User talk:Mvr24/Cornell Big Red Wrestling

=Discussions= Please add topics to this section if there is something you want to discuss that is more general than the main article sections.

Intro Section
The Cornell Big Red wrestling team represents Cornell University of Ithaca, New York. For the past nineteen years, Rob Koll has served as the Head Coach for the Big Red squad.[1] Koll has led the team to five top-five finishes in the NCAA Division I wrestling tournament, including second place finishes in 2010 and 2011. The 2010 and 2011 finishes were the best ever for an Ivy League team.[2] In 2012, Cornell wrestling finished fourth in the NCAA tournament, while crowning three individual national champions Kyle Dake (157lbs), Steve Bosak (184lbs) and Cam Simaz (197lbs).[3] This was the first time in program history when there were multiple national champions (3) in the same year.[4]. Additionally, Kyle Dake went on to be the only wrestler in U.S. history to capture three individual national championships in different weight classes (141lbs, 149lbs & 157lbs).[5] Outside of the NCAA tournament, Cornell Wrestling also obtained ten consecutive Ivy League titles and six consecutive Eastern Intercollegiate Wrestling Association titles in 2012.[6] These remain the longest streaks in wrestling history for their respective divisions.[7] [8] Koll has coached NCAA champions Kyle Dake (2010, 2011 & 2012), Cam Simaz (2012), Steve Bosak (2012), Troy Nickerson (2009), Jordan Leen (2008), Travis Lee (wrestler) (2003 & 2005), and David Hirsh (1994).[9] Along with these accomplishments, Koll has coached fourty-five All-Americans during his reign as head coach.[10] As of 2012, Koll coached National Champions for five consecutive years (2008-2012) and All-Americans for twelve consecutive years (2001-2012).[11] Smb376 (talk) 14:26, 4 October 2012 (UTC)

Final Proofing and Upload
We should all go over the article one last time and probably upload it to the main article page. Check for grammar, links, etc. Mishumania (talk) 11:12, 4 October 2012 (UTC)
 * I have moved everything over to the main article page so please make any further edits there. Mishumania (talk) 11:12, 4 October 2012 (UTC)

Dupes in references
Right now we are at 20 something references but a lot of them are duplicates. Shouldn't we just be citing the same reference number instead of creating a new one with the same link? I'm going to try and fix this. Mishumania (talk) 16:46, 3 October 2012 (UTC)

More pictures?
Were we able to get any more pictures to use? If we do a Friedman center section then we should have a pic of it. Also might be cool to have a pic of the big red man mascot guy since we talk about him in the marketing section. Mishumania (talk) 16:27, 3 October 2012 (UTC)

Marketing Section
Under Rob Koll's direction, Cornell Wrestling has been marketed through some of the most notable newspapers and wrestling cites: including The New York Times, USA Today, The Wall Street Journal, The Cornell Daily Sun, Ithaca Journal, themat.com, wrestlingreport.com, flowrestling.com, Youtube, Facebook, Twitter and many more. With over 14,000 likes on Facebook and nearly 4,000 Twitter followers, Cornell Wrestling remains one of the most followed Division-1 wrestling programs in the country. Koll accomplishes this through a number of means; however, as of fall in 2010 he invented a wrestling mascot known as Redman. While the mascot for Cornell University is the Big Red Bear, Koll felt the need to create a mascot solely for the wrestling team. His appearance is representative of the sport itself with red spandex's covering from head to toe, coupled with a white Cornell Wrestling singlet. Additional attributes include: sunglasses, Cornell C tattoo, wrestling shoes and wrestling headgear. Although Redman's identity remains secret, he promotes the program through his acrobatic dance moves at wrestling events and in Youtube videos. Koll specifically markets wrestling matches using Redman in commercials posted on Facebook and Youtube. In November of 2010, The Cornell Daily Sun interviewed Redman asking him 10 questions about his originality and purpose. Smb376 (talk) 20:09, 29 September 2012 (UTC)

Aside from Redman, Facebook and Twitter, Koll continues to utilize his marketing and advertising skills in a variety of ways. In July of 2011, Koll helped market the dairy industry within Cornell University’s College of Agriculture and Life Sciences. Around this time, CALS was granted permission from the “Got Milk?” campaign to promote the cognitive and physical health benefits of milk on Cornell’s campus through their modeled posters. Koll took this opportunity to pose holding a glass of chocolate milk in the wrestling room, along with wearing a chocolate “Got Milk” mustache. His poster was spread to different locations on campus. On these posters, Koll explains that the Cornell wrestling team drinks chocolate milk as a post-workout mix to help replenish necessary nutrients for quick recovery. Smb376 (talk) 20:10, 29 September 2012 (UTC)


