User talk:Mvcg66b3r/Archives/2023/July

not vandalism
Your revert of my edit at WVUE-DT contains a link to some anti-vandalism tool, so it appears to me you thought, in error, that my edit was vandalism. Please reply at discussion opened at Talk:WVUE-DT. --Doncram (talk,contribs) 23:40, 2 July 2023 (UTC)

WSJV 28 South Bend
WSJV 28 South Bend (Elkhart) Indiana on June 29th at 11am changed their digital channel from 30 to 31. They have been posting an on screen message about this before many programs for some time now. And yes, it's the same digital channel (31) as WNIT 34 PBS. I watch 28 from my location and indeed this has taken place. I would not edit or change any information I was absolutely not sure of. I suggest you use 'Your Sandbox' before correcting my entries..... Cmoebowl (talk) 17:47, 2 July 2023 (UTC)


 * WSJV's main channel is on WSBT (RF 29); DT2/DT3 are on WNIT (RF 31); DT4 is on WHME (RF 36). You should really check RabbitEars.info or best yet ask . Mvcg66b3r (talk) 17:58, 2 July 2023 (UTC)
 * There is 'no' signal at all on digital 30 for WSJV, anymore, NONE. They moved their digital channel to 31 (apparently shared) and now on 28 sub channels 28.2 Crime, 28.3 Mystery, 28.5 Quest all are now digital channel 31. I was not wrong. Cmoebowl (talk) 19:39, 2 July 2023 (UTC)
 * There's still a signal on RF 30, you just need an ATSC 3.0 receiver or converter box. Mvcg66b3r (talk) 19:41, 2 July 2023 (UTC)
 * 28.1 & 28.6 digital 29
 * 28.2, 28.3, 28.5 digital 31 (new)
 * 28.4 & 28.7 digital 36 Cmoebowl (talk) 19:52, 2 July 2023 (UTC)
 * For people without ATSC 3.0 there is no signal. If that's your reason for keeping 30 and not listing 31 then specify that as such. Not listing 31 for the folks without ATSC 3.0 would be a great disservice. I will not contribute to this site any longer until such time the correct information is added in detail, by you of course... Cmoebowl (talk) 20:00, 2 July 2023 (UTC)
 * The way we handle ATSC 3.0 host stations is typified by something like WSTR-TV. The infobox contains the technical information for the station—in this case, the ATSC 3.0 service—because that is still the licensed channel for the station. There are two tables in the Subchannels category, for the subchannels it provides in 1.0 (with column for host station!) and a second table of the 3.0 services transmitted.
 * There needed to be some different words in that article, which I've just done. However, the way the article is structured now is the correct way to do it. Sammi Brie  (she/her • t • c) 21:07, 2 July 2023 (UTC)
 * "He's been editing WSJV but keeps getting reverted"??? Liar, Liar, LIAR!!! I did one (1) edit and that was all! You changed it and I have not touched it since. Can't believe someone like you is in charge. I am out of here... Cmoebowl (talk) 23:15, 2 July 2023 (UTC)
 * @Cmoebowl The user who wrote that message, User:Gladstonemofan, was a sockpuppet. You can safely ignore it. Sammi Brie  (she/her • t • c) 02:39, 3 July 2023 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free image File:Bumpin 87.7 logo 2022.jpg
Thanks for uploading File:Bumpin 87.7 logo 2022.jpg. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

Note that any non-free images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described in section F5 of the criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. --B-bot (talk) 17:08, 7 July 2023 (UTC)

Karamo (talk show)
So I noticed a month age that the Karamo Show has yet to be created and I put that on the Maury (talk show) talk page and have not got a reply, could you help do something about this, or talk to users that can create the article? OWaunTon (talk) 15:13, 5 July 2023 (UTC)

I wanted to know why affiliate channels on the sidebar are "copy-edit", |as done in your edit on WFOR when other stations like WSVN have their substations in their respective sidebars? Streetbuilding (talk) 14:33, 6 July 2023 (UTC)


 * You replying to me on accident. OWaunTon (talk) 14:38, 6 July 2023 (UTC)
 * and Ask . Mvcg66b3r (talk) 15:06, 6 July 2023 (UTC)
 * On Karamo? OWaunTon (talk) 15:12, 6 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Yeah, she might be able to help you on that. Mvcg66b3r (talk) 15:13, 6 July 2023 (UTC)
 * She hasn't responded yet. OWaunTon (talk) 17:29, 6 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Give her time. She might be busy on other articles. Mvcg66b3r (talk) 19:14, 6 July 2023 (UTC)
 * @OWaunTon Just filed a request for undeletion. There was a page there deleted because a sockpuppet made it, so it'll likely go to draftspace first and then I can figure out what's next. Sammi Brie  (she/her • t • c) 16:24, 8 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Well someone needs to fix that, darn sockpuppets. OWaunTon (talk) 22:55, 8 July 2023 (UTC)
 * @OWaunTon Karamo (talk show) now exists. Sammi Brie  (she/her • t • c) 20:33, 9 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you so much. OWaunTon (talk) 21:25, 9 July 2023 (UTC)

Reversion at WJOS-LD
You posted on my talk page, suggesting I contact you if I thought you made a mistake. So I'm here to explain why I un-reverted you. And I'd like to preface this by stating that I have no special interest in the station—I'd never heard of it until today, when it showed up under my article alerts due to my involvement with WikiProject West Virginia. I'm familiar with the Pomeroy—Mason area, but not generally concerned with minor local TV stations broadcasting mainly religious content. My interest is solely due to the belief that the article was wrongly nominated for deletion, and that even minor clean-up or improvements would make that more obvious. As the person who nominated the article for deletion, I think you should be cautious about reverting attempts to improve the article beyond the state it was in when you nominated it.

