User talk:Mwfinkbeiner

Play Time
I have reverted your edits to this article, for several reasons:


 * As they are about yourself, they run afoul of Wikipedia's rules about conflict of interest. Please see WP:COI


 * Neither your name nor the role you claim to have plaid is listed on the cast lists for Play Time at various websites, such as IMDB, TCM and Allmovie. You would need some kind of proof, other than your own say-so, that you played the part and the part existed in the movie.  Please see WP:V for rules about verifiability.


 * Even if you had a citation, it's unlikely that the part you claim to have played would be significant enough to list in the film's cast list, which is not meant to be exhaustive. Please see WP:Notability.

Please do not re-add this information. Thanks. Ed Fitzgerald t / c

02:43, 5 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Ed- Thank you for your guidance regarding WP. I am a Wiki-Newbie and it shows.  Nevertheless, please consider the following rebuttal:


 * General background: my website, earthimage.net, has contained mention of this for 5 years.  I was hired for the role by Tati's production assistant, Marie-France Siegler, who is named on the credits page of Play Time, now viewable on YouTube.  When I last communicated with her, five years ago, she was a known expert and lecturer on Tati.  She has recently posted a website of her own on the subject, mariefrancesiegler.com, with valuable new information from her 14 years with Tati, including a picture of her dog, Mr. Hulot.


 * So in order of your points above:


 * WP:COI Nothing in the guidelines prevents or even discourages first-party participants from adding information to articles. Although I reference Play Time in my own site, I have no commercial or personal interest in the subject.


 * WP:V I can provide photos of Tati helping me with the role, which took a week to film, he was such a movement perfectionist. Further, the line introducing the Cast states: "When possible, Tati cast nonprofessionals. He wanted people whose inner essence matched their characters and who could move in the way he wanted."


 * WP:Notability Perhaps these comments should become a blog entry on my own site, since I was actually consulting the Wiki article in preparation for such a discussion. The real Notability of the film in my mind, after 43 years of reflecting about Tati's purpose and dedication to the film, which bankrupted him, is that he was protesting globalization - and was the first to do so.  My small role was carefully arranged by Tati.  He dispached Marie-France to American Express to find an American Bee-Bopper.  At the time I was a 17-year old on my way to a freshman year at Yale, but with the added jacket and boom-box and many days of coaching, Tati put me in Barbara's way on the sidewalk, rudely blocking her, as a symbolic gesture of what Americanism had done to the culture of France.  This was in parallel with so many of the visual and sound-track elements of the film.  This was very notable in Tati's mind, and is part of the genius of the film.


 * France is now in the lead of protest against globalization and the role of the US in it. Jose Bove has taken the fight to the barricades, to McDonald's (by burning and trashing their French stores), and to jail, but it was Tati, who conditioned the French and the world to the cultural degradation and dangers of the process.  Please look at http://mariefrancesiegler.com/playtime.html


 * Note the building sketches in the third flash photo.


 * It would be helpful to have Marie-France's view of the above, and I will communicate this to her, and share her comments. I believe the subject of Tati and the anti-globalization movement is worthy of much fuller treatment.


 * In summary, I have no personal interest or conflict of interest in the matter. However, the role that I played for Tati was directly part of the film's Notability, when seen in light of the above.


 * Please provide some editorial guidance as to how this matter or viewpoint may be included. If your judgement is, "go blog it yourself", then so be it.  However, Wikipedia's noble goal and notable accomplishment is enhanced by the involvement of people who were involved in the events being described, but in an editorially neutral way.


 * Sorry, this is not a question of whether I believe you are in the film or not -- were you to present the material you mention to me, personally, it would probably be enough to convince me. However, Wikipedia requires that disputed information be verifiable by reliable sources, and nothing you mention reaches that level.  In addition, there is still the question of the importance of the role.  Since it wasn't listed in the film credits (I assume that's the case, or IMDB would list it), that, too, would require something to establish it. I think your personal knowledge of the film can best be used to enhance the article in other ways.  Why not go through it, correct any misapprehensions you find, or add significant production details you are aware of that have been left out.  Be careful to state them with a neutral point of view, and be prepared for the possibility that other editors may challenge them -- that's part of the Wikipedia process.  (In general, Wikipedia prefers secondary and even tertiary sources to primary ones.  I agree that's a little crazy at times, but that's the way it is.) Incidentally, if the photo you mention is your property, and not copyrighted in any way (or the ownership can not be claimed by the photographer), you could consider uploading it to WikiCommons.  If it's illustrative in some way of "backstage" during production of the film, and not just a "wave to the camera" personal shot, perhaps it could be used in the article. Good luck, and please don't hesitate to contact me on my talk page if you need any assistance. Ed Fitzgerald t / c 05:35, 7 February 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for your helpful introduction to the process. I will review the film in the 2006 Criterion DVD before further comment. I have written up my recollections of Tativille 1965, which surely are not neutral as to viewpoint. Here is a video clip with commentary: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E64l3MxIZqs