User talk:Mrn helmers

Bruce Flatt
I'm responding to your e-mail here, because I'm not going to have a private e-mail conversation about Wikipedia content. I've made that mistake in the past, and had people deliberately misquote what I told them if it wasn't what they wanted to hear, and/or make an effort to start harassing me if their results didn't go according to plan — so I want what I say to be documented on Wikipedia so that it's publicly accessible to everyone who might need to review the conversation for whatever reason in the future.

At any rate, the thing I want to clarify up front is that getting Bruce Flatt a Wikipedia article is not an entitlement — a lot of people seem to think it is, but it's not. It's certainly something that can happen if the article is written and sourced properly, but it's not something that's guaranteed to happen if the article reads too much like a public relations profile and/or is supported by sources that aren't the correct type to support notability. So here's what you would need to know:


 * Firstly, familiarize yourself with our conflict of interest policy. Although it does strongly discourage Bruce or his employees having a direct role in creating an article about him, we're aware that it's not possible for us to entirely prevent that from happening — so the one absolute rule that you have to follow under that policy is to exercise caution to ensure that you're following our content rules, rather than writing a "public relations" profile that serves Bruce's interests more than ours.
 * Secondly, if you do decide to proceed, make sure that you have reliable sources (which means media coverage about him, such as newspaper or magazine articles, books, etc., not the company's own press releases or the Bloomberg executive profiles directory) ready to cite, and make sure that the writing tone is neutral and encyclopedic, not advertorialized. You can also use a very little bit of the company's own primary source content about itself for uncontroversial facts that aren't impacting on his notability (e.g. if his "our CEO" profile on the company's own website includes information like his age or where he went to school, then you can cite it for that), but the core career content that speaks to whether he's notable enough to have an article at all has to be referenced to independent coverage in media rather than sources that he or the company's employees created yourselves.
 * Thirdly, do not try to create the article in our main articlespace right off the top. Instead, follow the WP:AFC process by starting the article at Draft:Bruce Flatt and then submitting it for review by an AFC reviewer when you're done. It may still be rejected if it's not good enough yet, but if so the reviewer will give you some feedback on what you need to do to improve it — it is not a one-and-done sort of deal, but you will have the opportunity to work on it some more and then try again. Take the feedback as constructive and try to follow it. And of course, if it is good enough and fully compliant with all of our rules, it will be accepted and moved into mainspace.
 * Fourthly, don't take any of it personally. Nobody here has any animus against Bruce Flatt as a person; our rules are complicated not because we're trying to hurt anyone, but because a lot of people wrongly think we're a free advertising platform on which to post their own résumés or other PR content that has more to do with publicizing themselves than with what belongs in an encyclopedia. As an encyclopedia, we have to maintain certain standards about how a person gets an article, and what an article on here has to look and sound like, in order to maintain our trustworthiness as a source of information. Having a Wikipedia article can also have more negative consequences than a person can realize, because for one thing our open structure means that if someone out there doesn't like Bruce for whatever reason (disgruntled former employee? somebody he got into a fight with at Starbucks a week ago?), they can also edit the article to attack him by adding unflattering or even outright false content, or by adding his private contact information to the article in the hopes of getting random internet trolls to harass him — and as much as we try to fix that when it happens, we cannot guarantee that we'll always catch every edit of that type right away. So our rules are also meant to protect him by making sure that all content is properly referenced, so that if somebody does try to attack or misrepresent him by adding inaccuracies to the article we're able to sort out what's right and what's wrong. So it's necessary to understand what our rules are, and try your best to follow them — but know that they aren't meant to harm Bruce, but to protect our content standards and Bruce's privacy rights and dignity.

At any rate, I hope that helps a bit. Bearcat (talk) 14:09, 29 March 2018 (UTC)

Hi Bearcat, Thank you for writing the response to my question. Not sure if you will be notified of my comments here, but giving it a try. I have no experience creating content for Wikipedia and don't really know where to start. Given that there used to be a page for Bruce Flatt, is there any way to get hold of the content so that I can use that as the starting point for my draft? Many thanks in advance. Bearcat (talk) Mrn helmers (talk) 14:47, 24 April 2018 (UTC) Marion Hayes

Your submission at Articles for creation: Bruce Flatt (October 29)
 Your recent article submission to Articles for Creation has been reviewed! Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time. The reason left by AngusWOOF was:

The comment the reviewer left was:

Please check the submission for any additional comments left by the reviewer. You are encouraged to edit the submission to address the issues raised and resubmit when they have been resolved.


 * If you would like to continue working on the submission, go to Draft:Bruce Flatt and click on the "Edit" tab at the top of the window.
 * If you now believe the draft cannot meet Wikipedia's standards or do not wish to progress it further, you may request deletion. Please go to Draft:Bruce Flatt, click on the "Edit" tab at the top of the window, add "db-self" at the top of the draft text and click the blue "publish changes" button to save this edit.
 * If you need any assistance, you can ask for help at the [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:WikiProject_Articles_for_creation/Help_desk&action=edit&section=new&nosummary=1&preload=Template:Afc_decline/HD_preload&preloadparams%5B%5D=Draft:Bruce_Flatt Articles for creation help desk] or on the [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:AngusWOOF&action=edit&section=new&nosummary=1&preload=Template:Afc_decline/HD_preload&preloadparams%5B%5D=Draft:Bruce_Flatt reviewer's talk page].
 * You can also use Wikipedia's real-time chat help from experienced editors.

