User talk:Musterdman

Theater Talk
You need to add sufficient encyclopedic content to justify removing the redirect and the content needs to be supported by reliable sources. Slywriter (talk) 23:06, 22 June 2022 (UTC)

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Happy editing! Cheers, Slywriter (talk) 23:06, 22 June 2022 (UTC)


 * Hello, The Theater Talk page keeps getting deleted and the redirect to CUNY TV is being restored. The show Theater Talk is an independent non profit, and CUNY was only the television studio where it was filmed. How do I fix this? What does it mean to be "supported by reliable sources" I am the source of the show itsel as I am the web team of Theater Talk Productions Inc. Musterdman (talk) 18:23, 24 June 2022 (UTC)


 * You are not a source, you are an editor with a conflict of interest. A wikipedia article must be  verifiable by  reliable sources. Information being true is not enough. The most important step is establishing [[WP:N|notability as defined by  wikipedia standards. Please review the links contained and  this guide may be helpful. Slywriter (talk) 19:05, 24 June 2022 (UTC)

June 2022
Hello, I'm JalenFolf. I wanted to let you know that one or more of your recent contributions to Theater Talk have been undone because they appeared to be promotional. Advertising and using Wikipedia as a "soapbox" are against Wikipedia policy and not permitted; Wikipedia articles should be written objectively, using independent sources, and from a neutral perspective. Take a look at the welcome page to learn more about Wikipedia. Thank you. Jalen Folf  (talk)  21:18, 24 June 2022 (UTC)


 * The answer is not what you just did. Editing logged out to avoid scrutiny will likely lead to a ban on editing. Slywriter (talk) 23:47, 24 June 2022 (UTC)
 * I did not log out to avoid scrutiny, obviously I'm the same person. There is nothing wrong with this entry, and its not promotional. This isnt a game, why can't you just work with me to get the page published? The show is a cancelled talk show in history and it doesnt make money, its strictly for the information of the public on a historical document of theater in New York City. I really don't understand why you are making it this difficult. I will try publishing it again now that I am logged in. Pease don't delete the page. The show does not belong to CUNY TV and it doesnt belong in a redirect there. Its falsely redirected. Musterdman (talk) 00:36, 25 June 2022 (UTC)

Hello, I noticed that you may have recently made edits to Theater Talk while logged out. Wikipedia's policy on multiple accounts usually does not allow the use of both an account and an IP address by the same person in the same setting and doing so may result in your account being blocked from editing. Additionally, making edits while logged out reveals your IP address, which may allow others to determine your location and identity. If this was not your intention, please remember to log in when editing. Thank you. Jalen Folf  (talk)  00:28, 25 June 2022 (UTC)


 * What difference does it make? I'm trying to get this published. If you have to be logged in to publish the page then why is it available to do while logged out? Musterdman (talk) 00:38, 25 June 2022 (UTC)


 * Then follow the rules of WP:COI and also provide independent sourcing. Repeatedly adding the page and wasting everyone else's time is not going to make it happen. Slywriter (talk) 01:01, 25 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Im not repeatedly adding the page without making adjustments, I am trying to comply to the rules. the content im adding is a simple paragraph about what the show is. I cannot understand what the conflict of interest is. I removed the link to the theater talk website and reposted it because i thought that was the conflict. then you removed it because i was not logged in? A petty discrepancy. But because of your brevity i can only guess that youre saying there is still a conflict? if you dont want time wasted, then why dont you help me by telling me specifically what about my page is conflicting with your rules? I have listed the page with a citation to Thirteen WNET where the show aired. that corroborates the real existence of the show, a PBS station website showing the listing of the show is not relaible? then what is? there was never anything promotional about the post. my citations are proof of the shows independent existence. CUNY TV which you redirect the page to is totally innacurate as a source. thats a television studio where it was filmed, irrelevant to where it aired on tv. That makes no sense to me. You could tell me in plain english how im not complying, but instead you decided to treat me like im an idiot who is trying to get away with some crime. and then just drop a link to this policy page that gives me no clue as to what I'm not complying with. I'm not a lawyer, Im trying to post a page about a real show. I understand you have policies and this is Wikipedia and has to be verified, but I simply cannot see what is wrong with what im posting. Its a small blurb, what could be wrong with it? then I will be adding the guests that appeared on the show and other info about its history like any other wikipedia entry ive ever seen. Tell me what i need to do please so this can be over. Musterdman (talk) 19:20, 25 June 2022 (UTC)


