User talk:NYC source

Gershon Baskin
Please read WP:ARBPIA3. Editors like you with fewer than 500 edits are not permitted to edit articles related to the Arab-Israeli conflict, such as Gershon Baskin.

Also, please do not edit war. Thank you. — MShabazz Talk/Stalk 13:12, 20 July 2016 (UTC)

Thank you for the references provided. I understand that if this rule is genuine the purpose is to prevent various types of inaccurate and unsubstantiated statements in sensitive articles. However, I merely added statement that are made by Gershon Baskin on his own personal webpage listing the university that granted his PhD as Greenwich University (these were linked in the references that I added) and I provided information from Wikipedia's article on Greenwich University with some of the relevant sources.

Mr. Baskin has apparently deleted his education page. Here is a screen shot taken on January 14, 2016.



You have not disputed the apparent fact that Mr. Baskin says that he graduated from this university which, as the Australian government and newspaper sources cited in the Wikipedia article on Greenwich University of Norfolk Island, was never accredited and was shut down in Australia.

Here is what that article states:Accreditation status[edit] "According to the then Australian Federal Government Department of Education, Science and Training, "Between 30 June 1998 and 2 December 2002, Greenwich University (Norfolk Island) degrees were lawfully awarded under legislation approved by the Norfolk Island Government, using its powers of self-government. While the Commonwealth Minister for Territories assented to legislation, this does not mean that Greenwich University awards were ever recognized by the Federal Government of Australia."[3] In January 1999, the university requested accreditation under the Australian Qualifications Framework. In response, the then Australian government set up a review committee to investigate the suitability of Greenwich University for accreditation. The committee returned recommendations that Greenwich University:

"not be listed on the registers of the Australian Qualifications Framework because the standard of its courses, quality assurance mechanisms, and (sic) its academic leadership fail to meet the standards expected of Australian universities."[4]

On 2 December 2002, the Federal Government enacted legislation to regulate the use of the title university and the delivery of higher education in Australia's external Territories. This legislation overrode the operation of the Greenwich University Act 1998 (Norfolk Island). From this date, the Act is of no effect." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenwich_University_(Norfolk_Island)

As you have indicated no dispute with the facts, but only my status to comment and edit, perhaps it would be helpful for you, in yur own name, to add the well-substantiated and referenced material that I added along with such additional references from the Wikipedia article sources that you feel would assist the reader to become well-informed on the subject.

I look forward to you reply.

NYC source (talk) 20:48, 20 July 2016 (UTC)NYC source


 * As a long-time Wikipedia editor, let me explain to you that the solution to a perceived problem with an article is rarely to revert it to a six-month-old version, as you did earlier, thereby undoing the constructive work of six or seven other editors.


 * Where does Baskin's Wikipedia article say anything about Greenwich University? What do reliable sources say about Baskin and Greenwich University? That's the basis on which we add information to Wikipedia articles, not because of an anonymous editor's vendetta against Baskin or based on somebody's original research.


 * So please help build Baskin's biography with information about him—positive or negative—that has been published in reliable, third-party sources with a reputation for fact-checking and accuracy or go away. — Malik Shabazz Talk/Stalk 02:32, 21 July 2016 (UTC)

Mr. Shabazz, while Gershon Baskin is certainly involved in matters related to the Arab-Israeli conflict, his academic credentials are not an important part of that conflict, or, in fact, any part of it. An explanation should be forthcoming as to why providing references on Baskin's academic credentials should be be regarded as a matter where "WP:ARBPIA3. Editors like you with fewer than 500 edits are not permitted to edit articles related to the Arab-Israeli conflict, such as Gershon Baskin" can be invoked. As far as I can tell, I provided references, links and also submitted posted documents showing that Baskin claims to have a PhD from Greenwich University, a never-accredited institution that was closed down by specific legislation in Australia.

You, or someone else, removed my statements, references, links and supporting submitted documents on the calim that I lack the status to edit matters related to the Arab-Israeli conflict. I merely, restored thes statements, links and references. They were quickly removed again. I restored, Someone removed. Then I received your note of explanation.

As to your question of where the Wikipedia article on Baskin says anything about Greenwich University, the answer is that this information is to be found in the material that I added and that was removed (I hope not maliciously).

I have now collected multiple references to and made screen shots with dates displayed of websites of academic conferences featuring Baskin as an invited speaker, to websites where his books are sold and to his own personal website, where his academic credentials are stated by himself and others to include a PhD from Greenwich University.

I wish to post this information (screen shots), references and links (if they have not in the meantime been disabled) in the wikipedia article on Gershon Baskin, as they are of relevance, and are well documented.

