Wee Kim Wee, I would like you all to follow my path, as I have the intention and potential to give add a lot of content about him. (Do not edit the facts as they mean a lot when I add more) However, I will be happy if you point out and change my English error, the same will apply to everyone. This is collaboration in editing. I will only be friendly and cooperative to you if you are only friendly and cooperative with me as well.

tan 00:56, 14 May 2005 (UTC)

Can we just leave Mr Tan alone?
I am not implying that I condone Mr Tan's behavior if he does proof to be taking ownership of articles, but can I ask everyone to just let him finish all the editing he wants to this page before the rest of us come in, review his work, and then incorporate the stuff which are ok to the actual page itself? There is no need to presistently budge in and edit this page just to "teach him the idea of collaborative work". This "disciplinary" methodology clearly have not worked, and is unlikely to work for the forseeable future. I will only object if Mr Tan proceeds to replace the actual article with this version without concensus and without consultation from the rest of us, but fro mthe way it is going now, I would actually personally prefer that he write his stuff in his own page first so that we can review his inputs in one location, instead of directly "messing up" the actual article, and creating a war zone out of it!--Huaiwei 19:38, 13 May 2005 (UTC)


 * Fair enough &mdash; you make a good point. Mel Etitis ( &Mu;&epsilon;&lambda; &Epsilon;&tau;&eta;&tau;&eta;&sigmaf; ) 20:20, 13 May 2005 (UTC)

Temp pages
Hi, I just noticed this temporary page with a sign on it saying it shouldn't be edited. I don't think this kind of page is allowed, because it's now in the encyclopedia, notwithstanding that it has the word "temp" after it. Temporary pages have to go in a user subspace or on talk e.g. User:Mr Tan/Wee Kim Wee/temp or Talk:Wee Kim Wee/temp (i.e. this page). It should be moved or deleted. Mel, what's your view? SlimVirgin (talk) 15:02, May 25, 2005 (UTC)


 * The general feeling seems to be that anything that stops Mr Tan editing the main article is probably a good thing, and that if he restricts himself to playing with this, no harm's done. His proprietary attitude to it is certainly non-Wikipedian, but that's his attitude to all articles.  It's been made clear to him that he's not to do what he did at Zanskar (replace the article with his version, and revert-war over it).  This sort of temp page is used by other editors, I know (there was a discussion at Wikipedia:Village pump (policy)#Temp pages], but how widely accepted it is I'm not sure. Mel Etitis  ( &Mu;&epsilon;&lambda; &Epsilon;&tau;&eta;&tau;&eta;&sigmaf; ) 16:23, 25 May 2005 (UTC)


 * Temp pages are a good idea, but they're not supposed to be in the encyclopedia, so far as I'm aware, and anything in the encyclopedia can't have these restricted-editing notices on them, especially the one he's created himself. I don't mean to be difficult, but this has been going on for some time, with no sign of abating. SlimVirgin (talk) 16:37, May 25, 2005 (UTC)

I agree, but despite n RfC which is unanimously critical of him (plus an earlier RfC on him under a different name), not to mention many other critical comments by a wide range of editors, he simply won't learn better behaviour. As you'll see above, I tried to get him to stop here, but arguing with him is like beating your head against a brick wall. I've contacted a member of the arbcom to see if arbitration is a suitable next step, and I'm still waiting to hear back. Far from thinking that you're being difficult, I'd welcome your help. My requests for help on the Admins' noticeboard didn't meet with much interest (just the usual comments critical of him). The first thing is perhaps to move this temp page to his User space (the other one was in fact created by Nichalp I think). Mel Etitis ( &Mu;&epsilon;&lambda; &Epsilon;&tau;&eta;&tau;&eta;&sigmaf; ) 20:51, 25 May 2005 (UTC)

Move back
''Shift back the content from User:Mr Tan/Wee Kim Wee to Wee Kim Wee/temp, anyone? I feel very bad and would not like to work in such a state in my user space. I swear that no notices will be put up anymore. See Maharashtra/temp for example.

Tan 13:24, 2 June 2005 (UTC)