But as to the article itself—I think at the outset it's hard to imagine that a television station in operation for twenty-some years (perhaps intermittently, but that would require more research) isn't notable enough for at least a short article on Wikipedia. After all, over the course of that time it's had the opportunity to reach tens of thousands of viewers. But Wikipedia has guidelines for helping to assess the notability of various subjects, and I believe the one that applies here is the one stated at Wikiproject Television: "in general, any television station which produces original content and is licensed by a national government (e.g., the FCC in the United States) is presumed to be notable."

WJOS appears to have met these criteria during its operation, and is therefore entitled to a presumption of notability. It does not matter that the station is no longer in operation; notability is not temporary. A second argument made in the nomination is that there were no sources; but there were two sources listed, though not cited, in the article, and having investigated them I found that they could easily be cited to show 1) that the station was licensed by the FCC from the 1990's until 2023 (this information also indicated the owner and provided various technical details about the station); and 2) what content the station broadcast.

In your reversion you argued that none of the sources I cited are reliable, independent sources, and that therefore they and everything cited to them can be deleted. But that's not the case: there's not one valid reason for deleting the citation to the FCC's licensing data for WJOS; the fact that it contains largely technical details is not a reason for deleting it, when it's being cited for precisely the information that it includes. It's certainly true that the station's former web site isn't an independent source; but see WP:PRIMARY:

"A primary source may be used on Wikipedia only to make straightforward, descriptive statements of facts that can be verified by any educated person with access to the primary source but without further, specialized knowledge. For example, an article about a musician may cite discographies and track listings published by the record label, and an article about a novel may cite passages to describe the plot, but any interpretation needs a secondary source."

The questions here are, "what programming did the station broadcast?" and "did it broadcast original programming?", i.e. not merely rebroadcast material from other sources. The station's main page and broadcast schedule are perfectly good sources to describe what kind of programming it broadcast: CBN network shows, along with original programming consisting of local news hosted by the station owner's wife, religious programs and gospel music from local sources (such as churches in Pomeroy and Ripley), and local high school sports (Wahama, Gallia Academy, Meigs County Schools).

The station owner's obituary is not news, and I make no claim that he was personally notable. However, it's perfectly competent to demonstrate that he died in 2017, and the fact that it comes from a newspaper (even an online one) gives it more credibility than if it were from the funeral home's website. It also indicates that the person listed as the last owner of the station's license, Brenda Barnhart, was the station owner's widow (she's listed as executrix on the FCC page, which also tells us that William Barnhart was still the owner at the time of his death). It also states the general purpose of the station—not that it was necessary to quote the obituary; merely that it's a statement from the past/former owners of when the station began operating within the range of dates listed on the FCC's page, and what it was meant to be for. And again, primary sources are perfectly competent for these purposes.

Would it be better to have articles from local print newspapers discussing WJOS? Of course. But as I'm sure you realize, a low-power television station with a very limited reach in a rural area is unlikely to be mentioned in national media. And local media are not easy to search—while most of them have an online news presence, relatively few of them have large newsrooms or searchable online archives of news stories dating back to 1993/1997 (when the license for the station was applied for/when it began broadcasting). That makes it difficult to retrieve additional sources that could well exist—and which are likely to exist—without long research trips to local libraries.

I cited the sources I could find quickly in order to make basic improvements to the article: citing the existence and nature of the station to sources that demonstrated what they were. They should be sufficient for the article to survive AfD; anyone is free to improve the article further or replace the sources with better ones—and as WP:BEFORE clearly states, there is no deadline for improving articles. Simply deleting the sources and reverting to an earlier and unsatisfactory state is not appropriate. But even without any changes, WP:BEFORE says that you must attempt to determine whether sources exist—not merely whether you can find them online.

It is almost certain that WJOS is mentioned in various articles from local newspapers—the Daily Register, Daily Sentinel, Daily Tribune—perhaps even the Athens Messenger or Herald-Dispatch. It could be mentioned in the news of other television stations from the area. But all of these would require a lot of research to locate and retrieve, and in many cases they have no searchable online archives; it is inappropriate to conclude that the stories do not exist merely because they cannot be quickly located in a web search, when it is fairly certain that they do exist, and could be retrieved if one merely had enough time to search for them all. Because it is fairly certain that WJOS is sufficiently notable to support a short article—just a few paragraphs summarizing when it operated and what programming it broadcast, as it did following my edits—the nomination for deletion should be withdrawn. P Aculeius (talk) 20:52, 10 July 2023 (UTC)

The Mel Robbins Show and Nick Cannon (talk show)
Could you or contact someone how can help make those articles although Mel Robbins articles has the show, Nick Cannon doesn't. OWaunTon (talk) 01:20, 19 July 2023 (UTC)