Please advise me how best to provide this information to the interested public of wikipedia readers, in a manner that will satisfy all of the rules and guidelines for submission of information to wikipedia.

If you wish, please inform me how exactly you view Gershon Baskin's academic credentials as an issue in the Arab-Israeli conflict.

I wish to thank you in advance for your consideration, expertise and time.

NYC source


 * Hello NYC source. First, there is no need to copy and paste this discussion to my talk page. We can continue the discussion here, thereby keeping it all in one place.


 * Second, please read WP:ARBPIA3. It applies to "any page that could be reasonably construed as being related to the Arab-Israeli conflict". Any page. Surely you aren't arguing that a Wikipedia page about a man who is "the founder and co-chairman of IPCRI - Israel/Palestine Center for Research and Information", "dedicated to the resolution of the Israeli–Palestinian conflict on the basis of a 'two-states for two peoples' solution", and "a researcher of the Israeli–Palestinian conflict and peace process" is not "related to the Arab-Israeli conflict", are you? Then we have nothing to discuss—the rule is clear—you are not permitted to edit Gershon Baskin. Period.


 * Finally, you agree that Baskin's article doesn't say anything about Greenwich University. You would like us to add that he said he attended Greenwich University just so you can bad-mouth him or the university or both? Go away and start a blog. — Malik Shabazz Talk/Stalk 21:51, 22 August 2016 (UTC)

Quite an interesting comment!

Baskin has consistently, for two decades and for numerous purposes, stated and wrote that he received his PhD from Greenwich University. This is information, pure and simple. I added this information to the 'Gershon Baskin' with references and without comment, and you, or someone else, removed the information and references. Since the information is obviously correct and the references are valid, I would be interested in understanding the motivation for depriving the potential reader of referenced information. I understand that you support the removal of this information since you have not responded to my request to explain how to add it in conformity with all wikipedia rules and regulations. Am I correct in understanding that you removed the information yourself? In either case, please inform me how you believe the removal of reliable, referenced information enhances the quality of this article and how it serve the purposes of wikipedia.

It should be clear that no motivation other than the will to provide the potential reader with well-established information need be attributed to the adding of information showing that Baskin himself states with consistency that his PhD was granted by Greenwich University. The motivation to remove such information could, however, raise questions.

Assuming that your reference to the rule stated in WP:ARBPIA3 does determine who might add information to this article, please inform me how I might communicate with editors who are permitted to edit this article and who value truth sufficiently to decide on their own whether to add the simple factual statements and numerous references that I have prepared for the purpose of providing the potential reader with information. I again request that you assist me in fulfilling wikipedia's intent to provide the reader with information and references that he can check and evaluate on his own.

Again, I thank you in advance for your time and consideration.

NYC source


 * Please read Righting Great Wrongs. Thank you. — MShabazz Talk/Stalk 11:42, 23 August 2016 (UTC)

Mrr. Shabazz,

Thank you for the reference. The statement made there, "can only report that which is verifiable from reliable and secondary sources, giving appropriate weight to the balance of informed opinion: even if you're sure something is true, it must be verifiable before you can add it," is exactly in line with what I did before you or someone else erased my entries. I added a few simple sentnece reporting that Baskin himself claims that his PhD is from Greenwich University and I added the information that appears in the wikipedia article on that university, a never-accredited institution whose operations were closed down in Australia by specific legislation. I provided links to Baskin's webpage where he made this claim, and I submitted screenshots of those pages.

I simple stated that Baskin claims that this is the institution that granted his PhD. I added no comment of my own, and there was no need to do so. What can be more informative than what a person says of himself?

I have now informed you that I have ready links to many websites and screenshots of those websites that belong to Baskin, that sell his books and that report his participation in conferences and organizations where Baskin apparenty authoritized the statement that his PhD is from Greenwich University.

Since the reference that you sent me clearly supports the addition of this information, please inform me how best to add this information in accordance with all rules of wikipedia. If, as you claim, only certain editors are allowed to do so (a spurious claim in my opinion, as what Baskin says himself about the source of his PhD has something to do with Baskin himself and nothing to do with the Arab-Israeli conflict), please inform me how I may contact senior editors who are authorized to edit this article so that they might evaluate the information and references on their own.

I also request that you inform me that you will not remove the material when it is added back into the article. or inform me of the reason for not allowing this factual, very clearly and reliably documented information from being added.

I thank you again for your attention to this matter.

=Deletion of factual documented biographical material provided by the subject of the biography
======= NYC source (talk) 12:55, 29 August 2016 (UTC)