 * I think we should also talk about how Koll has used fundraising/marketing/social media to lure recruits away from state schools and to Cornell, who doesn't offer athletic scholarships. It is unique to this wrestling program and a main reason for its success. I found this link on Koll's fundraising: http://www.athleticmanagement.com/2010/12/01/at_cornell_social_media_spreads_wrestling_message/index.php and also this article could help: http://www.ohiortc.com/article/5279-Fundraising-as-Important-as-Mat-Work Mvr24 (talk) 20:50, 30 September 2012 (UTC)


 * I switched the name of this section from 'Team Marketing' to 'Team Marketing and Fundraising' and was going to add a paragraph on Koll's fundraising efforts and the fan base he has amassed for Cornell wrestling. Mvr24 (talk) 18:03, 1 October 2012 (UTC)

Side Box
The side box on our page right now is rather sparse. Check out other sports teams and make notes here of what else we should add. Mishumania (talk) 17:05, 25 September 2012 (UTC)

Also have to figure out seating capacity of the Friedman Center (Cornell Big Red Wrestling venue) at Cornell University and mention that it is the only free standing wrestling center in the nation (Source?) Maggie Remsen
 * Here is an article I found with all the info about the Friedman Center http://www.news.cornell.edu/Chronicle/03/1.23.03/wrestling.html. Capacity is 1,100 seats. I will put it in the side-box. Mishumania (talk) 20:20, 25 September 2012 (UTC)

Okay perfect- this information can be put into the side box that already exists on the Cornell Big Red wrestling Wikipedia page (Maggie Remsen (talk)

I discovered that the side box we have right now is a template someone already created so we can find out more info and fill it out more. The template can be found here Template:Infobox college wrestling team. We can edit it in our code. Mishumania (talk) 20:38, 25 September 2012 (UTC)
 * I added the logo Mishumania (talk) 21:13, 25 September 2012 (UTC)

Friedman Center
I found a lot of really good information on the Friedman Center from the New York Times article (http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/15/sports/15wrestling.html). This article and the Friedman Center in general are a huge part of Cornell wrestling and symbolic of the program's fundraising and marketing. I think we should put either a section on the Friedman Center or a whole side box with a picture. What do you guys think?

The information I found: Donor information, mat square footage, fan capacity, facility amenities, general facts Mvr24 (talk) 14:24, 1 October 2012 (UTC)

Specifics:
 * 6300 sq. ft. mat space (allows for the entire team to pair off during practice)
 * 1,100 fan capacity
 * Opened in 2002
 * $4.5 Million cost of building
 * Only free-standing wrestling center at its opening
 * Stephen Friedman gave lead gift  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mvr24 (talk • contribs) 14:30, 1 October 2012 (UTC)


 * We can add a quick little section on the Friedman Center. I think it's notable enough and has some interesting facts like maggie noted. This can be a future enhancement to the article Mishumania (talk) 10:32, 4 October 2012 (UTC)

Changing the "W" of Wrestling to Upper Case
Been trying to change the w in the word "wrestling" in the title to upper case but can't figure out how. Any ideas? Mishumania (talk) 16:15, 3 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Actually I think the w is supposed to be small. Everything I have seen so far on other articles confirms this Mishumania (talk) 21:09, 25 September 2012 (UTC)
 * I also found some guidelines in the Category:College wrestling teams in the United States confirming this Mishumania (talk) 16:15, 3 October 2012 (UTC)

Should we be consistent and lowercase the "w" every time we right wrestling? The first line of the introduction says Cornell Big Red Wrestling. I think we should make it all lowercase since our title is like that Mvr24 (talk) 18:52, 30 September 2012 (UTC)
 * I agree it should be lower case Mishumania (talk) 16:15, 3 October 2012 (UTC)

User:Piotrus told us in his Observer Feedback that no words besides the beginning should be capitalized. So we were right in this instance. Mvr24 (talk) 22:25, 3 October 2012 (UTC)

