User talk:Mudwater/Archive 14

Happy New Year


Mudwater, Have a great 2020 and thanks for your continued contributions to Wikipedia.

– 2020 is a leap year   – news article. – Background color is Classic Blue (#0F4C81), Pantone's 2020 Color of the year '' Send New Year cheer by adding     to user talk pages.

–  North America1000 21:24, 30 December 2019 (UTC)


 * Thanks, and happy MMXX to you! — Mudwater (Talk) 01:37, 31 December 2019 (UTC)

New Page Reviewer newsletter February 2020
Hello ,

The first NPP source guide discussion is now underway. It covers a wide range of sources in Ghana with the goal of providing more guidance to reviewers about sources they might see when reviewing pages. Hopefully, new page reviewers will join others interested in reliable sources and those with expertise in these sources to make the discussion a success.
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New Page Reviewer newsletter June 2020
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NPP Sorting can be a great way to find pages needing new page patrolling that match your strengths and interests. Using ORES, it divides articles into topics such as Literature or Chemistry and on Geography. Take a look and see if you can find time to patrol a couple pages a day. With over 10,000 pages in the queue, the highest it's been since ACPERM, your help could really make a difference. In late February, Google added 5 new languages to Google Translate: Kinyarwanda, Odia (Oriya), Tatar, Turkmen and Uyghur. This expands our ability to find and evaluate sources in those languages.
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GD News
"The Grateful Dead Have Now Charted 100 Albums In The U.S."

"Even some highly successful groups don’t make it to 10 charting titles, and 100 is nearly unheard of" - https://www.forbes.com/sites/hughmcintyre/2020/02/14/the-grateful-dead-have-now-charted-100-albums-in-the-us/#1d599e1b1cf8

Enjoy. North America1000 10:11, 2 March 2020 (UTC)


 * Hey, that's a good one! Thanks!  I think I'll go ahead and add that to the Dave's Picks Volume 33 article.  — Mudwater (Talk) 00:20, 3 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Thanks. I figured this info had to be good to use somewhere. Thanks for your edit to improve the article! North America1000 14:03, 4 March 2020 (UTC)


 * New one: "Dead and Company Cancel Summer 2020 Tour" Rolling Stone. April 21, 2020.
 * Them's the breaks. North America1000 21:00, 23 April 2020 (UTC)


 * Yes. Sad but true.  Here's to better days ahead.  "P.S." Seen this?  — Mudwater (Talk) 00:21, 24 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Interesting, probably worth a read. Getting that deluxe version with the record would be cool; probably already sold out! North America1000 12:46, 24 April 2020 (UTC)


 * The deluxe edition appears to be still available, here. Though it's a bit pricey.  — Mudwater (Talk) 21:31, 24 April 2020 (UTC)

GD World Roundup – More GD News

They've always helped out, e.g. the Rex Foundation, and so, the Dead have kicked down again, now aligning themselves with two organizations that are helping out musicians during this time of pandemic, with a catchphrase, "Let ‘Em Know There’s A Little Help On The Way". Details below. Perhaps some of this could work its way into the main GD article. As a personal side note, check out starting at around 2:29:27 in the Foxboro video. I've always been a fan of Garcia interacting with the drummers, just one of those things with me. It may have something to do with how I used to position myself at shows up close at the front, with a clear view of Garcia and Hart, at an angle that allowed one to see both playing simultaneously, specifically checking out the interplay between them, as well as the others, of course. Yeah, that's the stuff! North America1000 02:52, 11 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Grateful Dead - Buffalo, NY 7/16/90 Fundraiser – Sweet Relief Musicians Fund
 * Grateful Dead - Foxboro 7/2/89 Fundraiser - MusiCares COVID-19 Relief Fund – Musicares Foundation Inc


 * Cool, thanks. Yeah, that killer summer 1989 tour.  Great stuff.  So, you would try to stand where, exactly?  Close to the stage, like in the middle, so you could see both Garcia and Hart?  Or more to the right side, i.e. stage left?  — Mudwater (Talk) 01:53, 12 June 2020 (UTC)
 * More stage left, pretty much right in front of the fat man, close, sometimes on the rail when I could get there, the vantage point of which allowed one to see Hart clearly as well. North America1000 07:07, 12 June 2020 (UTC)


