User talk:Mudlists

Please do not add commercial links &mdash; or links to your own private websites &mdash; to Wikipedia. Wikipedia is not a vehicle for advertising or a mere collection of external links. See the welcome page if you would like to learn more about contributing to our encyclopedia. Thanks. --NaconKantari 00:17, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

spam
Please do not add commercial links (or links to your own private websites) to Wikipedia. Wikipedia is not a vehicle for advertising or a mere collection of external links. You are, however, encouraged to add content instead of links to the encyclopedia. See the welcome page to learn more. Thanks. Onthost 00:20, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

I am not adding commercial links, if you had taken the time to actually read the page I had posted to you would have realized that the link I added was directly related to the entry.

Yes you are,you are adding commercial links/a link to your own website and is therefore spam. I have posted a alert to admins as well. Onthost 00:33, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

What's the Difference?
I dont quite understand what the difference is between my external links reference to a website and other external link reference to other sites, or why do you choose to delete my link and not mudmagic, or topsites, or mudconnector or any of a dozen other links in this field?

If you would take the time to tell me, perhaps I am wording my entrie in a way that you find offensive and they have not? Or is it that I just posted a lot of entries in a very short period of time adding my reference link to multiple listings.

Each listing is in fact a game in itself, I am simply allowing players to READ existing player reviews for the game that has been listed here.

There are a dozen code bases for the above games, I am simply posting a reference link to allow people to find the various games that have been coded by that codebase.

This is exactly what Wikipedia is about.


 * First off posting your commerical link on Wikipedia is SPAM, plain and simple. Secondly Wikipedia is not for advertising web sites, especially your own website. While relvent, your links are not welcome here: Wikipedia is not a vehicle for advertising or a mere collection of external links. Onthost 00:47, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

So is the issue that I have posted the reference link myself? mudlists.com is a free resource available to anyone running a MUD. There are about 1,700 of these games in existance, wikipedia has an entire section set up for these games to list themselves. I was only adding player reviews to these games (that were already listed here.) If the owner of a game is permitted to list his own game why is it inappropriate for a reference to player reviews of that game be added? I've read the wikipedia rules ... "Wikipedia is not a web directory. However, adding a certain number of external links is of valuable service to our readers." ... I would think that someone wanting to read about a game on-line might be interrested in what other players have to say about it.

How do you define 'commercial website?' and how do you figure that the site I was referring to is a commercial website?

Finally, while there are 3-4 quality sites such as my own in existance on the net, why is it that these other sites are able to list themselves, but I am not able to list mine? -
 * The issue is the other sites werent setup to make money. Yours was made for all muds as a commercial venture and listing it here is an advertisement for said site. Also sign your posts with 4 ~s. Onthost 05:18, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

mudlists.com does not charge anyone for listing their games on our site, it is free. Nor do we charge anyone for anything other than placing a banner on our front page. These funds are used to help us pay for the costs of running the website. This is exactly the same for the other sites that I refer to above. Actually in our case, we allow the these games to bid for the banner location. The other sites (ie. mudconnector, mudmagic and topsites) all charge flat fees. Yes we do have quite a few banners on our site, 99% of these are banner exchanges with other sites.

1. Mudmagic is actually a registered company whose sole purpose is to sell web hosting. http://www.mudmagic.com/banners/

2. TopMudSites, the largest MUD web portal sells the most banners of any of the others and has absolutly no MUD related resources on their site what so ever -> http://www.topmudsites.com/advertise.shtml

3. mudconnector, the largest of us all, is affiliated with wolfpaw.net, another large web hosting company --> http://www.mudconnector.com/tmc/adinfo.html

In fact, of the 4 of us, mudlists.com is the only one that does not actually generate a profit from the site.

Thank you for continuing this discussion, I am learning a lot about how wikipedia works. Mudlists 06:26, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

Welcome!
Welcome!

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 * Now, down to business. The thing is your website does appear to myself as a commercial venture, also your site seems to offer no extra features which arn't available elsewhere. I am not trying to bite you, and I also hope no-one else is, but I am mearly trying to make you understand that the addition of external links to sites such as yours does not assist the encylopedia. I understand how this situation may be frustrating, but please understand that we are trying to help benifit the encyclopedia and community, but several editors have felt your website does not help in this. Some of the duplications of links do not help either, as we aim to only include it once, and child articles to not need it (i.e. MOO). The fact it is a personal site does not assist in matters as this means this is considered as spam and, no offence, your username does not really make others feel you are contributing with a neutral point of view. Please note it is standard policy to remove links to your site and any others, from new editors, since it is likely they will be promoting spam. Neathertheless, I wish you good luck in editing.