Links To/From Other Articles

 * Eastern Intercollegiate Wrestling Association
 * Cornell University Main Article, Athletics section http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cornell_University#Athletics. Wrestling is currently not mentioned. We should reach out to the editors of that article and ask them if we can include a link to our page.
 * Cornell Big Red This is a general article about all the sports teams and there is a small section on Men's Wrestling. We could link this to our article. Should reach out to them as well Mishumania (talk) 21:04, 25 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Collegiate Wrestling Mishumania (talk) 21:04, 25 September 2012 (UTC)
 * NCAA Wrestling Team Championship Mishumania (talk) 21:18, 25 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Wrestling Mishumania (talk) 21:43, 25 September 2012 (UTC)

Other Schools' Wrestling Pages
Some dedicated wrestling pages for other schools Mishumania (talk) 21:41, 25 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Rutgers Scarlet Knights wrestling
 * Iowa State Cyclones wrestling
 * Oklahoma State Cowboys wrestling

It is interesting that Penn State wrestling does not have a Wikipedia page as they won the National Championship over Cornell last year. Where do you guys think we should add these sites within our article? Mvr24 (talk) 17:34, 29 September 2012 (UTC)


 * We don't need to add them to our article. I saw them more as a source of inspiration for formatting, what to include, sections, etc. Mishumania (talk) 16:21, 3 October 2012 (UTC)

=Article Section Notes= Feel free to make quick notes about what should be in each section. We can also split up the sections among us. Mishumania (talk) 17:02, 25 September 2012 (UTC)

Overview
 * The first free standing wrestling facility in the country (cost? Since when?)
 * Get Picture of Friedman Wrestling Center
 * Introduce Rob Koll (David R. Dunlop ’59 Head Coach)
 * Notable NCAA, Ivy League, EIWA finishes under his direction (mention streaks)
 * notable National Champions (mention streaks)
 * Kyle Dake- First Cornell wrestler to win 3 NCAA Titles with one year left
 * Only wrestler to ever win 3 NCAA Titles in 3 different weight classes
 * 2012- First time to crown multiple NCAA Champions (3- Kyle Dake, Steve Bosak, Cam Simaz) in one year
 * notable All-Americans (mention streaks) Mishumania (talk) 13:27, 27 September 2012 (UTC)

I updated Rob Koll and Kyle Dake's name as both have existing Wikipedia pages on themselves. Mvr24 (talk) 18:54, 30 September 2012 (UTC)

History

This 'History' section is almost done! I have filled in the information up until about 2010. Mvr24 (talk) 20:50, 30 September 2012 (UTC)

Some of the other schools have info on Olympians in this section. Do we have any Olympians from Cornell? Mishumania (talk) 21:42, 25 September 2012 (UTC)

Cornell has 4 wrestling Olympicans- I think they should go into the 'Notable Alumni' section. Maggie Remsen (talk) 27 September 2012

If we separate out the champions and coaches, then what will be left in this section? Should we just do paragraph form instead like Oklahoma State? Mishumania (talk) 14:05, 27 September 2012 (UTC)

On our user page for this article I started the 'History' section because I wanted to get used to putting in references. I put in one line about E.J. O'Connell being the first coach in history and what he did with the team in two seasons. I then referenced it back to Cornell Wrestling History on the Cornell Big Red Athletics website. Just letting you guys know! Mvr24 (talk) 23:20, 27 September 2012 (UTC)

Championships

Should we combine this with the National Champions section and turn it into a table? Mishumania (talk) 21:28, 25 September 2012 (UTC)

There is already a small list on the Side Box on the existing page Cornell Big Red wrestling of Cornell's championships so I think we should leave that there. They have only won a handful of Ivy League championships and ECAC championships and have no National Championships so I think it should be separate from National Champions, which Cornell has many of. Maggie Remsen


 * Agreed, we can remove this section Mishumania (talk) 16:23, 3 October 2012 (UTC)

Coaches Maggie Remsen (talk) 27 September 2012 —Preceding undated comment added 17:51, 27 September 2012 (UTC)
 * 1907-1908: E.J. O'Connell
 * 1908-1947: Walter O'Connell
 * 1947-1974: Jimmy Miller
 * 1974-1988: J. Andrew Noel
 * 1988-1993: Jack Spates
 * 1993-Present: Rob Koll

Write a short blurb about each coach. What is most notable about each, etc. Mishumania (talk) 14:05, 27 September 2012 (UTC)

National Champions

Should we combine this with the Championships section and turn it into a table? Mishumania (talk) 21:29, 25 September 2012 (UTC)

I was going to write in all of Cornell's national champions, but they are the main content of the existing Cornell Big Red wrestling page. I think that because there are so many of them it is a notable section and should stay as it is instead of a table. What do you think? Mvr24 (talk) 22:58, 27 September 2012 (UTC)