 * Sounds great. But, how did you accomplish that, exactly?  Like, this is general admission we're talking about, right?  So, did you get to the venue the night before, so you'd be near the front of the line to get in?  And then not go to the bathroom for like 12 hours?  Not to over-analyze it at this late date, but I'm curious.  (It's actually sort of like a joke.  Q: How do you get a good view when you go to a Grateful Dead concert?  A: It's easy.  Just get really close to the stage, and stand in front of Jerry Garcia.  ) — Mudwater (Talk) 15:15, 12 June 2020 (UTC)
 * All at General admission shows. Other venues with paid seating up front, didn't work out so well. Sometimes would sneak down, but not too often with that. * It was easy to work up to the front at shows in the mid 80s and onward, before the Touch of Grey hype. Well, at least the touchheads did not break the scene. After the Touch hype calmed down, it was again pretty easy to get up front at general admission shows, at least on the west coast. Ultimately, it was the gangsta hippies in the 90s that ruined the scene. Then the Dead got all hardcore about no vending, no camping, etc. They had no choice, it was that or keep getting kicked out of venues. North America1000 15:19, 12 June 2020 (UTC)
 * * In the mid 80s, I was a teenager in high school working an almost full-time, low-paying job. Front row mail order tickets were out of my league...
 * Oh yeah, sometimes I would go to the line queue outside the show early, which made it easier to get up front, but not always. Once there, people would often save your space if you had to go pee, etc. Heads were often friendly that way, you know. North America1000 15:23, 12 June 2020 (UTC)
 * I learned a great deal about music from those guys just watching them. North America1000 15:24, 12 June 2020 (UTC)
 * As a comparison, at the second Portland Meadows show in 95 (Chuck Berry opened both shows!), the only one I went to out of the two-day run, it was too much of a bear to get to the front....just way too many bodies crammed together. So, I kicked it by the soundboard area. North America1000 15:26, 12 June 2020 (UTC)
 * You've seen this before, per previous messaging a while back, but here goes again anyway: Section 999999 !!!! North America1000 15:38, 12 June 2020 (UTC)


 * Ha ha, right. And thanks for explaining.  That all makes sense.  But, what do you mean by gangsta hippies?  — Mudwater (Talk) 16:03, 12 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Angry pseudo-hipppies that would scowl and frown at others, sort of like with a perma-frown. I noticed this more and more from around 93 and onward. Scammers, scalpers that would sell bunk, counterfeit tickets, that sort of thing. Folks with very bad attitudes, which was essentially opposite of the average head that I would encounter in the mid 80s. The parking lot scene got to be more of a lowlife scene with bad vibes, etc., on average, imo. North America1000 16:15, 12 June 2020 (UTC)

As an example, the media, heads, and others referred to the Dead's last tour in 95 as the "tour from hell" at times:
 * Salon article
 * SF Gate: See the "Summer: Tour from hell" section.
 * – North America1000 16:39, 12 June 2020 (UTC)


 * Yes, things did not end on an up note for the Dead and their fans. Somehow it's all part of the big picture, which of course included vast quantities of good vibes and great music.  Both of which are continuing to reverberate though through the galaxy, if I may be so bold as to say so.  — Mudwater (Talk) 20:32, 12 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Recap: Well, overall regarding the music, traveling diaspora, people, etc., there was much more light than darkness. Regarding energy continuing throughout space, The First Law of Thermodynamics states that "energy can be changed from one form to another, but it cannot be created or destroyed", so it's also possible that the energy has mutated... Anyway, ending on a bright note, after my note above denoting some of the darker sides of the "scene". More GD World roundup will likely occur here when I come across stuff. North America1000 06:32, 17 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Almost forgot, do you have any unique insights that others may have not noticed regarding the music, scene, etc? For example, I devised an opinion a while back that when Garcia is chilling with the drummers, the band/Garcia himself are more likely to be doing musically "well" compared to times when he's not checking out the drummers. Sort of a probability, of sorts. North America1000 06:35, 17 June 2020 (UTC)