 * Reading the WP:COI policy would be a good start. Secondly, provide independent sources that establish notability, not existence. Thirteen establishes existence, it does not tell us anything about the show being notable. Think NYT and others who may have reviewed the show. Wikipedia is not for any company or show to tell people what it wants to tell us, the rest of the internet exists for that. Slywriter (talk) 21:03, 25 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Ok, so in the text I mentioned that the show is a two time Emmy award winner, and it was on the air for 22 years. it documents Broadway theater and interviews hundreds of world reknowned stars. thats not notable? I guess what youre saying is the citations have to be like press clippings? I have an NYT article. When you first messaged me you said to make an encyclopedic entry, an encyclopedia is a book of factual information about the world, and citations are factual evidence. Press is by definition a promotional tool. So everything your saying to me is counterintuitive in terms of your reasons for deleting the post. notability is totally subjective, thats what the rest of the internet is about. This process and conversation with you is very Kafkaesque. Musterdman (talk) 13:51, 26 June 2022 (UTC)
 * My other question is about he conflict of interest. I read the policy and truthfully a lot of it went over my head. its long and verbose and doesnt seems to address the point until it finally talks about what the COI is halfway down the page. So i revealed to you that I am the webmaster for the show theater talk, is that why you are deleting the page? because i worked for the show at one time? @JalenFolf stated that my entry was welcome, so I conclude that I can make the entry, as long as its not promotional in some way. I attempted to write the article in a way that is completely factual. I dont want to waste peoples time here. if i write the article and cite the NYT article and the listing of the show on Thirteen WNET is that enough citation to get the page published? I can't see what the conflict is, its a really basic text to describe the show. You say dont be promotional but include an NYT article, which once promoted the show, can you see why this is very confusing? Musterdman (talk) 14:03, 26 June 2022 (UTC)
 * By association with the show, you have a conflict of interest. This is pretty clearly defined in the 1st paragraph of the policy. This conflict can cloud judgement of what is notable and due. In particular, the last line of the article you keep adding is that it's now available on youtube. That gives the impression the goal of creating a wikipedia entry is to promote the availability of the show.
 * Wikipedia does not define all press as promotional. We look for whether an article was written independent of the subject and whether the publisher has clear policies that distinguish news, opinions and advertorials. The NYT is known to distinguish between news and opinion and is not known for advertorials, so it's a relatively safe bet that their articles can be cited to show notability of a show. Best practice is two to three sources that are independent of the subject. Thirteen clearly does not meet that as they broadcast the show, so NYT plus one or two other independent sources would be best way to show notability. Facts and existence are separate from notability. We want to know that others unrelated to the show are talking about it. Slywriter (talk) 14:37, 26 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Ok I understand now what you mean by sources that are not promotional or advertorial. In the text that I revised last, there was no mention of the youtube. I made a revision to reduce the likelihood of a promotional air to the information. But it still got removed, I'm guessing because of a lack of the type of citation youre looking for. I just wanted to remind you that there was a revision and im not just reposting the same thing over and over. I will work on the sources and try again. This is the revised text:
 * Theater Talk was the weekly interview/discussion television series, focusing on the world of the stage. It aired on PBS station,Thirteen WNET in New York City from 1996 to 2018. It was also syndicated on public television venues around the country both on TV and online. The guests included: actors, writers, composers, directors, critics and others who contributed to the theater in New York, on Broadway and beyond.
 * Awards: Theater Talk won New York Emmy Awards in 2017 and 2019 for Best Interview/Discussion Series. Musterdman (talk) 15:16, 26 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Think you are good with that text plus some sourcing. Slywriter (talk) 15:27, 26 June 2022 (UTC)

Managing a conflict of interest
Hello, Musterdman. We welcome your contributions, but if you have an external relationship with the people, places or things you have written about on the page Theater Talk, you may have a conflict of interest (COI). Editors with a conflict of interest may be unduly influenced by their connection to the topic. See the conflict of interest guideline and FAQ for organizations for more information. We ask that you:


 * avoid editing or creating articles about yourself, your family, friends, colleagues, company, organization or competitors;
 * propose changes on the talk pages of affected articles (you can use the request edit template);
 * disclose your conflict of interest when discussing affected articles (see Conflict of interest);
 * avoid linking to your organization's website in other articles (see Spam);
 * do your best to comply with Wikipedia's content policies.

In addition, you are required by the Wikimedia Foundation's terms of use to disclose your employer, client, and affiliation with respect to any contribution which forms all or part of work for which you receive, or expect to receive, compensation. See Paid-contribution disclosure.