AngusWOOF ( bark  •  sniff ) 17:33, 29 October 2018 (UTC)

Your submission at Articles for creation: Bruce Flatt (October 31)
 Your recent article submission to Articles for Creation has been reviewed! Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time. The reasons left by Robert McClenon were:

The comment the reviewer left was:

Please check the submission for any additional comments left by the reviewer. You are encouraged to edit the submission to address the issues raised and resubmit when they have been resolved.


 * If you would like to continue working on the submission, go to Draft:Bruce Flatt and click on the "Edit" tab at the top of the window.
 * If you now believe the draft cannot meet Wikipedia's standards or do not wish to progress it further, you may request deletion. Please go to Draft:Bruce Flatt, click on the "Edit" tab at the top of the window, add "db-self" at the top of the draft text and click the blue "publish changes" button to save this edit.
 * If you need any assistance, you can ask for help at the [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:WikiProject_Articles_for_creation/Help_desk&action=edit&section=new&nosummary=1&preload=Template:Afc_decline/HD_preload&preloadparams%5B%5D=Draft:Bruce_Flatt Articles for creation help desk] or on the [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Robert_McClenon&action=edit&section=new&nosummary=1&preload=Template:Afc_decline/HD_preload&preloadparams%5B%5D=Draft:Bruce_Flatt reviewer's talk page].
 * You can also use Wikipedia's real-time chat help from experienced editors.

Robert McClenon (talk) 19:04, 31 October 2018 (UTC)

Your submission at Articles for creation: Bruce Flatt (businessman) has been accepted
 Bruce Flatt (businessman), which you submitted to Articles for creation, has been created. The article has been assessed as Stub-Class, which is recorded on the article's talk page. You may like to take a look at the grading scheme to see how you can improve the article. You are more than welcome to continue making quality contributions to Wikipedia. If your account is more than four days old and you have made at least 10 edits you can create articles yourself without posting a request. However, you may continue submitting work to Articles for Creation if you prefer. Thank you for helping improve Wikipedia! &mdash; Frayæ (Talk/Spjall) 18:45, 1 November 2018 (UTC)
 * If you have any questions, you are welcome to ask at the  [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:WikiProject_Articles_for_creation/Help_desk&action=edit&section=new&nosummary=1&preload=Template:AfC_talk/HD_preload&preloadparams%5B%5D=Bruce_Flatt_(businessman) help desk] .
 * If you would like to help us improve this process, please consider.

Un-accepted
The article you recently created, Bruce Flatt, had an improper review and is not ready to remain published. I've moved your draft to draftspace (with a prefix of Draft: before the article title) where you can incubate the article with minimal disruption. When you feel the article meets Wikipedia's general notability guideline and thus is ready for mainspace, please click on the "Submit your draft for review!" button at the top of the page. ☆ Bri (talk) 21:34, 11 January 2020 (UTC)

Your submission at Articles for creation: Bruce Flatt (April 22)
 Your recent article submission to Articles for Creation has been reviewed! Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time. The reason left by Theroadislong was:

Please check the submission for any additional comments left by the reviewer. You are encouraged to edit the submission to address the issues raised and resubmit when they have been resolved.


 * If you would like to continue working on the submission, go to Draft:Bruce Flatt and click on the "Edit" tab at the top of the window.
 * If you now believe the draft cannot meet Wikipedia's standards or do not wish to progress it further, you may request deletion. Please go to Draft:Bruce Flatt, click on the "Edit" tab at the top of the window, add "Db-g7" at the top of the draft text and click the blue "publish changes" button to save this edit.
 * If you do not make any further changes to your draft, in 6 months, it will be considered abandoned and may be deleted.
 * If you need any assistance, you can ask for help at the [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:WikiProject_Articles_for_creation/Help_desk&action=edit&section=new&nosummary=1&preload=Template:Afc_decline/HD_preload&preloadparams%5B%5D=Draft:Bruce_Flatt Articles for creation help desk], on the [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Theroadislong&action=edit&section=new&nosummary=1&preload=Template:Afc_decline/HD_preload&preloadparams%5B%5D=Draft:Bruce_Flatt reviewer's talk page] or use Wikipedia's real-time chat help from experienced editors.

Theroadislong (talk) 20:33, 22 April 2020 (UTC)

Your submission at Articles for creation: Bruce Flatt has been accepted
 Bruce Flatt, which you submitted to Articles for creation, has been created.

Congratulations, and thank you for helping expand the scope of Wikipedia! We hope you will continue making quality contributions.

The article has been assessed as Start-Class, which is recorded on its talk page. Most new articles start out as Stub-Class or Start-Class and then attain higher grades as they develop over time. You may like to take a look at the grading scheme to see how you can improve the article.

Since you have made at least 10 edits over more than four days, you can now create articles yourself without posting a request. However, you may continue submitting work to Articles for creation if you prefer.

If you have any questions, you are welcome to ask at the  [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:WikiProject_Articles_for_creation/Help_desk&action=edit&section=new&nosummary=1&preload=Template:AfC_talk/HD_preload&preloadparams%5B%5D=Bruce_Flatt help desk] . Once you have made at least 10 edits and had an account for at least four days, you will have the option to create articles yourself without posting a request to Articles for creation.

If you would like to help us improve this process, please consider.

Thanks again, and happy editing! CaptainEek Edits Ho Cap'n!⚓ 21:37, 30 April 2020 (UTC)