 * Do I have any unique insights about the music, the scene, etc., you ask. That's a good question.  I was and am pretty much into the whole thing, but somehow nothing leaps to mind.  Let me ponder this further.    — Mudwater (Talk) 10:56, 18 June 2020 (UTC)
 * I've been on the bus since around mid 85, so that's my start with the whole schema. Caught a decent amount of live shows, that being actually inside the show, around 50. Sometimes I didn't get in, particularly when I was younger. At least the lot had nice food and drink! The boys played better in the midwest and east coast compared to the west coast in the 80s, and 90s too. North America1000 11:37, 18 June 2020 (UTC)


 * Speaking of the highly-regarded summer of '89, do you have a copy of Downhill from Here? Or, can you watch it some other way, like by borrowing it from the library, or something?  Cuz, it's really really good, man!  It would probably appeal to your sensibilities, I'm thinking.  — Mudwater (Talk) 01:49, 3 July 2020 (UTC)


 * Got it, seen it, go Alpine. I wish they would put out more of those View from the Vault videos, or similar. Hey, speaking about that spot that I mentioned earlier, where I would check out the band at times, it was sort of like what I read somewhere where Charlie Watts mentioned his view of Mick Jagger's rear end while drumming behind him all these years: the best view in the world! North America1000 02:26, 3 July 2020 (UTC)


 * Ha ha, good one. Hey, do you like Commander Cody and His Lost Planet Airmen?  Because their "new" album is coming out on July 24th.  Or you can get before then, here.  (They don't pay me to plug it, but they should.)  — Mudwater (Talk) 02:51, 3 July 2020 (UTC)
 * Never really got into them, but I'm also not aware of much of their stuff. Will have to look into it further sometime. North America1000 06:17, 3 July 2020 (UTC)


 * Their big hit single was "Hot Rod Lincoln", which is a rockabilly song, but they played a variety of country rock, and country and western. I admit they're not one of the more famous bands of that era.  This gets into the area of favorite bands other than the Grateful Dead.  I like a lot of other bands, but some of my faves include New Riders of the Purple Sage, the Allman Brothers Band, Hot Tuna, Cream, and Johnny Winter.  It's hard to narrow down, really.  — Mudwater (Talk) 10:02, 3 July 2020 (UTC)
 * "Son, you're gonna drive me to drinkin'..." Yeah, I'm familiar with the rest above. Sounds like an overview from Relix Magazine circa 1985 to 1990! I like all kinds of music, but gravitate toward jam bands, classic rock, some metal, hard rock, etc. Mostly jam bands, by far. The harder alternative stuff is cool too, Chili Peppers, REM, Soundgarden, Green Day, Nirvana, that sort of thing. There's a lot of bands I like a great deal, but don't listen to that often nowadays. Fact is, I don't listen to as much music as I used to 20 years ago at all. Still love music, though. "If you get confused, just listen to the music play". North America1000 10:48, 3 July 2020 (UTC)

In closing for this little run of intriguing comments, I'd like to add that Garcia's death was a phenomenal loss. The thing about Garcia, while he was the lead figure playing lead guitar in a "popular" rock band, despite the band not actually being popular within mainstream America, yet leading in live concert ticket sales for many years in a row, the guy had a plethora of musical knowledge, way more than most musicians I've come across, read about, etc. You've got the Dead, Garcia Band, Garcia and Grisman, NRPS, and more. The guy's mind was like an encyclopedia of historical American roots music: bluegrass, blues, rock and roll, gospel, Americana, country, jazz, you name it. I think some missed out on the depth of the guy's musical pedigree, since he was mainly popular per the Grateful Dead. North America1000 14:01, 5 July 2020 (UTC)


 * I agree! — Mudwater (Talk) 16:19, 5 July 2020 (UTC)

File:Cornell-5-8-77-LP-cover.jpg listed for discussion
A file that you uploaded or altered, File:Cornell-5-8-77-LP-cover.jpg, has been listed at Files for discussion. Please see the to see why it has been listed (you may have to search for the title of the image to find its entry). Feel free to add your opinion on the matter below the nomination. Thank you. ―Justin ( koavf ) ❤T☮C☺M☯ 07:15, 12 July 2020 (UTC)