Also, editing for the purpose of advertising, publicising, or promoting anyone or anything is not permitted. Thank you. Jalen Folf  (talk)  21:18, 24 June 2022 (UTC)

Theater Talk moved to draftspace
It appears that you may have a conflict of interest with the subject of Theater Talk, and as such you should submit this article to be published through the Articles for Creation process. Before editing the article further, please first disclose on your user page and on the article's Talk page whether you have received money to write this or other articles on Wikipedia, or if you have any other kind of conflict of interest concerning the subject. I've moved your draft to draftspace (with a prefix of " " before the article title) where you can incubate the article with minimal disruption. Before submitting, you should make sure that the article is fully compliant with Wikipedia’s neutrality and verifiability policies, as well as our notability guidelines. When you’re ready, please click on the "Submit your draft for review!" button at the top of the page. This process is encouraged, but optional. If you choose not to participate in it, you can remove the AfC template and move the article back to mainspace. You should also consider reaching out to the Teahouse for additional feedback and aid from experienced editors. signed,Rosguill talk 21:12, 27 June 2022 (UTC)

Conflict of Interest Statement
As the attempting editor for the page Theater Talk I would like to declare that I don't have a conflict of interest. Earlier when the article was rejected I think because I disclosed that I am the web team of theater talk, I did not expand on that. I'm new to making Wikipedia articles and didn't know about conflicts of interest. The reality of the situation is that I am a long time fan of Theater Talk, and a Broadway enthusiast. I call myself the Web team because Theater Talk was a low budget, non-profit that needed advice about how to maintain a web presence. I offered my help and advice to them urging the producers to create profiles across the web such as facebook fan pages, improving their youtube presence and so forth. I helped with this free of charge because I wanted their show to remain relevant as it was on the air in the 90s and into the present technological revolution. Now that the show has ended I am advocating for them in the same way, urging them to build their archive, and use records online that seal them into the history of theater. So for this reason I think they should be listed on Wikipedia. I receive no payment from them to simply type up their Wikipedia page, I was under the impression that Wikipedia was open source and not difficult to use, but in fact it has been very difficult to get a straight answer from the people removing the page. I would like the page to be published and I am looking for guidance to tell me what is wrong, what the specific conflict of interest is based on, and how to get the page published. Musterdman (talk) 17:07, 2 July 2022 (UTC)


 * That qualifies as a conflict of interest because of your close connexion to the subject as a volunteer working for them. (Conflicts of interest need not be financial in nature.) —Jéské Couriano  v^&lowbar;^v  a little blue Bori 14:54, 4 July 2022 (UTC)
 * Ok how should I resolve it? Musterdman (talk) 15:49, 4 July 2022 (UTC)
 * I recommend that you declare your conflict of interest on your now blank userpage. Cullen328 (talk) 16:51, 4 July 2022 (UTC)
 * So a declaration of it helps to get it published or just will keep it from being published? Musterdman (talk) 20:26, 4 July 2022 (UTC)

Theater Talk draft suggestions
I am not a volunteer reviewer, so I won’t speculate on whether your draft article is notable. However I did notice that you have numerous one-sentence paragraphs that begin with Theater Talk. Could some of those paragraphs be combined, with fewer uses of the series title? I have copied 4 such paragraphs, leaving out the references to make this post easier. (The references would need to remain in your article draft.) Instead of:


 * Theater Talk moved its production to CUNY TV in 1998.


 * Theater Talk ‘s broadcasters expanded in 1999 to include WGBH, Boston’s PBS station.


 * Theater Talk began national syndication in 2008 (in partnership with CUNY TV) to PBS and public TV stations across the USA.


 * Theater Talk won the NY Emmy Award in 2017 for “Best Interview/Discussion Program.”

You may want to write:


 * Theater Talk moved its production to CUNY TV in 1998. Starting in 1999 the series was broadcast on WGBH, Boston’s PBS station. In 2008, in partnership with CUNY TV, national syndication began to PBS and public TV stations across the Untied States,


 * The series won the NY Emmy Award for Best Interview/Discussion Program in 2017.

Also, when you give a cite to a PDF of the New York Emmy Awards it would be helpful to give the page number of the PDF document, to make it easier for readers to more easily find where the information can be found.

Best wishes on your project. Karenthewriter (talk) 22:00, 4 July 2022 (UTC)


 * Thank you thats very helpful, I'll definitely make these changes Musterdman (talk) 22:51, 4 July 2022 (UTC)