Notable Alumni

Cornell has 4 Olympians from three separate graduation classes. They have one gold medalist and all of these wrestlers competed for the United States. I almost think we could have a table for these names that includes three columns: Date, Name, Country Maggie Remsen (talk)


 * Charles Ackerly won gold in olympics 1920 Mishumania (talk) 18:12, 29 September 2012 (UTC)

Other than All-Americans and academic winners, Cornell doesn't have any wrestling alumni (to note) that are notable in any other realm. Maybe we could put this Notable Alumni Olympians into a box? Maggie Remsen (User talk:Mvr24|talk]])) —Preceding undated comment added 18:08, 27 September 2012 (UTC)

Arno Niemand? Steve Friedman (Goldman Sachs, Friedman Center) Mishumania (talk) 19:28, 29 September 2012 (UTC)

External Links

This section should include Cornell wrestling's Facebook page, Twitter page, maybe Redman's Facebook/Twitter accounts and what other links? I don't think it could hurt to put CornellBigRed.com in there (our athletics website). We should look at other External Links article sections of other articles for reference. Mvr24 (talk) 18:54, 30 September 2012 (UTC)

References These will be added automatically as we write the article Mishumania (talk) 21:49, 25 September 2012 (UTC) Cornellbigred.com
 * USA Today
 * Wall Street Journal
 * New York Times
 * Stats at Cornellbigred.com
 * Cornell Daily Sun
 * Youtube

=Proposal= Below is the proposal we submitted for the article.

Topic
Cornell Big Red Wrestling already has a Wikipedia page. We wish to expand the article to include more information such as the team's history, coaches, notable alumni, etc. This topic is interesting and should be a Wikipedia article because it represents one of NCAA division I's top teams with multiple national champions. Cornell wrestling is also one of the University's most successful sports on the national stage in a highly competitive intercollegiate sport, which is even more impressive because of its Ivy League status, which does not allow sports scholarships.


 * This is a great topic. Remember that anything you discuss about what needs to go into the article rather should be in the talk page, not in the article page itself. Also be sure to avoid funny pieces like "< />". LeshedInstructor (talk) 17:00, 21 September 2012 (UTC)

Article sections

 * Overview
 * History
 * Championships
 * Coaches
 * National Champions
 * Notable Alumni
 * External Links
 * References

Other article elements
The Cornell Big Red Wrestling site already contains a text box on the right side of the page with University, Conference, Location, Head Coach, Arena, Nickname, Colors, and Conference Tournament Championship dates (We would update some of the information in this box). We would also add a Table of Contents text box right below the introduction, as we are adding at least 3 sections to the current article, which only contains National Champions and short blurb at the beginning.


 * A table of contents would be automatically added once you have more than three section headings in the article. Also, make sure the side box follows conventional uses and formatting - look at other side boxes for sports teams and follow their structure. LeshedInstructor (talk) 17:00, 21 September 2012 (UTC)

Article within Wikipedia community
Cornell Big Red Wrestling already holds a spot in the Wikipedia community and its visited frequently. The goal of this assignment is to update this article and supplement it with more information, including a History section, which will take up the bulk of the article. Many groups are intrigued by Cornell's success in such a competitive sport that is not usual to the Ivy League (only 6/8 Ivy League's field varsity teams). As of right now, this article is not part of a WikiProject. There are three articles linked to it (3 National Champions) as well as a link to Cornell University's page and the different conferences' pages. We would be adding many more links such as coaches and notable alumni as well as links within the History section. These links connect other articles, which furthers readership and therefore the 'group' aspect of Wikipedia.


 * Looking at the Talk page of Cornell Big Red wrestling this article seems to be under a number of WikiProjects. Make sure you announce your plans for improving the article on the appropriate WikiProject pages.
 * In addition, how will this page be situated with respect to articles about Wrestling or Collegiate wrestling? LeshedInstructor (talk) 17:00, 21 September 2012 (UTC)

We made sure to insert many links into our article so that it can be connected to many articles mainly to do with wrestling. We referenced the Eastern Intercollegiate Wrestling Association a lot, which is connected to the college wrestling world in the east. Mvr24 (talk) 13:08, 4 October 2012 (UTC)

Division of Labor
Steve will do the major research for the 'History' section of this article. He will talk to coaches and athletic directors in the Athletics department as well as make a list of references to study        for Michelle and Maggie to supplement his research.
 * Research and information: Steve Bosak