The Fillmore List(s)
Hi Muddy, Being not yet familiar with the way WP-ers communicate, I want to thank you (as I did on my own talk-page) again for cleaning up my contributions on the 'Live at the Fillmore'-page. As I wanted to continue adding to the list, I first started reading all that is available on the Fillmore's on WP, and I noticed that there is already a (simpler) list of recordings made on the 'Fillmore East'-page. And, on second thought and to avoid double work, I'm gonna leave the 'Live at the Fillmore'-page as you left it. I think is more efficient that I check the list on the 'Fillmore East'-page and add any other albums there. I see also that there is no list at The 'Fillmore West'- or 'The (original) Fillmore'-pages. So, if I get it a bit right on the FE-list (please, check), then I might try to make a list on the FW-page. Thanks again for your help, and I'm looking forward to any more news from your side. MT.Misterioustraveller (talk) 12:55, 16 July 2020 (UTC)


 * Hello. Thanks for the notes, here and on your user talk page.  I would suggest that you proceed with what you're doing, and see how it works out.  If you have any questions, you can post them here in this user talk page section, and I might be able to answer them.  For discussions about the content of an article, it's best to post those on the talk page of the article, where other editors can see them and join in the discussion.  Also, I recommend that you check out the Tutorial.  Have fun.  — Mudwater (Talk) 22:19, 16 July 2020 (UTC)

GD old news roundup
Well now, here's some older stuff that I'm already aware of and have already read years ago, and it wouldn't surprise me if you have too. But just in case you haven't, check this out. I wonder if some of this should make its way into the main GD article? Hmmmm. North America1000 21:45, 16 July 2020 (UTC)

"And, of course, the Dead did it first, broadcasting shows on the radio in the 1970s and telecasting shows in the 1980s. Its 1985 New Year’s Eve pay-per-view broadcast drew at least a half million viewers, earning a 0.8 Nielsen rating."
 * "Call Them Hippies, But the Grateful Dead Were Tech Pioneers". Wired.

The Grateful Dead were exhausted in spring '95, Garcia most of all. Here's the band's story of those last days
 * "I won't see the end of the year": Backstage at Jerry Garcia and the Grateful Dead's final shows". Salon.

Thirty years after the Warlocks had played Magoo’s pizza parlor, they all needed to reassess what everything had come to.


 * "Ear Monitor Recordings From Jerry Garcia’s Final Show Surface". Jambase. – Other in-ear monitor recordings of the Dead are available, such as at the Internet Archive. Good stuff.

"There had been a big change in the band's monitoring setup by the spring of '93. The Dead had gone to an in-ear system and removed all amps and loudspeakers from the stage, a major move with profound implications. Though in-ears have become downright common today, in the early and mid '90s relatively few artists used them."
 * Grateful Dead Gear. (More pages are available by changing the page numbers upward in the url, e.g. p. 259, which has a nice photo of Garcia and his newish effects pedals arrangement.)

For starters, The Boys being among the pioneers in in-ear monitors could be included in both the main GD article as well as the In-ear monitor article. And that's just for starters, loc! North America1000 21:45, 16 July 2020 (UTC)

- - - No reply yet, eh? Boring ephemera? Hey, man, whaddya think? No worries, just curious if you have any thoughts about this stuff. If not, that's okay too. Cheeerrriooooo, North America1000 16:40, 28 August 2020 (UTC)


 * Hello! I had read your original post, and said to myself, "Self, that all sounds pretty interesting.  Let's come back here soon and read through those, or at least give them a serious skim."  Then I wandered off, with a distracted look on my face.  That was six weeks ago, it looks like.  So, thanks for the links.  I'll check those out soon.  Or at least that's Plan A.  I've been sort of discombobulated lately, by everything that's going on.  But it does help to spend some time on the important things, like the Grateful Dead.  P.S.  I got a copy of Grateful Dead Origins -- the regular paperback, not the special edition -- but I haven't read it yet.  That's one of the many things on my "to do" list.  I also found a couple of reviews of it, to add to its WP article.  I really like the quote that says, "This is a great graphic novel musical mash-up that does more than any Wikipedia page can do."    — Mudwater (Talk) 19:39, 28 August 2020 (UTC)