Ian13ID:540053 20:27, 9 January 2006 (UTC)


 * I now therefore ask that the above is considered an official warning, and I ask that you be careful, because linking to commercial sites can be a blockable offence. Sorry. Ian13ID:540053 22:02, 9 January 2006 (UTC)

Spam...again
Please do not add commercial links (or links to your own private websites) to Wikipedia. Wikipedia is not a vehicle for advertising or a mere collection of external links. You are, however, encouraged to add content instead of links to the encyclopedia. See the welcome page to learn more. Thanks. , many editors besides myself have flagged your additions as spam. We are not trying to be mean, however adding your link to pages does not help the articles, rather it helps your website. Please do not add any more spam links to wikipedia. As well, your link was removed by an editor on DakuMUD (sp?) and you readded it. Please don't do this anymore. We want you to be a productive member of Wikipedia and if your able to make a great website, you should use those skills to add non commercial information to articles your interested in (ie. muds) =)Mike 21:47, 9 January 2006 (UTC)

HMM You should read the above comments ...
 * Adding my link does infact help the 'articles.' The 'articles' themselves are commercial listings. I am merely posting links to player reviews of the games these 'artiles' are advertising.


 * Yes I reposted a reference to DukiMUD, I changed how the posting was presented, I completely removed any reference to the url of the site being referenced. Any I posted only one reference to test the wording and I did not re-post the other links on the other listings.


 * I have commented regarding this topic, no one can answer my question. Why am I being singled out out of 3 other postings.  Why are they permitted to stay where mine is not?

Mudlists 02:11, 12 January 2006 (UTC)


 * May I now warn you that there are now 3 seperate editors who percieve your additions as spam. Adding them can violate WP policy, and reverting peoples removals also can. If you continue you face bening blocked from editing. Sorry. Ian13ID:540053 20:59, 12 January 2006 (UTC)

You have been temporarily blocked from editing for vandalism of Wikipedia. Please note that page blanking, addition of random text, deliberate misinformation, or repeated and blatant violation of WP:NPOV is considered vandalism. If you wish to make useful contributions, you may come back after the block expires. If you feel that this block is unwarranted, you can add the text {{unblock&#125;} below this message with a brief explanation. Knowledge Of Self  |  talk  21:03, 12 January 2006 (UTC)

Why is it that you all say ive vandelised, ive even been BLOCKED for it ... but none of you can tell me WHY the posting was removed when other EXACTLY SIMILAR postings are permitted to stay. I dare say that not one of you have actually read the listing I posted to. Mudlists 02:03, 13 January 2006 (UTC)
 * I am going to go through all the artcles you "contributed" to and take out any commercial links I find. Mike 02:33, 13 January 2006 (UTC)


 * I have unblocked you, because I believe that you are making these edits in good faith. I wish to apologize for the block as you seem to be trying to improve our encyclopedia! Please read this. It may help you to understand why your additions are being seen as spam. Thanks and again sorry for the trouble this has caused, and also welcome to Wikipedia. Knowledge Of  Self  |  talk  03:34, 13 January 2006 (UTC)

Thank You
Thank you for unblocking me, I've read the 'How to not be a spammer' article and now understand why some of you are of the opinion that I was spamming. I am new to wikipedia and was not aware of your rules. I was reading some articles relivant to the website that I operate and saw that some of the other websites similar to my own had been listed as references and thought to add my own.

I am confident that adding a reference link to player reviews of games that are permitted on wikipedia (Category:MU* servers) should be permitted as they would absolutely benefit the article. However, I will not re-post these links so as not to be considered a vandal again. Wikipedia currently lists only about 50 of some 1,700 games. Word is going to get out and that page is going be become very very large. My website is simply a collective listing of these games, allowing potential players to search for a new game and to do some research the game prior to playing it. Our goal is not to make money from it. The entire MUD community is FREE, the source code for the games is FREE, anyone can set one up. It is a very transient community, these games pop up and close overnight. While there are some who have been around for over a decade, the vast majority of them do not even last 1 year.

Wikipedia has allowd articles about the geneology of the 'MUD' source code (Category:MU* servers) and rightly so. These articles are valid and SHOULD be part of any valid/modern encyclopedia. However, it only makes sense that once a codebase for a game is articled, someone is going to want to offer their game as an opportunity to try that game. (As infact exists already on Wikipedia).

I would like to encourage the Wikipedia group to continue to permit the listing of these servers/games and I would like to find out what is involved in volunteering to take the time to make sure that the these specific listings are managed. I know this community very well, and am known in the community very well. (I would of course, have to change my username.)Mudlists 15:57, 14 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Thank you for your understanding. Thing is, I don't think many editors can see the benifit of your additions, since your site seems to offer no more than any other, and hence it is just a duplication. Also, since it is your site, and contains banners to others (even non-comercial ones), it does make your additions seem spammy. Also, since nearly all of your edits are conserning the addition of your website, it does make this possibly seem like a spam account. Ian13ID:540053 16:06, 14 January 2006 (UTC)


 * I absolutely agree with you. I can completely understand how they would appear as spam.  I was posting identical links to each of the 50+ games that are listed so it would appear as spam.  But again, I was simply linking 'player reviews' for that specific MUD (game) back to my site.  There are about 50 of those games listed, so it would have appeard as my randomly posting links back to my site ... as for my site seeming to offer no more than any other ... only someone who understands what a MUD is and MUD community as a whole would appreciate my website offers :)))
 * I have a MOO, and we are started a huge devlopment program. But good luck in editing, and please, go easy on the links ;) Ian13ID:540053 16:35, 14 January 2006 (UTC)