Michelle will be in charge of the specifics in terms of how to edit our article. She will do research as well but will be the main resource to put the team's research into the final version of our edited article.
 * Wikipedia page coordinator: Michelle Wilson

Maggie will organize group meetings, do research, and share information regarding our topic. She will also help Michelle with details on Wikipedia and help regulate the talk page. She will observe feedback from the classmates and take it into account accordingly.
 * Delegator and Modifier: Maggie Remsen


 * Please be more specific: what will each member do? LeshedInstructor (talk) 17:00, 21 September 2012 (UTC)

=Instructor's Feedback= You have chosen a very good topic to cover and a challenge in terms of updating the existing Wikipedia page on the topic. The current page on Cornell Big Red Wrestling is not a stub; it's not much of anything - and your job is to turn it into a more useful page to those who come to learn about this topic. My comments appear in the specific sections above. In addition, make sure to put the template "Educational Assignment" in the talk page of the real Wikipedia page. Good luck! LeshedInstructor (talk) 17:00, 21 September 2012 (UTC)


 * Thanks Professor Leshed- We have made sure to put on the WikiProjects and talk page of our topic's actual article that we are planning on editing and adding to the current article and that this is for educational purposes. I have also updated the Division of Labor so that it is more specific. Thank you for the feedback and see you in class! MaggieRemsen —Preceding undated comment added 16:57, 25 September 2012 (UTC)

=Observer Feedback= Observers please leave your feedback in this section. Thanks! Mishumania (talk) 17:11, 25 September 2012 (UTC)

Hey guys! Nice work so far! I noticed you were looking to maybe add information about Cornell olympians in wrestling. Here's a link that provides a list of all the Olympic athletes from Cornell, at least until 1996. Hope this helps!

http://www.news.cornell.edu/campus/Cornell_Olympians.html

Stephanie3460 (talk) 18:51, 27 September 2012 (UTC)

Great job guys! I would suggest adding an External Links section so that you can link to the actual Cornell Wrestling page and some other social media pages so that users can become more engaged (i.e. the facebook, youtube, and twitter pages) - all of those are on the website, which I'm sure you have used quite a bit! Cu mn354 (talk) 00:04, 28 September 2012 (UTC)

The information in the box up top looks great. I would maybe include a section about the friedman center and/or past coaches? Jdk243 (talk) 19:23, 27 September 2012 (UTC)


 * Thank you! We are definitely planning on having a full section on coaches and will look into information on the Friedman center for the side box. Mvr24 (talk) 22:47, 27 September 2012 (UTC)

Thoughts: 1) make sure to preserve the categories if you'll be copy and pasting your draft into the current one, 2) empty sections like external links should be removed 3) I still see a large number of unreferenced paragraphs / sentences, which will prevent you from being able to WP:DYK your article or achieve a B+ quality level in article assessment 4) the infobox mentions the word conference which is not used in the article; please explain the usage in text and if needed, update the infobox (it currently suggests that the "Conference Tournament Championships" - whatever it is - ended in 2010, which may be simply the case of the infobox being out of date), 5) consider acquiring and adding some photos to the article, the subject seems easy to photograph, and you could also try to contact the subject and ask for release of media under a free license; 6) Manual of Style issues: I see unnecessary bolding in notable alumni section; headings should not have capitalized regular words beyond the first, just like sentences; Team Marketing and Fundraising section has no llinks (and also may suffer from being too promotional and non-neutral, consider the usage of words like notable and revise when necessary, see WP:WEASEL and WP:NOTPROMOTION). --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here 18:02, 2 October 2012 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the very valuable feedback; we will address the issues you raised. I have fixed the issue about the section titles and have added some links to the External Links section. Mishumania (talk) 16:37, 3 October 2012 (UTC)

Nice job so far! I made a few grammatical changes that stuck out to me in your article. The only part of the article that I am concerned with is the introduction. The wording of the introduction makes it seem as though the article is about the coach, Koll, rather than the wrestling team itself. In the introduction are also accomplishments from recent years, which I think you should make a section of its own. If there are any details related to Koll directly, they should be moved from the introduction to the subsection of Coaches dedicated to Koll. Otherwise, great work! You have made a great contribution to Wikipedia with this article! Stephanie3460 (talk) 18:34, 3 October 2012 (UTC)

Thanks Stephanie ^^. I took out a small paragraph at the beginning on Koll. A lot of that information on him is used later in the article so it was good to take your advice and make the introduction mainly about Cornell wrestling and its achievements as a program. Mvr24 (talk) 13:07, 4 October 2012 (UTC)