 * Okay, now I've read those articles, and I listened to a lot of the in-ear monitor recordings, too. Yes, it's all very interesting.  The Wired article about how the Dead pioneered so many things was quite enjoyable.  The Salon excerpt from David Browne's book was more downbeat, of course.  Garcia is a fascinating subject.  A brilliant figure in the history of rock music, he brought a lot of happiness to a  lot of people, for a combination of reasons.  Yet his own life was far from ideal, especially in the later years.  There's some kind of yin-yang thing at work, or something, but it's hard to figure out.  Anyway, thanks again for the links.  "P.S." I buy most of the GD CDs that come out, and some of the box sets too.  Lately I've been working my way through June 1976.  It's really great.  This was their first tour after their long break from touring, and they were really in top form.  The music is a bit more laid back than the 1977 stuff, so it's more relaxing to listen to.  Excellent recording by Betty Cantor-Jackson, too.  Yeah, great stuff.  Here's one of the shows from the box set, with decent black-and-white video, and quite nice sound.    — Mudwater (Talk) 22:05, 30 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Hey, thanks for the reply, and sorry to goad, but, hey, I got a reply! I may add some of the in-ear monitor stuff to the main GD article. North America1000 14:03, 31 August 2020 (UTC)


 * I'd say go for it. In fact, feel free to start rewriting the whole article, and I'm not kidding.  Further reading:  Talk:Grateful Dead.  — Mudwater (Talk) 21:35, 31 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Duly noted regarding the ear monitors. It is on my list of things to do, a long list, so it may take time. Rewriting the entire article, now that's a whole new can of worms that would take considerable time. Thanks for the link; I wasn't aware of that discussion. North America1000 06:18, 2 September 2020 (UTC)

James Booker
You obviously know your stuff; are you aware of the few gigs where New Orleans pianist James Booker sat in with JGB? It was probably not quite the right choice when Jerry was looking for a more stable keyboard player than Nicky Hopkins :-). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=etsGKEPCnYU

Finney1234 (talk) 16:53, 23 October 2020 (UTC)


 * Hello! No, I was not aware of Mr. Booker's contributions to the Jerry Garcia Band.  So, I'm not such an expert after all!  But I have done some fun stuff, as you said, at least within the context of Wikipedia.   — Mudwater (Talk) 18:59, 23 October 2020 (UTC)


 * It may be that I actually learned that from the Wikipedia article on James Booker, although the Garcia sentence there needs cleanup (I'm not totally sure what the sentence is intended to say, so I'm not fixing it). I have a friend who lives in NOLA who is a major James Booker fan.


 * I like your Seastones photo. I only found out recently that Ned Lagin had toured the east coast with the Dead in 1974; I had assumed that the "Seastones" performances were restricted to the 1974 Winterland shows (which I attended two of :-) ). Finney1234 (talk) 21:27, 23 October 2020 (UTC)


 * That's great. You're not in The Grateful Dead Movie, are you?  P.S. "Seastones" is included in a few GD CDs.  I guess I should add those to the Ned Lagin article.  — Mudwater (Talk) 21:47, 23 October 2020 (UTC)


 * I didn't notice myself in the movie, but I didn't do a frame-by-frame careful inspection. I was actually working at Tower Records in SF at the time; I'd bought a ticket to one show of the run, and liked it, so when someone came into the store trying to sell two extra tickets for another night I snapped them up, and sold the 2nd one at the door. All transactions at cost ($5 :-)). Note the interesting misspelling on this ticket copy! https://www.collectorsweekly.com/stories/5661-grateful-dead-winterland-ticket-10-20-7. Finney1234 (talk) 22:11, 23 October 2020 (UTC)

American Beauty addition
Yer welcome ;) --Spoondivy (talk) 20:17, 7 November 2020 (UTC)

New Page Patrol December Newsletter
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It has been a productive year for New Page Patrol as we've roughly cut the size of the New Page Patrol queue in half this year. We have been fortunate to have a lot of great work done by who was the reviewer of the most pages and redirects this past year. Thanks and credit go to and  who join Rosguill in repeating in the top 10 from last year. Thanks to, , and who all got the NPR permission this year and joined the top 10. Also new to the top ten is DannyS712 bot III, programmed by which has helped to dramatically reduce the number of redirects that have needed human patrolling by patrolling certain types of redirects (e.g. for differences in accents) and by also patrolling editors who are on on the redirect whitelist.
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